It’s hard to imagine something worse for a parent than having to cremate their own child. Today Sukhdeo Hardat of Queens has to do just that after his daughter’s policeman ex-fiancé shot her to death in the middle of the street with his service pistol.
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He refused to let go |
Harry Rupnarine joined the NYPD two years ago as a transit police officer. Soon thereafter, while in uniform, he met Guiatree Hardat and became her first serious boyfriend. She had just come to the USA from Guyana, and was studying at Queens College to become a math teacher. He was older, possessive and controlling:
The possessive cop wanted to keep so close an eye on his girlfriend that he often called her a dozen or more times a day. Rupnarine, 37, constantly nagged Guiatree Hardat, 22, to marry him. He was angry that she wanted to wait until she finished college. [Link]
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p>They broke up, but got back together again. Unfortunately, things hadn’t changed much:
Just a week ago, he flipped out when she asked him to come in the kitchen and talk to her while she did some household chores.”Your attention can’t be in two places at once!” he told her, according to Hardat’s relatives. “You must listen to me!”. [Link]
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p>They went out to dinner last Thursday, as Rupnarine tried to patch things back up, but it didn’t work. She called her father at 7:08 PM to ask for a ride, then called him back to say she would take the bus home. He worried:
But Hardat, 46, felt uneasy about his daughter and headed out to find her. Her cell phone kept going straight to voice mail, and when she finally picked up, he heard her final words. “Go away!” the father remembers her daughter yelling at Rupnarine. “I hate you! I hate you!”The call ended at that point, and by the time Hardat arrived at the scene, just past 7:45 p.m., Rupnarine was in handcuffs and Hardat’s daughter was dead on the ground in a pool of blood. [Link]
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p>Rupnarine claimed that he had accidentally shot Hardat while fighting crime:
Rupnarine … called 911 after killing his girlfriend, then tried to pretend he accidentally shot her while fending off robbers. “Two guys with a knife robbed me,” Rupnarine said to responding police officers, according to a statement of his read aloud at his arraignment. “I turned toward her and I shot her. I’m on the job. Please get the guys who robbed me.”
But Rupnarine’s account, authorities said, was contradicted by a number of witnesses, and he was arrested by Internal Affairs investigators within an hour and charged with second-degree murder. [Link]
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p>What makes this especially bitter for her relatives is that since Rupnarine’s parents had died, they had welcomed him into their family. Now her father feels betrayed:
“This guy, his parents passed on,” he said. “I offered, ‘Let us be a guide to your life.’ ” He added in disgust, “He ruined his own life. My daughter is gone, there is no turning back…” [Link]
Guiatree Hardat is to be cremated today.
Dear Sonya, sorry I was out all day yesterday so I could not respond to you.
In your post #33 I agree with everything you say about how our community needs to take the blame for the problems. Everthing from the aunties who think our culture is better, to the shame factor for the women in divorce, to the sex selection problems in our community. You are right that our leaders need to know a better job.
When I was talking about women rights groups, I was talking about the mainstream white groups who sometime afraid to speak out against some minority groups. Sonya I was not talking about South Asian groups like the one you with, who I think are doing a great job, despite little to no help from our religous leaders.
I have spoken out as much any male who leaves comments on this website about problems of sexism and violence against women in the punjabi community on other posts. Also I can easily say that I’m no fan of multicultrism and I think that the mainstream culture is better[West is Best].
Also HMF in post #36 you were right about what I meant to say. I think this may be the 1st and only time that I agree with you.
I never said I agreed with it. But thanks for playing, we have parting gifts for you in the lobby.
hema raises a good point:
Plus, a woman’s investment in a relationship makes it very difficult to leave and move on, when the violent behavior does manifest itself. A lot of domestic abuse begins in ways that don’t seem particularly abusive at the outset. For example, the husband asks the wife to quit her job and stay home to look after the kids. After a while, he says they can’t really afford to keep two cars, so she becomes completely dependent on him for mobility. Soon enough, he’s controlling all the finances, and she basically has no ability to lead an independent life. Things usually just descend into violence from there.
Never guaranteed that this will happen, but it seems like this scenario stems from real-life situations.
If I may add something–I know overseas-born guys who prefer girlfriends/wives, recently emigrated, who don’t speak fluent English. They don’t talk about it, no one else mentions it, but I see the pattern. When it’s three or four in a row like that amidst plenty of women who speak perfect English, I have to wonder. Language is the easiest non-financial way to control a relationship if one dates or marries someone from another country, and often the non-fluent speaker of English doesn’t make as much as the fluent speaker anyway.
Not to say that this will lead to abuse, but it’s a way of keeping the upper hand in a relationship.
HMF writes: Then those issues need to be dealt with before proceeding into further relationships.
Is that your rubber door out of the argument? Easy, huh?
Those issues need to be dealt with, good god. Well, duh. Of course they need to be dealt with. The DV survivor needs to be made aware of what’s going on and educated as to what her options are. First she has to realize that she needs help, and it might take two or more abusive relationships and a hell of a lot of haranguing from her friends and family for her to realize this. She needs to be assured and reassured that she’ll be protected. And then she can receive shelter and support in dealing with those issues. Get it? So, who’s going to help her deal with those issues? Probably not you. “need to be dealt with” is in the passive voice, so let’s try being pro-active. Apparently your recourse is to leave it her problem, because those initial signs of gradual loss of independence don’t hold much weight with you and it would take, oh, I don’t know, a couple of slaps and punches to indicate the partner was abusive. And she will have to think to herself, “These issues need to be dealt with before proceeding into future relationships”–right? On a post-it in her Day-Minder.
window you made a great point about men finding women who can’t speak english when they gave oversea looking for a wife. A couple of the punjabi women who were killed by there husbands in Surrey,BC[30 minutes from Vancouver] in the past year had little to no english. Also these women had little to no family in the west. One women had to sneak to her neighbor house just to call her family in India, cause her husband and in-laws would not let her do it. Also they would let her have no social life
140th time’s a charm. Again, a complete misconstruction of the response.
I was responding to a claim that women are drawn towards violent and controlling behavior as a result of growing up in such environments. I was saying before a women who’s grown up in such an environment rushes into a relationship, thereby continuing the vicious cycle, she or those around her should take as much precaution and care to see she doesn’t make poor choices.
I wasn’t saying a DV victim should write post it notes. I was saying the chain of violence begets violence should be cut, so as to prevent her from making poor choices, resulting in becoming a victim. My statement was one of prevention rather post-violence recuperation.
Clueless: “I think that the mainstream culture is better[West is Best].”
Are you serious? Why are you on a site called “Sepia Mutiny”? Of course, different cultural dynamics play into misogynist crimes wherever in the world they occur, and must must be examined. But how can you make sweeping comparisons between “cultures” (however you define the word)? Misogynist violence exists nearly everywhere; do you not think horrifying domestic violence does not occur among white mainstream Canadians/Americans?
Borris yes there is domestic violence in the mainstream community. But divorce is not the end of the world and the level of shame is no where near what it is in the desi community for leaving a unhappy marriage.
No, they’re white. They eat raspberry sherbet when they abuse.
hema, JOAT, et al., thanks so much for trying to shed some light on such a sticky topic. I’ve really appreciated all your posts.
Since I’m the person who wrote “lovers,” I wanted to clarify. I used this term so that it would be inclusive of long- and short-term relationships as well as queer and hetero relationships. I personally feel that “spouse/husband” is a particularly limited way to view DV that occurs between two people engaged in a “love” relationship. I did not mean it to refer strictly to short-term, premarital relationships. I believe this is a fairly common interpretation of the word, at least among women’s organizations in the Bay Area.
HMF, I’m not sure what to say at this point. I think there is a fundamental difference between how you view the issue of DV among “lovers” versus how hema, JOAT, Sonya, myself view the same issue. The fact that you equated someone asking someone to give up their economic freedom to buying a new sofa or sofa cushions shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the psychology and experience of DV to me. I don’t say this to put you on the defensive, but I seriously question your empathy with women who have experienced DV. As has been brought up several times, men who engage in domestic abuse are not simply “bad boy” archetypes. You’ve continued to limit your analysis to what you view as “traditional abusers.” I don’t think most women go out searching for an abusive relationship, but we often find ourselves there.
I don’t know what else to say. I just hope that, in light of the fact that several of the women on this forum are either DV survivors or work with DV survivors, you would take our anecdotes at face value and understand that this is not a simple right/wrong “personal responsibility” scenario or topic. I also hope you understand the emotional and political levity that your remarks hold. I’m going to try to stop continuing in this thread, because frankly, to have someone tell me that I in some way “deserved what I got” for so many years is not only disgusting but deeply hurtful.
And yet… all the anecdotes and further analysis to disprove my statements came strictly from this limited view… For example, posts 79 & 83.
Well, I don’t know what to say other than I’ve been continually misquoted and misinterpreted on this thread, and I’ve been doing triple duty answering to three/four trains of thinking. In case you didn’t notice, my last point of statements like “my mother was right, I should have never married you” was conveniently left out in the blockquote (post #84), I wasn’t equating “purchasing sofas” to “denial of independence”, I was stating, (unclearly I agree) as I clarified in post #96, that if abuse is going to be extended into non-physical, verbal and psychological abuse then it goes both ways, and can be equally hurtful
I also started with a context of free thinking decisions… and all ensuing analysis eerily reeked of a common south asian situation in which women are coaxed, cajoled and psycholigically manipulated to make relationship choices, and I clearly wasn’t including these cases.
No, but the converse makes intuitive sense. Bad boy types do garner attraction, and can become abusive. The two groups are not uncorrelated, as was purported. As I see it, the definition of badboy includes some level of abuse and indifference.. No one has yet provided me a working definition, (nor has denied that women indeed do not get attracted to these personalities)
well, I’m not commenting on any particular situation, if you took it personally, there’s really nothing I can do about that. But this same type of logic is applied to men with relative ease. If men make a choice with the best information they have, then the relationship goes sour… don’t we take some of the responsibility? Aren’t we held accountable?
In addition, in many, but not cases, all I concede, of DV, I’d question the use of the victim’s data and experiences exclusively, I’d bet in many cases the victim’s friends and family could see the abuse coming a mile away, well before it reaches the extreme of physical abuse. It could be confusion, denial, so many things could result in the woman being “blinded” by the fact she made the choice… as was stated in post #86.
“In addition, in many, but not cases, all I concede, of DV”
meant to read:
In addition, in many but not all cases, I concede…
And this is just an aside, not relating to abuse or anything, but from my (admittedly non-extensive) experience with women, it’s just a strange way I’ve observed them approaching relationships. The last person I dated, when we just started hanging out, etc.. her defenses had like 100 levels to them, that shit was tighter than Fort Knox and Dick Cheney’s underground bunker combined. After we were physically intimate the first time – it was like a complete reversal. I got unsolicited calls (in the sense, they weren’t ‘returned calls’) where the purpose was ‘just to hear my voice’ It was the most erratic human behavior I’ve ever observed.
Uh, HMF…so what you’re really saying is you’re that good, eh? Show off.
That’s just it. It was a shock to me as much anyone else. I didn’t intend nor expect it, I’ve prefaced my comments with a “non-extensive” qualifier.
I can see how it surprised you, but it’s not that weird, when you think about it. It’s a pattern one can find with many women, though not exactly a healthy pattern unless that’s what the guy wants and he willingly receives and reciprocates (in which case they should do whatever floats their boat).
She had defenses, most likely built up from previous hurts– She and you became intimate (breaking those defenses). She opened up emotionally and found you safe enough to solicit further.
The sex was a subconscious “test” of trust. You passed.
It’s not weird… it’s just a little clingy. I’m guessing that she’s the sensitive, needy type–perhaps as a result of an abusive childhood or hypercritical parents–and since then she’s been subject to a lot of misunderstanding and disappointment.
But it’s weird for someone who acted as she did to be that clingy… At least I thought so. I understand the need for the bitch shield, its a time mgmt and personal space issue. For what its worth, thanks for the analysis.
I didn’t hit a homerun, not even close. I’m not gonna get into it, so I’ll just leave it as that.
I didn’t hit a homerun, not even close. I’m not gonna get into it, so I’ll just leave it as that.
Hey, I’ll take your word for it. Didn’t mean to imply anything either way. The fact that you and she allowed yourselves to become intimate is what I’m talking about. The results… well, single, double, walk, hit by pitch… we don’t have to know.
Domestic violence should not be feared and judged??? What, it should be welcomed and praised instead?
In addition, the family and friends of a DV victim often encourage them to leave a.s.a.p. often offering shelter in the form of their own homes. What to speak of DV, if a marraige has gone sour to the point of irreconcilable differences, the family and friends of both will usually encourage a divorce. Life is short, why waste it in a bad relationship?
Why do they use the white community as an example and not the black? Is it because Indians socialize more with whites than blacks or because it’s perceived that there is little divorce in the black community because where there is no marriage to begin with, there is not divorce to follow?
PG, that last comment was mine. Since I live in Canada where there is a small black population, so whites are used as an example. But don’t worry the punjabi’s aunties and uncles do alot of black bashing, along with east asian, native people and even desi of other backgrounds.
I recently saw that movie PROVOKED starring Aishwarya as Kiranjeet Ahluwalia. The true story of an abused Punjabi village girl who eventually set her husband on fire and killed him in England.
I feel very strongly that the British and American governments should do a hardcore campaign against their male citizens/residents marrying partners who cannot speak english from other countries. Yes that would include middle-aged and old white men who go to the Phillipines to marry village girls and bring them back here coz they are more “feminine” than American women, I guess. What are the DV stats on that group?
I think the difference in the two types of misogyny, or rather, the difference in the cultures where misogyny plays out, is that women growing up in “mainstream” U.S. culture are far more vocal about their lives and far more likely to speak out against their abuse and stand up for themselves. For those that aren’t/don’t, their family members, friends and community are far more likely to do that for them, rather than blame the abuse on the victim.
If you recall that John Mayer song (sappy, I know) “Daughters”… with the words, “fathers, be good to your daughters”–the first time I heard that, I was surprised, because in no song ever has anyone ever recommended that a male parent treat his female offspring well. Heck, in real-life conversations that sort of advice is hard to come by. What I come across tends to be psychopop about latent sexual urges and fathers’ unwillingness to understand female biology (get an Indian dad to talk about it? Goodness!)…
Fathers, you really have to be good to your daughters. I know all of you current and future dads know that. I wish my father had been better to his children–I’ve never known what a healthy relationship is like and I fear that I’ll never learn.
Why? What did he gain by stealing her life?
Guitree’s memorial video: http://www.youtube.com/v/Lql64CYK6bE
Hello, I am a volunteer with Sakhi for South Asian Women [www.sakhi.org], a community based non-profit dedicated to ending Domestic Violence against women of South Asian descent. I am wondering if anyone here at Sepia Mutiny has contact information for Ms. Hardat’s family? We would love to to work with them to make sure Ms. Hardat gets justice and to raise awareness of this issue in their community. If you can help us, my email is shivanaj@aol.com.
These families were both from GUYANA which is in South America. The culture in many ways is very different to that of South Asian countries. I think it’s a simple case of abuse that was not nipped in the bud by her parents and eventually resulted in her death. It actually happens more often than we realise in our very communities!
IN RESPONSE TO: no sense of humor on May 16, 2007 02:13 PM · Direct link A 22-year-old should not be going out with a 37-year-old. He was closer to her father’s age. He was ready to settle down, she was ready to spread her wings. i believe this has little to do with being at different places in life. i suspect that sweet guiatree, like the majority of women in abusive relationships, was all too familiar with controlling behavior from the males around her.
he had lied about his age and indeed he did look the age he claimed to be. we were all unaware that he was close to his 40’s, trust me. he fooled everyone.
In RESPONSE TO: Shivana on June 12, 2007 04:41 PM · Direct link Hello, I am a volunteer with Sakhi for South Asian Women [www.sakhi.org], a community based non-profit dedicated to ending Domestic Violence against women of South Asian descent. I am wondering if anyone here at Sepia Mutiny has contact information for Ms. Hardat’s family? We would love to to work with them to make sure Ms. Hardat gets justice and to raise awareness of this issue in their community. If you can help us, my email is shivanaj@aol.com.
you can contact the Hardat family through guiatree@hotmail.com
These families were both from GUYANA which is in South America. The culture in many ways is very different to that of South Asian countries. I think it’s a simple case of abuse that was not nipped in the bud by her parents and eventually resulted in her death. It actually happens more often than we realise in our very communities!
Please tell me how the Indo-Caribbean (Guyanese) culture is VERY different from that of the cultures of South Asian countries. Just for starters I’d like to say that 3rd generation Indo-Caribbeans are still known to speak Hindi. How many 3rd generation South Asians born outside of their native country still speak Hindi or other native languages? Please enlighten me. Are the foods VERY differnt in Guyana amongst the Indians there versus the Indians in countries in South Asia? Are religious ceremonies/practices VERY different amongst Guyanese Indians versus other Indians in South Asian countries? Your remark reminds me of my recent meeting with a prominent member of the Pakistani government. He inquired as to where I was from? When I replied that I was originally from Guyana but have been living in the United States since I was an infant, he replied oh, you must have some Indian in you because of your straight hair (mind you I’m 100% Indian). As to not embarass him I acted ignorant as said, I don’t understand. He replies, “well Guyana is where Blacks and Indians live so aren’t Guyanese people all mixed people”. I kept it professional and changed the subject as to not offend our guest and expose his ignorance. Guyana has a large Indian and African population, followed by a smaller European, Chinese and Native people. These various “races” have managed to retain their own “racial”,cultural,religious,etc. identity while co-existing. The one similarity they all share is they speak the same form of English, otherwise their foods, customs and religions have remained intact. There appears to be some ignorance on the part of native born indians and 2nd generation Indians and other South Asians as to how well the Indo-Guyanese community has managed to retain its culture and identity for nearly 300 years after leaving the homeland. I’ve commonly heard “he/she is not really Indian, because they were not born in India but in Guyana/Trinidad/Jamaica/et.” But yet I don’t hear that said about Indians born in Europe or America, why is that so?
OH MY GOD!! =[ SHE WAS MY CUSIN I CANT BELEIVE IT ITS NOW 4 MOTHS SINCE THIS HAS HAPPEN AND I STILL CANT GET OVER IT =[ I LOVE HER SO0O0O MUCH =[
I’m friends with her younger sister. Today I have to present a speech about her and include this, and it breaks my heart to read about it.
May your soul rest in peace… Just know Vishal still loves you gui…ur always in his heart….and always will be …and he will never forget you… he told me this with tears in his eyes…the funny thing is that i didn’t know and when he told me all i could remember is when i first met you n u served me dhal n rice that was funny… R.I.P Love Carlos