Quick– read the following paragraph and tell me what you think:
The women legally arrived…in 2002; (their employers) then confiscated their passports and refused to let them leave their home, authorities said.
Domestic slavery? Nightmarish abuse of Sri Lankan maids, at the hands of Arab employers? That’s what I thought. I was only half right (Thanks, KXB).
Two Indonesian women were subjected to beatings and other abuse and forced by a couple to work in their home in a swank Long Island neighborhood without pay for several years, federal prosecutors said Tuesday.
Authorities said they uncovered the abuse after one of the women was found by police wandering outside a doughnut shop on Sunday morning, wearing only pants and a towel…[IHT]
Apparently, employees at the store thought the woman was homeless, until she started slapping herself and trying to utter the word “master”.
Varsha Mahender Sabhnani, 35, and her husband Mahender Murlidhar Sabhnani, 51, both from India, entered not guilty pleas at their arraignment in U.S. District Court and were ordered held pending a Thursday bail hearing. Their attorney did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment. [IHT]
The women were only allowed outside of the house if they were taking out the garbage; when anyone visited, they were stashed in a 3×3′ closet. That’s pleasant compared to this:
The women were subjected to beatings, scalding water thrown on them, and forced to climb up and down stairs as punishment for misdeeds, prosecutors said. In one case, they said, one of the women was forced to eat 25 hot chili peppers at one time.
One of the women also told authorities she was cut behind her ears with a small pocket knife and both were forced to sleep on mats in the kitchen. They were fed so little, they claimed, that they were forced to steal food and hide it from their “captors.”[IHT]
It’s just so depressing. What quirk of destiny relegates one South Asian woman to endure the beatings of her Arab mistress while halfway around the world, her desi– albeit privileged– counterpart metes out similar viciousness to another brown human being? Sri Lankan and Fillipino maids get abused in the middle east, the Indonesian survivors from this cringe-inducing story were enslaved by people our parents might associate with, right here in the U.S and desperate, option-less women everywhere are exploited by those who should know better but don’t care. For shame.
The 3 Laws of Robotics are supposed to prevent that from happening. If they fail, then it is Judgement Day… 😉
True, also some newspapers are reporting that Mrs. Sabhani was the perpetrator of the violence, I’m sure Mr. Sabhani was no angel considering that he must have witnessed the entire ordeal and done nothing. As usual, the Daily Post takes it to the limit, splashing a picture of Mrs. Sabhani on the cover with the headline “CRUELLA.” (check it out: http://www.gothamist.com/2007/05/16/couple_charged.php) I guess no one could think of an evil man character to connect the man to.
Wow! I just got coffee from the Dunkin Donuts mentioned in that article.
(But what if the robots rebel against being the abused “servant caste”? ;-))
cough
correction: the new york post.
witnessing it and doing nothing to stop it makes him a willing accomplice. besides, he had two powerless, beaten, abused women at his disposal, twenty-four-seven. all kinds of opportunities for him to take advantage of his position of power.
I don’t really see it as an issue of ‘being from south Asia’ and ‘needing help with domestic chores’ as mutually exclusive. I find the time that is freed up with getting time consuming things done like cleaning the house and getting the laundry done; invaluable. As do so many others I know. I can do it myself, hell I have been doing it myself but now that I can afford it I don’t want to. That means gaining a Saturday to do what I want not sit for 3 hours in a laundry room. It has nothing to do with “needing help: and everything to do with “needing time to do other things”.
With all due respect more power to you that you have 2 kids and have a fulltime job and get everything done. Not everyone is that good at it. I’ve seen girlfriends who have wonderfully raised children, who are excellent cooks but their houses look like a disaster zone and girlfriends who have well taken care of children and spotless houses but they devote all their time to tending to family events with the free time. To each their own. I wouldn’t judge someone so quickly and make it a South Asian thing. Don’t knock it till you try it 🙂
……(But what if the robots rebel against being the abused “servant caste”? ;-))
The 3 Laws of Robotics are supposed to prevent that from happening. If they fail, then it is Judgement Day… 😉
Vikram: I thought of exactly the same thing, so I fear that makes me a big nerd. It’s not high art, but the movie version of “I, Robot” with Will Smith actually had very entertaining moments.
Two things I find most interesting in this thread:
The comment that a lot of these cases of domestic slavery cases seem to involve immigrants and/or expats who are simply recreating social relations that would be totally conventional in their nation of origin. Is there anyone else who thinks that if a statement like that were printed in the mainstream media, it could be considered borderline (or overtly) racist (i.e., “those people can’t help it, they were raised to think treating their maids like that…”)? We’re not just talking about making househelp sleep on mats and feeding them meager portions of rice and dal; as #21 mentioned, scalding with water isn’t exactly ‘conventional’ in any cultural context!
The idea that some people (S. Asian immigrants in particular) “don’t want to work” or do domestic chores themselves: I think there are a variety of attitudes about this that aren’t necessarily related to ‘laziness.’ I think we all know several middle-aged, middle-class white women (even single and childless, yaar) who have someone come in to clean, while others, more affluent may do it all themselves. I think my grandmother would be surprised or disapprove if she knew that I’m THRILLED to pay $2/shirt to have someone else launder and iron them (a reason today’s youth Can’t! Save! Any! Money!). Echoing Puliogre: It’s not worth my precious time to spend it on the frustrating task of ironing. However, I do all my own cleaning, etc. I think there are habits that may be somewhat culturally ingrained, and may be more prevalent among certain Asians, but certainly not limited to them. As we know, there are tasks/chores “one wouldn’t dream of doing oneself” when in certain countries. In the absence of abuse, having various types of househelp is obviously a major part of the informal economy in many developing countries (developed ones as well, but perhaps less so than in countries where work opportunities in the formal economy are much more limited).
While our outrage here is fully justified if all the facts are indeed as presented – I cannot help noticing that this story falls into a ‘genre’ of news stories with common elements: overzealous and publicity-seeking prosecutors, a sensationalist media outlet, a prima-facie embroidered story designed both to assist sensationalization and to tug at the jury’s heart strings (Running up-and-down stairs and eating hot peppers as punishment? Sure.), and importantly, – an otherizable ethnic identity for the alleged perpetrators, for they could do anything. One can fairly ask whether there is any prosecutorial bias in such cases.
People have been asking how South Asians think they cannot do their own domestic chores. The tradition of full-time domestic help for middle class households owes considerably to the tradition that British and other colonials in India established, employing such help. Even low level bureaucrats used to have several ‘servants’. Even today, Western (including US) diplomats and other expatriates in India do employ such help, and often bring them over when they return stateside. US Navy officers employ Filipino ‘batmen’ when serving in the Far East, and regularly bring them over when they return. I really don’t think they pay them $65K/yr with gym, health and spa benefits, so they can then take home $700/week net. So, whether it is in India, or in the US, everybody who reaches a certain ‘station’ feels ‘entitled’ to cheap domestic help, and will pay as little as they can get away with. That bit of context is essential.
Somebody wisely observed earlier in the thread that everyone is working to make someone else wealthy; and that many people on H-1Bs also face similar situations, where they are beholden to employers, and unable to escape a patently exploitative situation, and are virtual slaves. That bit of context is also useful.
Excellent point.
yes, i hope i didn’t come off as apologizing for the husband, i think he’s as much to blame as the wife and think it’s sad that the media attention seems to be focused squarely on the “Cruella” aspect of the case.
“And can we ease up on the ‘she looks evil’ bit. Evil doesn’t sport any specific looks.”
JOAT I have to disagree there are most definitely evil looking people out there….hard to know if such folks are ACTUALLY evil..but I think dabbling in dark things over a lifetime takes its toll and can be seen on the face……just like a lifetime of smoking or drinking..(uh-oh!)
Since, apparently, I wasn’t first with the Cruella De Vil comparison (damn you, gm #13!), I call dibs on the Desi John Bolton. And the phrase The Suburbanality of Evil.
al chutiya, not sure what you meant by “the courts should take that into account.” regardless of whether it’s culturally accepted in one place and less in another (if the alleged abuse did occur), it’s atrocious and should be punished as would any other blatant violation of human rights. this is not the same as “public kissing is acceptable in the u.s. and so a kisser should not be punished in india.” if these women were subjected to the horrific abuses alleged by the media, then this couple as any other, regardless of geographic location, ought to be punished to fullest extent of the law.
The prosecutors and the judges do and should take into account ‘cultural differences’. If a Somali refugee fresh off the plane violently disciplines her child, she should not be given the same sentence that you would give to a mother who was born and raised in America. It would be unfair to do so because it would not take into account the fact that the Somali refugee was unaware of western child abuse laws, such practice is common in Somalia etc. These are all mitigating factors which should be taken into account during the sentencing stage.
Personally, I think these employers are being framed. To set the record straight, these folks are Indian. From the north part in an area that once existed toward the north of Punjab called Sind. Which is now part of current day Pakistan. Mind you, they are not Pakistani, they are Indian hindus.
I know because I come from the same sect. Now there are alot of folks from this region whom are successful whom have migrated to the US, Europe, and othe parts of Asia – whom have domestic workers. They come to work on contract, and a majority of them are treated humanely well. (with proper accomodations, plenty of nourishment, and regular time off.)
I know a few people whom have Indonesian domestic helpers, and they work for a period and are sent back to indonesia when their contract is up. They are paid significantly more than what they would earn in their native country, and their earnings are sent back to Indonesia to take care of their families. A majority of these domestic helpers are exposed to the wonders of the world by serving these people of affluence – experiences that they would have never have had being back in Indonesia. Case in point, I remember a family that took their helper to Las Vegas, and while there was treated her just like one of the family, while experiencing the best resturants, accomodations, etc. There were tears in the eyes of the Indonesian helper because she always dreamed of seeing Las Vegas, and she got her chance, and that too finally being treately with the same amenities as that of her employers. Do note, many of these domestic helpers are treated well, and respectfully. Many of which are considered part of the family, a kin to a live in nanny. They travel with the family and go everywhere.
This particular story is an isolated case, where I think somehow these Indonesian ladies may have concocted a plan to frame their employers. Im not saying that this is 100% the case, but you have to look at both sides before you make a judgement.
These people are Naturalized Citizens, who are biz people, who do well to live in Muttontown, all this leads me to a very strong conclusion that they aren’t fresh off the boat. I don’t think they should be judged by anything other than the mores and laws of the land they have been living in.
“A majority of these domestic helpers are exposed to the wonders of the world”
“This particular story is an isolated case”
It would be unfair to do so because it would not take into account the fact that the Somali refugee was unaware of western child abuse laws
But ignorance of the law is no excuse/defense. I don’t think it’s unfair at all. The local Somali community where I live routinely practises female castration. Should this be condoned (or left unprosecuted) because of cultural differences?
OMG, yes, he IS the desi John Bolton! Good call!
As for how representative this case might be, I think in their debate on Slate on the Nanny Wars, Ehrenreich, Flanagan and Mosle mentioned that about 80% of nannies in the US are estimated to be illegal and/or not paid social security etc according to the law. That sounds awfully high to me but who knows. Anyway, I’m sure there are lots of people who are perfectly good employers (just as there are back in desh) but the potential for abuse is pretty high.
Thanks JOAT, chachaji, and others who pointed out that it’s not just South Asians and that people are entitled to a little help if you can afford it. It’s just that I have observed this behavior in South Asians.
For others who responded that they know people who have help come on “contract” from Indonesia, or bring back “batmen” from the Philipines, do you know what kind of visa these domestic workers come on? Just curious, because I don’t know that there is a way to do this legally.
These people are Naturalized Citizens, who are biz people, who do well to live in Muttontown, all this leads me to a very strong conclusion that they aren’t fresh off the boat. I don’t think they should be judged by anything other than the mores and laws of the land they have been living in.
In this case, I agree with you.
But ignorance of the law is no excuse/defense. I don’t think it’s unfair at all. The local Somali community where I live routinely practises female castration. Should this be condoned (or left unprosecuted) because of cultural differences?
If you believe that the sole purpose of punishment is to satiate your retributist rage, then taking cultural differences into account will probably not make sense to you.
If you believe that the sole purpose of punishment is to satiate your retributist rage, then taking cultural differences into account will probably not make sense to you.
This isn’t a discussion about theories of punishment, so I’ll leave that alone, especially since you have no iddea what I believe, one way or the other.
I’m just saying that I don’t see where cultural differences are relevant in cases like this. It is the responsibility of the government (through the judicial system) to protect those who cannot protect themselves. And if that means a few individuals from cultures that condone female castration, domestic violence, etc. end up being incarcerated, it’s a small price to pay. At least locally, incarceration also appears to have had some educational effect on the Somali community.
You are right. In India such behavior would not seem as outrageous as it seems to be (and in fact is) in the US. The courts should take that into account during sentencing.
Excuse me, if some society is not taking care of the destitute there; then why should west consider it. I think these people made into example so other naives who thinks they are still in South Asia or Middle East will learn. What next bounded labor since its OK to keep one back home.
then taking cultural differences into account will probably not make sense to you.
Abuse has no culture; we should popularize this issue more so people back home can learn to treat other humans with dignity, which is every human’s right not a privilege.
Hema,
I can hear you.
My mind baffles at ignorants- who knows every little detail of THEIR rights in the west but knows NOTHING about the others. So much convenient for them.
For Al_Chutiya_for_debauchery,
I would like to add. Do you know Honor killing is Ok in some cultures too and even it’s respected there.
humiliation, abuse, devaluing of human life are punishable by law everywhere, regardless of whether certain degrees are deemed acceptable in one place and not another. i’m not a lawyer, nor am i familiar with the legalities surrounding the prosecution of a case such as this. i do know that though my parents grew up in india where beating your kids is the norm, when they came here, right away they knew enough not to beat us in public even if they weren’t familiar with the laws. when you’re taking a person’s humanity away, you know you’re doing it. no matter where you are or who says it’s okay.
re: Vik @ #65. please.
Actually, what I said was people ‘feel’ entitled to it, and will pay as little as they can get away with. Sometimes that’s nothing.
And as far as paying as little as they can get away with, virtually all employers are converging to this standard; the old days of the ‘efficiency wage‘ where people were paid more than the ‘market-clearing’ wage, so that they would work ‘hard and smart’ and ‘reduce labor turnover’ are rapidly becoming history, in a ‘globalizing’ world.
See their daughter’s page on Facebook Pooja Sabhnani. Sveral pics of her with her parents. I would ask her why she did nothing to help these poor maids. She had to have known.
Their daughter is 22 so the mom is unlikely to be 35 unless she is her step-mom.
Why did you jump to the conclusion that the abuse was at the hands of Arabs? What do Arabs have anything to do with anything in this story?
If you read through the comments, you’ll see that issue was cleared up already.
I think the point was to highlight how incorrect the “This doesn’t happen in our community”-delusion is…plenty of brown people sanctimoniously condemn everyone else for their inferior morality, even as we are imperfect. Besides the posts which were linked to DID report abuse of South Asian maids by their Arab employers.
RJ, I really don’t think it’s appropriate to bring folks’ private lives into this. I know facebook is not uber-private, but still, inappropriate.
Vik, are you smoking crack?
kusala – YES!
Sindh still exists. It’s a province in Pakistan and the language is Sindhi. Karachi is in Sindh (although ethnic Sindhis are a small minority in the city itself, it’s mostly Urdu-speakers from India, with Pathans a distant second). Sindh had a large Hindu population (around 20%) before Partition. Unlike Punjab, which was divided between India and Pakistan, the entire province of Sindh went to Pakistan, since the whole place had a muslim majority (except, I believe, Karachi city might have been Hindu majority, as was the Thar Parkar district, which still has a lot of Hindus left). The Hindus (who formed the Sindhi middle-class and the intelligentsia) fled in 1947, and Sindhi Hindus are now distributed worldwide, with large enclaves in Indonesia, Hong Kong, Singapore, other Asian countries, the Arab World, Europe, and the Caribbean. And of course the USA, UK, etc. For some reason their surnames seem to almost always end in ‘ani’…like Govani, Sabhnani, Butani, Advani, Kripalani, Bhojwani, Lalwani, etc. Trust me, that’s just a small sample of names, the list could go on. Anyway, in India they are big in Mumbai and Pune. In Pakistan, the Muslim Sindhis, who in 1947 were mostly illiterate farmers, were largely unable to withstand the onslaught of the educated, Urdu-speakers from India, who came to eventually dominate the region. Gradually they asserted their cultural, political, and linguistic rights, and have done fairly well with that.
This has little to do with the topic per se, (except maybe the Indonesia connection) but can give some background on Sindhis for those who don’t know.
Meaning, the Muslim Sindhis have done that.
Camille
RJ, I really don’t think it’s appropriate to bring folks’ private lives into this. I know facebook is not uber-private, but still, inappropriate.
You Kidding me Camille? Her daughter lived in the house. If I see her or her parents I will spit on them. SHAME!
I know this because a majority of the people I know have domestic helpers, in the US, Europe and all across Asia. And almost every Sindhi-Indian household in China,Phillipines, Indonesia, Singapore, Japan, Thailand, has at least 1 domestic helper, if not more. And while I cant speak for every domestic, you dont hear stories like this, because most, if not all of them are treated well.
Female circumcision, Hema, not castration. It’s about taking away the pleasure, not the functionality.
I dont know about beautiful or cruel, but that certainly is one of the most striking portraits I have ever seen.
Whats more likely is that your sindhi chauvinism is clouding your thinking.
FYI, Sind still exists, and it exists as always toward the south of Punjab.
To put words in Vik’s mouth, it’s hard out there for a pimp-lani. You know, noblesse oblige and all that, old chap.
To all who have voiced the idea of “cultural differences” mitigating circumstances, should Muslim men be given lighter sentences for killing their daughters/sisters for “honor” like in Jordan or Pakistan? Should college kids here from Netherlands be given lesser sentences for smoking weed than American college kids? There is no end in sight. Suffice it to say, it is a despicable idea to mitigate sentences for “cultural reasons,”.
I’m however, willing to listen to how (if at all) you would draw a line sensible enough so that it may be taken into account.
81 Pondatti.
Simply highlighting and shouting this one case from the rooftops does not even begin to equal the systematic horrible abuse of not just SOUTH ASian but East Asian maids in Arab households at least in Saudi Arabia. When the Saudi man was prosecuted for holding the Indonesian girl in servitude in Colorado, the man said that the country was prosecuting “these basic Muslim behaviours” and complained of discrimination and anti-Muslim behavior. So it is completely irrelevant to simply say OH IT HAPPENS IN ALL COMMUNITIES, cos the magnitude and the theoretical/emotional reasoning/justification that is attached within certain cultures is manifestly completely different.
Alot of you are quick to judge these people. We don’t know the facts and the way the pictures of this woman were taken, she looked evil. They may have done what the accussed say, or it may be a way to get money out of the couple and maybe the sympathy of immigration to get permenant residence.
Hear both sides of the stories. What the comments do indicate is alot of you coconuts (brown on the outside, white on the inside, with water in the skull) are quick to condemn a fellow desi but probably give others the benefit of the doubt. One day one of you may get arrested and thanks to the bias already out there against us as being cruel, fundementalists brown folks you might get double screwed.
Hey thanks for explaining the coconut metaphor, we could never have figured it out on our own.
Duryadhan, you forgot to mention hairy on the outside too.
You’re welcome.
I’m still looking for an answer to my question. What kind of visa do these workers come to the US on? Diplomats and employees of organizations like World Bank and IMF are allowed to bring domestic workers on a specific visa category, but I don’t think there is one for private citizens. My hunch is that they were brought here on a tourist or some other valid visa category and then overstayed.
Vik, since you know people who have contract domestic workers, may you could enlighten us on what visa category was used for them.
nypost
“The feds are probing whether a millionaire couple accused of enslaving and torturing two Indonesian women at their ritzy Long Island home were aided by their four kids – including their eldest, shopaholic daughter, who says her favorite movies include “Human Trafficking,” a gritty sex-slave drama.
Pooja Sabhnani, 22, her sisters, Tina, 20, and Dakshina, 19, and her brother, Rahul, 17, the children of Varsha Sabhnani and her husband, Mahender, are under investigation in the victims’ barbaric, five-year ordeal in which they were beaten, tortured, starved and forced to work 21 hours a day, a law-enforcement source told The Post.
Pooja, a 2006 graduate of the Parsons School of Design who works for her parents designing packaging for their lines of trendy, international perfumes, says on her Friendster.com Web site that her favorite movies include “Human Trafficking,” a two-part miniseries that aired on the Lifetime cable channel in October 2005.
The harrowing drama, starring Mira Sorvino and Donald Sutherland, reveals the brutal torture of young women kidnapped, drugged, raped and sold into sex slavery.
On her Web site, Pooja says her other favorite movies include the horror film “The Shining” and “The Transporter,” a flick about slavery in which an Asian girl is trussed up in a bag and stuck in a car trunk.”
Lifelong, IIRC if you work for the US military or state dept and are returning to the US from an overseas posting you are allowed to sponsor and bring back with you one domestic worker. Not sure exactly what the visa status is but I think it’s peculiar to diplomats
Oh my god, Prema, does she believe that the blood gets off on the second floor?
Judging her by the movies she likes is as bad as judging Fred Thompson by his playing a white supremacist in a movie. I like Sunset Boulevard. Does that mean I have a greater predilection to becoming a gigolo who takes advantage of delusional old actresses?
I dont know about you….but i do 😉