Say THAT five times fast. Anyway, am I the only one who had a terribly silly Auntie refer to her kids’ naughty bits as their “shame shame”? Thankfully, my parents always said, “that…you know…” while vaguely nodding in my midsection’s general direction or “kundi“, which is optimal compared to what Silly-Auntie called it. Way to instill healthy feelings about one’s body, there. Obviously anything labeled “shame” is going to be thought of positively. Oh, wait. We’re desi. My bad.
Aside: At one of the best Kahani workshops ever hosted in DC, somehow one of the writing exercises (d)evolved in to a brief discussion of what one was taught to call their “shame shame”, after Turbanhead’s adorable youngest sibling read aloud her draft, which mentioned how she referred to that area as…wait for it…wait for it…
…her happy-no-no place.
Ah, I love wannabe fiction writers and their fantastically fecund minds. 😀
I swear I had a point…but it’s Friday and I’ve missed happy hour…what…was…I…OH YES! Shamita. Dear sweet Shamita. Shamita whom I had never heard of before yesterday, who is younger sister to the woman whose effigy was still a top-seller, as of last week. I’m referring to Big Brother star and Richard Gere-magnet Shilpa Shetty, of course.
Well, Shamita pulled a Britney, though in my day, it was called a Basic Instinct. She showed up somewhere all of two of you care about in a mini-dress without her chuddies on (Thanks, UberDesi). That’s the big deal. Hahaha. Now you know. Yo slick, blow.
While you do that, I’m going to ponder whatever happened to Bel, Biv and DeVoe and whether one should trust a big butt and a smile (I’m inclined to say yes, but I’m biased). Happy Weekend, y’all.
you know, i’m just remembering … my cousins in india never wore underwear growing up … and i’m pretty sure that my aunts didn’t wear any for a long time. i feel fairly certain that underwear did not become a required garment in their lives until the late 90s. i remember complaining to my mom about the fact that my boy cousins wouldn’t wear underwear (unpleasant sight during squatting/sitting cross-legged). we even bought them some underwear one year and they refused to wear it! nowadays, i don’t think anyone would be caught dead without underwear and it seems odd to imagine the old commando days. perhaps shamita-shame-shame was feeling nostalgic.
@100 and 101:
The triangle reference took me back about 30 years when the “Nirodh” condoms were advertised with a ‘lal trikon” jingle…..does it ring a bell to anyone…….maybe not? not many here on the wrong side of 40.
I do have to agree that underwear was a novelty item when I was growing up. did not wear one till I was 13 or 14. Sorry, don’t mean to gross any one out!!. Life was tough those days…you know 🙂 the choice was between 2 square meals a day and other trivial things like underwear :-).
This picture has been circulating for a while and appears doctored. But a great conversation piece though!!
Cliff, Remember those “Sukhi waiwaahic jeevan bla bla†commercials on Doordarshan? Totally awkward moments on Sunday movie evenings. Kids intently looking at ceiling. Parents staring at kids.
I think it is photoshoped (I am talking about the one from adultsport.co.uk). Anyways I am not complaining.
:D, lot of Telugu people call it “Puvvu” (Flower)
Milli and Cliff (# 101 & 102)
Please,please tell me you are kidding ….No underwear till the 90s? where are you from -Jhumri talaiya*?
Every time I start feeling comfortable at Sepia Mutiny ,someone throws in a comment about India that makes me want to weep ,moan and gnash my teeth all at once.
*- No disrespect intended to anyone who is from Jhumri Talaiya
Actually, Runa, if you must know, my cousins are from large towns (not villages) in Karnataka and Tamil Nadu as well as Madras and Bangalore. What do you want me to say, underwear was just not a priority for a) young kids or b) adults who had grown up poor and unaccustomed to undergarments. What exactly is your point here? I’m not sure I like what it implies regarding my veracity or my family. Please clarify.
Most of the women I knew in India also did not wear undies under their saris. Most of them did wear bras though, and those who did not wore really tight cholies (saris blouses).
I also got in the habit of going freestyle (bottom only) for a while.
I don’t even know if lack of undergarments has to do with inability to afford them. I think that, in some contexts, it’s just not practical to have undies on. For example, if you live in India, and your house has one of those Indian-style toilets, and you have to lift up your garments to pee, why add another layer of complexity to all that?
Milli,
I definitely did not mean to imply anything negative about your family.I actually thought you were kidding.I apologize for any offence caused.
Just to see comments here about underwear in India not being used till the 90s absolutely threw me .Because I spent almost all of my adult life in India and do not know ANYONE who did not use underwear irrespective of economic background .And yes,I am including the “poor” or ecomically disadvantaged, the older generation etc in that count. And yes,I have lived in smaller towns across India and it still threw me.
because that’s where the male gets lost?
Runa, thanks for the clarification. I didn’t meant to be so testy (ok, well yes I did, but I see where you are coming from now). When I was travelling in smaller towns and villages this past summer, I saw plenty of young girls (up to maybe age 10?) who were not wearing shirts in public. They were not homeless or poor. I remember when it wasn’t uncommon to see similar sights in even the larger towns in the south. I have seen the evolution of the undergarment in my family — first underwear for adults, then the bra for women, then underwear for all ages! I think, as Hema said, it was a combo of money and convenience. I know for a fact that my grandmother never owned a pair of underwear; she also wore a 9 yd. sari for most of her life, so I’m not sure if that had anything to do with it. The underwear the wear, by the way, is hideous. What passes for a bra is shocking. I wonder when comfortable and/or stylish undergarments will ever take hold in my family.
chuckling oh, well said!
Euphemisms I grew up referred more to the body’s elimination functions, versus sex functions. They were never referred to as chhee for any other reason other than “that’s dirty (from urine, or feces), you shouldn’t touch there.” Interesting, that my mom (and even my grandmom) provided that explanation for chhee at all, and didn’t make a shame shame of it. Actually, I’m amazed at how positively and calmly they handled things!
I have travelled quite a bit of India, have/ and still spend lot of time there. Part of my education and growing up was there.
I have worked in villages in 80s. I know villages in western UP, and Rajasthan quite well.
I have yet to see someone without underwear.
In fact, in sikh religion (dominant demographics of Punjab), a clean underwear is one of the 5Ks that goes back to hundred of years.
There are many local words for underwear – kachha, jangia , langoti, etc.
In fact, white and blue stripped boxer underwear is seen every where – in rural india, across the railway tracks in mornings.
Sure, I have seen some women without bra, and poor kids without any clothes.
This is not to say there are pockets in India where underwear was not common practice. Sure, why not.
However, generalization presented here is a gross misappropriation. I agree with Runa.
Kush,
first of all, I have specifically indicated that I am talking about use of underwear in my own family — that is not a generalization, that is a description of a few specific people. Second, I also specifically indicated where I have seen this: Karnataka and Tamil Nadu, which do not have large Sikh populations. I spent several summers as a child in India, playing with boys and girls who were not wearing underwear. I did not simply dream this up; getting flashes of my playmates’ “post office” was, quite frankly, an uncomfortable part of my reality while staying there. I really can’t speak for underwear use amongst adult males — and I haven’t tried to in any of my comments. I talked to my mother about this tonight and she said that she, her sisters, and her friends did not grow up wearing underwear. I remember talking with my girl cousins about what they used to do when they got their period, and it wasn’t pretty. I talked to another Kannadiga friend tonight who had similar stories about his cousins growing up. I hope that you are not suggesting that I think that only poor people or villagers don’t/didn’t use underwear; again, I specifically said that my relatives are from cities or large towns. I don’t see how you can say that my comments are a generalization or misappropriation and quite frankly, I can’t believe I even have to defend something I’ve seen with my very own eyes. I’m sure what you’ve observed in UP and Rajasthan is true; is it so incredible to think that what I’ve observed in South India — and more specifically, in my own family — could also be true? This whole thread and my original comment were supposed to be humorous, but the insinuation that somehow what I’m saying is untrue or insulting is just rude. Is there some sort of universal belief that underwear use = civilized and lack of underwear = savage? Because I certainly didn’t suggest it; hell, I go commando as often as its comfortable. Hmm. Maybe it’s genetic.
Is there some sort of universal belief that underwear use = civilized and lack of underwear = savage?
No, not at all.
milli, look what I wrote (comment #.113) “This is not to say there are pockets in India where underwear was not common practice. Sure, why not“. I have no problem with your observations, and inferences for parts of India. Not at all. I did not target anyone in comments. However, if you insist, then please read your original and PG’s comments again. I am even believe PG’s comment in part, but not as a generalization.
However, the implication that underwear was not common or recent (90s) is as untrue as it gets. I do not know any religion other than Sikh religion that mandates a clean underwear of a certain modest style, going back to hundred of years.
There a figure of speech in India, common in Hindi/ Urdu/ Hindustani – “langotia/ langotia yaar” which means as close as your underwear. I am sure this did not originate in 90s because I have not lived in India since 80s for a extended period of time at once. Probably, that figure of speech is hundred of years old.
Again, again, I insist I believe your account but it cannot/ should not be extrapolated. There is nothing wrong with it. I have no judgement on underwear/ no underwear – just no broad brush implications.
The way I understood ‘langotia yaar’ was to mean friends from the time they wore langotis (from childhood). Langoti is just a plain rectangular cloth going from front to back through the legs. Poor kids wear langotis because they can’t afford any thing else and modest enough for kids. I never heard your explanation but it is interesting.
circus in jungle,
langoti = underwear or very modest, loose brief/ loincloth (even according to Kamat Potpourri).
That is one of the reason Sikh/ Punjabi warriors chose a more formal brief over loose langoti as a garrison wear.
Now to your point, poor small children when infants only wear underwear (lioncloth) as their only cloth, so you, you can also use it for someone who knew you (was your friend) since you both only wore underwear from childhood.
howevever, langoti yaar is also used for someone very close – as close as…., it has many meanings depending on the context.
i think undergarments became an art form in mughal court too.
Well, I concur with milli. I’m a little surprised at the shock expressed by some people, at the fact that there might be quite a few people who don’t wear any underwear in India. I grew up in the south and i know many who’d do it freestyle. Sometimes it’s just a preference.
@105:
Heyyyy….don’t be dissing my peeps. Jhumri Taliaya is a fine place. No, I am not from there but grew up pretty close from there…….Bhopal. I was born in Kerala, in the middle of sixties and spent first five years of my life there. My first school was “Aasante kallari” where an old man who is the self appointed village teacher would teach little kids to write in palm leaves with an iron nail (naarayam). My grandpa and I would walk around the village wearing just a loin cloth (konakam). Like I said, underwear was not a necessity till one reached the teens….you know what I mean 😉
And…calm down…….no need to get your undies all in a bunch :-)……India and Indians are doing fine with or without it.
Cheers
My young daughter calls that part a “virginia”.
“no need to get your undies all in a bunch :-)……”
ROTFL
My parents (Delhi folk, although they grew up in the South) refuse to wear undies to date … something I never quite got used to, although I thank my stars that they did not impose this preference (or lack thereof)on me.
Delicious: a Tamilian friend of mine would insist that in her circle it was common to refer to a woman’s “idlis” as in “he really loves her. she must have great idlis” :D! Now surely you can’t beat that for sheer fun factor…not to mention a certain indefinable appropo-ness!
So, you are all going to just take it for granted that a picture appearing on the cover of a British tabloid is the Vedic Truth now?
There is this computer software called photoshop. Look into it. It can do many things that to older generations would look like magic.
Shame shame indeed.
less clothing, less shopping, less laundry,less baggage to carry, less thing to worry, and if everyone follow, this will be norm in no time.
i don’t think is the great issue for the celebrety not to wear the underwear or any thing else as they are in the glamour world so the can have the right to do anything they want .being showing fanny is not a big deal ha.if she want she show if she don’t want she won’t show.but she is so sexy
i think she has forgotten and where the sitting there the work is important but problem is there,some sharam (shyness) is there on her face and cryness also it means she has not done any bad and she has love.where she is sitting there people who were sitting we have to ask she is crying or not.if she is crying sheis not in fault but fault is only that is she is in love.
sanjay rawal