Welcome to Sepia Mutiny. If this is your first time visiting and you found us by reading the MSNBC/Newsweek article which commenced with:
The bodies had barely been removed when the racial epithets started pouring in. Cho Seung-Hui, the 23-year-old identified as the killer of 32 on the Virginia Tech campus, may have lived in the state since his elementary school days, but to the bigots in the blogosphere it was his origins in Korea that mattered most. “Koreans are the most hotheaded and macho of East Asians,” wrote one unnamed commentator on the Sepia Mutiny blog. “They are also sick and tired of losing their Korean girlfriends to white men with an Asian fetish.“
then please understand two very important truths:
1) Four out of the five comments which followed that quoted ignorance repudiated it consummately…
For shame.
This entire post decried stereotyping, and look at what you wrote about Koreans. My thoughts are with anxious students facebooking each other, heartbroken family members and everyone else affected by this tragedy. How can yours even go there? [SM]
2) “one unnamed commentator” does not speak for or represent this amazing, progressive, close-knit community
In fact, the views in the soundbite which MSNBC/Newsweek opportunistically and irresponsibly highlighted are NOT shared by the vast majority of those who write, comment or lurk here; they are the exception, not the rule on a blog which was created to enlighten, not divide. We are saddened that such a reputable and established source of news would misrepresent our site’s purpose and imply that the words of a rogue commenter are somehow indicative of the work we tirelessly try to do.
The bitter irony of this situation is that this website exists to create positive change and yet we were mischaracterized by an article about the valid concerns of the Korean American community after Monday’s massacre; as South Asian Americans, we sympathize and understand such issues because we are far too familiar with the concept of “backlash” ourselves.
We pray that Korean Americans are spared what Balbir Singh Sodhi suffered, that the rage which is to be expected after something so senseless isn’t misdirected so that it harms even more innocent people.
Just as one anonymous person who isn’t even a regular contributor here shouldn’t tarnish the reputation of an entire blog, one troubled, lost soul who took his pain out on innocents shouldn’t tarnish the reputation of an entire ethnic community. We are all suffering; let’s put aside the generalizations, stereotypes and impotent rage and work instead towards healing ourselves, our communities, our world.
::
This is what they have to say for themselves:
Dear Mr. Reeves,
I appreciate your note. Our intention was not to chastise Sepia Mutiny in any way–many blogs have been receiving derogatory comments, and Sepia is just one example. I think that anyone who visits the site will quickly find out what you speak of: that it’s an open forum for commentary, and with that comes the possibility of potentially-hateful comments. We would hope that our readers who are concerned about this site check it out and find that out for themselves. Unfortunately, unless we’ve introduced factual errors into a piece we do not print retractions, and we stand by this piece. I appreciate your input and interest and will keep it in mind as we move forward in our coverage.
Respectfully,
Jessica Bennett
Thanks for writing them, Maurice. We appreciate your efforts to rage against the useless, sloppy, too-proud-to-admit-they-erred machine.
i agree with salil – i don’t think they were out for SM, or even looking for it. they simply found a quote that fit the article and went with it. as for the proposed ‘we were framed’ theory…well, as any sensational media reporter knows – any press is good press. i doubt they were trying to take out SM by pointing a large population to it’s existance.
Prema:
Your excuse for writing the original comment is pretty lame. You guessed by generalizing, on the basis of unprovable and derogatory ideas/gossip, the nationality of either a truly evil or mentally deranged individual that committed the worst mass murder in the history of the country. If this is not fodder for idiot-supremacists looking for targets, in a vulnerable and sad/confusing time, then what is?
The MSNBC/Newsweek article is completely misleading, and disingenuous in claiming there is no need for a correction to context, and I will be canceling my subscription to Newsweek (not just for this trespass, but also the earlier sloppy reporting on the flushing of the Korans, that somebody, above, in the comments highlighted) but what Prema wrote was inexcusable.
PS: I think everybody should write to the reporter in question, and say we would be voting with our wallets if she doesn’t correct the contextual implication in her news/opinion article.
This is irresponsible journalism. Whoever wrote that piece ought to apologize. There goes my subscription to Newsweek which I was just intending to renew. Happy to save my $ for something worthwhile 🙂 I hope Fareed Zakaria reads SM regularly hereafter (and if not he certainly should). I too think it would be a good idea to keep this post on top of the screen for a while.
I disagree; the original article potentially contained an implicit generalization, especially since it did not point out that this was the only comment that indulged in any kind of stereotype. Its like saying something to the effect that “all English majors are terrified in the aftermath of this event (since the perpetrator was also an English major), and sure enough some bigot is found to link the tragic actions to things they teach to English majors in college nowadays”, while conveniently ignoring the fact that all the other commentators then proceed to make fun of the said comment.
prema,
are you reviving that tired old theory of martial races?
i’m terribly disappointed. according to the law of martial races, people in the south of India (with the notable exception of Nairs), (and presumably SL as it is all in the tropical belt)were judged to be inadequate for combat due to the ‘enervating’ nature of their climate.
Did that matter to the LTTE who made suicide bombing into an (utterly disgusting, pointless and ugly) art form?
Did that matter to the mostly North Indian Jawans who made up the IPKF–the same force who found themselves to be foxes in a coop full of hens with razor blades and 10+ years of guerilla fighting experience (holding off a much larger conventional force (both sl government and ipkf) with guile and scrounged (and extorted) resources.
The Curzons and Soulburys are long-dead so let’s leave them there and the harebrained theories of their colonialist contemporaries.
blanket statements about a race of people, whether you consider them to be anecdotally proven/true, are RACIST.
Boycott Sal’s.
Boycott Sal’s.
You should boycott the guy that cut yo’ hair.
To be fair to Newsweek, they never said the comment was indicative of sepia mutiny. But they did something worse. To them, an anonymous comment is apparently evidence of some larger American backlash against Korean Americans, which is especially absurd since they do not even know if the commentator is American.
It’s the dumbing down of political discourse, using the lowest common denominator as a way of tarring a larger community. Anonymous comments are only indicative of the anonymous commentator.
No, Huma…I’m sorry that you feel we somehow deserved this.
Scroll up.
Maybe it does, but if so, they almost overwhelmingly lurk, so I don’t know– but you seem remarkably certain about just whom we attract, which is surprising. Beyond that, exposing such people to different views is a good thing. It is important to call people out and have a dialogue with them and model better behavior vs being in denial about such strains of thought in our community.
We do not let hate speech like what you accuse us of tolerating stand– we ban and delete for it, with prejudice. If anything, we get criticized for being TOO sympathetic to Islam. Are you reading the same blog I write for or are you, like the authors of the article which inspired this entire post, in the mood to type recklessly?
There may be dialogue about white privilege and you may not agree with some of it, but the rest of your point is NOT well-taken. And as for the Hot-or-Not allegation, we regularly have discussions about that happening and more significantly– why it happens. We DO call out bullshit on this site, just like we did immediately after Prema gave Newsweek their money quote…progress occurs slowly. Too slowly for your tastes, apparently.
Thank you for sharing and for allowing me to share this right back– the quote they chose does NOT represent a very strong element of Sepia Mutiny, in fact, it represents nothing but garbage that we wasted no time in taking out.
Thank you Maurice for writing such a terrific email to the journalist at Newsweek. I believe that if (as Maurice requested) she didn’t state that the overwhelming majority of comments on the site are not like the one quoted above, then it is indeed a misrepresentation of facts.
p.s. I am a lurker but this incident has prompted me to comment. I think Sepia Mutiny is a wonderful blog and I believe that the way it was represented in the article is totally unfair.
Priceless! I don’t know whether to laugh or cry (it seems some people are caricatures of itself; you know what this means, don’t you: the death of comedy. Seriously, she can replace the Colbert report and nobody would notice any difference)
Pol Pot needs gloves.
I meant caricatures of themselves
MSNBC doesn’t do what it preaches. We must resist temptation to draw ill-conceived lessons from massacre
Talk of double standards.
Ashu: The problem is that sometimes the label does get (wrongly) affixed to the whole blog. I mean, I still know people who ask me what a blog is. I am not sure they’d be able to differentiate between a blogger and a commenter or a MSM journalist. All they know is that it is on a “website”.
So even if it was on the comments only, it could be held (by the ignorant and the nOObs) as a reflection of what the blog itself stands for. And SM is almost a community by itself, a community where I lurk a lot (and talk very less). Which is why I consider it a personal affront. And while I think it is unlikely that SM would be targeted solely on the basis on this one mention by Newsweek (and that offending comment), I’d lean towards reaching out to the Korean community if needed. But if there are more readers like #49, I think we’ll do just fine.
sigh! I agree – my “mountain of a molehill” conclusion was rushed, perhaps by my desire to find good in everything & everyone.
The outrage over the MSNBC article wording IS justified. I will also be writing to the “reporter”
And yes, that link to the DebbiSchlussel log IS priceless … they’re fuming that it WASN’T Islamic-related or -motivated! They obviously err on the wrong side, when it comes to levels of paranoia, than I!
Amazing. Really…just amazing.
For the last several months I’ve turned to a lurker on this site, but this thing has brought me out of the woodwork, because it’s really not fair. The irony lies in the fact that SM is tolerant of all comers, so yes, the nutjobs can (to some extent) comment here, too. And I don’t think anyone on the SM staff is particularly tolerant of blatant generalizations towards any race here; white, Hispanic, South Asian, black, Korean, whatever…make disparaging remarks about them and you’ll first get a warning from SM Intern, and then you’ll get banned.
Simple rules, and yet people always seem to complain that they’re the ones being targetted unfairly. “If I was white / Jesus / a leper / had a stomachache and I said that, you wouldn’t care,” they whine.
Well, speaking broadly, if you recognize yourself in that…God, just shut up. You’re commenting on the site about the site, and complaining that the site isn’t open enough. In my book, that makes you an asshole, and that’s like (as my sister put it so eloquently) “driving an SUV with a yellow sticker on it while we fight a war for oil.”
Thank you, Pooja, for posting the Web editors’ address. I just sent them a hammergram.
It is sad that the reporting at MSNBC/Newsweek follows the same sort of thoroughness as the lazy student who leafs through a book the night before a paper is due, looking for the single quote that he/she can take out of context to prove a point and supply the required number of bibliographic sources.
Your need to apologize is so telling. And you are lying, that is, when you aren’t making sense. We do not let hate speech like what you accuse us of tolerating stand– we ban and delete for it, with prejudice. If anything, we get criticized for being TOO sympathetic to Islam. Are you reading the same blog I write for or are you, like the authors of the article which inspired this entire post, in the mood to speak recklessly?
I think Huma might be referring to Razib characterizing Islam as barbaric. Regular readers who know Razib are well aware that hes not calling Islam ‘barbaric’ in the hate mongering sense but as a part of his inimitable equal opportunity ridiculing all all religions.
I totally empathize with the frustration of the bloggers regarding the representation of your site. Something similar happened to me, in college, with a homophobic quote in the college paper from a member of an organization of which I was president, that I was completely appalled by, yet ended up associated with by virtue of my position. So I truly understand the horror you must all feel. I do think, though, that an intelligent person familiar with the internet understands the difference between a comment on a site and the climate of the site itself. After all, there are plenty of liberal comments left on Debbie Schlussel’s blog (I wish I had never encountered her because now it’s like a scab I have to pick at–painful, but impossible not to).
Anyway, I am curious –why didn’t that comment get deleted?
Dearest Desishiksa, you can’t be asking that question anymore forcefully than I am right now, of myself…I was naive in thinking that calling out stereotyping and addressing such virulent assumptions was the enlightened thing to do.
If I had known that a leading news source was going to take one outlier’s quote out of context and impugn a project that I have centered my life around for three years with it, in some of the laziest journalism I have ever had to witness– I would have deleted it with prejudice.
🙁
There’s a fine line between deletion of inflammatory/racist/ trollish comments and censorship. I think this site does a yeoman’s job treading that line most of the time but I’m sure they all have day jobs too so there are bound to be occasions when the wrong call gets made.
Well, the real strength of this place is that the original commenter ‘fessed up, has already been called on it by another commenter, and will no doubt be further lectured or educated, or more simply, the dialogue continued. And if the comment, which I in no way endorse, was somehow completely misread or doesn’t reflect a bigot, but a poor choice on the part of the commenter, than we have gained something. Banning outright, without first getting to know the person in question, means you can’t do that most progressive of things: begin a dialogue. Aaargh, I’m not getting this right. A lot of different types of people comment here and are welcome here and you really have to bring it, because if you say something stupid you will get called on it, but you will still be welcomed if you are not a troll. If you are genuine. Very few places in life will do this for you. Very few places will accept you and allow you to grow and be there for you while that growth takes place. How else are we gonna move forward as a society if we aren’t comfortable with one another?
Well said MD (#124).
This seems to me to be more a case of lousy journalism in support of a highly questionable editorial position – that there is or might be a backlash – than a deliberate misrepresentation of SM’s blogging position. Still, it could have that effect, so I fully see the wisdom of Anna’s posting the above on a proactive basis.
Things happen so quickly in the blogosphere that it leaves one’s head spinning. It was only yesterday that the comment was posted, and today it has been picked up by another blog, and a third publication (msnbc) is citing it in an article that may appear as shared content in a nationally circulated ‘respected’ weekly Newsmagazine, presumably based on that blog cite! This is all a bit too much. I have great trouble believing that the msnbc writer could have visited SM and not also seen SM Intern’s clearly expressed disgust at the comment, and the clear warning to cease and desist, which appeared right after it. I chalk the whole thing therefore to laziness and slip-shoddiness, but still shameful for msnbc.
SM is a good thing; no it’s a great thing. I have only been on for a few days but even I can see that and I’m not the fastest tool in the shed. SM has excellent writers and contributors. this IS indeed a progressive. If a community can unite the way it has done in the last few days how can that not be progressive.
Maybe I’m naive too, but I think it was the enlightened thing to do. I think the condemnation that comment received after it was posted was just as powerful as a deletion. It’s just unfortunate that someone chose to use it the way they did. I would hope that anyone who visits the site would realize that the overall tone of the site is progressive. Am I sometimes shocked by comments made by readers? Yes, but when they aren’t deleted, I think of it as an opportunity for others to respond and for those people to realize that the whole world doesn’t think like them.
actually i think you got it exactly right.
This proves that MSNBC/Newsweek is basically a glorified racist tabloid. Yes I called them racist. They could’ve as easily picked up comments from Debbie Scmuckster’s blog including the post itself to show this racial hatred angle in its full glory. Instead they pick up some random comments from a minority owned blog where the original post was intended to expose such racial hatred against minority. Whether intention was to undermining SM’s crediblity or not they did so with prejudice otherwise they would’ve posted a retraction. Just more of the subtle racism in mainstream America.
Ok, I think this sucks, definitely. On the other hand, if it gets more people to read SM and open up their viewpoints, then it is not necessarily the end of the world. I just sucks that one unrepresentative comment is being attributed to the blog as a whole.
Prema, for shame. Because you individually think a stereotype is complimentary, it’s ok to say? Honestly, better to bow out now than stand by an inaccurate and damaging generalization.
Also, while I don’t feel Huma’s point really fits into the conversation at hand (that is, we are not even discussing whether or not SM is “progressive,” and I don’t really think it purports to be. We’re talking about whether or not the majority of commentors here say racist, bullshit things), there’s no need to jump on her. [I’m assuming gender, hope I’m not being offensive]. At any rate, all I can say is, there’s a time and place, and this isn’t really it.
correction: hatred against minorities
Will this change anything at SM? I sincerely hope not. It would be a shame to let ignorant posts and sloppy journalism redecorate your house.
Camille, I stand by what I wrote– I can only interpret your comment as being aimed my way since I responded heatedly; I did so for obvious reasons. This blog and its kind, intelligent, dynamic community mean the world to me. It consumes the majority of my waking hours. I work so hard for it and I know it is far from perfect, but I give it my all and I do so without regret because I believe in its goodness. It did not deserve to get slammed like that– by Newsweek or Huma.
Well said, MD (#124). Huma’s comment is interesting. Obviously people have different points of view who post on this site – there are Republicans and Democrats and self-proclaimed Libertarians. But just the other day Anna (of all people) got called a misogynist for using the term “man-whore” or something like that. AND SHE APOLOGIZED for it! (OMG have a sense of humor for crying out loud). Also, that hot or not conversation about Rachel Paulose was dominated by people commenting on how ridiculous it was to even go there. I’m sorry Sepia Mutiny is not progressive enough for you, Huma, but I think you will look back on this (probably after you graduate college and that big progressive bubble you’re in pops) and be grateful that this space exists.
as much as i am wary of the trigger-happy media (especially tv), i think it’s not fair to blame them entirely for creating fears of a backlash or for reporting on fears of a backlash (although how one reports on this aspect varies from station to station or publication to publication). there are fears of a backlash within the korean-american community, expressed by them first or almost immediately after the shootings. and even amongst some of us, we were probably thinking “please let the shooter not be or look like one of us.” (and this sentiment is also expressed in the msnbc article by other east asians). it’s probably a cowardly and regrettable way to think, but the unfortunate reality today. yesterday, the south korean govt. itself expressed fears or hopes that there would be no backlash.
Well, racism is crappy thing, but it is out there, racial ignorance is real. Therefore it will turn up in a place like this. It is unfortunate irresponsible journalism has jumped on the one negative. Like many others have said, hopefully people will check the site out and see it for what it really is. And for what I see it to be.
Lurk,
We’re looking in to it.
Santosh can you please explain to me why MSNBC/Newsweek is a racist tabloid.
SM Intern, How about editing Wiki? It shows third on Google search. Or even create an alt. entry which addresses this issue? Own all possible search terms 🙂
This is outrageous… just got home from work to see this. This blog has done far more uniting than dividing and to take a comment like that and blow it up is ridiculous. The media must really be getting desperate if they’re going into this mode already.
Folks, check MSNBC website, Cho Seung-Hui mailed NBC News a package with letters, photos and a video. Sorry for posting it here.
A N N A (re: #134): am with you, completely. Keep on bringing goodness to the media, girl. Especially where it is so painfully failing.
From the moment I heard the news on Monday, I feared nothing but backlash against KAA (and other AA) communities. I pray bloggers, lurkers & readers alike digest the importance of utilizing fora like SM to unravel prejudices, create and EDUCATE. Cheesy & preachy; but I assure you, all from the heart.
I wonder who the cretin was who wrote that comment,and if he/she knows of any Koreans at all! I am from an Indian background, and I am not ashamed to say that I prefered to hang out with the Korean International students at my university.Of all the asians, I find them the nicest,dignified,polite,welcoming,humerous,laid back, qualities which I definitely find lacking among most Desis at my campus.
Prema wrote:
Ummm…ya think???
What in the world possessed you to write that?
I understand the remark “please let the shooter not be or look like one of us.” It is sad to realize that in the year 2007 we still have to deal with racism. Whenever an incident like the one that happened in VT occurs, or someone is mugged, robbed, etc. I find myself saying the same thing. People are all to quickly to rush to judge someone and lump everyone into a bunch. You read the various blogs and you see comments about “them”, “they”, “those people” and “you people” the comments are hate filled and racist all to often. Fear of the unknown causes suspicion, mistrust and hatred. There is good and bad in all races, it’s a fact of life and we have to accept that. I come from a very large family. Being of a mixed heritage my family is a virtual rainbow of colors, not only that members of my family have married various races of people. I love all my relatives regardless of their ethnicity. I wonder if I will live long enough to see a time when people are judge by the content of their character, nothing more, and nothing less. I pray daily for tolerance in this world. When death came to the World Trade Center, VT, and Oklahoma City, it did not single out one race or color. It came swiftly and took all in its path. We as adults have to teach the children ethnic tolerance, and hopefully the will inherit a more peaceful and civilized world. It has to start in the homes, schools, temples, synagogues, churches, and mosque. “ Save the world make it a better place, for you, me and the entire human raceâ€. Let’s all pray for peace!
MSNBC didn’t say the entire sepia mutiny blog was dedicated to such racist comments. They stated that ONE anonymous commenter wrote this to highlight that such things are being said. I think every one here needs to relax.
Chill:
That was the lead-in to Prema’s quote. I don’t assume that everyone who reads Newsweek’s shoddy article knows who we are– so to them, WE are what is linked to “bigots in the blogosphere”. That’s not fair. That is why everyone here is exercised about this.
I completely disagree with everyone here that this was shoddy journalism. Everyone here is so passionate about this website they can’t think clearly. And, Anna while you lament the “lazy journalism” maybe you should be lamenting the lazy SM moderators for not removing the comment promptly but as your comment states, it was only important to remove if you had known before hand that it would be used against SM (I quote you below). For shame.
“If I had known that a leading news source was going to take one outlier’s quote out of context and impugn a project that I have centered my life around for three years with it, in some of the laziest journalism I have ever had to witness– I would have deleted it with prejudice.”
Did you read the article, chill? It takes a random comment at a blog and uses it to support it’s thesis that Korean Americans are shocked at the vitriol expressed on the blogosphere: it’s not reporting. It’s phoned in. It starts with an assumption and cherry picks events to support the assumption, rather than actually report on an incident. Online chatrooms ‘throbbed’ with hate, according to this article. Really? And when do they not? Read it again and tell me this is the best Newsweek can do. Look, I understand the fears of a backlash. So, Newsweek, report on the backlash. This is the best you can do? Look at the language, the examples used, the writing? Is this the best journalism can come up with?