Straight from the title, “Hidden Apartheid: Caste Discrimination against India’s Untouchables,” you know that the new report from Human Rights Watch (HRW) out today is pulling no punches when it comes to qualifying the extent and seriousness of anti-Dalit discrimination in India today. The comparison with apartheid gained significant political cover two months ago when the prime minister, Manmohan Singh, drew the link in public remarks at a conference in Delhi. Here’s the prime minister:
Singh said: “Dalits have faced a unique discrimination in our society that is fundamentally different from the problems of minority groups in general. The only parallel to the practice of untouchability is apartheid,” he said. “Untouchability is not just social discrimination, it is a blot on humanity,” Singh said.
Calling for a “political, social, cultural and intellectual battle,” against such discrimination, the PM noted that constitutional and administrative measures alone are not sufficient. “Our government is deeply and sincerely committed to the equality of all sections of our society and will take all necessary steps to help in the social, educational and economic empowerment of Dalits. This is our solemn commitment,” Singh said.
Of course the gap between legal remediation and actual practice has been precisely the problem for 57 years, since the Constitution in 1950 outlawed untouchability in all its forms, with further legislation added over the years. The continuing discrimination against Dalits also violates the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, to which India is a signatory, as the convention covers not just what its title narrowly suggests but in fact “race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin.” At any rate, this gap between theory in practice is well known, and the problem has always been to end the actual practices of discrimination, violence, and humiliation that Dalits encounter across India to degrees that perhaps (probably) vary by region and locality but are never, ever trivial.
Consider a few choice quotes from the report’s summary (you can download it or read the whole report online here):
DalitsÂ’ fundamental civil, political, economic, social, and cultural rights are routinely violated by state actors and private individuals, in violation of Article 5 of the Convention. Caste-motivated killings, rapes, and other abuses are a daily occurrence in India, resulting in routine violations of DalitsÂ’ right to security of person and protection of the state. The police have systematically failed to protect Dalit homes and Dalit individuals from acts of looting, arson, sexual assault, torture, and other inhumane acts such as the tonsuring, stripping and parading of Dalit women, and forcing Dalits to drink urine and eat feces. surveyed. …
India has failed to address the multiple forms of discrimination faced by Dalit women. Even as compared to Dalit men, Dalit women do not have equal access to employment opportunities or justice mechanisms. They must contend with threats to their personal security, including trafficking and sexual violence. In some states in India, Dalit women are forced into prostitution under the devadasi system and are ultimately auctioned off to urban brothels. This puts them at particular risk of contracting HIV/AIDS. …
The right to own property is systematically denied to Dalits. Landlessness—encompassing a lack of access to land, inability to own land, and forced evictions—constitutes a crucial element in the subordination of Dalits. Land reform legislation is neither implemented nor properly enforced. When Dalits do manage to acquire land, access to it is often denied. …
The denial of the right to work and free choice of employment lies at the very heart of the caste system. Dalits are forced to perform tasks deemed too “polluting” or degrading for non-Dalits. According to unofficial estimates, more than 1.3 million Dalits—mostly women—are employed as manual scavengers to clear human waste from dry pit latrines. Dalits comprise the majority of agricultural, bonded, and child laborers in the country. …
Manual scavengers are routinely exposed to both human and animal waste without proper protection. This has severe repercussions for their health; most suffer from anemia, diarrhea, vomiting, and respiratory diseases. In many cities, Dalits clear sewage blockages without protective gear. Over 100 die each year from inhaling toxic gases or from drowning in excrement.
The difficult thing is that much of the discrimination against Dalits is well known and considered a fact of life. This isn’t the kind of report that breaks major news that everyone can immediately mobilize around. Rather, it’s a compendium of practices and contradictions and hypocrisies that are all too often recognized individually but either shrugged away as a whole, or, just as often, so daunting in their totality that it’s hard to know what to do. Besides, the only effective political mobilization against these practices will come from Dalits themselves, which means overcoming patterns of intimidation and resignation that are age-old and surmounting a collective action problem of enormous magnitude.
The principal author of the NRW report is a desi sister. Her name is Smita Narula and she is an assistant professor of clinical law at NYU, having previously worked at HRW as their senior researcher for South Asia. You can read more about her here. She also has an audio clip in English and Hindi on the organization’s website in which she states the principal findings and the importance of the issue.
You are a shining example of the utterly amoral mentality of the defenders of casteism, Divya. Slavery too has survived for millenia. To someone like you that must mean that “there is something positive about it”, right?
You hindu fundoos sure like to identify with Hitler and the nazis dont you? There is indeed a lot in common there. Condemning social systems as blatantly evil and pernicious as nazism and casteism is “sanctimonious pontificating”, eh?
How do you defend your beloved casteism? Your argument that its a social security system was shown to be stupid and ignorant. Who on earth is worse off than hindus? Use your brain.
Let’s eliminate families, tribes, jatis, nation, and all other forms of social organization (except for congress party, of course) in iraq so we can sell more valentines day cards, more jesus christ, and more crappy social theories. Don’t you know how degraded those iraqis are. they are killing each other, for gods sake. I have never seen such degradation and human suffering. How can those Iraqis be so cruel, so depraved?
Exactly right.
I wonder if in Doordarshan’s posts Hndus were replaced with Muslims and India with Pakistan – will he/she still have been around here on SM so long? Why does this rabid troll continue to befoul every discussion here that’s about India? Who here secretly admires him enough to give him such a glaring pass?
Doordarshan
You seem to be under the impression that saying words like “stupid”, “ignorant” and “nazi” is some kind of contribution to this discussion. It isn’t – it shows that you are a shrill noisemaker and perhaps do not have much of anything to say.
Caste in india partakes of many things – its is a form of sub-national ethnicity, it is a form of extended family/tribe and it is also a basis for discrimination and degradation. Each aspect is present in indian social formations and any analysis has to acknowledge these functional aspects.
I dont know what your issue with divya is, but your rantings dont indicate any understanding of these roles and constructive thoughts on how to move beyond them.
Shiva, I said that. And I meant it strictly in terms of the impact they had. I am sure Babu Jagjivan Ram was sincere in his devotion to Gandhi, and I also have no doubts about the sincerity of Gandhi himself. But in terms of perception, Jagjivan Ram was non-threatening, while Kashiram, etc took a clear confrontational stance. Also, many people, including Ambedkar, found Gandhi’s attitude to dalits condescending, and dalits no longer see Jagjivan Ram as one of their leaders. I found this an interesting parallel to Booker T. Washington, who btw, was an extremely smart man himself, like Jagjivan Ram, but only of a different generation.
Jati:
I agree with this. Many of the castes that have got reservation protection, particularly under the OBC (Other Backward Castes) category, are extremely influential. In fact, it is this influence that has helped them get their name on the list, as no politician can ignore them. In many part of India(Haryana, UP, Bihar, Rajasthan) you can see a conflict brewing between these castes and the Scheduled Castes (SC), and Brahmins, etc are pretty much on the sidelines in this conflict. In Haryana, for example, its mostly Jatts and Dalits in conflict with each other.
All this complexity is often lost of external commentators.
Jilted,
Many have asked this question before, ways of SM are baffling, many people in the past have been banned for far less but people like Doordarshan are allowed to continue as they pose to be the voice of reason.
My friend I have also asked many questions before and come to conclude that one of SM’s motto is – ” When cornered just ignore “
The truth of the matter is that it is politically correct to trash Hindus (and christians). Hindus are pagans, which also translates as devil worshippers. Subconsciously therefore it seems okay to trash them. The other thing is the caste issue. Since hinduism is viewed chiefly through this lens, this also makes it okay to slam them. So hindus get it both from the left and right. Christians get it only from the left, but they have a vast defense network which can put up a good counterfight. Hindus on the other hand tend to start self-flagellating. 1,000 years of slavery hasn’t helped their mindset either.
As long as the numbers in that report are good, your “disgusting” bureaucracy has the right to kill iraqis for oil. And close your eyes about the millions of iraqis without limbs.
Typically (and I should emphasize there is no set rule on this, it’s just that we tend to defer to each other as a matter of courtesy) the person who put up the post is the one who most closely follows the ensuing thread. I happen to disagree with some of Doordarshan’s points and phrasings, but so too with many other things that have been said on this thread. Given the rather broad spectrum of views that have been expressed here I have found no reason so far to delete anyone’s contribution let alone remove anyone from the discussion or the site. I actually find it quite an interesting discussion despite the unreasoned moments.
sigh! so much for rationality…..bye.
Whoever believes that casteism is a problem particular only to Hindus is indeed a very ignorant fellow. Casteism is a South Asian problem. Muslims and Sikhs are not left alone by it.
1000 years of slavery —
i think you are seriously delusional there, little one.
iraqi caste system is mostly responsible for iraqi degradation. we can see this degradation operating at all levels of iraqi society; it is traceable to the story of Gilgamesha and the forty thieves from a little known work translated by a 19th century british spy – the baklava smriti. Iraqi degardation has nothing to do with americans and the iraqi congress party led by an au pair from kansas. anyone who doubts this is a disgusting negationist.
what is Sikh-Dalits?
“The bottom line after reading all the above seems to be that some of the upper-caste, India-raised people simply can’t stomach the reality and truth about India, especially as it pertains to caste (and in other threads the economy). They are in denial.” (276)
Amitabh you are right on the money! The will to change among the elites does not exist IN THE MAIN, hierarchy is just too fun.
what is Sikh-Dalits?
Jatis like the Mazabhi Sikhs. In Punjab, they frequently have their own gurudwaras. Ambedkar considered Sikhism for a time, but two things turned him off: (1) Master Tara Singh was largely against Untouchables joining Sikhism, as were the Jat elders, because they felt it would diminsih their importance; (2) he heard bad stories from Mazabhi Sikhs themselves about the treatment meted out to them by Jats.
cbn news report:
in the latest development from iraq, the iraqi shia bikrit clan has realized that their current degradation stems from their age-old practice of holding marsh reeds above their heads as they parade down the dirty soiled street of their ancestral village in the festival of hammurandi. The clan has taken the firm resolve to abandon this irrational practice under the auspicious guidance of western donor nations, teesta hammurabai, and the iraqi mutineer blogging corpoaration led by one macaca sid. let us wish these low caste bikritis well as they shed off age-old degrading customs to join the modern world.
It’s another thing to try to remove untouchability around you by inviting people from all castes for social/religious functions, eating together, working together, watching cricket together etc etc.
Exactly. I actually this sort of social behavior modification is more effective at ending discrimination in the long term. Unfortunately, the onus for this cannot fall on government, because government lacks the ability to police social conduct. That is where reports like this one from the HRW both fail and succeed. They fail, because their recommendations are primarily directed to government conduct/regulation, but they succeed (hopefully) by promoting awareness of the problem.
Sakshi, I was referring to the period prior to that (which I now know was before your time). Kashiram didn’t happen overnight. He worked hard and systematically towards his goal. In 80s he said that BSP were going to take over UP. Not many took him seriously (except the Weekly journalist). I find this period fascinating. I am curious about people who actually witnessed this work-in-progress.
We all know what happened when BSP came in power. They were no less corrupt or ruthless than their predecessors. Corruption is quite caste-agnostic. The moral bankruptcy of Dalit leaders is a huge factor that’s holding back Dalit movement.
PS. Kashiram was born in a Raedasi Sikh family, a community of Punjabi Chamars converted to Sikhism. Link.
I have to say that Siddhartha doesn’t come across as contemptuous of either India or Hindus. In fact he of all bloggers exhibits the most solidarity with and sensitivity towards South Asians everywhere -either here or on the Subcontinent.
Now the fact is that India is moving forward in a very rapid way. Anyone who has been to India lately can attest to that. It’s not without reason that both sharp-eyed social commentators and well-qualified financial journalists belonging to venerable news organizations can’t seem to get enough of the ‘ India Miracle ‘ story. I think SM has adopted the self-berating Pankaj Mishra approach towards India’s rise more out of fear of being branded ‘ nationalist ‘ and less out of any sincere appeal to purge India of its social ills. For all it is India remains a vibrant democracy where minorities are equal citizens and continue to thrive unlike some of its neighbors which alternate between hyper-corrupt democracies and self-aggrandizing dictatorships and where some minorities have all but disappeared. And AMfD that’s not a myth.
Like you said, not many people noticed Kashiram in the 80s. The 80s were an extremely turbulent time in India politics, with the rise of terrorism is Punjab and Kashmir, the assassination of Indira Gandhi, the Sikh riots, the rise and fall of Rajiv Gandhi and then VP Singh, the Mandal protests, and then the whole mandir episode. Kashiram worked quietly behind the scenes through it all (its actually amazing if you think about it), and only the most astute followers of Indian politics would have paid attention to him. I doubt u’d find one such on SM 🙂 .
May he who never flagellated caste the first stone.
May he who never flagellated caste the first stone.
So much material, so little time! 😉
An observation about how majority-minority dynamics works in strange ways in India:
Divya, I’m not sure what you mean by this. You say how remarkable it is that they keep it together, and ask to imagine how different it might be in another part of the world. I have to ask, what according to you would be different in other countries for people in similar situations? and even if the people you are referring to, do manage to remarkably keep it together. It isn’t a good thing that they have to fight for food and water, is it?
Derick –
I mean that many of these (so-called upper caste) people are dirt poor. I was reading about some place in Arunachal Pradesh where the women had go into the river and wash their sari part by part while still wearing it as they have only one sari. Most people eat only one meal a day. Many of them have to walk up to a mile sometimes to get water. So when people talk about fights over water, you have to bear in mind the extreme poverty these people live in and that many of the fights even if they are called caste fights, really only are about resources.
Consider what happened in New Orleans during Katrina. When put to the test, things completely fell apart, there was rape, looting etc. Contrast this with the earthquake in Pakistan a couple of years ago. There too society is organized along caste/tribal lines. There was no rape or looting. This is because caste/tribes are self-governing social entities and therefore it makes no difference if there are any cops around whereas anywhere else in the civilized world they cannot survive without cops. DonÂ’t you think self regulation is a far better ideal than laws handed down by the government?
None of this is meant to deny that caste/tribal atrocities don’t exist. All I’m saying is that by labeling everything a caste atrocity and looking at the matter one-dimensionally we actually add another layer to the crime. This creates more disharmony not less.
Please name one movie.
What’s there to loot?
Ok, on the serious tip. I dont know how caste distinctions inherently curtail looting? Are you saying a “lower” caste would think to himself:
“Hey everything’s shaking, I should go steal me some cadbury’s, oh wait a minute, I can’t step in that store, it’s owned by so and so, they’ll be pissed if I step inside!”
To begin with, let me clarify that I am not a troll. I have no intention of eliciting flames or making it a pissing match between the “nationalists” and the “enlightened”, as I donÂ’t belong to either camps. All I expect are measured logical responses, as some of the things that people assume as self evident here are neither intuitive nor self evident for me.
I am someone who is considered to be an educated Indian. By birth, I belong to a middle caste, who is agnostic and does not follow any traditions. I have an engg degree from India and a Graduate degree from the US. I read/watch mostly English News/channels and spend my life in US and India. Having never been taught in a definitive way (by this I mean proved conclusively, without assumptions/exceptions/contradictions) what is right or wrong or what is moral / ethical (All this, again in western sense), I am still trying to make sense of these words and what they mean (Right/moral/ethical). Suffice it to say at this point of time that I have not been convinced that “all humans have equal rights”
More could be said/questioned about my background, but what matters is that I represent a typical Indian to whom the following is not surprising: “the gap between legal remediation and actual practice has been precisely the problem for 57 years, since the Constitution in 1950 outlawed untouchability in all its forms, with further legislation added over the years”
The reason why it is not surprising is because. “The legal remediation goes against our relationship with the world”. Without an explicit, proven ( not because the west says so, but because it is intuitive or can be established without assumptions, to all humans) theory about why all humans of all shapes, color, size and accomplishments should have equal rights, which matches with our experience with the world, It will be difficult to bridge the gap between the law and the practice.
Having said all this, to some, I may come across as a callous person who is trying to justify the injustices in Indian society intellectually. To this my answer is that caste has never been a consideration to me in life. More than my self, I would like to protect two of the most considerate/reasonable people I have ever come across, from being called immoral: • My grand father, when he heard that one of his bonded laborers is at the bus stand trying to run away to Bombay, asked my uncles not to pursue him. Reason being that if he hated his life in village, so much that he wanted to move to an unknown city like Bombay, he should be let go. • My mother who does not let our cleaning lady enter the Kitchen, but stopped eating meat after she saw an animal being killed.
My point here is simply that, most of the Indians do not see caste system as immoral. However, they do find some of the practices within this system as immoral. So it makes sense to concentrate on getting rid of the injustices within the system rather than over throwing the whole caste system. This is especially so, when the critique on caste system is based on something as un-intuitive as human rights.
I will respond to any reasonable critique of this post. But I do expect that you try to prove, rather than assume: • Caste system is bad/immoral • Caste system is the reason for degradation of Indian society • All humans are equal and should be treated equal, while the remaining species are subject to the law of the survival of fittest
It’s breaks my heart that all of us hindu’s, sikh’s, muslims. Jatt’s, Brahmin’s, Dalits’s, Chamars and anybody I missed should stop this fighting and should instead unite over a common cause. We are all brothers and sisters from the great country of India.
Our sister Shilpa Shetty was exposed to such hate from the colonists that was 100 times worse then any so-called caste problems that may or may not exist in Canada.
We must all protect the honor of the innocent Shilpa Shetty.
Ok, on the serious tip. I dont know how caste distinctions inherently curtail looting? Are you saying a “lower” caste would think to himself:
Sir HMF esq,
What Divya is saying is very simple:
“Social groups on the basis of clans/ tribes govern themselves, and impose a loose code of conduct and self-help in times of stress“
In Kashmir (2005-06) after the earthquake, what happened is amazing, that about 80,000 people moved down the snow line in November-December, and the social structure that is built on tribal and clan loyalties took care of them. It was somebodies mausi jahan or chacha jahan that stepped up immediately. Some of those organizations that did lot of footwork in Pakistan Kashmir after the earthquake are banned in India, that is besides the point but nobody can deny their contribution.
This all happened in one of the most difficult terrain in the world, in the harshest conditions.
There is plenty to loot everywhere, my friend.
Isn’t it Kanshiram and not Kashiram.
So presumably your mother doesn’t let the cleaning lady into the kitchen because she is of a lower caste? Does she then in turn believe that she is not as good as a Brahmin who is a higher caste than her?
What exactly does that have to do with caste? I’d think thats rather attributed to the people’s existence there for 1000’s of years, which might be tangentially related to caste, but not necessarily a direct product of it.
No matter how much we in the US scream we’re “united” we’re still a bunch of strangers, generationally speaking.
And a sound social structure must exist alongside resources. There
sorry, #335 was directed to fitty cents.
Divya #297,
Neither the British nor Indians tried to eradicate jati, if that is what you mean there. They have all immensely influenced the way jati has evolved. The British are the ones who systeatically aggregated and tallied the different jati names with the census. They also conferred status like martial castes and criminal castes and scheduled castes. The Indian government that followed them set up an elaborate system of quotas for SCs and STs and the state governments followed up with quotas for backwards castes, such that instead of becoming forward, every jati was clamoring to become backward to take advatage of the incentives. And then we have our political system that views jatis as voting blocks that keeps them alive. Despite the ignorant rhetoric of some to ban, eradicate, eliminate jati nobody has ever done so. Besides, eliminate jati is like saying eliminate an identity, whether linguistic, (Gujarati, Tamil, Punjabi) or geographic or religious or allegiance to a nation statelike American, Indian and so forth. What is important to remind everybody is that, it is the negative aspects of Jati namely discrimination, tribal rivalry for power and pelf that should be eliminated. In other words how do we make Jati irrelevant to most issues of economic development and make it a tool for social harmony. That is where the focus needs to be. Confrontational rhetoric from external actors like HRW, quotas and reservations that are open-ended with no end in sight, vote bank politics and request for jati data in government applications are not helpful in this regard.
What exactly does that have to do with caste? Sir HMF esq,
Please read comments by Ikram (part Pakistani by origin) and jilted_manhood above.
Because these tribal/ clan loyalties and associations in Kashmir and elsewhere are built on the caste and region of their origin before they converted to Muslims/ Sikhs/ Christians.
For example, a Rajput Muslim maintain their close loyalty/ kinship with other Rajput Muslims. There is nothing tangential about it.
Same with Jatt Muslims.
Ikram wrote an excellent short comment above.
This was one of the core of problem with East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) and (West) Pakistan.
There’s a question of ethics. A concept unknown to the “remaining species.” If you’re suggesting humanity is subject to survival of the fittest in the same way animals are, then whats to stop the group with the largest amount of weapons simply attacking and occupying those countries who lack these weapons? Wait. Never mind.
King Kush D.V.M:
Sure, I’m all for, “I’ll help you because you’re from so and so place” but what should be avoided is, “I won’t help you because you’re not from so and so place” It’s a subtle difference.
And when did I get knighted and a law degree at the same time?
Yes, sloppy typing on my part. It’s Kanshi Ram.
“There’s a question of ethics. A concept unknown to the “remaining species.” “
i think that’s too sweeping a statement. the best we can say now is that we don’t know for sure whether animals have a sense of ethics as we define the term (a problem in itself when trying to test for it). certainly there are animal behaviors that would qualify as ethical from our point of view and vice versa (especially in primates), but they have their own systems of laws, behaviour, hierarchy, social support systems etc. it’s not always survival of the fittest amongst animals – they look out for their own weaklings in many ways. if only animals could speak english, or hindi, or spanish – we might be surprised by what they think of our “ethics”. i hate it when people accuse other people of behaving like animals. most of the times, the animals are much better behaved than we are.
Hit,
Do you have to ask?
“the gap between legal remediation and actual practice has been precisely the problem for 57 years, since the Constitution in 1950 outlawed untouchability in all its forms, with further legislation added over the years”
But why is this so? Because people believe in hierarchy and the standing social order. In Tamil Nadu, there is a twin-tumbler policy is effect in rural districts. There are separate tea tumblers for Harijans and Thevars and other caste Hindus in tea shops and even some bus stops. State inspectors “raid” these shops periodically to make sure there is no discriminating, but when they leave, the tea shops go back to their practices, which have no functional benefit, and are not an effort at obtaining resources, nor do they serve as a “social safety net”. Its pure and simply a matter of what they do, what their ancestors did, natural as the sun. Several Adi Dravidas have been seriously beaten for challenging the system. Education would help, a different spiritual perspective as well, provided its native and local, gradual, not pontificatory and condscending, not from “progressive” New York…
And some of these so called Hindu gurus give “breathing for dummies” classes to bangalore yuppies and by flat screen tvs with their foreign donations for their state of the art ashrams. While remaining silent on caste. Swami Ramdev says he doesnt recognize caste because everyone is born a sudra. Good and well, but please say something about the fact that others do.
If she is allowed to enter a Brahmin kitchen, she does go in. However, she has no grouse if she is prevented from entering it, as long as it is not stated in a crude way (normally indian houses have an informal way of letting you know, which parts of the house are accessible to you). She calls it their “achara”. There is no question of being as good as a Brahmin. In fact she respects the people who follow their achara, more than who dont.
According to B’wood, their men are all bewdas and their vomen = tight clothes and lose morals. Albert Pinto Ko Gussa Kyon Aata Hai is a good start. To see why Katlics are pissed.
are you saying that humans with better weapons occupying weaker countries has not happened in human history. So all the stories about war that I have read in history books and watched on TV is false?. wait. never mind
Or they should just start burning shit down. Judging by the number of apologists here, among so-called educated desis, I wouldn’t blame them. One reason there has been no revolution in India like China or Russia is because there can never be organic unity among the discriminated. They are divided into subcastes, each thinking itself superior to the other! Amazing, caste…
Perhaps the rise of the lower castes in the democratic system has ameliorated any impulse in that direction as well.
According to B’wood, their men are all bewdas and their vomen = tight clothes and lose morals. Albert Pinto Ko Gussa Kyon Aata Hai is a good start. To see why Katlics are pissed.
Shodan,
To counter you there is Bobby; Amar, Akbar, Anthony; 36 Chowringee Lane; and hazaar other movies. It ain’t that simple.
FYI: Dabar Seth (from Deewar)/ Chinai Seth (from Waqt)/ Chaman Lal and billion villians (almost anyone who attempted rape) in Bollywood are shown to be baniyas very distinctly. Have I seen them (the baniyas) lamenting. No !!! Leave art alone…….They show the world they perceive though Mumbai lens.
Unless you are General Musharraf chatting to lovely Ash over dinner.