There are two kinds of people in the world: those who have been counting down to Wednesday all year long, and those who wonder why so many people are buying flowers for President’s Day. I count myself in the latter camp, having been single virtually every Vday that I can remember. So I watch with amusement as many of my friends work themselves into a lather because of the intense pressure to commemorate this day with precisely the right amount and kind of conspicuous consumption.
The mingled scent of love and desperation in the air can mean only one thing for desis these days, namely speed dating followed by quirky stories from the mainstream media. Here’s a NYT article about Muslim Speed Dating Meeting:
A few years ago the organizers were forced to establish a limit of one parent per participant and bar them from the tables until the social hour because so many interfered. Parents … alternate between craning their necks to see who their adult children are meeting or horse-trading bios, photographs and telephone numbers among themselves….
Mrs. Siddique said her shy, 20-year-old daughter spent the hours leading up to the banquet crying that her father was forcing her to do something weird. “Back home in Pakistan, the families meet first,” she said. “You are not marrying the guy only, but his whole family…” [Link]
I suspect journalists are tickled by this spectacle because to them speed dating is like the bar scene, but faster. So the idea that conservative parents endorse it is weird. Parents, on the other hand, see it as a faster way to set up little tea encounters for their children, but only wholesale instead of retail. And desis love a bargain!
Desi parents (especially Muslim ones, but I’m sure there are similar scenes in other communities) do make it pretty easy to be mocked:
One panelist, Yasmeen Qadri, suggested that Muslim mothers across the continent band together in an organization called “Mothers Against Dating,” modeled on Mothers Against Drunk Driving. [Link],
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p>So who’s right? Is speed dating/meeting a truly chaste solution to parents’ worries, or is it the first step down the slippery slope to group sex and public handholding?
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Mothers trade biodatas while their children speed date |
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p> It turns out both sides are right. Speed dating actually comes out of a conservative religious impulse. It was created and trademarked by Rabbi Yaacov Dayo, who laid it all out in the romantically titled “A Time-Saving Guide To Finding Your Lifelong Love”. The purpose was to encourage a return to the good old days of civilized courtship:
“Throughout the 1800s and early 1900s people dated to get married,” … But many modes of contemporary dating are a sad waste of time for those aiming at permanency, especially women who want children, … “It’s not because they don’t want more meaningful relationships. I think it’s a question of them not knowing how to get there–I think they just cannot figure it out.” For one thing, … there are not enough elders to serve as role models for building successful, intimate, long-term partnerships. [Link]
So the parents aren’t wrong to see speed dating as an ally in their quest to protect their children’s morals. Or are they?
When psychologists have studied speed dating they find that people ignore all of the weighty factors that parents stress, and choose based largely on … hotness:
“Although they had three minutes, most participants made their decision based on the information that they probably got in the first three seconds,” Kurzban said. “Somewhat surprisingly, factors that you might think would be really important to people, like religion, education and income, played very little role in their choices…” [Link]
… study participants were asked ahead of time what they would prefer in a partner. Men–rather predictably–said attractiveness, while women listed intelligence and sincerity… However, when they moved through the speed dating process there was no appreciable difference between men and women. Both used attractiveness to make their decisions. [Link]
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p>And in fact, like in a bar, there’s even a closing time effect, at least for men:
Also, during the last two dates of the session men were a lot more likely to say that they’d like to see someone again. “This corresponds to a saying that ‘women are prettier at closing time,'” said Simonson, referring to a study that asked men in a bar to rate the attractiveness of women at 9 p.m. and then at midnight (controlling for alcohol consumption). The women were deemed to be more attractive later in the evening. “You don’t find that spike in women saying yes at the very end of an evening,”… [Link]
Ssssssh. Don’t tell the uncles and aunties though 
I am slacking! what website is this?? where, when, how, who???
The Sikhs are doing it too.
I love that they market it as Speed Meeting and not Speed Dating – that way the aunties will be more likely to push their kids. Because it’s ok to meet other Sikhs speedily, but date? Sikhs don’t date. And dating speedily?? The horror! It just seems that the word ‘dating’ tends to be more objectionable than the action itself. If you’re dating it means you’re having lots of sex, catching an STD, and coming home pregnant.
I like the concept of speeddating with Sikhs, but I don’t think it would work, for me, practically. I will say, though, I’m not just speculating – I actually gave it a shot. I went to their pilot one in NYC (they’ve had a number since then, and are having another in NYC this coming weekend I think). I figured, hey, if nothing else, I’ll come home with some good stories – that tends to be my motivation for doing a lot of things. The men I sat with met every prediction I made ahead of time – I knew half of them already, and the other half just weren’t….yeah…. they just weren’t. Some of this just has to do with the local Sikh community – we’re mostly separated by no more than two degrees, and the likelihood of knowing half of the people at such an event is pretty high. Still – who knows?
But the way the whole thing is packaged just doesn’t sit right with me. It’s speed dating – call it speed dating. How you market it influences who you attract to the event itself. I’m sure that they’ve fine tuned since the original event, but when I was there, some of the guys just thought it just a networking event. Other guys came there with their pendu protocol. One guy came with a leather portfolio containing clean copies of his biodata. One guy was telling me how he’s been in NY for 3 years, has no friends, and only works and hangs out at home with his parents. I felt for him, and tried to maybe suggest where we could get involved locally or meet more people his own age. He ignored my comments, and proceeded to ask, “So what do you think about living in a joint family?”.
Yes, there are characters everywhere – they’re not all Maharaja Charming Singh. And you have to take risks because you never really know where you’ll end up meeting that special person. I’ll usually try anything twice. I may even go speeddating again, but, I’ll be a little more wary this time.
“Heightism” isn’t as big a problem in this country as racism. That’s why they’re different.
But in general, the idea that it’s ok to fuck someone but not to marry them because they belong to a certain group is pretty heinous. I don’t see how this is even open to argument.
hehe =)
yea same here…let me know next time you go, its fun dissecting in groups
As a 25 year old myself, I would like to defend “my people.” I personally feel like it is too early (for me!) to be “looking” for a life partner. If one presents him-or-herself, then so be it – I’m open to it.
This is something my same-age friends and I talk about all the time. Do we date just to find someone to marry? Is it “ok” to date someone you know you would never marry (for religious reasons, life outlooks, whatever)? Isn’t it ok to date someone because you like his or her company, and there’s a mutual attraction? Am I thinking about this more because I’m desi and there’s all that cultural marriage-pressure?
And why does age matter? Why is that more ok when one is 15 or 20, or even 25, but not 40? 40 is the new 20 anyway, right?
” And why does age matter? Why is that more ok when one is 15 or 20, or even 25, but not 40? 40 is the new 20 anyway, right?”
Check out this news article.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/02/05/sex.teens.reut/index.html
Sex is highly underrated amongst teenagers for its power. Its almost noone gives it the serious consideration they should. desis or non desis.
While it can be path to nirvana, can be a wuck descent into a lifetime of deep dark depression.
Also, I’d like to know, how do teenage girls deal with the pressure to have sex combined with the fear of pregnancy. Cannot be a happy experience with so much fear..On the other hand the lack of fear is high risk behavios and jsut because many get away with it is no guarantee that everyone will.
How are the more sensitive ones protected in such an environement? Or is everyone condemned to a jaded lifetime approach to sex..without the natural easy going pleasure it can promise..?
Curious to know what younger folks think
Neal:
So, you think all the personals that go “SWM …” are wrong?
I mean, come on, dating is a personal thing. I might date exclusively brown because that is my prefernce. I think it only becomes racism if I discourage others from dating non-brown.
Yes! I guess this is what I was trying to say (less articulately) about the furor over “dating.” My mother, raised 99% of her life in the U.S. and U.K., to this day thinks that dating is all about heri pheri.
True! Maybe I am too crazy, but I while I respect folks who are very “serious” about their dating and are dating to marry, this isn’t the case for a lot of folks. As someone solidly in tamasha’s demographic as well, I have no interest in marrying in my early 20s, if at all (the horror, I know). Given that folks are settling down later and later in life, why go dating-celibate in your 20s just because you’re not looking for your partner for life? I think it varies a lot by the individual and their preferences. I feel where Neal is coming from, but at the same time, I think we (those who date) all date people we aren’t planning to settle down with.
“I think we (those who date) all date people we aren’t planning to settle down with.”
Or just hook up at parties 🙂
Hello Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta-Jones? 🙂
No offense, venu, it’s not racism only when you discourage others. Kind of weird logic, my friend. Not calling you a racist, just saying there is definitely a subtle racial undertone in community-specific dating.
Incredulous, what do you mean? Are you talking about sexually active women in their teens? Not sure what you mean by “more sensitive ones” and “jaded lifetime approach to sex.”
“Hello Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta-Jones? 🙂 “
Point taken Camille but very few of us bring Hollywood clout to a relationship…for those of us doomed to the rapidly dwindling middle classes our best years are our twenties and from a guys point of view you’d better find yourself a wife before that pot belly begins to enlarge…:)
Well, personally I DO think the “SWM only” attitude is closed-minded, but that’s a different issue.
We’re not talking about ‘dating exclusively’. If you only want to date members of your race, I think you’re missing out, but it doesn’t bother me. What bothers me is saying: “this specific racial group is appropriate for sex, but not for a loving relationship”. I do think that’s dehumanizing. It’s saying “I can use your body, but I could never become emotionally involved with you because of the color of your skin”.
“I can use your body, but I could never become emotionally involved with you because of the color of your skin”.
Great point Neal but just replace ‘color of your skin’ with ‘I am too young’, ‘You are white and my parents wouldn’t approve’, ‘I just wanna f^%k’, ‘You are not a doctor’, ‘You are too poor..’ and a million other reasons people give to be able to have sex without strings. Race just becomes another excuse…..Seems to me without parental guilt trips none of us would ever get married…:)
To be even more precise, the attitude that really gets on my nerves is the parental one which tolerates, or even encourages, this kind of behavior. Razib’s initial post set out this situation, where a parent turns a blind eye to a Desi man’s various sexual relationships with Caucasian American women with the understanding that he is just after sex, but not a “real” relationship. I just think that’s horrible. It’s a social assumption that a whole group of people can and should be treated as nothing more than sexual objects. And, frankly, it’s a double standard, since Desi women certainly aren’t out there “sowing wild oats”.
I’m not saying we have to treat every relationship like a potential marriage. But when the assumption is that you will treat every interaction with a brown women as a prelude to a wedding, the parallel idea that relationships with other races are “just for fun” (eg: sex) is pretty disgusting.
glass houses – I’ll back you up here. I guess I ‘matured’ more quickly than most of my friends – once I started college I told myself that I would only date people who I could potentially see myself with forever (of course, you can’t know everything about a person so quickly, but you can see if they match your basic requirements – i.e. religion and what not). And it happened sooner rather than later – never thought it would – but I was married a month after I turned 22 after meeting the perfect guy at 19. And I have no regrets of not dating around while in my 20’s – I get to spend my 20’s not worrying about dating games and when I’ll meet the right guy =)
And, for the record, I encourage all my friends to date seriously in their 20’s because I know way too many men and women in their 30’s who want to get married and can’t find anyone, many of whom had plenty of opportunities in their 20’s.
But, of course, I’m not saying this applies to everyone – I fully understand that there are many people who are either not interested in marriage or don’t think it’s something to think about until they are 30+ – just laying out my perspective.
I agree with you Neal with no ‘e.’ I mean, you can’t really put a price, face, race, whatever on a true connection. BUT, I have to say that some of those things play a part in a person’s idea of a true connection and I respect that too.
Tamasha, excellent defense of our people:) I am out there to have fun right now and if someone amazing comes up at a bar, club, bookstore, produce aisle, my parent’s house, a desi function–well I am open to that. That would be great. I do think I am under more pressure than my mostly non-desi friends to get married because of the 2cd gen factor. My jewish and east asian friends, at least the women, feel the same type of pressure too so we are not alone.
There is a definite difference in the way desi kids are treated based on gender. My 29 yr old cousin was labeled as ‘desparate’ to get married–i don’t believe it was a self-imposed label. But, her brothers who are around the same age are ‘enjoying their youth and growing professionally.” Luckily my parents haven’t adopted that philosophy, but I definitely see it in a lot of ABD’s families.
Am I the only person who finds the term “biodata” really creepy? Maybe it’s because the word isn’t used as much in Britain, but I always have visions of Desi mums and dads collecting tissue samples from successful 2nd gens in order to genetically engineer the perfect son/daughter-in-law. Or am I showing my own fears a little there?
I think that’s true. There are tons of websites about intermarriage and why it’s bad for Jews…just google “jewish intermarriage”. A lot of young Jewish people buy into it, just like a lot of desis do, and that’s fine in my opinion, if that’s how they feel. If you’re okay with inter-dating but not intermarriage, I guess that’s okay too, as long as you’re upfront about it–just be prepared to deal with a lot of sticky breakups, I guess. A lot of those people end up changing their minds anyway. Case in point: My husband said he always thought he would marry someone Jewish. He said that as a random conversational comment 2 weeks before we started dating, and I was 23 and not looking for a future husband, so I went out with him anyway, and now we’re married without that ever becoming a huge issue. We did revisit it before things got serious and got it out of the way.
Camille:
I know, right? What would I do with my free time then?
Sonia Kaur: Just one point: this
is not how I’m “spending” my 20s either.
Dateration:
Thanks. I like your name.
Also – one more thing, sorry. Maturity does not necessarily equal marriage, or the ability to be married, or the desire to be married, or having found someone you want to marry.
Done.
tamasha, a huge non-religious “amen!” with respect to the maturity comment.
Taj, just wait, one day parents will be taking cotton swabs to the inside of their children’s mouths to analyze their DNA and will post those findings under “biodata” also. I’m kidding, but unfortunately I wouldn’t be surprised if it DID happen.
But then you’d know for sure they were your cousins!
With some desi marriages, you’ve known that all along
Hilarious!
When I dated someone who happened to be black in college, my parents kind of freaked out. Only a few weeks into the relationship, they had talks with me about inter-racial marriage, racism, and bi-racial kids. When I brought up my parents’ concerns with my boyfriend, he was like WTF, we’ve only been dating a couple of weeks and you’re already talking marriage?!! I guess Indian parents are kind of hyper.
Hilarious!
When I dated someone who happened to be black in college, my parents kind of freaked out. Only a few weeks into the relationship, they had talks with me about inter-racial marriage, racism, and bi-racial kids. When I brought up my parents’ concerns with my boyfriend, he was like WTF, we’ve only been dating a couple of weeks and you’re already talking marriage?!! I guess Indian parents are kind of hyper
That is how desis mostly are, I’m afraid. Even chaste types of dating are frowned upon with most parents I know (in several states from CA to NY). Even in Bangladesh, middle class people usually don’t date nowadays (from what I’ve heard). A lot of people only date when they come here; I was beyond shocked when I saw a young BD FOB couple smooching on a street corner! My uncle’s wife’s family only believes in the strictest form of arranged marriage, where the man and woman don’t talk until the wedding. In their case, my uncle saw her in the mall, and decided that he would marry her. She didn’t know who he was and why he was there, but only had the biodata info. Now, her parents (back in Bangladesh) want her younger sister (22) to marry, but my auntie thinks that she should get a job first and look for a husband (who is settled in US and financially secure). My aunt once said that how her marriage was conducted was TOO fast, and I get the feeling that she would’ve liked to have the chance to see more men (talk to them, I mean). They seem like a pretty happy, compatible couple, though they are not rich- they have 2 terrific kids and treat each other as equal partners in life.
Same from me!
Also, thanks Tamasha: Dateration=CoffeeFace:)
The first time I saw a couple kiss intensively in public it was outside of a flat complex in Pune, India. Hmmm.
What about sex for sport with black women?
Are black women fine as sexual objects too?
Wow, bless the lucky couple.. I love Indian Weddings..