Aishwarya Rai, who has been in the news lately because of her engagement to Abhishek Bachchan, has apparently been ritually married to not one but two trees before her real marriage (thanks, Antahkarana). The aim is to counter the astrological effects of being born a Manglik:
But Ash is reportedly blighted with what in astrological terms is described as “manglik dosh,” which means that the planet Mars (mangla) and possibly even the planet Saturn are in the seventh house. People with manglik dosh are prone to multiple marriages, according to San Francisco Bay Area Vedic astrologer Pandit Parashar. That means Ash’s marriage to Abhishek could either end in divorce or his death.
In Hindu tradition, in order to offset the evil influence of manglik dosh, a woman should marry a peepal or banana tree before she ties the knot with her fiancé. Or she could even marry a clay urn, which should be broken soon after the nuptial ceremonies, signifying that the bride has become a widow, and the manglik dosh problem has been solved.
ItÂ’s not known if Ash has married, or plans to marry, an urn, but she reportedly has married a peepal tree in the holy city of Varanasi, and a banana tree in the southern Indian city of Bangalore. (link)
The Indian media is reporting that a case has been filed against the Bachchan family by lawyer Shruti Singh to the effect that these types of practices promote untouchability. She has also suggested that it’s offensive to women.
There has been some discussion of this event on the blog Feministing, and one commenter there points out that the practice of marrying a tree can also be recommended for men, though I haven’t been able to confirm that. (If true, that would definitely weaken the case that this is a misogynistic ritual.) Other commenters have suggested that this is probably pretty harmless in the big scheme of things — especially since honor killings, dowry killings, child marriages, and forced marriages are still problems in Indian society.
What do readers think? Is this “backward” practice part of a slippery slope (only one step away from things that are much more problematic), or something basically harmless? What do you think of Shruti Singh’s claim that this practice promotes untouchability? I must admit I don’t know very much about Hindu astrology, and so can’t say what role caste plays in these practices in general.
Ahh where do I start…
For people who buy into this BS, it provides peace of mind. Otherwise your life is in your hands, you can make ir or break it.
Besides, if marrying a tree (or an urn) and then ‘killing’ it, gets rid of the problem, I am sure there are other guidelines about getting married to a ‘widow’.
Selective acceptance seems to work for these people.
Brown dudes all over the world are jealous of a Peepal and Banana tree.
Mangal Shumpgal. My pandit told me that I have something in my ‘kundli’ that nullifies and negates a mangal dosh. Fortuntely, those super powers were not necessary since my wife doesn’t have a mangal.
And apparently people of both sexes can be mangliks. See here and feel free to delete this comment.
Punjabis usually don’t believe in jyotish astrology. BUT, it is strange how a manglik friend was told her case was so bad that she, too, had to do a similar ritual. Sadly strange, her husband of 1.5 years did die in India. My stars say I’d be a bad driver throughout my life, and proudly attest to giving “women drivers” a bad name. Perhaps I should carry my kundli in my car, to prove I am simply fulfilling my destiny by running red lights, speeding, and tailgating.
A little something in your wallet also helps.
My main experience with this is with the writer R.K. Narayan, who married for love — in a match that was condemned by the Jyotish. But then his wife died quite young, and Narayan was crushed (he never really recovered). Some recent critics have suggested that it might have actually made him become rather superstitious, and you can kind of see why.
If I were in Aish’s situation, I might agree to it just so no older person would later blame me in case the marriage to Bachchan Incorporated turns out to be a flop.
I must admit I donÂ’t know very much about Hindu astrology
I doubt if this has anything to do with the Hindu religion. Stuff like manglik, karwa-chauth and other practices aren’t prevalant in South India. They seem to be regional rituals based on superstition than on any religious text.
Has everyone missed the irony of this?
In Lage raho Munnabhai, ABeta has a special role as the groom of the sardar’s daughter and the bride has some dosh (maybe manglik) that meant a short life for the groom if marrried. ABeta makes a little speech in the end, after sanju baba and gandhi intervene and he ocmes off all prgressive that if he is meant to die, he would rather die for marrying the love of his life or some such tripe.
Yet, in real life….
Am I mixing up movies here or did this not happen?
Yup. Being a resource Guju, my dad eventually got a computer program and he found a computer game he actually liked. Seriously, the old man was having a blast matching people up for the fun of it.
In terms of a lawsuit? I think it’s invasion on someone’s privacy. I wouldn’t like the precedent set.
Quizman: But aren’t the famed nadi readings from South India? Nadi Astrology is an ancient Indian method of Astrology to learn about one’s past, present and future. My friends recently trekked from Mumbai to a famous temple to find their destinies, which were written by Vedic “rishis” or seers. My understanding was these nadis were also based in Hinduism.
Here’s the story behind why astrolgers are never 100% correct:
“An astrologer once he went to Kailash and met Lord Shiva. He told he would like to have Darsahn of Both Shiva and Parvati. Shiva said Parvati is taking her bath. Then Brihaspati predited that there is mole on her thigh. Shiva surprised and told the Parvati that how true is Jyotish. But this made Parvati angry. She cursed that astrology is always half truth and half lie.”
Quizman: The south Indian version of Manglik is called ‘sevai dosham’.
Dabba, good point.
Dabba, thanx for the LRM bit, I’d completely forgotten that section of the movie!
I second Tara, we just have different names down south.
All hope is not lost.
I support the practice. I’d even like to donate some wood.
I would like to donate some wood too.
Sorry manju, that was left wide open. someone had to take the shot.
This gets pretty weird
Not minimal enough. Apparently the old guy got kicked in the head by a camel recently.
I must admit I donÂ’t know very much about Hindu astrology, and so canÂ’t say what role caste plays in these practices in general.
I don’t think it plays a role here. The groom – half Bong and half UP bhaiya – is prima facie “mixed” caste. The bride is Bunt. It just goes to show that orthodoxy can survive caste.
I believe the manglick has ruined many a good person; forcing parents to “settle.” When some scheming aunts asked me to prepare horoscopes when my wife and I decided to marry (we met on our own) I told em to shove it up their kundis.
The groom – half Bong and half UP bhaiya – is prima facie “mixed” caste.
Also, add Abhishek’s grandmother Teiji Bachchan is a Sikh.
Also, add Abhishek’s grandmother Teiji Bachchan is a Sikh.
Well Sikh and Hindu Punjabis very commonly intermarry. It happened right through the Khalistani agitations and continues today, even among some ABDs I know. I believe that Vikram Singh – the New York playboy – married a Hindu.
I wouldn’t make a sweeping statement like that. Chatwal is not a good example. In average (not flashy show-biz) Hindu families from India, even today marrying a Sikh girl can cause trouble. I know someone really well who fits this situation back home.
This “mangalik” bullsh$t is huge back home (may not be everywhere in India. Just like preety much anything related to India) Dont underestimate the power of the “mangal” 🙂
only for tamilians – i dont think its as prevalent in any of the other southern states
yup – i hadt even heard of manglik before and karwa chauth is not practiced anywhere in south (not in karnataka at least)
Shruti SinghÂ’s claim that this practice promotes untouchability?
she’s looking for 15 minutes of fame
all this manglik does seem pretty farfetched considering that these are educated individuals who are doing this… however i dont see no connection whatsoever as to how this promotes untouchability
and if it means that the married trees wont be cut down, let whoever wants to marry all the trees they want…it will help bangalore’s pollution problem a little
This is one stupid lawsuit where I hope the rich and powerful use their influence and come out victorious. I never heard of such stupidity. Just because the Bachchans are high profile folks, they should face a lawsuit? While millions of relatively obscure people follow these idiotic superstitions and rituals too? Why doesn’t she sue EVERYONE in India who does this? I agree she’s just seeking her 15 minutes of fame. And I don’t see any caste connection here at all. On that topic, Abhishek is 25% Sikh (not sure which caste), 25% U.P. Kayastha, and 50% Bengali (not sure which caste). Aish is 100% Bunt. This is the future of urban India…mixed marriages will be the rule.
Good golly, I thought this was all symbolic. Can’t believe I’m even asking this – the banana actually, er, made the trip up the canal?
I dont really care if the average person follows this tradition. But if you are one of the biggest celebrities in India, you carry a certain responsibility to choose a progressive path, because millions look up to you. If Aishwarya truly believes in this “manglik” tradition, then its ok. But if she is doing it just to be on the safe side, then its wrong because not only is she being hypocritical (that goes for AB too, especially after his Munnabhai cameo), but she is, in a way, encouraging others to keep following tradition without questioning it.
Now THAT would be horrible and humiliating for her (if true). It’s funny how orthodox some of these Bollywood families can be when most other aspects of their lives are so thoroughly westernised.
That can be argued. But I definitely don’t think they are LEGALLY more responsible than anyone else. As for the whole concept of celebrities being role models, I think Ice Cube summed it up best:
“Do I look like a motherf**king role model? To a young kid looking up to me – life ain’t nothing but bitches and money”.
I don’t agree with Ice Cube’s premise about the meaning of life, but I agree with the implied ridiculousness of holding famous people up as exemplars.
I wouldn’t make a sweeping statement like that. Chatwal is not a good example.
It is very common in Punjab, and around area.
PPPS: Since this thread is not about that, let focus on manglik issue.
Heck, if a woman can marry a tree, urn or a snake (another story), then people should stfu when 2 women decide to marry each other or two men do so.
Its not just double standards, but kinda mocking the life of a gay couple when you tell them that they’re below the level of urns,trees and snakes.
ashte!
BTW, Sepia Mutiny is referenced here.
the thought of the broken urn-husband is very sad, indeed.
and the concept of dosham exists, to my knowledge, in andhra as well. though i do think, in general, us south indians, particularly tamils, are more tied to the astrology bit than in other places – my aunt in madras times her entire days by rahu kalam. coming from a ridiculously superstitious family, i sort of run away at the mention of any of this stuff. but if it’s your thing, so be it.
and in my brief googling on doshams, i found that the manglik dosh might really mean sexual incompatibility.
Sikh-Hindu marriages tend to be among people within the same caste…as are most Sikh-Sikh marriages. Marriages ACROSS caste lines are less common, regardless of religion.
This lawsuit is what really bothers me. You know, I doubt whatever the Bachchans did was ILLEGAL…unless those particular rituals (marrying trees, etc) ARE against the law, I don’t know.
Back to the subject at hand…it is possible for males to marry a tree as well for manglik dosh protection. I cite my great grandfather and am proud to announce there is banyan in my family tree./bad pun. In that way, I don’t see this being anti-feminist and misogynistic because it is one of those equal opportunity marriages and one of the few in India that doesn’t take the caste of the bride/groom-to-be into consideration. Only its genus and species, really, and even then the marriage isn’t consummated…it’s more of a case of spiritual domestic tree violence where the curse of the marriage is transmitted onto an object that doesn’t have a high profile celebrity status. This can’t possibly be the only action that promotes untouchability and even then, I fail to see a very strong correlation. She’s marrying Abhishek even though he’s “mixed caste” as everyone has proven repeatedly in the posts above and marrying the tree isn’t to protect her from the fact that they’re different castes–it’s a superstition regarding the sanctity of marriage as a whole. The feminists have real issues to tackle and this is not one of them.
Dabba, AB 2.0 hasnt ran away from marrying Ash even after knowing about Mangal in Ash’s Kundali. His family was quite against the whole thing because of this reason. If He or Ash are trying to keep the family happy i see not much harm in it.
How come no one mentioned another movie of AB2.0 Sarkar where he mention he is an Athiest. Lets hold the actors responsible for whatever they do on screen. 🙂
what do i think? at least hindus don’t blow themselves up for their idiotic superstitions. nevertheless, it makes me to whince when i agree with my fundamentalist relatives who ramble on about how primitive and unfounded astrology is. then i whince against when they recommend drinking holy water that’s been prayed on for good health. who said there’s intelligent life on earth?
this is a ridiculous lawsuit, no matter what you think of the practice. how does it promote caste and untouchability any more than people advertising for spouses from a certain background, or caste-based reservations or other such practices? i also think calling practices like this backward etc. is problematic. if this is backward superstition, they why aren’t other religious beliefs and practices backward and superstitious? such as saying a mantra for some purpose or walking around a fire during a marriage or making the sign of the cross or saying you won’t be saved unless you believe in this or that or praying five times a day or visiting some saint’s/guru’s tomb? believing in a God in the first place is a superstition. why is one better than another? it’s all superstition. practices such as marrying trees are just not mainstream enough (anymore). but they are common in tribal communities and other communities. this sort of disdain for some of these practices reflect the tyranny of “higher” religions or the allegedly “higher” strata of religions. all religions – “high” or “low” have harmful and less harmful practices. the reasons for her doing it are debatable depending on one’s belief, but again that comes down to individual belief and that is her choice.
“and if it means that the married trees wont be cut down, let whoever wants to marry all the trees they want…it will help bangalore’s pollution problem a little”
actually practices such as belief in sacred trees and animals, symbolically marrying them etc. have played an important role in preserving biodiversity around the world, and especially in India. In India, some of the rarest and sometimes only living remnant of a certain species are often found in sacred forests – protected by a belief in their sacredness and various taboos against destroying/killing them. sacred forests are also an important source of rare medicinal plants. in indian states where there has been large-scale conversion to another religion that bans tree/animal worship or where Hinduism have become more Sanskritized etc., the percentage of sacred forests has declined, in addition to other causes such as development. sacred forests are important refuges and are a vital tool in conservation of species and in planning and designating conservation areas and corridors etc.
breaking news.
“Brown dudes all over the world are jealous of a Peepal and Banana tree”
LMAO! I’m not sure this should be the subject of a lawsuit, but several social commentators have written about the probability that the Bachchans have insisted on tree-weddings, given the unusual number of temple visits in the past year, despite AB’s airy talk about the engagement being “sudden” and the tree-marriage talk “media hype.” It might not be worth a lawsuit, but it lowers the Bachchans tremendously in my eyes. And Aishwarya, who could have any bloody man, tree or inanimate object she wanted, should have put her foot down.
In Hindu tradition, in order to offset the evil influence of manglik dosh, a woman should marry a peepal or banana tree before she ties the knot with her fiancé. Or she could even marry a clay urn, which should be broken soon after the nuptial ceremonies, signifying that the bride has become a widow, and the manglik dosh problem has been solved.
I wonder if Manju thinks whether this is a noble lie as well.
what do i think? at least hindus don’t blow themselves up for their idiotic superstitions.
Not even out of embarrassment?
I’ve watched the Hindi telecast of this “promotes untouchability” lawsuit, and I think the words used were misleading. Shruti Singh did not say this practice promotes caste untouchability. She said it promotes “chua-chhoot” (which can mean discrimination in this context) against manglik women. She also said that if high-profile people like the Bachchans indulged in such practices, common people would copy them and parents of manglik girls would have to arrange these bizarre rituals in addition to everything else. So manglik girls will face even more discrimination than they do now. Btw, I agree with those who think this lawsuit was filed for publicity. But she definitely didn’t mean ‘untouchability’ in the caste context.
I agree but from my experience it seems to be decreasing with each generation. My grandmothers do all sorts of things that, to me, are rather nonsensical. My parents aren’t nearly as superstitious, but they do silly things like move the car from the garage and park it on the street before a long trip because it’s drishti to leave after a certain time. In India, I’ve got cousins who’ve had arranged marriages but the parents haven’t exchanged jaadhaham (astrological biodata is the best translation I can think of) in order to avoid the very issues that are the subject of the post.
Lunatic, thanks for the clarification.
“People with manglik dosh are prone to multiple marriages,”
Was Ms. Manglik the JLo of 5000 years ago?
You mean 25% Punjabi? And has a grandparent who was Sikh?
Leaving aside the notion of whether marrying a tree to overcome manglik dosh is regressive or not, how do you file a PIL on this sort of thing?
My understanding of this sort of litigation is that it gives citizens an opportunity to petition the government for some sort of directive to change government conduct. But this suit is being filed in response to private conduct.
It seems completely wrong to me that state governments can be “badgered” into regulating private, and in the larger scheme of things, fairly harmless conduct. I mean, I can see the point of the government banning dowry as a regressive custom that is dangerous to women. But this seems to be taking it too far.
The government should not discriminate on the basis of caste, language, religion, gender, etc. But human beings will always discriminate, in their social and personal lives, and there is a limit to what the government should reasonably do in such cases, IMO.
Regarding comment #47,
I blogged about this whole Manglik business earlier. Being a Manglik apparently has nothing to do with caste. If you’re someone with a severe “dosha”(fault) in your horoscope, you’re screwed in the arranged marriage market. Untouchable may not be the right word. Ostracized or discriminated against are more like it. When celebrities like Abhishekwarya participate in these blind superstitious rituals, they’re doing a disservice to society and directly or indirectly, promoting these discriminatory practices. Since a PIL is filed by a member of the public directly in the court, the government has nothing to do with. This is a judiciary matter not legislative. I don’t consider it government interference in our lifestyle.
Since a PIL is filed by a member of the public directly in the court, the government has nothing to do with. This is a judiciary matter not legislative
Well, first of all, the judiciary is part of the system of government, even though it makes independent decisions, and has the right to review legislative action, so I disagree with the distinction you are making. If the courts in India were to begin sorting cases according to caste, that would be actionable as violating the constitution.
Second of all, the result of a PIL is the court directing either the state government or the central government to take action. In that sense, it absolutely invokes legislative conduct.
Should the government really regulate the extent to which individuals choose to believe in astrology, superstition, etc? At what point does the regulation become severe enough to be considered a violation of freedom of religion?
I’m not religious in fact I try to stay away from anything religious and have forced my parents to accept that and respect it. However my mother does follow some silly handpicked superstitions and out of respect I will follow them to make her happy. Things like buy a house facing east west, yes it does make practical sense that a north/south house won’t get direct sunlight.
Anyway it’s a tough call. I usually pick and choose battles with my parents now that they are much older. Some battles aren’t worth fighting. If my parents asked me to marry a tree I’d do it to make THEM happy. If my inlaws asked me to marry a tree and my husband to be didn’t have an objective opinion I might have a massive problem with it.
It’s hard to judge someone on something ridiculous like this. On one hand I’d say “WTF stand up for yourself and make your man stand upto his parents” but if you love someone you learn to bend a little and make parents happy too. I’d suggest the suecrazy person however to employ his/her energies in fighting bigger battles.