Following on Siddhartha’s discussion of the “Desi Angle” question, there’s an insightful piece in the Indian Express by Shubhra Gupta (thanks, SP) on a related question: is it possible that the only foreign films that have a chance at getting nominated for the Oscars are those that register as completely “other” to the West? This year, India’s official choice, Rang de Basanti, didn’t make the top 10, while the Canadian-financed Deepa Mehta film Water, did. (The final nominees will be announced next week.)
But Paint It Yellow/Saffron (that’s what its English-subtitled version [of Rang de Basanti] is called . . . didn’t travel too far down the road to the Oscars for that exact same reason: confused, contemporary youth exist all over the world. To a foreign viewer, the film is not ‘Indian’ enough, not in the same way as, say, a Water is: it is also, and this is not a well-known fact, very strongly reminiscent of Canadian film Jesus Of Montreal, in which a group of actors’ lives change drastically as they put on a passion play.
Incarcerated widows in a pre-Independence Indian ‘ashram’. Oooh, that’s Indian. Where else would you find little girls and beautiful young women and old crones with tragic backstories and cruelly shaven heads? It’s another matter that even today, Vrindavan’s widows lead lives of quiet desperation. It’s also another matter that major portions of the film had to be shot in Sri Lanka, which masquerades as Varanasi. But Water has the backdrop of the British ‘raj’, the horror of child marriage and ‘sati’, and brutal oppression. Can’t get better, can it? (link)
Gupta is right on many counts here. Rang de Basanti does have urban, middle-class kids speaking liberal amounts of English (as well as a white girl, speaking Hindi). What she’s overlooking, of course, is that while Rang de Basanti is a lot of fun, it just isn’t that serious a film. It doesn’t have the sense of gravity or “prestige” that makes a film a plausible Oscar contender. A much better choice, by far, would have been Omkara — which has the three A’s: it’s Arty, “Authentic” (though still legible to western audiences, via Othello), and most importantly, Adult. (I often feel that NRIs or ABDs should pick India’s official Oscar selections, since the Board that currently makes this selection clearly has no idea what it’s doing. Paheli?)
Still, I fear that the three Indian films that have reached the nomination phase over the years — Mother India, Salaam, Bombay, and Lagaan — do all fit a pattern: they focus on desperate poverty. While this is undeniably an important (and continuing) part of Indian society, it’s sad that only the exotic, impoverished India of street urchins or rural desperation is likely to make an Oscar-worthy film.
Someone might object: why should Indians care about the Oscars? No Satyajit Ray film was ever nominated (though I must admit I don’t know how many of his films were officially submitted). And isn’t this is the same Academy that gave Best Picture to A Terrible Bore A Beautiful Mind? But, whether or not it’s justified, there always seems to be a great deal of interest in the Indian media about the Oscars — despite rampant evidence that Americans simply don’t get Indian cinema.
Perhaps we should start our own awards? The Mutinies?
Ados Pados.
Angoor: Sanjeev Kumar + Deven Varma X 2 KIshore Kumar sings the song of his idol Kundan Lal Saigal. Albeit in his own ishtyle.
re: 192:
i’m not saying non-hindi movies are not nominated or that the regionalism doesn’t affect hindi movies adversely, so i should have clarified that. but whatever movie is nominated, there are always dissenters and regionalism does play a part. even the article that brown linked to says that and makes it a point to note that Hey Ram was nominated when the committee was headed by south indians and that the only strictly bollywood-based movie representatives were people who hadn’t made a a movie recently, therefore not very influential. even when hey ram was nominated, there was a minor outcry when it was suggested that the tamil version be submitted for the oscars and not the hindi version. i remember reading an article about it, with some film people implying the hindi version was more “official” and in the comments section there was the usual puerile fistfight between readers supporting one version or the other.
SemiDesiMasala,
Sorry, Sorry, I went home and checked.
It is Filmfare, December 2006 issue with AB 1.0 and AB 2.0 on cover. It is “The Great Legacy” issue.
For example, Sanjay Leeela Bhansali’s list is
Sanjeev Kumar + Deven Varma X 2 KIshore Kumar sings the song of his idol Kundan Lal Saigal.
Correction, that’s a C. H. Atma song, iirc. And Deven Varma sang it. I don’t recall a Kishore Kumar version in that film.
Amardeep, the problem is the Academy, or at least the Foreign Language film comittee, has a bias against Asian films. An acclaimed Filipino film, The Blossoming of Maximo Oliveros, did not make the short list even though it was an art house hit in America. And when this category became competitive in 1956 (previously, a Foreign Language film was awarded without a nomination process; oddly enough, Japan won three Oscars under this system), only one Asian film has one: Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. It is true that Japanese and Chinese films have been frequently nominated, but they have never won the Oscar, not even during the Chinese cinema heyday of the 1990s, when Zhang Yimou in particular had a hot streak going. Raise the Red Lantern lost to the horrible Mediterraneo. Farewell My Concubine lost to Belle Epoque, and who even knows about that film anymore? And Lantern and Concubine were very popular films at the time, which led to suspicions of institutional bias against Asian films.
Haha, SMers don’t sleep. There were a bunch of comments after yours. But even that shall pass. Check back at 3am and I will be the only one here. Muahahaha!
I like some things pointed out by sakshi #130.
Gotta agree with Preston about RDB and Water going to the dogs in the end.
I loved Chashme Baddoor and Jaane Bhi Do Yaaron and all those good films from bachpan!
Did anyone like the film Dev? I thought that was one “mainstream” movie that actually managed to carry off a serious storyline without getting too melodramatic.
The failures of commercial hindi cinema are obvious. The so-called art films are no less annoying. Especially the poverty porn made for the enjoyment of western juries.
Shodan, “poverty porn” is a nice term. 🙂
As Amitabh puts it, the Western audience is more interested in a parody of the “typical” Indian film rather than the real thing. That is why a cheap and shoddy film like Monsoon Wedding elicits more oohs! and aahs! than a really popular movie like Hum Apke Hain Kaun. The judges it seems don’t like to see Indians coming to terms with their problems and getting along with their life. They would rather still see the helplessness and misery grind people down. Now if Webber wanted to try his hand at an Indian movie inspired musical he could have chosen Shri 420, why did he have to produce a turkey like Bombay Dreams? Why ever shd Indian movies try to cross-over? Like it or leave it! And can we stop using the term Bollywood? The Indian movie business is much more than a pale version of Hollywood.
“Glaring omission – Sanjiv Kumar movies”
Yup. Silsila comes to mind. Another favorite of mine is Khilona, in which he plays a harmlessly deranged person who is turned around by the love and care of his hired nurse (Mumtaz).
A few more nominations for the top 10 and none of them “poverty porn”: 1. Garam Hawa, about the Partition – Balraj Sahni and Farook Sheikh 2. Pestonjee, about male relationship, if you will – Naseeruddin Shah and Anupam Kher 3. Albert Pinto Ko Gussa Kyon Aata Hai, about an “angry young man” – I believe Naseeruddin Shah 4. Nishant, not ultimately about poverty but how the human spirit of a kidnapped woman (Shabana’s) is not only broken by her captors but actually becomes quite adjusted to them – Amrish Puri, Girish Karnad, Mohan Agashe and a very young Naseeruddin Shah 5. Current, about the Indian bureaucracy – Om Puri 6. Ham Kadam, about a husband’s inability to accept his wife’s success – Raakhi and Balraj Sahni’s son (Parikshit?) 7. Junoon, about an obsession, as the name suggests – Shashi Kapoor 8. Jagte Raho, about the estrangement and isolation of urban life – Raj Kapoor 9. Apu Trilogy – made by Ray 10. Bride and Prejudice – just a great farce and proving once again that Gurinder Chaddha, with her wit and grasp of characters is the closest thing we have to Fellini. 11. Aandhi – a Sanjeev Kumar movie. About an ambitious woman (loosely based on Indira Gandhi) 12. Haasil, about India’s corrupt and violent politics and how it snares the youth into its web. A far superior “youth-disillusionment” movie than Rang De Basanti. (Don’t remember the actor’s name but the same guy who acted as the old man’s protege in Maqbool). 13. Piya Ka Ghar, about fanily and their support of each other’s needs – Jaya Bhaduri and Anil Dhawan
I better stop!
I guess all the great Hindi movies named by you film buffs proves one thing – there has never been a dearth of good Hindi movies. It’s just that the big blockbuster ones overshadow everything else.
Namkeen , Angoor and Naya Din Nayi Raat ( where he plays nine different characters ). Sanjiv Kumar and his tragicomedies! Honestly, I don’t remember any of them because I was very very young.
Quizzy, I stand corrected. C. H. Atma original. Sung by Sapan Chakravarty in Angoor.
Just a clarification. I wasnÂ’t dissing all films dealing w/ poverty. I was referring to crap films made by zholawalas w/ one cynical eye towards festival juries.
I have same problem w/ Vater. People are cutting it a lot of slack because of its fabled lightning rods for fundamentalists. It’s an average film that would’ve died without a whimper had the VHP clowns not intervened. To my gawaar eyes, Bimal Roy’s handling of “issues” seems more honest.
Kush, Floridian, If I may add to your lists. In no particular order and making no claims to their greatness. Just trying to widen the palette.
Kalyug: Shyam BenegalÂ’s ambitious update of Mahabharat. Not perfect, but worth checking out. Chameli Ki Shaadi: Funny and fairly realistic portrait of small town India. Sinhasan (Marathi): Based on two novels by Arun Sadhu. Dr. Jabbar Patel skewers Maharashtra politics. Almost every big-name Marathi star at the time acted in this movie. Pushpak: Silent film. Strangely, DVDs available in Hindi and Tamil. Tinu AnandÂ’s assassin is family favourite. Dir. Singeetam is a really nice guy. Half Ticket: For the sheer lunacy that
iswas 🙁 Kishore Kumar.I have at least 15 more, but must quit now. Enough thread-hoggery from me.
122 – well pointed out about sound. People forget that half of cinema is sound. While there is endless pontificating on visuals, lyrical etc, people just don’t appreciate what good sound design does for storytelling. Night Shyamalan totally rocks sound. For all its flaws, the most powerful/scary scene in The Village is when someone is looking down a hatch, and a flash of red swipes the screen. watch that scene on mute. It pales in effect.
There is a saying in Hollywood that in European cinema you can have a lingering shot of beautiful cumulus clouds in the sky, well framed etc. In Hollywood, if you have a shot of the sky, the next shot better be of a plane coming out of it, and there better be an explosion in the next shot. This is the Hollywood style of filmmaking where pace, plot and structure are valued over all else. Indian films are a different animal. There are songs so that people can go take a leak or smooke, we have an intermission etc. It’s a different model of filmmaking. When people paid Rs100 for a movie, they wanted an evening of it.
gaunwallah, i echo ur sentiment about the movies that cater to our bhais. People keep forgetting that there’s a reason why Indian muscials have withstood the onslaught of hollywood. There is no other film industry in the world that makes any fucking money outside of hollywood, bollywood and maybe hongkong.
If you watch older Hollywood movies, the acting is very stylized (read stiff, loud, melodramatic) much like our fillums. Their aesthetic has changed (note I did not use evolved), does not mean that ours must too. The pattern for European culture has been that the more sophisticated you are, the more aristocratic etc the less you express yourself and the more you keep things within. That is a mark of class and status. And this has enterred cinema and all else. Performances are raved for being subtle and minimalist which in real life are completely unrealistic, yet poeple have been told over and over again by critics and other opinion shovers, that THIS is reality. But ofcoure there’s the debate on naturalism vs realism in film. Different debate.
Let me give you an example. When people die in the West, you have a funeral party where people are somber and make small chitchat and eat and drink and wear a suit. In South India (T.Nadu for sure), when someone dies, their dead garlanded body is taken on a procession down the streets with a band and people sing and dance and scream and get very “unsophisticated”. Almost like a wedding because it is considered a joyous departure for the dead guy. This difference in culture/sensibility can not and need not be bridged. Another example, if they do allow a very emotional or cathartic moment for the protagonist where they are deeply moved and express it with tears, screaming etc, the visuals are over the top but they mute the sound and have a score. The belief is that the audience will supply that and make the drama more effective. Very few Indian movies do that. When our Hero is angry, he screams and yells and watch it in a movie theater in India and there will be claps and whistles.
Now, for all the atrociousness on Ash’s part in D2, very annoying for someone in Amreeka or even the South Bombay crowd, but for those in small town India and Matunga, Byculla and Bhandup, it is kinda “cool” because they don’t speak like that.
I am not condoning the tripe that comes out of India and all you southie lovers, that talk about how great Tamil or telugu cinema is, puuhleease. They are just as bad. While malayalam movies used to deal with better stories and themes (one must also consider the literacy of mallus), their cinema has such shoddy production values. A sophomore Tisch student could make a better looking film. Malyalam cinema has now taken leaves out of the tamil/telugu/hindi book and make the same mass entertainer movies.
The market is big enough for everyone. Make your D2 and SRK family/romance musicals and make your hinglish “realistic” movies and make ur oscar attempt porn. There is money to be made for everyone and an audience for all.
The board would however do well with a better sense of what movies have a shot in the Oscar run. The type of movies that will do well in Oscar season are so obvious, you can literally see movies get made with that in mind. Pay it Forward and K-Pax anyone. Ox Hoof.
While we can shrug off the craving for an Oscar as being stuck with a colonial mindset, the financial rewards can not be overlooked. Random Venezuelan girl and German aunty have told me how much they loved lagaan. And that was the first Indian movie they saw.
Mani Ratnam’s movies are just ok. He talks constantly about the song plays into the narrative, but they seldom do. There are some motifs that he repeats and that Indian filmmakers repeat.
The playful loving couple – Even Omkara had this where Gun chases Kareena. Trite scene but superbly staged. Long take in slo-mo. Very impressive. Mani Ratnam and numerous others do the guy and girl playful bit over and over again.
The bubbly herione – Mahima in Pardes, Kajol in DDLJ, Lead actress in roja, Ash in Guru. List is endless. This is the only female protagonist we can have.
You want the Hollywood versions of this? Ok,
Hero/Protagonist remains stoic in the face of epic tragedy and then goes to his room and cries quietly. What a man! Even Om Puri does this in East is East. Clive Owen in Children of Men, Any movie written by Akiva Goldsman (Beautiful Mind, Gladiator).
OK running out of time, will try and complete this post later.
10. Bride and Prejudice – just a great farce and proving once again that Gurinder Chaddha, with her wit and grasp of characters is the closest thing we have to Fellini.
Floridian,
I really like your list, and have seen all of the movies, you listed. A really good mix.
However, I completely disagree on #. 10. I guess it is a matter of opinion, and it is your list.
Bimal Roy spoke for common man, caste, farmers (Do Bigha Zameen, Sujata) more eloquently than Deepa Mehta will in 7 incarnations. Shodan’s link to Nasserudin Shah’s interview earlier in the thread is very revealing in that respect.
I think Dipanjan listed Khamoshi – a Sanjeev Kumar and Jaya Bahaduri’s beautiful tale about a deaf and dumb couple.
Kush: What’s your take on the recent “Bihar” film, Apharan? I am originially from Bihar. So it’s a little too close to me for an honest critique. While I am on Bihar, remember Teesri Kasam with Raj Kapoor and Waheeda Rahman?
What about “Mohabbetein”? (sp.) I loved it, despite that some parts of it seemed very similar to “Dead Poets Society.”
What’s your take on the recent “Bihar” film, Apharan? I am originially from Bihar. So it’s a little too close to me for an honest critique. While I am on Bihar, remember Teesri Kasam with Raj Kapoor and Waheeda Rahman?
I haven’t seen Apharan. Will try check it out.
Teesri Kasam is an amazing movie, the whole heartbreak and music. Raj Kapoor and Waheeda Rahman are A+
Shodan: Thanks for bringing up Kalyug. Its a v good movie.
Great list, Floridian. Nishant, Haasil and ‘Albert Pinto ko…’ are excellent choices. Don’t know if you have seen Mohan Joshi Hazir Ho!, an extremely funny satire, also by by Saeed Mirza.
Coming to think of it, hindi has seen some great comedies/satires. The best 10 off the top of my head, in roughly chronological order: 1.Chalti ka naam gaadi, 2. Padosan, 3. Chupke Chupke, 4. Golmaal, 5.Baton Baton me, 6. Jaane Bhi Do Yaaro, 7. Chashme Buddoor, 8. Mohan Joshi Hazir Ho!, 9. Andaz apna apna, 10. Jhankaar Beats
Hey I LOVE that movie! And I think it’s better than most of the TACK offerings Bollywood has on show.
To quote Nair’s response to people who think her films are a watered-down India catering to the West – ‘it’s because my roots are so strong that I can fly.’
Hum Aapke Hain Kaun was a remake of another bollywood movie “Nadia ke paar” and I would call Monsoon wedding a better movie than that any day of the week, considering it doesn’t try to choke you with 14 songs one after another.
well i agree wid this article completely. indian panel needs to use their common sense and realize this is not BIASED filmafare judging the awards and if you are going to try and win u need to please the taste of the west instead of pleasing themselves. RDB was horrendous choice but much better than CRAP paheli. .
Omkara or LRMB wud have been best choice.