Intentblog, the weblog aggregation of the Chopra spiritual-aspirational empire, is a strange mishmash of largely desi-written key-issues insight (Sepia friend Dave Sidhu), New Age preening (nympho-striver Saira Mohan), and general bloviating (too many to list), generating awkward, fawning comments, many of which seem to be from Polish guys named Marek looking for a date.
Amid all this are entries from the Chopras themselves, including the big man and his progeny. Of these, the oddly-spelled Gotham has earned some visibility for his own projects and initiatives beyond the family business. These include the Virgin Comics line of desi superhero tales, which I’ve seen a couple of copies of and look pretty damn cool, even to my untrained eye, and more dubious ventures like the midtown Manhattan “Kama Sutra-themed” K Lounge, which one astute Citysearch user reviewed as follows: “Pros: easy jersey booty; Cons: bad bartenders, bad jersey booty.” We’ve also mentioned Gotham here in the mutiny’s early days, smoking out various fans, haters and impersonators in the process.
Lately Gotham’s been waxing worried about the decline of desi cultural identity in the multiculti American stew, having traveled to the belly of the beast — the notorious SASA conference which Abhi roundly dissed yesterday — and been horrified by the brown binge-drinking buffoons and playa and hoochie wannabes he found setting the tone of the proceedings. Gotham was so alienated that he had to move out of the conference hotel to a more spiritually centered location. After several days of processing, he wrote this cri de coeur, and though I admit I’m vacillating in my tone here between snark and sympathy, I have to say I feel for the brother. Here’s what he saw:
I, myself, am only 30 years old but found myself so shockingly displaced from the South Asian community congregated down at the conference that I’ve been unable to articulate my thoughts the last few days and even blog about it. This is my best shot.
Thr primary focus, it seemed, amongst the over 1000 20-somethings (and yes, this is a broad generalization so take it for what it is) was oft articulated by the attendees themselvs, was to ‘get drunk and hook up.’ Not unlike, their other generational brethrens of any other cultural or racial background…
Not surprising in itself, he says, but here’s the real problem:
It’s no real condemnation to say that 20 somethings act like 20 somethings but the disappointing part was that there was nothing at all very distinctly Indian about what was going on at the conference. Save for a few Bhangara beats spun by the many dj’s (South Asian’s seemingly new career focus) at the various mixers, no one else seemed particularly interested in their cultural ancestry.
Not that I was looking for Geeta study classes or how I could refine my sanskrit, but I did, for some reason, feel a profound sense of disappointment at the total lack of cultural definition that I witnessed. On the one hand, we – or at least I do A LOT – proclaim the Asian invasion, the India boom, the reverse brain drain, going from outsourcing to sourcing, etc etc, and yet, none of the above seemed at all evident from what I say from this small sliver of the Indian community. In fact, if anything, it seemed to me that these young South Asians were emulating others – African Americans, Latinos, in an effort to hijack some of their coolness.
To wit:
I saw more young Indians aching to look like Allen Iverson or Shakira than I could have ever imagines. Not only that, but the ways the guys strut, the fact that they actually – seriously – refer to each other as ‘niggah’ – with no hint of sarcasm – belies an absolute cultural inidentity.
Gotham’s finding:
Something is happening to us in the assimilation process. A quick snap shot of this weekend would tell you that a generation of 20 somethings is struggling some to find that anchor that roots them with some sort of distinctive identity. Clearly the culture of sex and bling and gangsta has found a very willing market amongst young South Asian Americans. Clearly, we/they/whomever is running away from something in our collective cultural ancestry and apparently running toward something more culturally amorphous.
Damn! Clearly the brother was traumatized by what he witnessed, and he raises some substantive concerns about what it all means for the culture. But on the other hand, it’s clear he was dealing with an extremely skewed sample — college kids attending a conference notorious for the behavior he decries, sited in Miami no less — and I’d also be interested to know the socio-economic background of the attendees, to get a sense of how much this is an upper middle class suburban malady.
Far be it from my avuncular ass to speak for a generation I’m old enough to have sired, but I’d like to respond to Gotham’s worries with a counter-hypothesis. Maybe the kids are alright. Maybe, in fact, they’re just being dumb privileged kids like dumb privileged kids do the world over, and though it’s ugly to watch, it’s not that big a deal as long as they pay for the material damage and no one gets hurt. (Which isn’t always the case in these settings, of course, especially with respect to sexual assault.)
Frankly I’m more concerned about desi kids who don’t have the money for plane fare and hotel rooms, even if they had the inclination to begin with. The working class kids. And also: The Muslim kids, who face the worst of suspicion and discrimination in the American climate today. The Sikh kids, especially the boys, staring at a lifetime of towelhead insults. The off-the-boat immigrant kids with unstable visa prospects. You know, the kids with more serious issues to deal with than whether to do a tenth year of bharatnatyam training or what do to when you wake up hungover and soaked in your own vomit.
Now I know Gotham and crew check out our site, so brother, don’t take this the wrong way — I really do feel your pain, plus you’re a fellow New England Patriots fan, so you know you my nigga macaca, dawg — but at the end of the day, I think that handwringing over the cultural decay of the young and ignorant is something that we who are getting older can afford to forgo. Spiritually speaking, at least. Economically, of course, if a core proposition of your business ventures is to sell high-priced cultural authenticity products to well-off young desis, then you’ve got a whole ‘nother problem.
Analogies / parallels We do have our own gangsta rap in the form of Bollywood. Shitty attitude towards women. Check. Materialism. Check. Glorifying thuggish asshollery. Check.
Yet, people like Hrishikesh Mukherji and Sai Paranjpe managed to make good movies.
JoAT– I think the concern is that a whole genre isn’t dismissed because of the most repulsive and yet commercially successful section of it. A bit like knocking Yanni because of Thelonius Monk (or vice versa) – both are known for ‘weird piano music w/o lyrics’ but equally worthwhile?
From this WaPo article-
Janeofalltrades – Question, do you know anything about the music industry, hip hop or even youth culture? No seriously, i ask you, you don’t have any kids? your niece and nephew are very little can’t possibly be into youth culture? do you work in a highschool or participate in youth groups? Do you have any background in the music industry? do you know any artists? Do you know how it works…really works? Have you ever lived in the ghetto…anywhere? Do you even know black people?
Honestly if you did, you wouldn’t have this attitude. You talk down to me like i’m some ignorant un-educated ass, without any background.
Its easy to pass judgement with no information living in your sheltered 3k/month apartment in midtown.
Anyone have a comment on the statement Nas made on his latest album that’s he’s “not going back to the ghetto”?
You are trying to get me to love music I hate? And that makes me closed minded? Well so be it then 🙂
🙂 Cool.
Wow, there’s so much I want to add to this discussion, but I’m already late for class. (Where do you people find the time?!) I will say that cocopuffs, Camille, Neal, and Siddhartha have once again proven themselves as masterless samurai, especially with:
Word to the third! And don’t forget to give props to the Bay’s own Zion I, always keeping it real and fresh.
No, I’m trying to get you to see that the stuff you hate is a very small portion of a huge, diverse, and complicated body of work. But whatever, peace.
103
Why all the haterade at JOAT? So she’s got some nice stuff. So what. Quit hatin’.
I know she can take care of herself and all but I’ve seen this before. Young, angry, early twenties/late teens, resenting her. And she actually has a good blog that lets you get to know her in a ‘real’ sense.
Personally, I can’t stand when Indian guys act thuggish. I don’t like it on Black people either, but it seems extra silly to emulate an aspect of Black culture that is so unclassy. I’m not looking for an Indian who listens to veena music while coconut oiling his hair, but I sure as hell don’t want a pimped out, ghetto looking guy who speaks of me in demeaning, misogynistic language b/c it’s cool. I’m not your bitch, ho or nigga. You’re still just as fake as ever, and I respect you 100x less.
Hey, I like JoAT! I just disagree with her here.
Neal, I didn’t mean you. I disagree with JOAT here as well (on some things), but the commnets in #103 are just off the damn chain.
And people in glass houses…I’m sorry I can’t tell you the hysterical irony of that pathetic speech.
It’s a discussion on music, get a grip I suggest you either play nice or expect a put down in return for doing it in the first place!
Its funny because from what little I know of JOAT, that is one person I would say actually knows how to knock dudes the f out
Hip Hop is very diverse type of music with many different type of styles.
But the fact is that the bling bling thug ho’s and bitches may be only the small part of hip hop, it still is the most popular form of hip hop. It is also the form of hip hop that is the most popular among a large % of young south asians males in Canada and the United States. And some of those young South Asian males take it to far when they try to live that lifestyle.
And Neal the feeling is mutual. I’ve been visiting your blog since you first started visiting here 🙂 and enjoy it quite a big.
And I do know that the stuff I hate is a small portion of a large genre and my problem isn’t with the large genre it’s with the popular stuff out now.
I understand. Again I immensely dislike the popular hip hop music out right now for the message in it and don’t think that in any way even closely qualifies me to comment on ALL hip hop. Am I allowed to hate the current commercial degenerating hip hop music and blame it for some of the bad behavior emulated by the youth who listen to it or no?
Awwww damn I’m all of 5’2 don’t think I can knock anyone. I need to work on being all girly and less thuggish 🙁 I leave that honor to Coach Diesel who can knock anyone out with all she brings to the table in terms of knowledge including actually physically kicking ass!!
Babygirl-I’m 5’3. That don’t matter. I gots the 42 inch chest and agility! It’s us shorter people who can dominate. Check me out boxing under the name-The Terrorist at a Longshoreman’s Hall near you!
I’m actually learning a lot about being girlier from JOAT’s blog. You had some real good tips a while back on brands that I keep in mind. I need help in that department. No wonder my kids call me coach diesel.
Coach if you ever come out east please please let us east coasters know so we can come support. 🙂
OK Coach you teach me how to kick butt and I’ll teach you to put on gloss hehehe
Oh. My. God. That would be so great. My dream is to get an Atlantic City fight. Then someone like you or Anna can help me do my shiteous hair for the afterparty.
JOAT, its your demeanor, moreso than anything else
Oh, BTW. I am east coast. I’m repping the dirty south now, though family is in Jersey, Brkln and Queens.
Damn Sahej I’ll work on that.
Coach you are on. I’ll even do your PR / Publicity 🙂 and forget me you got all of SM rooting for you. You say when where I’ll be there.
JOAT, I mean it in a good way, just mean I don’t think you need to prove your bonafides as regarding your authenticity
In case anyones interested…Womens World Champions, 2006. Champs for four weight classes were Indians.
Jersey City represent! Risible, you just climbed up several notches in my book.
I always rep for JC. And thanks. Let me know if I start slipping a few notches 🙂
Sorry, but can I just bring up that many older-gen Indians would decry the fact Gotham changed his name from his very classical Indian original one, “Gautama,” to a more amorphously cultured one? For that, they’d call HIM the ABCD — which he’s essentially calling the younger gen.
Janeofalltrades –
you targeted the wrong person, hysterical irony, you crack me up. give me real facts, not just you don’t know what you are talking about, does that validate your point? Play nice or expect a put down? i disagreed with you and instead you put me down by discrediting everything i say, you don’t even respond to the comment… way to be desi, you’ll be a great aunty someday.
Did you say this? i say its ridiculous, any every other new yorker i know would say its ridiculous, infact you are an abomination to what new york city represents. So discredit me all you want, but your previously mentioned statement is terrible.
honestly you have taught me one thing, perspective. I can now see why other parts of the country can hate the elitest liberal north east.
Whoa, I don’t agree with JoAT all the time, and definitely not on the topic of hip hop apparently, but that was way harsh and unnecessary. I would definitely prefer if we could all keep it chill and respectful.
Camille –
I understand what you’re saying. I would prefer that. But where i grew up, you don’t respect people that don’t respect you back. So if JoAT is going to run her mouth for no reason, she’ll hear it from me, specially if she’s some elitest who is extremely condescending.
I’m only doing this at work. Shit, i could really give a fuck less, i live in new york so i’m offended when JoAT types say blanket statements saying bs about her experience in the city.
I mean come on, there is too much fodder, “The life of a self proclaimed Fashionista & Foodie”, Jack Bauer Quotes, if thats her real picture, goddamn, would any of you take advice on fashion from that? It does shed light on why she’s so mean.
Just because of a disagreement over hip-hop you decided to stoop to this? What would shed light on why YOU’RE so mean? How was she disrespecting YOU?
Now, if you want to talk about exploitation and hyper-sexualization and crass materialism in popular culture, we can do that. There’s plenty of material to support the claim that our culture today is saturated wth those messages, and I would agree with you that that is cause for deep concern.
Well said, Siddhartha.
Honestly, I don’t understand the fuss about “offensive music” as long as it’s just expression and not a reflection of the artists’ real life behaviour. I listen a lot to Nine Inch Nails and a lot of people have misconceptions about their music primarily because of explicit lyrics. Some portions could be easily misconstrued as misogynistic to those who are unwilling to take a deeper look. One of my main grouses about popular Indian music is the lack of personal expression (Amardeep blogged about it recently, I think).
Btw, to those are into hip hop and Nine Inch Nails, do check out NIN’s remix of Puff Daddy’s Victory.
Oh jeez get over yourself and move on already.
I think I know how to settle this dispute.
In the meantime…cocopuffs,where is your blog and picture so we can look at you and your life and make an assessment.
I’ll pass CD I can’t stomach unnecessary rabid behavior online much less in person. I’m sure with that gangsta personality he gets his ass kicked on a daily basis. He certain he wouldn’t want to add ‘got beaten by an auntie’ to his list of gripes.
Right. And these young hiphop desis he is repelled by are also actually aping their white peers, the wiggers:
BTW, does anyone really think that the frat culture is morally superior to the hiphop culture?
The rough-n-rowdy was really more of a joke. USA boxers aren’t even allowed to fight on that card. Did you see my earlier signature? Brown girls box yo!
First of all, excellent post Siddhartha. I read it earlier today and have been pondering this subject. A few comments:
(1) I find the debate regarding hip-hop that has been going back and forth to be amusing. The “anti-hip-hop” folks come across as Uncle and Auntie Ji’s. They remind me of my mother, who once, postured herself like a b-girl, threw her hands around like she was rhyming and said “Btch, Mother Fucker, *sshole” and after I was done laughing, asked, “What, isn’t this what your happy listening too? Your music is just swearing and someone sounding like their going to the bathroom”. The “pro-hip-hop” camp makes the same tired distinction between conscious hip-hop and pop-hip-hop, calling up the names of Mos Def, Talib Kwali, Common et al, saying they are the gate keepers of “real hip-hop”. So your telling me you don’t bump any Biggie Smalls tracks? Being a hip-hop head myself, my sympathies lie with the latter side, but I think their is a distinction between the merits/aesthetics of a particular musical genre and the adoption of certain cultural stylings which is being ignored in the debates above.
(2) The subject of Gothams post had occurred to me before, though I did not come to the same conclusion as him, rather I was fascinated with this development. My younger brother and his friends I think would seem similar to the college students Gotham was dismayed with at the SASA conference. They wear the latest in urban fashion, speak in “ghetto-slang”, and drive cars with big rims. What I find fascinating, is that they have found ways to maintain, elements of their culture, even with all their urban trappings. They get high and play basketball, but when its prayer time, they run in and pray in the mosque. Their language is peppered with Urdu/Arabic terms, so I kid you not, one of them said, “Wallahi, Niga, wallahi” or translated, “I swear to Allah, Niga”. And their cars have that distinct achar smell. I think it’s fascinating, because I am observing an entirely different way of dealing with growing up Indian; an entirely different balancing act of Indian and Islamic traditions with the culture they find growing up.
JOAT – lol, you crack me. why are you stooping to my level…talking about beating me up. BTW i don’t feign being a gansta at all, i just don’t take shit from random people.
anyways much love, my 9am just ended with singapore, time to blaze.
seriously, i’m not hating at all, you made my day fly by, thanks JoAT!
sid, this is hilarious — thanks for the post!
SASA conferences are meat markets. they always have been! it’s just like going to any desi college party — hell, any college party, period.
but like you, I have more faith for my peers…
I couldn’t do it even if I tried. And since you are all up in my business about how I am disrespecting you let me draw your attention to YOUR comment # 71 out of nowhere attacking everyone on the thread when there was a perfectly normal discussion going.
So next time you want respect you might want to start off with a little less assholery. The gantsta shit is just old.
Cocopuffs, I just caught up with the last few hours of this discussion and I’m appalled. For the record I completely disagree with JOAT here as well but there are ways to express that respectfully. You are way out of line with a number of personal insults here and I’m asking you now to cut it out or be excluded from the discussion. You asked me for advice earlier about books to read, my advice to you is not about what to read but about how to behave in a public forum. With respect and dignity. If you want to talk about it some more feel free to email me off-thread. I’m happy to help a young brother. But here, keep it courteous. Thanks.
Well said.
Maybe a lot of hip-hop lyrics reflect real life, but one does not have to glorify the basest of human behavior. As Juan Williams says
But music is an altogether different thing. Can one enjoy music as pure sound and swaram, without caring much for the lyrics, if it is not agreeable as perhaps some songs are? Hip-Hop has something to it that seems to attract a wide variety of people, around the world.
Here are a couple of Tamil ones, from of all places Malaysia, linked at an earlier thread here!
Yogi B n Nachathira Feat Lock Up – Madai Thiranthu
ChakraSonic-Qurbani
As for SASA conferences, perhaps it is the wrong place for cultural networking and high brow activities?
This seems to be true…and those Tamil rap videos are intense…I never knew anything like that even existed. I’ve visited Malaysia, where Indians (mostly Tamil) are 8-10% of the population, and very visible, but I never saw any hip-hop trappings (granted I was there for a short time). I did see a lot of temples, and some religious street celebrations, as well as a wedding procession. I do know that they’ve been there for generations yet preserve the Tamil language pretty well (same in Singapore, where I had some delicious south Indian food). Does the Tamil diaspora get the press it deserves?
I don’t remember if this video was featured on SM before, but here’s some desi-inspired hip-hop (if you want to call it that) from Karmacy.
Bohemia the Punjabi rapper (I’m not a fan of this stuff but just throwing it out there).
I haven’t been to Malaysia myself, but know many Malaysians. I don’t think there is a hip-hop lifestyle, just a musical influence and the mimicking videos to go with it. Tamil is an official language in Malaysia and Singapore and is still in use. Tamil culture is thriving and as is the case with diasporas, certain festivals that have dimimished back home, thrive well here, like Thaipusam, which takes place later this month and the one in Batu Caves is big.
Here is a funny clip were the guys are acting cool and hip-hoppy until the grandma shows up. Happy Deepavali
Rasputin
Thanks for linking to those Youtube clips–they were awesome! The Happy Deepavali was too funny and the Paati was adorable and i don’t believe that i’ve ever heard Munisami shortened to “Sam” but it makes perfect sense 🙂
I couldn’t make out all the lyrics on the YogiB N Nachathira track–but it was still impressive because Tamil is difficult to rhyme.
Hmmm… and they looked quite “Rude Boy – Gangsta” down to the Ecko garb. But it was also more than that–watching those vidoes enforced my belief that those of us who are Dravidian must certainly share a significant gene similarity with the peoples of Africa, East Africa in particular… Anyone else feel this way?
Siddartha – you’re absolutely right. I’m just a jaded misguided youth, who’s concepts of fun parallel steve-o and johnny knoxville. The truth is that i am an asshole. I agree that what i said was out of line and uncalled for and mean. The reaction to JoAT’s initial comment has nothing to do with her but really with my own dealings with elder desis. All my life, older desis, now (30-40) have pretty much played that card, sorry but you’re young and naive and i’m in Harvard Law or Columbia Business, etc, basically implying that us kids didn’t know shit. Same with uncles and crap, you’re opinion didn’t matter until you had a PHd or run a company, even if the topic was video games or something that had nothing to do with their background. Subesquently after this reproving itself nearly everytime, i pretty much think that most older desi people are patronizing assholes(maybe they’re not, maybe its just to me because i don’t fit some cookie-cutter mold), and 90% of the time it sticks. You, don’t fall into this category, so i respect and appreciate what you say. So i apologize to you and anyone else i offended.