If you’re a brown, black, diasporic, immigrant, mixed-race, or otherwise socially and culturally hybrid, globalization-era American, it looks like someone is seriously getting into the 2008 presidential race who has more in common with you, identity-wise, than any previous presidential candidate. This is going to be interesting!
Yikes! So this is how he intends to impose his morality on others. The religious right is much safer. Since they believe Jesus was a capitalist, they naturally want to leave everyone alone. Laissez-faire.
I highly recommend reading Obama’s first book “Dreams from my father” if you’d like to swoon more about his intelligence, eloquence, and compassion.
If he runs, I’ll vote for that in a minute. If it’s a Gore-Obama ticket, I’ll gladly vote for that too. It would be nice to see someone (of any color or gender) in office who approaches the country with unification and strength in mind, not further devision and preying on weakness and differences.
Obama ’08!
I long for a non-religious serious presidential contender.
Keep longing.
I’d settle for a handful of atheist senators, but even that doesn’t seem to be happening in a hurry.
An atheist cannot get elected dog-cathcer in the United States. Sez Harold Bloom – though there is a black Buddhist in Congress now.
Does this really scare you AMFD? What legislation is the religious left going to pass to impose their morality on others? Or are you just concerned about a gerneral culure of religiosity?
Yes, I am more concerned about a general culture of religiosity. So maybe scary is not the correct term. I guess I find his religiosity more nauseating than scary per se. His preacher talk reeks of charms usually found in snake-oil salesmen and I am turned off by the uncritical, unabashed public promotion/expression of his faith.
Manju-
Well if you want to take that position, fine, but he’s no more “dangerous” than any other Democrat.
I was probably being a little too cryptic, Neal. My point is that many politicians beieve in things for religious resons but these things nonetheless serve secular purposes. The religious right is not something to fear that much when you look at it this way.
BTW, this is VERY applicable to MLK.
Well, but I’d draw a distinction between politicians using religious faith to justify a secular policy (eg: civil rights, national healthcare, invading a country to “spread freedom”) and politicians making actual conversion to the faith by non-believers a policy goal. It’s that use of the government as a direct prosetylizing tool that makes me fear the “religious right”.
I agree with you in theory, but in practice where is this happening? The only thing I can think of is examples(like voluntary bible study in public schoool) where government as a direct prosetylizing tool for secularists and the religionists want equal access…but are denied b/c of a particular interpretation of the establisment clause. (I agree w/ the religious right in this regard that to deny them access is actually a violation of the free excercise clause.)
Anyway, the single most galvanizing issue for them is abortion and roe v wade. w/o that, there would hardly be a religious right.
Evolution? Government information on sex, and sexual education being curtailed? The age of the Grand Canyon not being handed out? Bible groups meeting in very important Pentagon spaces, and high ranking officers who are part of those groups making disparaging remarks about non-believers?
Living in NYC you’d never know what goes on. Come on out to the “real America” and you’ll see a lot more of it …
Tis applicable to Swami Vivekananda also.
It’s that use of the government as a direct prosetylizing tool that makes me fear the “religious right”.
I agree with you in theory, but in practice where is this happening?i>
Why, in Kenya!
The herders of this remote mountain village know little about America, but have learned from those who run a US-funded aid program about the American God.
A Christian God.
The US government has given $10.9 million to Food for the Hungry, a faith-based development organization, to reach deep into the arid mountains of northern Kenya to provide training in hygiene, childhood illnesses, and clean water. The group has brought all that, and something else that increasingly accompanies US-funded aid programs: regular church service and prayer.
Evolution?: agree w/ you on this. should not be taught in public school. but parents should be allowed to opt out of public schools with vouchers. as it stands, christians are being forced to finance evolution. and that’s unamerican.
Government information on sex, and sexual education being curtailed?:no problem with this. why should they be forced to distribure info they disagree with.
The age of the Grand Canyon not being handed out? I gotta think more about that one.
Bible groups meeting in very important Pentagon spaces, and high ranking officers who are part of those groups making disparaging remarks about non-believers? this can be serious. but the military, by its nature, must accomodate religions. the soldiers have their lives on the line and many can’t do that w/o religion.
Nice slam. ouch!
I went to a public school in Florida and there was a church-sponsored “required assembly” every month or so. They would always be on ostensibly common values (eg: don’t do drugs/join gangs/skip school/chew gum, kids), so dissent was muted, but they’d always end with big ‘shout outs to my man JC’. There were also teacher or administrator-led prayers before lunch. You were not required to pray, but lets just say that those of us who didn’t were definitely able to make easy eye contact across a huge room of bowed heads.
On the national level you’ve got even more examples of this, with Virgil Goode providing the most recent outburst. The many, many commentators on the national scene who talk about America being a “Judeo-Christian” country are also good examples. One great instance very relevant to browns was the massive backlash against the first Hindu to give the opening prayer in Congress. I just don’t see the religious left reacting this way.
I have to say, I’ve never seen the kinds of “enforced secularism” so many people talk about. I know those cases exist (ACLU usually defends the Christian student too), but it’s never been relevant to my life. Quite the opposite.
Wha…?
How did you read my mind?…
Bring on ’08. Does anyone feel though that running for Vice Prez this time next to Clinton and then going for Prez after that would have been better?
Just a bit worried that this might not be the best time for him to be President, and would be great if he could win not just one but two terms. Just thinking long term…
While everything about how he presents himself is pretty solid, from a political standpoint, he really hasn’t done anything significant. The guy is pretty green and has moved from a state legislator to a federal senator pretty fast.
With all the flash and bang, I’d like to see more substance in his positions and actual things he has accomplished as a senator/legislator/politician.
I’m not saying he isn’t a capable guy or doesn’t have the potential. Just that it’s too early to tell how much quality is backing up the projected image. Even though he may be a person of color, a minority, or someone who looks cool, personally, that isn’t enough for me. I’ve always been wary to be caught up in identity politics based upon race/color/party for various reasons, one being that it is quite easy to get caught up in the whole white/vs every minority thing without even knowing it until it’s too late.
Strategically, being a media darling this early doesn’t bode well, either. Guys who flash this early tend to fade later on. In the next 2 years, he may accomplish things of substance, but it’s awefully hard to do so in the US Senate (cushiest job in governance).
This next election is going to be a slugfest, especially with the top three candidates being senators (McCain, Hillary, and Obama).
I see your point risable. But the govenment finances all sorts of secular groups that have their own agenda, some of them anti-religious, and one i remember that went as far as submerging a crucifix in urine. so if government is going to finance such groups, they must do it viewpoint-neutral or not at all (unless the viewpoint hinders the service). religious groups are just getting their fair share of the liberal expansion of government.
“Very few white people make “being white” a major part of their identity, and society tends to frown on the ones that do (for good historical reasons).”
History doesn’t stand still. It’s written by the winners, and eventually revised by the losers. It is always a work in progress, and we are all progressors. “Culture” is something you do not see when you are sitting in the middle of it. You don’t know it’s gone till it’s removed, and nature does not tolerate a vacuum. That hollow, homesick feeling, stranger in a strange land. So many immigrants have felt it. Stranger yet, it is also the experience of those who have always lived here. We native born so are so rarely challenged to look at America from without, we accept what we have received and do not know what it really is, and yet feel it is not what we think. Every single person who has ever lived in it, will have a different take on it. Being no reliable apologist for America, I’ve seconded countless laments about the “McDonald” aspects of American “culture” taking over. But since when did a hamburger and a clown signify culture? The golden arches just don’t do it for me in France or Hong Kong, or the Cape, or New Delhi. On the other hand, the benefits of modern plumbing are pretty welcome. Banners, real or metaphorical, in post-911 America have left many cold, and Obama may be an antidote. Culture is about being very aware of where one comes from. Aware in a deep and factual way, not just mythological. The misunderstandings that fly when ethnic groups talk across the lines–I have recently emerged from just such a meeting–are astonishing. It’s been an interesting topic. Bring on Obama. As I said, he could only be an improvement on what we’ve got now. If he can live down the drug history — and why not, others have — he may be a viable candidate.
The american religious right is a travesty. Jesus taught worldly renunciation, yet these evangelical frauds insist that “God wants you to be rich”! These guys worship Mammon, not the God of Jesus. Here is what Jesus taught:
“Blessed are you poor, for yours is the kingdom of God,”
“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth,”
“go, sell what you have, and give to the poor.”
“it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
And Jesus taught charity towards your fellow man, not selfish greed. The righteous man is judged by such acts:
“I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.”
It is about time someone exposed these right wing “christians” for what they really are. If the candidacy of Obama accomplishes only that, it will have done a great favor to America.
Sigh, well then I’ll put it to you again, inside the beltway: what makes something “white” culture, as distinct from “American” or “Western” culture, which claims to be multiracial/multiethnic? Examples?
OT:
Is -> this created by a regular reader/visitor here? Just curious.
not by me. in case anyone suspected.
This is kinda bitchy, but I just COULD’NT RESIST a bit of cut and paste.
From the group ‘conservativeindians’…Cheers Boston Brown…
a woman and a person of color on the same ticket? is america ready for it?
(i’d rather have obama as president….can’t stand hillary)
I think the correct question is..
Is America ready for a short president?
The question is rhetorical of course, the median height is 5’11”. Before we start talking about the first black or female or eskimo or ninja president, how bout a few more short ones?
Or another political ‘family’, again?
Bush Sr. (4yrs) Clinton (8yrs) Bush Jr (8 years) Clinton (say if she wins, min 4 yrs)
It’s already been 20yrs of executive leadership between two families, tack on another 4-8 if Hillary comes in.
Dunno, but I’m kinda tired of political families. I’m not a fan of it in India and it doesn’t appeal to me here, either.
Bush Jr. is definitely not Bush Sr. Hillary ain’t no Bill, either.
FRESH MEAT. WE WANT FRESH MEAT!!!!
Oh man I would vote for a ninja President in a second.
“a woman and a person of color on the same ticket? is america ready for it?”
Not hardly…..Chickpea…Let’s never forget. Bush did not get elected in a vacuum. His (Rove’s)consolidation of corporate, bible, and neo-con interest was sadly masterful. Those of us who pray for a more liberal day and age have to be cautious…There is some rumblings in the country for change but we can’t assume that it is greater than it is. Now if Iran comes into play 🙁 We might see some anger. But…neocon rhetoric still has a stifling hold on electoral bodies in the red states. We ignore it at our peril.
Vikings and Pirates will be in the mix, too.
What would really throw voters a curve ball is that if the ninja was cope chewing texan (not from any movie), the viking was an african american (NOT the NFL Vikings), and the pirate was a japanese american (NOT a baseball player).
Who would the desis vote for????
“Very few white people make “being white” a major part of their identity, and society tends to frown on the ones that do (for good historical reasons).”
Being white shapes my identity whether or not I want it to. That’s all I’m going to say about that because I don’t want this to turn into a repeat of the Amit/Aasif/Barack thread. But I am consciously and continually aware of being white, and what it means, and how I read to other people. And what I am “expected” to do as a white person, and what happens if I do not fulfill those obligations.
(It also means, btw, that I’m going to retreat to lurking again for a while; I’ve been reading SM for months in prep for an upcoming semester in India — a better gauge of what’s really going on than Bollywood films, right? — and I jumped out last week to start posting, and have realized that for a little red-headed girl who’s not at all desi, though trying to become educated, it’s better to watch. Thanks for letting me play.)
Re: the thread topic: Obama w00t!
I’m very curious as to what causes this, or even, what exactly do you mean by it?
What this country needs is a president who isn’t soft on Decepticon.
Red headed girl. Another good place for all things Desi. Good luck w/ your adventure.
Wrong DJ Drrty Poonjabi. What America needs it the great “Megatron” as it next leader.
I’ve always kinda been a fan of Deceptacon.
(Man, with all the stuff I want to respond to in this thread, I come up with that?)
So much to respond to in this thread, but let me start with this.
Oneup sez:
I’m really not sure where this comes from. His first book, his memoir “Dreams of My Father,” is subtitled “A Story of Race and Inheritance” and deals quite a bit with his own identity struggles as a “black” man who grew up with his white grandparents. His newer book, “The Audacity of Hope,” has an entire chapter, some 50-odd pages, that discusses the issue of race. This is someone who worked as a community organizer in South Side Chicago before going to law school, and who turned down prestigious clerkships and lucrative job prospects to return to the South Side of Chicago to work on voter drives and community outreach in the black community there. He started a civil rights/voting rights practice there, while representing a largely black district in the South Side in the Illinois Senate. Despite his fancy degrees and such, I’m quite sure he has plenty of thoughts on the issue of race — in fact, he’s written about them.
Now I don’t doubt that the way the press covers what he says might suggest to some that he doesn’t discuss race — unlike many other minority candidates, he talks abaout all kinds of issues, not just minority issues. That, in fact, is a huge part of his appeal. And obviously, Obama is different from most other African-American politicians. He’s of course biracial, and he grew up with the white part of his family. Also, his Dad (who he never really knew) was African and not American, and so his experience is different from that of the “traditional” African American politician. But to suggest that he has been mum or might not have any thoughts on the issue of race is way, way off the mark. The press may not cover his thoughts on the subject, but he’s written about race in two best-selling books, so it isn’t like he’s dodging the issue.
I think even more annoying are questions like “Is this country ready for a woman in the white house?” or “Is this country ready for a black president?” which really should be considered outright politically incorrect. Its insulting enough already that these are legitimate problems even in the 21st century.
Anyway, down with Clinton, Obama all the way!
Funny picture of obama in highschool:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/1/18/181128/082
Why? On the Republican side people are wondering if we’re ready for a Mormon President or a thrice divorced one. The electorate sure as heck isn’t ready for an openly atheist one – that’s the line of death for a candidate. Certain attributes matter to voters. It’s a fact, whether bigoted or not.
In Hillary and Obama, democrats have two great VP candidates, people who can ease into presidency after getting people use to them in higher office. Unfortunately I think neither of them can win the presidency untill unless republicans keep digging a bigger hole for themselves. If they do, then 2008 will be an excellent time to push the barrier for minorities/women.
I was away at work and could not post. Here’s my response to HMF’s question at #131.
(deep breath…) okay.
To many white people, being “white” means being “default” or being “normal” or being “right” or whatever it is that causes discrimination, insensitivity, etc. and the perception of so-called “non-white” people as the mysterious/dangerous/ignorant “other.” We see that all the time, and people who aren’t white notice it and feel it a lot more than I do.
And there are people, like myself, who understand that being white is not the “default;” that “white” is just a name attached to certain people in the middle of all the people who make up America and who make up the world.
So if being white is not simply being the default, then what is it?
Once it is removed from the idea of “default” or “normal” (with the word “non-white” then meaning, at least subtextually, “non-normal”) — once that idea of white/non-white is removed, what’s left? A word — white — that does not even remotely come close to the color of my skin. There’s no word in the English language for this particular color, because for so many years it was simply called “flesh-color” (like the Crayola crayon).
Still, okay, I’m white. Can’t ever change that. But once it’s removed from “normal” or “standard” or “majority,” it leaves a void behind. And so… what am I? As other posters have mentioned, there’s no real shared culture or identity. There’s what’s defined as Western culture, sure, and the mish-mash of advertisements, fashion, and TV shows which make up American culture (which, of course, until recent decades featured solely white faces and even now is not very integrated or multiculti) — but that’s not something I can put my back against.
What I mean to write is that since I’ve figured out that I am one person in the middle of a very large world and that being white does not entitle me to delude myself that I am “normal” or “default,” I’ve got to figure out something else for being white to mean. Perhaps I don’t; perhaps I can just be a person, for better or for worse.
But still, there it is, on my face — and so when I stand in a classroom in front of a group of students, for example, I’ve got to figure out how to relate to them as a white woman, particularly when saddled with a language that defines half of them as “non-me” and trying always to negotiate around the fallacies of English, trying always to draw everyone in, to include all experiences and identites. I’ve also got to figure out how to be a white woman amidst the rest of the world, and what that means — and very soon, how to be a white woman in India.
Shodan, I am very familiar with desipundit. It’s almost as awesome as SM! 🙂
American politics bores one to tears. Why can’t it have a serious but colorful proto-fascist party, as in France?
Instead we are invariably numbed by two hyper-religious wankers who claim they talk to God and whose positions on social and economic issues are essentially half a degree apart on the political spectrum.
Imagine how gussa Amreekans would be if a candidate went to the beach in a bikini. Sacre bleu! I don’t know who’s best but go Segolene!
RHG:
Thanks for your response.
This admission alone is rare. I remember telling a white girl in college that I liked rap, she replied with, “eww. yea but you like normal music like Live and red hot chili peppers too, right?” You didn’t mention the privelaged implications of the “default-ness” of being white, and there’s no need to go into it here, I’m sure you’re aware of it.
This reminds me of a Malcolm X anecdote, a white coed followed him from Boston to NYC and asked, “I’m a good white person, who’s not prejudiced and racist, and agree with a lot of what you say, what can a good white person do?” Malcolm replied, “Nothing”
After his separation from the NOI and formation of the OAAU, he later regretted the remark, he felt a white person who genuinely was interested in a fully colorblind society, devoid of institutional barriers could educate their own people on some of the truths you’ve touched on. I’m not one to define anyone else’s reality, but perhaps that’s what being white could mean.
Just wanted to reply to DTK:
Acknowledging that you are part black and talking about how race has affected your life is a far cry from actually having plans and policies that will make a difference in the black community. The liberal policies that democrats put out to help the poor do not neccesarily help poor black people. The legislation the Dems hope to push in their first 100 hours is an example of this. Moreover, one could argue that liberal policies actually hurt black america more than they help. Is he just going to do more of the same?
Registering people to vote is great… but there are a lot of other black owned groups out there doing the same thing. Lots of black people go into civil rights work… again, not that special, and not that much of a change in what we already have.
Not to mention this whole “omg, look at what I gave up to help you degenerates! Just be grateful!” attitude is disgusting. While I’m sure that Senator Obama doesn’t think like this, it sucks that you do.
I think its great that he talks about issues that aren’t specific to the black community (I think more black people need to think about politics outside the black box). But he definitely doesn’t talk much about the issues that are. What’s his stance on affirmative action? School choice? I know he wants welfare reform, but what’s his reform plan? Like I said, if I wasn’t black I’d feel fine about voting for Obama… but there are WAY too many black people at the bottom of the ladder for me to fawn over any candidate that isn’t actively trying to help. ESPECIALLY a black candidate.
Obama may be part african, but his heart is in the old country, which is why he sleeps with..not brown or white..but black. As a proud Black Man, thats good enough for me.
I mean. what does a Black Presidential candidate have to do to convince blacks that he is the real deal? Promise to dole out reparation payments for slavery. Dont get me wrong, IMHO Black African slavery was the mother of all crimes against humanity. The Jewish folk had only 12 years of an attempted genocide..we had 400 years, plus Tasmania.Even as I write our continent is being ravaged by greedy, desperate thugs from all over the world, including the continent itself.I hope Obama wins the Dem nom at least..that would send a tough message to everyone that one day the worm will turn and the African will have his day.
RAMIIE
My fear, people will get carried away by the “Change” talk.. and I say carried away, because honestly I do not see substance I see talk with Barrack but I’m still hoping there is substance.. the fear is that Barrack wins the nomination and in the end it’s McCain against Barrack and the next thing you know McCain wins because, believe it or not, there are individuals here in this country, the reigning superpower of the world, where people will just not accept a black president with the middle name of Hussein.
—Barack Obama