[Note: I was trying to use the “embed video” feature now offered by IBN-CNN in India, but it was taking way too long to load. So here’s a link.]
“This is making the South Asian women’s circles headlines,” advises an anonymous tipster. Thanks for alerting us to the extremely ugly incident that took place during New Year’s Eve at the Gateway of India in Mumbai, where the crowd gathered in the same way it does in Times Square in New York City or similar plazas worldwide. Only here, there was an attack on a young couple in the middle of the crowd in which a mob of about 60 men molested the young woman for ten minutes with no one coming to her and her friend’s aid. A photographer for Mid-Day, Shadab Khan, witnessed it all:
On New YearÂ’s Eve, I was supposed to click pictures of revellers at the Gateway of India, but what I witnessed instead has left me shaken.
A young woman was groped by some 60 perverts in plain public view, while her male friend, who tried to protect her, was pushed aside violently.
The 10 harrowing minutes the helpless woman cried for help as the perverts abused her, shook my faith in the city I have lived in all my life. I thought such things happened only in Delhi. I was clearly wrong.
I was at the place at 11.35 pm with my camera, taking pictures that captured the mood of the New Year celebrations. I was atop the temporary watchtowers erected by the cops.
After a few minutes, as the crowd grew larger, I could vaguely make out a youth aged around 25, surrounded by a mob of around 60 to 70 people.
The perverts tore off her dress in the middle of the teeming crowd When I zoomed in, I saw the girl of about the same age being groped by the crowd.
The girl was screaming for help but her voice was drowned in the commotion. Her companion tried to shield her but found himself helpless.
The presence of 50-odd policemen at the site did not deter them. Even as she cried pitifully, I saw them pull at her dress, leaving it torn from below the waist.
In the middle of this pushing and shoving, the girl fell down. The wild men, taking advantage of her, pounced on her with even more venom. After an agonising 10 minutes, the two managed to extricate themselves from the crowd and leave the venue.
Numerous Indian outlets have now picked up the story. I’m waiting for Mumbai’s strong female bloggers like Uma and Sonia to contribute their thoughts; it seems they are still on vacation. Amit Varma has an item on the incident, and picks up on some idiotic interpretations being distilled by so-called experts:
The Times of India brings us some bizarre reactions on the incident. First, Dr Mahinder Watsa, “an expert in sexual medicine,” says:
This is a rage attitude of devil-may-care.And then, Dr Harish Shetty brings capitalism into it:
[T]here is this global selling of ecstasy pushed forward by a market-driven economy, and so, the line of demarcation between fun and ecstasy is getting blurred. Hence, we find some youngsters indulging in such behaviour.
As disgusting as incidents like this one are, it’s just as repulsive when the (men in the) so-called “responsible media” deploy horseshit such as this from (male) so-called experts to explain away actions that are just plain violent, ignorant, criminal and wrong. How is there ever going to be any progress?
Sorry AMFD that comment wasn’t referencing you, I actually agreed with your POV. It was regarding comments made earlier.
JOAT,
Agreed with your larger point, the issue is not competition, it derision. Any time a news like this come out of India, sweeping generalizations are quick to follow, Trollish comments like those steer the discussions away from the main point of the posts and it becomes a bitchfest of 400+ comments.
I observed groping and touching women couple of times while traveling on a bus in Hyderabad. Once a guy in 40’s was constantly touching a girl of his daughters age, he looked like a government official or something like that. After looking at the girls eyes, I wanted to slap that guy.
I came across this blog some time back. It has some amazing but sad stories.
I dunno, JoAT. I agree that when other national examples are brought up to minimize the magnitude of the crime, it’s a bad thing. But I have a feeling most of these other examples are being brought up to counter ideas like this:
I mean come on. The question this story raises is: how can we stop the abuse of women in crowd situations. Pretending it’s ONLY a problem of India, or of sexual repression isn’t going to lead to a real solution (any more than the ranting about globalization or “natural” male behavior quoted in the original post). When people start pretending this is only an Indian issue, it’s natural to point out the many examples of this deplorable behavior even in sexually liberated countries.
Ultimately, we’re talking about mob violence, and mob violence CAN be controlled by effective crowd control techniques and policing. That’s where we should be looking. What broke down here? Did the police choose not to respond or were they not informed? Diving into generalizations about Indian men all being latent sexual perverts isn’t going to solve anything.
I agree wtih you. Over the years I myself have indulged in the bitchfest about these incidences and that goes back to my original reponse to the post…what gets resolved? What can we at large as society do about this problem? What are the true viable options that we can explore that understand culture and all things considered to address these incidences? What can I(we) do to help? Outrage needs to be turned into something substantial. Does anyone know of any grassroots level change that anyone is doing in India about this constantly nagging issue?
I’m sorry I disagree with you. This just happened to be a mob this time. This happens everyday in India in various capacities where men harrass women in general. My irritation is when we make the issue about the mob it takes away from the general disrespect towards woman and apathy towards the law that is demonstrated in these incidents. This isn’t about a mob, this is something that happens to so many women everyday in India.
There are organizations coming up slowly but surely, one such organization is jagori
Exactly so! I hope people don’t lose focus on what happened to the girl and instead focus on what capacity it happened. Mob or not, this should not have occurred at all.
Are you sure this isn’t about a mob?
Incidents of sexual violence take place in mob situations all over the world and in every culture. Why is this one supposed to be emblematic of Indian culture as a whole?
I’m not trying to downplay day-to-day sexual harassment, groping, and other invasions of personal space and privacy. Those are real and they need to be addressed. And I know they’re part of the culture (although again, not just of India but of a lot of developing societies). But don’t you see a difference between an creepy asshole groping a woman on a train and a group of 70 men ripping off a woman’s dress in a public square?
Don’t get me wrong. I hope that groups rise to fight the attitude of male entitlement that marks groping and harassment as acceptable or “fun”. I think that ideology needs to change. But a) it’s not unique to India and b) this incident sounds much more serious than simple (though obviously still important) harassment. I would say that 70 people attacking one woman certainly qualifies as a mob.
Destroy arranged marriage and this will be considerably reduced.
To Shodan
Actually, I do differ with you very strongly on this and I will stand by my sweeping generalization that the sexual harrassment in India is the worst of all in the entire world. I have lived almost half my life in India and the other half in the US and have traveled extensively alone in Europe, Asia, and the Americas. I can assure you that I have not faced even 5% of the sexual harrassment I have faced in public places in India anywhere else. Pinching, hooting, catcalling, rubbing, chasing, you name it. I had to change colleges due to the level of sexual harrasment on the local bus and for an entire year my mother had to pick me up at the bus stop to prevent this asshole from following me off the local bus and making disgusting noises and whispering disgusting stuff at me.
Please…the level of sexual harrassment in India (particularly the North) is astounding though one of the worst episodes happened in Goa when I was 13. Just thinking about the kinds of things these guys have done to me still brings feelings of shame, disgust, violation, and uncleaniness.
sp
Because this happens ALL the time in India whereas its an exception in the west. Again stop it. Stop making this about what happens elsewhere. The daily harrassment groping all those things are not the same in so many other conservative cultures. It’s unheard of in the middle east where you can lose a hand for doing so. Why isn’t it happening there? Isn’t that culture more conservative and repressed?? General disrespect towards women, general disrespect towards the law, general no one cares attitude IS a big issue. The fact that majority of these things happen because guys know they can get away with it is a problem.
I don’t see a difference between this mob behaving this way and the day to day perverts. What is the difference? One is worse than the other? I’m going to assume you aren’t implying that.
Awww Kurma you can’t make that kind of a statement and not elaborate. It’s now the fault of arranged marriage?
Sorry, Jane. I have to run. I will be back to write more. Every Indian man has the guarantee of a marriage (and sexual partnership is definitely a part of the package). Being a nice guy is not a requirement. Having an income is sufficient.
What I’m suggesting won’t stop mob incidents as horrible as this one which can happen in any cultural setup because this is just a bunch of people being savage animals. But it will severely disincentivize publicly harrassing women if you are going to be identified. If the arranged marriage guarantee is removed, being infamous as a groper/sexual harrasser pretty much assures your loserdom forever.
This isn’t right either. I also don’t agree with the idea that women should have to carry mace, pepper spray, or a gun, either (the first two, coincidentally, have to be used at a minimum distance of 3-5 feet, which doesn’t usually work when someone is groping you). The underlying issue is how people view women, what shit they they they can get away with, and what it means to create public spaces where women are respected enough to be left alone. I think folks are right in pointing out that “Indian men being perverts” is an unfair and overbroad generalization. That said, I think it is definitely more helpful to think of what people can do to change how women are treated. Law enforcement is clearly not enough – they care no more than the next guy, and other women are complicit in saying, “Well, boys will be boys.” This is a big load of bullshit, and then to top it off, women are given the onus of having to defend their right to public space by learning how to beat the shit out of someone, and also, to have to worry about some crazy guy reacting. While I do think Vi’s mention of Hollaback was useful, would this really work if there is no shame in molesting women because they’re seen as low, subhuman, existent for male pleasure, or not worthy of protection?
Apparently the Mumbai police have detained some of perverts involved in the incident. Here is a link to the news article in Mid-Day http://chalomumbai.com/news/city/2007/january/149547.htm
From the article linked in #34:
Camille,
Incidents like this may not disappear overnight, till it does I feel it is better to be prepared, that is why I mentioned how women who take Bombay locals are prepared. The change has to be the youth; the onus is on them to speak up when they see something like this happen.
Why do Indian men harass women? Everyone has a theory, but I suspect that the root of the problem is that women’s lives are changing. Women are increasingly venturing out of the home, taking jobs, wearing Western clothes, going to college. Many Indian men feel threatened by this, and sexual harassment is the easiest way to put a woman in her place, or as Gupta puts it, “to assert their traditionally unquestioned male rights.”
The above is nonsense. Women in India have been going to college and working outside the home for decades particularly in the urban areas, where the harrassment is the worst of all and has been going on for decades. Men should be now used to women going to school, college, and working.
The following is key….
Or maybe, just maybe, Indian men harass women because they can.
plus the fact that terrorizing a girl/woman is very cutely (NOT!!!) referred to “eve teasing”. Minimize the activity and therefore a woman who protests is a ball-breaker plus she asked for it by traveling in a crowded bus/train or walking in public.
Can you tell my blood is boiling?
sp
Not true. I don’t believe that parents (alright, most parents) will knowingly and willingly marry their daughter to someone like that. I do not think that every Indian man has that guarantee, especially today.
Vi:
I disagree. Those parents will be more likely to want to marry off their perv-of-a-son to some unsuspecting girl through an arranged marriage. I don’t think the answer is ending arranged marriages though. It is about the perception of women in the areas where these women are being harrassed plus the advantage to the pervs of being anonymous enough when the train unloads to grope a woman or two before disappearing or before we even know what has happened.
The scale is what makes it different.
A murder committed by an individual is not “better” than a murder by a lynch mob. But they’re different. They reflect different attitudes in a society. They result from different underlying psychology. And a society has to react differently to stop them.
Again, I’m not trying to excuse behavior, or to imply that the day to day harassment is irrelevant to what happened. But to turn this event into an indictment of all Indian men is just getting off topic. When you start out with a generalization you make it much harder for people to come together to actually solve the problem.
To me, just saying that this is a problem of Indian men is nothing more than a variant on the “boys will be boys” attitude. It completely frees individual perpetrators from any personal responsibility and instead slurs the whole population. And it’s untrue. Not every Indian guy thinks women are nothing more than sex objects. This is a problem of specific, disrespectul Indian men who think they can get away with this stuff. And yes, I DO think that this kind of disrespectful attitude is present in many societies, particularly the ones still transitioning from patriarchal societies. Southern and Eastern Europe after WWII was notorious for this kind of behavior (not the riots but the groping, harassment, etc…). Japan was notorious in the 70s and 80s. India is still opening up to cultural norms which value women (which is a VERY GOOD thing, obviously), but it’s a transition and it’s taking time. And there definitely does need to be more local organization to stop this stuff from happening. But don’t dismiss the whole of Indian culture or the values of all Indian men based on the fact that some assholes think they should be able to take advantage of women.
I don’t necessarily think the threat of being “infamous” would necessarily stop the problem. However, Kurma does actually have a very good point, inadvertantly. Removal of the guarantee of arranged marriage would (theoretically) give guys a greater incentive to develop the relevant social skills required to form a proper, mutually-respectful relationship with a woman which would hopefully culminate in marriage. Generally-speaking, you basically need to be a nice guy in order to achieve that (assuming the relationship isn’t based on more dubious foundations) and you also generally need to step your game up in all aspects.
You sure as hell ain’t gonna get anywhere by being a chauvinistic misogynistic jerk with serious “boundary issues” and such a staggering lack of respect and empathy for women as your fellow human beings that you think sexually assaulting them (either nefariously on the bus etc, or in the mob scenario described above) is an acceptable way to behave — especially if you don’t have the safety net of falling back on a marriage arranged by Papa and Mummy.
I think a key issue with respect to Indian men in relation to say US/western men is repressed ego driven perversion…Within their families Indian men are both infantilized and worshipped…a pretty lethal combo…producing a wicked god-complex and sense of entitlement…this in relation to a largely non-existent (except among the upper classes)dating scene…and the need to ‘get some’ by these little prodigal sons gets really, really nasty.
I realize we are going to in circles Neal and I don’t think I have any more to say to you than you might to me to change either of our minds. Having said that…
At what point does it become a problem? Is the current saturation of these “some” assholes thru the general population not enough to question ourselves? Shall we continue to defend the men at large like they are all in jeopardy of somehow being assholes themselves? Because obviously the men at large who you imply aren’t assholes aren’t exactly doing anything either are they?
Sonya, I hear you and have witnessed same things youÂ’ve mentioned. I think Indian men do it because they can get away w/ it. Barring a few cases, expats donÂ’t have any problems keeping their hands to themselves. When thereÂ’s no fear of reprisal, people do vile things.
JOAT, A few days ago you made an unfortunate comment on black men and everybody jumped on it. I thought it was a poorly worded statement, but understood where you were coming from. The comments made on Indians on this thread are far more offensive and needed to be called out. Why is New YearÂ’s Eve any different from Woodstock, or any of the above-mentioned incidences?
Coming back to your what can be done comment. You can start by working in your sphere of influence. When friends and aquiantances understand your zero tolerence policy, they generally refrain from doing that type of BS around you. I know, like a Band-Aid to cancer, but better than nothing. The women police cells of Mumbai and Delhi are doing admirable work, but are underfunded and the department is mired in politics. This lady has done a lot to address this issue.
Re: Arranged Marriages. Guys who canÂ’t get married and have nothing to lose are likely to take out their frustrations in far more violent ways. Nange se to khuda bhi darta hai. A crappy deal either way.
OK check this out. I think it’s so eerie and just plain ole bizarre for all of them to pose like that together as if they are part of some “team”!
They had problems like this in Japan and what Japan did was make buses and trains that are for women only and I think it’s about time India considered this. Reading the stories on this bored about how women have to just stand there and take it really irks me. This isnt the best solution, but forcing women to take this abuse until the society changes is just plain barbaric.
If NRI want to help India then there should be a month every year, where we all go back and just ride on buses all day and bash these perverts in the face when they try to touch anyone. It really is a win-win situation because we get to take our bulit of tension of the daily grind over here and help society out over there.
Every Indian woman who goes to India has this same damn story of harrasment, so all of you people screaming about the “generalization’s made on this bored are wrong” well then why dont you send your sister’s or mother’s on a all day bus ride in India. I bet you wont do it.
They had problems like this in Japan and what Japan did was make buses and trains that are for women only and I think it’s about time India considered this.
There always have ladies compartments (mahila compartments) in Indian trains for ever. That is only a short term solution.
Early in the comments people raised two issues that are key: a) in India, one gets away with such behavior, and b) mob control, and that need to improve now.
And I still stand behind my statement even if people found it offensive though we can rehash it on that tread and I will not be repeating it here. It stems from my own experiences and I don’t really care if someone thinks I need to be PC about them. Not going there.
Secondly what are people saying about Indians here that is so incredibly offensive? Really? Most of us here are Indian, this is a Indian (SA) blog, what is so wrong about discussing the ills within our own communities? I’m always baffled about this. Anytime these type of incidences happen such arguments completely take away from the gravity of the current situation. The frequency of these incidences and the general level of disdain is not something to be defended. Instead we get all hysterical about it because we think we need to defend all Indians. I’m Indian, I’m embarrassed by these events. Do I think all Indians are like this? Will I hate Indian and Indians because of it? Will I stop being Indian? Come on! Can we get past that or do we need to ride that directional thinking ALL the time?
This is the general problem. I’m in NYC. I have never in my immediate realm ever experienced this with my own friends. I don’t know any men personally who behave this way or I’d break their legs believe me. The problem is that most civilized society that makes all this noise and feels defensive about this situation is in my shoes. Doesn’t know anyone personally, doesn’t happen around them so they don’t realize the gravity of the situation. Afterall it happened to someone else, not their problem!!
And I can control myself but how do I work on changing the mindset of the people around me? What are the arguments of logic to be employeed? A family priest tried to pull a fast one on me (sexually) at a wedding some years back. I made a lot of noise about it and even published the account. What happened to him? Nothing. He is still the ‘man of god’ and nothing has come of it. People, including some in my family, tried to convince me that I was seeking attention and was sexually frustrated because I was older and single! Yeah very Monsoon Wedding and I’m a tough cookie but then what? How would I have changed the mind of the society at large to see the ills in this man? And chances are he’s doing this to other innocent women even if he didn’t succeed with me.
Shallow,
There are ladies compartments in all Bombay local trains too, your solution of all the NRIs going to India a month every year and bashing the crap out of every perve is comedic and hardly constructive. Shodan in #75 puts the solution far more eloquently then I could.
Looks like emotions are more at work here! Not a very constructive argument going on here, stop discussing and go do something about it.
Absolutely nothing, even if whiteys like PG come on the scene and jump utilize it to further reinforce their racial biases. But if the entire society is at large defunct, what may you and those in your camp offer in terms of solutions? If as you claim, it’s an inherent societal problem, then the solution must be equally implementable at the societal level.
The middle east has its fare share of “isolated incidents” as well. Shazia Mirza, a pakistani brit comedian talks about her experience, in all places, Mecca, [link]
I agree. And brown (#80) it’s not limited to trains. It happens virtually everywhere (case in point the subject of this article). And even on trains (yes, in the ladies’ compartment) it has happened and will continue to happen. I’ve heard stories from my cousins who live in various parts of India.
It’s unheard of in the middle east where you can lose a hand for doing so. Why isn’t it happening there? Isn’t that culture more conservative and repressed??
Somebody, I know, she is an archeologist with specialization in Middle East. She and her fellow American/ European counterparts have had horrible stories about public sexual harassment, that would look India very rosy. Typically, it is not the Bedouins who keep a professional distance.
But Sonya has a point too, and I have heard same opinions from others.
It is just poor law enforcement on a daily basis in India. It allows boils down to shakey infrastructure and mindset ……be it roads, airports, harassment.
JOAT, No point in dignifying their remarks by repeating them. In general, they do it because theyÂ’re Indians type of thinking irked me. They do it because they can get away w/ murder is closer to truth. I brought up that other thread just for comparison. The same people who got all PC there seem to be asleep here.
My solution was obviously from a manÂ’s POV. Men tend not to show their true colors in presence of women they know. A general observation, not implying anything about men you know.
What can a woman do? You raise a great question. I wonÂ’t insult your intelligence w/ glib answers. I can offer an aluminium bat for you leg-breaking activities though.
I’m out.
Peace.
Or violence. Whatever gets the job done.
The same people who got all PC there seem to be asleep here.
Very true, and an interesting observation.
Meanwhile, I will smoke my pipe, and talk about ills of India in a wine and cheese party tonight.
Vi,
I know it happens at places other than trains and I donÂ’t mean to imply that just because there are ladies compartments in local trains the problems go away. We all know the problem exists, in India as well as the west, I wish we (including myself) spent more time on finding a solution rather than beating non-issues to death. If some of you can point me to any other organizations like Jagori, I will be happy to contribute in whatever little way I can.
Also look at projects which try to educate young men from becoming the subjects of such discussions. If their parents don’t teach them how to treat women someone has to do it, the point is that it has to be learnt or the animal instincts prevail.
Karma,
The snark is uncalled for, I was being honest. I am not sure what your problem is, try and do your bit and it will be a step in the positive direction.
In case there was any confusion from my comment, I was asking for organizations that other people know of, not necessarily organizations that work to empower women.
Jai Singh, why do you say “inadvertantly”? What you wrote there is exactly the kind of thing I meant. Look at places where women can fully marry and where it is okay for a woman to be unmarried and you’ll see men falling all over themselves to be all sensitive and stuff.
sonya:
This is part of what I’m referring to. There IS social approval for this sort of behavior.
As Kush mentioned above – one DOES get away with such behavior.
In reference to Vi (#69) and Meenakshi (#70): If behavior like this is known to the bride’s folk, sure, it is a black mark on the resume. But,
1) This kind of stuff does not show up easily on the resume. Job title, caste, religion, income, skin color, height, weight, family name, connections are usually what are judged.
2) People are much more likely to enquire about the bride’s “character” than the groom’s.
Even if things are known, which of the following sounds worse to a girl’s parent? a) “He dropped out for a year in college when he was 18 because he had these feelings for a girl. He was madly in love with her and (and somehow) couldn’t focus on his career. He’s back in college now and is not a bad student.” b) “He spent a year groping women on buses and trains when he was 18. He doesn’t do it anymore now.”
My belief is that the latter is more likely to be overlooked as “youthfulindiscretion”.
Look, I ain’t suggesting that arranged marriage be done away with since I know some very good people (men and women) for whom it’s impossible to find the right partner (because of their rather unusual requirements) without some kind of arranging mechanism. All I’m saying is that IF arranged marriage is gone (Heh, heh, do I sound like OJ Simpson yet?) this issue will be considerably reduced. When I say “arranged marriage”, I don’t mean it in a narrow, Indian cultural context. Here are the key things in the alternate scenario I’m wishing for.
1) Women (and men) have the full power of decision on whom they will marry. 2) Men and women get to know each other before they marry (such behaviors cannot remain hidden) 3) If a woman stays unmarried for a long time or forever, that is socially and economically okay.
See how men behave in places where these three things are present.
You know what else will go down? Female infanticide – the train of logic on that one is easy to trace too.
Sorry, in the first paragraph there, I meant “places where women can fully decide whom they marry”.
The generalization I was defending was:
This is almost (although not perfectly) an empirical statement. There is no speculation about why it happens, but there is no doubt (at least to women who have been in India) that the everyday experience of going out in public, as it pertains to “eve-teasing,” is completely different than in the US. So I find it a far more defensible statement than something like “Indian men are all perverts.” The “perverts” statement is a better metaphor for your attempted witty counterexample of “stop thinking like a chick.”
Secondly, all the phrases you quote from the “analyses” offered by “experts” are totally useless. Even if true, they are so general as to be useless in practical terms. They suggest no course for change. If you are content with that so be it, but surely you ought to be able to see why some others might not have patience for such “commentary.”
There should not have to be a necessity to “know how to handle such people.”
Brown, This is a good place to start. My mom used to work there.
Thats the usual tu quoque argument used by desi apologists whenever any of India’s glaring problems and failures are pointed out. Another example: point out the humongous numbers of beggars in India and invariably some “clever” desi will point out that its a universal problem, he has seen panhandlers even in America. As if the scale of the problem in India is comparable to that in America! It is this sort of chalta hai attitude that accounts for India’s miserable conditions. How can you change if you dont even acknowledge you have a problem? And the ones who highlight the problems and the self-deluding lies are ganged up on as “trolls” who need to be banned…..
Thats the bottom line. The Indian system of self-government, blindly aped from its colonial british masters, is fundamentally flawed. A corrupt, ignorant and incompetent government, judiciary and bureaucracy that is unable to enforce its own laws has no right to be in power. India’s miserable socio-economic conditions stand as proof that it is a failed state.
Only in the short term, Shodan. The market adjusts.
Come on, lay off Janeofalltrades. Can’t you see she’s not saying this shit happens in India because of Indianness? All I’m reading in her comments is – don’t equate what happens in India with what happens in other parts of the world with comments like “It happens in all cultures”. It IS different in India. I largely agree with her comment #62, although I don’t know anything about the Middle East.
Shodan,
Thanks a lot, this is exactly the kind of organization I was talking about.
Deepa,
I agree that there shouldnÂ’t be a necessity but the problem exists so it is better to be prepared.
I don\’t mean to trivialize sexual harassment faced by women in India but since people are discussing reasons and some made statements like Indian men are perverts I want to say Indian women do it too given right circumstances, a woman started poking her elbow into my groin in a crowded bus when I was standing near hear seat, in another instance again in a bus a group of teenage girls started giggling and teasing me and one intentionally sat on my lap when bus went over a pothole or something, and there are some more that happened in public transportation, market places, work place. So I want to say that people(men and women) will try to have fun, sexual or otherwise, at other\’s expense if they can and if there are no dire consequences for the behavior.
Has anyone noticed that the 5 men being detained for this so far (from the article that JOAT linked to in #76) are all Muslim?