I’ve long been fascinated by the demographics of vegetarianism. I’m an omnivore, but one who eats a lot less meat than my peers, so they confuse my insistence that we order a vegetable dish (when eating out family style) with an unwillingness to consume animal flesh.
In the UK, it seems that vegetarians are smarter:
… those who were vegetarian by [age] 30 had recorded five IQ points more on average at the age of 10. [Link]
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p>Although this study is flawed by its overly broad definition of vegetarian:
Twenty years after the IQ tests were carried out in 1970, 366 of the participants said they were vegetarian – although more than 100 reported eating either fish or chicken. [Link]
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Unfortunately, they don’t report adjusted scores, so really what they’re talking about here is an unwillingness to eat beef, which makes them … well, like many Hindus I know.
With the definitional caveat, in general, this is what they find about veggies:
Vegetarians were more likely to be female, to be of higher occupational social class and to have higher academic or vocational qualifications than non-vegetarians. [Link]
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p>Researchers find something similar in India, where vegetarians are more likely to be female and of higher social status.
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p>Vegetarianism is declining in India, to the point where vegetarians are now a minority, with only 40% of the population. This is apparently a major shift from the recent past.
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p>The older generation remains more vegetarian than the younger, women more so than men, Brahmins more than other castes, and religious Hindus more than non-religious Hindus, Muslims, or Christians.
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p>This is a seismic cultural shift for India. While India will remain far more veg friendly than the US or UK for a long time to come, I’m wondering about the cultural ramifications that accompany the situation where vegetarianism is associated with a narrow minority. Once upon a time, you could not get meat on the streets of Ahmedabad, now the road by IIM is lined with little 3 wheelers selling chicken.
What happens to Indian society and culture when it undergoes a fundamental shift in its eating habits? How will it change?
I live in Ahmedabad and I’ve noticed a growing trend toward meat-serving lorry-wallahs as well, whilst I don’t eat the stuff myself, a bunch of my more carnivorous friends are finding pretty creative places in which meat is served. Infact, there are certain places on Ashram road in which the menu seems vegetarian but meat is served by request and marketed through word of mouth. However, Gujarat is still 90% vegetarian, which is pretty remarkable. From what I hear a lot of the meat-eaters are college students and young professionals from neighbouring states. I still find Ahmedabad to be very conservative on its views toward meat and of course alcohol, which can still be acquired relatively easily and efficiently on the black market, despite Gujarat being a dry state
I don’t think the culture as a whole will change that much, since in Indian cuisine, unlike most Western ones, meat is not an integral part of every meal. While I know many Indians who feel starved unless they eat meat at least once a day, they aren’t exactly sitting down for a large steak. They are usually eating meat as part of a larger meal that includes dal, vegetables, rice, or roti–i.e. no one has to cook an entirely separate meal for a vegetarian family member or guest–they just won’t eat the meat dish. Contrast that with an American family having chicken pot pies for dinner: the entire meal has meat in it, so a separate meal would have to be cooked for a vegetarian. Also, meat in India still tends to be relatively expensive so most people can’t afford to eat it every day. And a lot of these “non-vegetarians” probably only eat meat at restaurants, not at home. Coming from a large extended family of both voracious meat eaters and staunch vegetarians, I can say that no one has every had trouble finding enough to eat at one of our family meals. Living in the US I still cook meat sparingly–I just don’t feel like I need to eat it that often.
Only 55% of Brahmins are pure-veggies? Somehow I thought that number would be higher.
I can’t speak to what will happen to Indian culture but the shift is happening in other places too…
I’ve been vegetarian for 16 years and in the beginning (high school) the only other vegetarians I knew were desis and american/west indian blacks. I was the only veg latina. In latino communities ( I have family in Jersey City, Union City, Brooklyn), I was viewed with suspicion or as a joke. If I requested ‘no carne’ or vegetariano, I got meat anyway, served with giggles. Maybe part of that was my being female or a teenager, I’m not sure.
Now, if I go into a cafe and order, it’s like, normal. Many of my family members who were born in the states or lived here more than two decades have converted to vegetarian. When my cousins from Colombia came here a couple years ago they thought not eating meat was loco. Now, after a couple years, they have reduced their meat consumption too. Maybe not eating meat (in the states) implies you are climbing the prosperity ladder?
just as important as the cultural ramifications are the environmental ones, with meat- production being far more resource-greedy.
Does this have something to do with greater health-consciousness in this demographic? I’ve been gradually getting more and more veggie in the past year or so, just as part of a natural process of maintaining my physical shape. I wonder if that happens to others too.
I’m an omnivore that was raised in a veggie TamBram household. I still don’t keep meat in my apartment, mostly because I don’t know how to cook any meat dishes, but I’ll eat it when I go out. I’ve been thinking of going fully veggie for some time now, as I don’t feel it would be all that difficult. If I decide to do so, it will be for environmental reasons and not moral/religious ones.
I only eat red meat. Beat that.
I should probably clarify what I said about my immigrant relatives and meat. The first year they were here, 5 adults, 2 children, everybody put on between 10 and 25 pounds because they ate so much more, including much more meat than back home because it is more plentiful/cheaper. They also indulged in fast food regularly. Now they eat meat for dinner instead of for every meal. Does anybody see a correlation here with more/less meat eating and their own freshly arrived relatives?
They were also flabbergasted that Americans eat garlic. Wow.
I don’t see non-vegetarianism having any impact on the culture. I am a Brahmin and many of my family members eat meat. They are not allowed to eat meat at home (to maintain the sanctity of the house!). It’s only at restaurants. When we go out with the extended family, they just eat veggie food and act like they don’t eat meat. It’s the white elephant in the room that the older generation tries to ignore. (Yes, eating meat is a big deal in my family and people do it anyway.) Most Indian weddings don’t serve meat, either. It’s expensive and not sacred to serve meat during weddings. Even my omnivorous friends don’t serve meat at weddings to be veggie friendly.
Though my mother downplays it as a factor, I think my being a life-long vegetarian (Yes. Even in the womb.) is a massive turn-off to blood-thirsty Christian Malayalee boys who can’t live without their beef curry or meen. Most of the Malayalees I interact with (specifically those who never met my Father, who is the reason why we’re strict veg in the first place) view vegetarianism with derision and suspicion.
I’m squeamish, too, so I can’t cook it for others the way my Vegan sister and veg Hindu gf do. I find this entire situation massively annoying, since every North Indian or hell, South Indian Hindu boyfriend I’ve ever had has a vegetarian Mother, Grandmother etc and probably because of that views my diet respectfully. I give up. Time to find a nice Hindu boy. Please be sending biodata to the Ennis.
no mention in the post about us
naughtyveggie by nature Jains!This discussion about vegetarianism is interesting. Being a vegetarian myself, I am curious to find out if there’s any other place where the concept of vegetarianism arose like in India. I find it annoying when people (usually in the West) assume that I eat chicken and fish after I tell them that I’m a vegetarian. They ask again to double check if chicken and fish are included in my diet.
Regarding comment #3, a lot of Brahmins in Bihar (Bhumihars) eat meat, which might account for the surprisingly low number of Brahmins being vegetarians. Also, I think almost everyone in West Bengal eats fish.
I’ve noticed the growth in American veggies as well. Maybe Americans are getting smarter 😉
Not to play devil’s advocate unnecessarily, but is that really so uncommon? Perhaps it’s just the people I know, but many of my acquaintances who’re ostensibly vegetarian don’t always exclude seafood or eggs (for example) from their diets. I remember one in particular, who upon being given a vegetarian version of the meal she wanted, was annoyed because they’d excluded the shrimp. She always was a crazy bitch though, so obviously I’m not setting her up as the standard.
I end up eating meat/chicken/fish now almost every meal except breakfast. This is a huge change from 10 years ago, in India growing up, when I ate non-veg about once a week.
While I admit eating quite a bit of meat, I want to cut down. What troubles me is the resource-intensity of a calorie of meat vs. grains/veggies. I can’t find the stats right now, but a pound of beef requires insane amounts of water, land and grain (which requires even more water and land). The nutritional advantage is questionable at best.
SkepMod,
Wiki has some good info on environmental vegetarianism.
Also, could someone please explain to me how fish and chicken became separated from meat? It has baffled me since childhood. I define meat as any dead animal. What kind of definition is involved where fish and chicken are excluded?
ANNA: You have never dated a Muslim boy or a boy born to Muslim parents? You are missing out on some of the finer things in life!
I concur with you Anna… I wouldn’t and couldn’t cook it for anyone.
In medical school a ton of women went vegetarian/vegan..and they still practice. A lot for social/health issues. Some just found animal slaughter morally wrong. To each their own.
Now where the heck is my Morningstar Burger?
My mom was a vegetarian her entire life – most women in India were while men sometimes ate meat. When my parents came to America after they got married, they were working such long hours that the only thing they had energy to eat at the end of the day was a Big Mac from McDonald’s. And to think, if there had been more veggie-friendly fast food options back in the day, I might have grown up a vegetarian .. and my meat loving hubby would have never married me .. and I’d still be living in Cali .. ok I’m stopping now.
Yes, I’m also waiting for answers to the same questions. I think some Catholics exclude fish from non-vegetarian items.
I find the inclusion of fowl more puzzling than that of fish. Birds are clearly meat, although not mammal meat. Fish is very different, in taste, feel and other things.
Still, it’s funny that in India some people don’t consider you vegetarian if you eat eggs, whereas in the UK some people call themselves vegetarian even though they eat Chicken!
p.s. I’d give up chicken before I gave up on Lamb … it’s hard to get non-factory farmed chicken, I have to buy directly from some small farmers. I figure Lamb is pretty much free range …
Yes speaking as a Catholic, we exclude fish from ‘meat’. Meat is mainly beef /pork. In Lent, we are supposed to refrain from meat on Fridays, so we eat fish instead.
That’s not what my Jat Sikh boyfriends said. 😀 . . .
KIDDING! I am so kidding. (well, they said it, but I didn’t believe it. my high school crush was pakistani.)
Like circumcision, hells yeah! 😉 (that would be another interesting topic)
I’ve heard this from a lot of my friends too. I’m not a big fan of burgers, but whenever I order one, I make it a point to request a veggie burger (i.e. don’t put the meat ‘patty’..just the veggies and cheese will do for me). I usually get varied reactions while ordering this..people double check to confirm that I want just the veggies and no “good stuff” in my burger.
This is a vegetarian(ism) thread, no meat please. We did that last week for hundreds of comments, a very long tale about some very short tails. Today we’re discussing something different.
Wow, on that page of stats:
73% of the respondents believe that the government should ban the consumption of alcohol
That’s a very sharp contrast to American society. While many Indian-Americans seem to remain vegetarian (or convert back to being vegetarian between 10 and 20 years old), I believe that drinking has been much more broadly adopted by us second-generationers.
Did anybody ever try out the BK Veggie Burger? The only such thing I eat is the traditional gardenburger – largely b/c they’re a fast meal at the end of a long day. Have never tried to order the BK Veggie at a fast food outlet, although their web site says they’re still being offered.
You’re better for it. They taste like ass. Dry, cardboard, flavor-free ass. Meanwhile, in the UK, their wedgie burgers were great (AND they had mozzarella HEARTS on the menu- sooo cute). Not fair. They have better vegetarian food AND better looking people.
(ducks)
That should explain those numbers.
I can relate to Anna’s comment about meat-loving malayalee christian brothers. One of them is a colleague that sits right next to me and we end up, a statistically significant number of times on the veg vs. non-veg needling of each other. Me, being the TamBram veggie, once remarked to him that I thought the distance between a meat-eater and a cannibal is shorter than the distance between a veggie and non-veggie, provoking him for days to wonder about that comment. 🙂
But are you single? And of suitable age? Inquiring monkeys want to know!
Ahmedabad used to be hostile towards non-vegetarians. You could only find vegetarian restaurants on one side of the city because the people refused to set foot in non-vegetarian ones. Certain apartment complexes insisted on you being vegetarian if you wanted to rent/buy a place there. Some of them even have separate buildings for non-vegetarians, always located downwind from the vegetarian ones. I wonder if this is still the case today.
The relation between IQ and vegetarianism is tenuous at best. From the BBC article:
Looks like I’m good to go as long as they dont involve booze in that equation 🙂
Woo. Yes, that’s us. Allegedly. We have ducks on the menu too. They taste fantastic.
Steak? Roast chicken? Even turkey? Am I the only person who thinks that 5 IQ points is a fair price to pay for such delicious carnivorous delights?
http://www.1stoppostershop.com/products/McGaw/celebrities/mg_GeorgeTheTimelessArtOfS.jpg
Sorry to deflate your hopes
McDonalds used to have a pretty good veggieburger option here in Britain, although it’s not as widely available as it used to be (in my experience, anyway). Burger King have a pretty good veggie but an outstanding Spicy Beanburger — mixture of kidney beans, pepper, some kind of spicy tex-mex-type concoction (appears to me to be refried beans in the mexican style), deep-fried in (I think) breadcrumbs, with a slice of cheese and a couple of slices of tomato, with ketchup. Excellent stuff.
Not on this website they’re not 😉
laughs and ducks like Anna
This study is idiotic. Vegetarians being more intelligent than meat eaters flies in the face of what is known about human evolution and the effects of protein on the development of the brain. All other factors being equal it is absurd to think that a vegetable based diet is “better” for your intelligence than a meat based diet.
There was a study in LA years back where they found that woman who drank bottled water had a lower rate of miscarriage than women that drank out of the tap. Everyone freaked and thought that the city’s water supply was messed up somehow. In fact, the truth was that women who drank bottled water were wealthier and had access to better pre-natal care, etc. It had NOTHING to do with the water. Similarly, vegetarians in the western world (as in this study) are vegetarians by choice and because they have access to enough non-meat based protein, and are probably wealthier. Wealthier people generally have higher IQs. If you’ll note, around the holidays food banks put out special requests for people to donate tuna, specifically because of its high protein content which is something homeless people are lacking. There is more protein per calorie in meat than in vegetables which is one of the reasons why Homo sapien started eating meat in the first place. Brain development hungers for protein and oxygen.
This is just silly “pop science.”
Aiyoo, Rajni the Monkey, vhy you vant to know, single vingle age vage, vhy it matters?
Drummers do it in rhythm, that’s what matters.
Climb down those branches and look here
for the canadians among us who subscribe to the walrus – the latest issue – has a photoessay on what we eat around the world – the family patkar from india is profiled and their budget runs to $45 or so it seems to be heavy on grain and veggies.
fyi the canadian budget is ~$400 and one canadian family has narwhal and elk on its table. Do take a look, it is very iluminating. for instance the kuwaiti family included their 2 nepali ‘servants’ as part of the family…
i’m afraid the essay is currently only available to print editiion subscribers or for a modest fee. that reminds me the chicago airport seems to have a very very very interesting photo exhibition from around the world in a similar vein – on how we live – it is at the transit terminal where you can get on to the hotel shuttles or take the mta. do look it up.
it makes me feel warm and fuzzy when i think about it. and i’m not wearing any pants right now.
All of a sudden, so much is made clear. 😉
Despite my fondness for meat (no jokes involving rump roast, prime rib, tenderloin and the like, if you please), I occasionally go through hard-core “I only want to eat vegetarian food” phases; I’ve found that the UK did far outdo the US in terms of both flavour and options. I was bummed though, because I couldn’t find the Morningstar Farms Spicy Black Bean Burger at any Tesco in Zone 1. It was saddening.
Then again, it just meant that I got to eat a hella lot more hash browns.
Damn straight!!
Here is some light on the relation between meat and resources required to produce it.
Find the article here.
Some snippets
I am myself a born vegetarian turned non-vegetarian considering going back into the vegetarian fold.
I tried for almost a good year to be veg. My Punjabi husband, after making many veg only means — tastie meals, would comment, “honey what’s with all of the side dishes, where’s dinner?
The man wore me down.
Hey the BK veggie burger is not so bad! Actually, it’s the only thing that they make fresh when you order — you can find whoppers sitting around for hours.
As for including eggs in the vegetarian diet, my veterinarian friend pointed out that eggs are an animal byproduct. If you can drink milk, you can eat eggs. They will produce eggs regularly and only when it’s fertilized does it have potential. You’re not “killing” when you eat eggs. But, yeah I’ve gotten dirty looks in India for eating an egg (I was traumatized at 10).
BTW, I’m a born again vegetarian.
I ordered eggs florentine at a cafe in DC a couple of months ago with no meat. Waitress brings it out with a thick slice of ham. I looked at it and said, “but I asked for no meat.” Waitress says “That’s not meat, that’s ham.”
????
It’s a bit of a hassle being vegetarian in America, especially if you loathe salads like I do, or like fully cooked, flavorful food. I have mad respect for people who were raised in America and are (or turn) vegetarian. If I wasn’t raised in strictly veg home for 14 years in India, I’m not certain I would still be 100% veg.
Ennis,
The following Brahman communities are non-vegetarian; Maithils, Asomiya, Begali, Oriya, Sarasvat, and Kashmiri, as once were all Brahman communities 1000s of years ago. And I am not sure of the Pahadi brahman communities of Garhwal, Nepal, Java, Bali, Siam, Anam, and Khamboja. Many migrant Brahmans in the Caribbean are non-vegetarian, which could mean that the shift to a vegetarian diet may be more recent and not due to the popularity of vanaprastha and sanyasa that was enhanced following the times of Buddha and Mahavira who BTW did not found the ascetic tradition, simply made it a little more popular.
Hindus at one time may have eaten beef; but today many will not. So let’s respect that sentiment and leave it at that. We aren’t about to discuss other types of meat – forbidden or otherwise right? You can find Hindus relishing many other kinds of meat – the Mahabharata talks of rishis enjoying venison.
Vegetarianism is popular not only among Hindus today, but also among some orthodox Jews (who find it’s easier to observe kosher as a vegetarian), and of course from many other faith groups. The 7th Day Adventists are ovo-lacto vegs. No onion/no garlic veganism is a long standing Buddhist inspired dietary custom, in China, Taiwan, Thailand, Vietnam etc. In Phuket you have a week-long vegan eating festival everyhwere with plenty of mock meat grillz.
Bengali Hindus and Gujarati Hindus are possibly the least clannish Hindus anywhere; because the former are all non-vegetarian, and latter all vegetarian! As a rule Indian Airlines at one time would serve chicken only NV meals. The only time I have had mutton was when I flew out once out of Ahmedabad to Delhi many years ago!
Is India gradually moving towards factory farming as is practiced in the US and Europe? I’m all for the increased protein in people’s diets, most Indians need more protein BADLY, plus I think we cook the best non-veg food in the world, but the ecologic implications of > 1 billion potential meat-eaters are staggering. That being said, children especially should have plenty of milk and eggs (at least the egg whites) while growing, and ideally meat too. I think factory farming is inevitable in India, and will be even more disgusting than it is here, given the shortage of space and general disregard for animal welfare (except the cows of course).
Building on shiva’s comment, as far as I know not one of the major Hindu texts calls for a vegetarian diet. My understanding, and someone please correct me if I’m wrong, was that Hinduism adopted vegetarianism to differentiate itself from the Mughals and at the same time deal with the increasing popularity of Bhuddism, which did call for a vegetarian diet.