Bangalore is about to have one of it’s largest live concerts ever, courtesy of aging 1970s rockers Deep Purple.
Who are/were Deep Purple? For our readers who like to listen to music originally recorded in their lifetime, Deep Purple were part of the the holy Trinity that founded Heavy Metal, along with Led Zepplin and Black Sabbath.
Their biggest hit was probably “Smoke on the Water” which reached #4 on the Billboard charts in 1972, and which is “#426 on Rolling Stone Magazine’s The 500 Greatest Songs of All Time”. If you’ve got a friend learning to play electric guitar, you’ve probably heard him or her attempt to play it, along with Stairway to Heaven.
It is commonly the first song learned by many beginner guitarists, it’s also noted for it’s extreme difficulty. However, it’s main recognisable riff is not difficult and consequently is constantly played by learners.
In fact, it’s so popular, that one famous guitar store in Denmark Street, London, used to sport a sign on the wall reading ‘If auditioning a guitar, please refrain from playing Smoke on the Water, as this is causing our staff mental torture’… [Link]
Events like this contribute to this peculiar retro-quality that parts of Indian culture have. I suppose it’s good that Indians still appreciate the retro given that they’re still receiving visits from bands whose biggest hits were over 30 years ago. Heck, Deep Purple first broke up in 1976.
Bangalore is the only Asian stop on the reconstituted band’s tour. The group will fly in from South America to play one night in India before flying on to Europe, so in some ways it’s a big deal.
But (and I’m wrinking my nose here) … don’t you think that India should be receiving more up to date acts now? I know that tickets are expensive for the average Indian, but Bangalore should have more than enough young employees of multinationals that they’re willing to pay something close to international prices for a ticket. Why is it that, despite India Rising and all that, that India attracts only 3rd string western bands on international tour? I’m sure I’m missing something.
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Some classic Deep Purple:
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And a more recent incarnation of the band playing Smoke on the Water:
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You familiar with Good old Dombivli? Who can forget those awesome central railway commutes 🙂
Wow this thread got soooo long. Where to start, where to start…
1. The UK/India Connection It seems like this connection has a lot more to do with acts coming to India than otherwise, and maybe it’s because there are stronger connections between UKBDs and desis from the des. I’ll repeat myself, but honestly every single one of my cousins in Punjab is all about the following genres: bhangra, filmi, and UKBD artists. Doesn’t matter what genre the latter are in, they listen to it. Perhaps this is also the influence of MTV India? Oh, and also, with respect to their interest in filmi it’s because all of them are competitive bhangra dancers, so maybe it has to do with the dance aesthetic/beat? They’re not really into the ballads, and they’re definitely not as into filmi as they are into bhangra or bhangra remixes.
2. Hip Hop While I do think there are a bunch of ABDs who have never seen a black person in their life appropriating hip hop culture, I don’t think this is an easy “oh they’re emulating white upper-middle-class kids” kind of thing. Maybe this is me trying to cover my butt since I love hip hop and did not come from a white upper middle class background, though 🙂 Please see Nitasha Sharma for a really interesting exploration of desi hip hop and identity in the U.S.
3. The “Splintering” of the Music Market I think it’s a little disingenuous to assume that people are less likely to listen to music “outside of their genre” than they were in the past. I also don’t think there’s a general decrease of good music, I think it’s just harder to find because of the consolidation of record labels. But also, I feel like a lot of “small name” artists have their songs/works redone by “big name” artists. Also, there are still a lot of arena tours in the U.S., you probably just don’t like the people who are packing those arenas 🙂
Also, who wants an arena show anyway? Give me a small club show any day. I wonder if we looked at who tours the “smaller venue” circuit within India if things would be different. From what I’ve heard, this is where a lot of the (UK) desi hip hop and dancehall scene comes in.
Oh, and lastly, I don’t think the music industry is more splintered, I think people have better access to different forms of music and that music that may have been consolidated under one “genre” in the past is now more nuanced. Basically, same stuff, different categorization.
4. I love rock ‘n’ roll I just wanted to say that. Don’t you?
Karmacola,
Is any of that Indian rock available online? I’m really curious about it — the whole concept of “Indian rock” is alien to me.
Parikrama: http://www.parikrama.com/home.html
Agni: http://www.indiasoft.co.in/agni/default.asp
rawk
Hmmm, Parikrama’s site has this picture on the front page with the words “Pure ****in Rock” on the shirt. Are they serious? It’s gotta hurt their image.
Any gulfies posting?
The best places to start to get an idea of the current rock scene in India is at:
To get an idea of the early day original Indian rock in Calcutta, you could google for some comination of the following:
Dilip Balakrishnan, Lew Hilt, Nondon Bagchi, Great Bear, High
Unfortunately, these guys did not record anything those days (not officially) I am trying myself to find if I could get copies of their private recordings from that era
I recently came across a lovely nostalgia piece of the period here: http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/sep/30sumit.htm
Parikrama, of course, sold their sold to the devil when they took money to compose a song for Microsoft. This was in response to the OSS community’s efforts to promote Linux through rock. Rock wars took a whole new dimension. 🙂 [and someone commented that we ought to leave the engineering community out of this. :-)]
Meanwhile, the best musical group in India, unparalleled, sublime, original, amazing are Indian Ocean. IM-not-so-HO, they are the greatest Indian rock band ever. Period.
Indian Ocean’s official website is here.
Agni’s 1993 album “Wind Dance with Fire” rocks.
“wind dance with fire” – Agni is available for (free) download here: http://72hoytstreet.net/music/agni/
How about them Savages?
Btw, the OSS champions have their own rock group, Phenom.
Indian Ocean is perhaps best classified as India Fusion (though they will also count as rock). Their album Kandisa was a big success in India, and more than well-deserved. Their next album Jhini perhaps did not get the same amount of play, but IM(V)HO, it is even better than Kandisa(I am totally addicted to it right now). They have a video of their song Jhini online at youtube. The video is …um…awful, but the song is great, though it sounds much better with superior sound quality.
…to complete the thought…
Savages is to Remo Fernandes as Blade Runner is to Harrison Ford.
…thought complete
Sriram:
I actually don’t have a lot of problems with the splintered scene- sure it makes things difficult overall because you don’t really know where to begin. But OTOH, you can find music that really speaks to you, and I think that more than makes up for the initial problems. Though I am not much into indie music- there’s a lot of good fairly mainstream stuff I still haven’t got through(my gyan is certainly limited). I find albums withing mainstream stuff that I’ve never heard of before – and I don’t really have any idea how the critics rate them- but so long as I love the sound, what do I care. For some freakish reason I love the Scottish band Del Amitri, which I discovered pretty much by accident. I know they never really made it big, I am not really sure what the critics think of them – maybe they hate them- but so long as I love the music, what do I care. I don’t claim to have any great taste in music (I can’t carry a tune to save my life), but the point is that there is certainly more choice.
You said it. The best part is that you can hear a lot of varied music on sites such as yahoo music without even paying a penny, or say at rhapsody for $10 a month, I get access to variety I couldn’t even dream of 5 years ago. *bow to Vishwakarma, great god of technology *
Quizman:
Yes, and they have helpfully posted clips and lyrics from their songs online. Kandisa and Jhini .
Parikrama, of course, sold their sold to the devil when they took money to compose a song for Microsoft. This was in response to the OSS community’s efforts to promote Linux through rock. Funny, that 🙂
Thanks much, brown_fob, for the links. Thanks, Quizman and Shodan, for the pointers.
Is it limited to India, or an era? What moves us; what nerds us? Cameron Crowe meets Nick Hornby. The race sub-text is definitely a factor. I don’t even bother to listen to Ozzy or ACDC anymore, but there was a time when that stuff was simply music. A mildly rebellious follow-on from the sacred stuff (Beatles, Floyd, Carol King) passed down from the elders. Must have something to do with vinyl — so precious, somehow, that I just had to respect the parents’ Reshma and Saigal LPs even as I amassed my heavy metal collection.
True, some of this stuff is simply popular, retro notwithstanding. But there are also those groups that never made it in the US, but yet seem to be perennials in the third world. Abba and Boney M being the standard bearers. Forget Mariah Carey. There is no Christmas like a Boney M Christmas.
So why am I hooked on SexyBack today?
People have been mentioning the Beatles, and that’s got me thinking…one of the main legacies of that band, apart from their great music, is that they (along with others like Dylan) introduced the notion that anyone with the talent and the inclination, could write their own songs, play their own instruments, and release the kind of music THEY wanted to. They sort of pioneered the concept of highly personal songs, that made specific statments about the author, whether about his/her emotional state, love life, political views, economic views, anti-war, whatever. That opened the flood-gates for thousands of artists who came after them to pick up a guitar or other instrument, and write personal songs that reflected whatever they were feeling, including rebellion, protest, depression, happiness, whatever. Or form bands who did the same thing. Another outcome of that was that it largely destroyed the formulaic, tin-pan alley, show tune sort of musical industry, in which professional song-writers wrote highly-crafted, polished songs that were simply fed to singers to sing. After the initial outburst of rock and roll into mainstream America had subsided (early Elvis, Chuck Berry, Bo Diddly, Little Richard, and other greats), the manufactured music industry sort of took over until the Beatles arrived. I SEE HUGE PARALLELS WITH INDIA; India is sort of in a pre-Beatles stage, where a huge industry (Bollywood) churns out polished, highly-manufactured and crafted songs, written by professionals, with studio musicians, paid singers, etc. Although some of the songs are nice, they do not reflect the personal convictions, beliefs, or feelings of their singer/author the way songs usually do in the West. My question is – what are the factors that are preventing a Beatlesque revolution from happening in India? Is it due to cultural differences (the highly individualistic West vs. the group mentality of India)? Is it the language problem (English vs. Indian languages)? Is it lack of talent? What?
Is it due to cultural differences (the highly individualistic West vs. the group mentality of India)? Is it the language problem (English vs. Indian languages)? Is it lack of talent? What?
You could think of Jagjit Singh/ Chitra Singh or Pankaj Udhas as “Indianized” version of Bob Dylan and Beatles. They started as non-Bollywood, and then moved there (from time to time). Same with Gurdas Mann.
Obviously, on a smaller scale compared to West. It is the club scene all over US, UK, and Europe and better marketing that makes it happen.
I think it will keep growing.
Kush, the people you mention, despite their obvious talent, are still to a large extent manufactured product. They come from rich traditions (ghazal, bhajan, Punjabi folk) and they excel at what they do, but I’m talking about something more visceral and personal. India, rife with corruption, social problems, cultural changes, caste issues, economic uncertainties, seems like a great place for some talented singers/musicians to start making some statements about it all.
In the Punjabi tradition, Chamkila comes close to what I’m talking about. Very few people who are not into hard-core Punjabi music know about him though, and it’s hard to understand his extrememly ‘theth’, rural Punjabi.
Didn’t all the 70s amitabh flicks address these issues. That was a “organized” industry..not something coming from individuals.
Bands like Euphoria, Indian Ocean etc are quite mainstream now..they started pretty small..with very little formal “music education”. The indipop scene is full of so called “singers” who have no formal training ..and they eventually made it big. But they don’t usually write their own songs (or sing something which they believe in).
India, rife with corruption, social problems, cultural changes, caste issues, economic uncertainties, seems like a great place for some talented singers/musicians to start making some statements about it all.
Why is it necessary for musicians to make music that reveals their deep, personal/political views on life, the universe and everything? This is not to say that I don’t love U2 for Pride or the Beatles for baring their souls, but I’m just as easily moved when I hear Mohammed Rafi sing a song about nothing in particular, that takes its “meaning” from something as pedestrian as the narrative of a film, or the beauty of its lyrics.
somewhere eastBut there are also those groups that never made it in the US, but yet seem to be perennials in the third world
I hear you. Back in the 70s there used to be a programme called ‘Saturday Date’ on All India Radio, Bombay. The programme was from 10.00 – 11.00 p.m. The RJ played requests. Two things were very clear: 1. There were a lot of Goan Catholic radio listeners 2. They write a lot of letters and love soppy songs.
Ergo, one heard “..from Lolita, Judy, Frances, Lily Barbosa, Roderick Gonsalves, Malini Carvallo, Tony Coellho, Peter Fernandes, Philomena aunty, dada, mama, and Calomine D’Souza, a big happy birthday to Sophia who turned 18 yesterday, the song ‘Me and you and a dog named Boo’ by Lobo followed by ‘<http://youtube.com/watch?v=dGKnSdikqjw“>More than I can say‘ by Leo Sayer”.
I am still suffering from that.
Amitabh: My question is – what are the factors that are preventing a Beatlesque revolution from happening in India
Sahir gave us lyrics that conveyed all that and more. But you’re right, these are few and far between.
Link to More than I can say by Leo Sayer. Somehow I screwed up the link in my previous post.
Quizman,
If you want to suffer some more, give a listen to KOST 103.5 in L.A. Its like ‘Saturday Date’ on drugs 🙂
Quizman, You are not alone on Lobo and Sayer related grief. It comes from Jhumritalaiya of Katlic world. Dog named Boo a must for old school parties in Mahim (pronounced Maim) and Bandra. Followed by a mewling Wonderful Tonight from the most enduring rock guitar player the world has ever known.
Neal:
Hallelujah! Is it just me, or doesn’t the kind of music you listen to depend on your mood? Sometimes I want to listen to jazz, sometimes classical, sometimes classic rock, sometimes bhajans, and so on. Besides, musical taste (like most taste in art) is not objective.
Sound by Roger Drego.
Pink Floyd, Deep purple, Led Zep…………man those are goods bands. They don’t make them like that anymore. As for these bands being retro, who the fuck cares. They are bloody good and head and shoulders above the hip hop crap that passes for music these days.
Songs i grew up listening to. I thought Lobo was cool, and when learning to play the guitar, they were easy to play. Probably also explains my love for old country music…
Dooood, you and I went to same concerts and inhaled same second hand pot.
But this is still true of 90% of American pop music. For most mainstream acts, the producer and hired songwriter is WAY more important than the actual singer. Just look at what happened to Nelly Furtado!
It’s almost like India isn’t in a “pre-Beatles” state so much as it skipped that whole period and went into “corporate synergy” (where pop music is more a vehicle to sell things like movies) immediately.
190 · Quizman
Thanks for that Digital Library link. Wonderful, it has all the novels of R.K. Narayan in full! Yes, I am aware that all big Indian cities have Municipal Libraries but the ones I had been to in Hyderabad, where I grew up, were dismal. But then I was spolied rotten at my college. Oh! And British Council Libraries are damn elitist – you need reccomendations and all that to become a member not that I don’t see the point behind it given pilferage etc.
197 · Shankar
I think, your printout + binding + distribution of Project Guntenberg e-books is a capital idea. Maybe we should pass this on to the beloved “footpath” booksellers?
222 · Amitabh
I think Indian Ocean (it was also discussed in an SM post by Amardeep), do make music in which they make socio-political statements, for example “Ma Rewa” in support of Narmada Bacho Andolan. And I personally think Gulzar-R.D.Burman combo has made songs that beat Beatles any day in their poetic range and musicality.
If you are speaking of protest/ up-end the world kind of music, there is rich vein that doesn’t get as much play, as for example, Gaddar (see this SM post) in Telugu or the Bauls in Bengali or, I would say, even Meera Bai/ Kabir bhajans.
There is only one God and Pink Floyd is his Prophet. Pink Floydu akbar!!!!
Thanks for the tip, I’ll check it out.
Oh hell to the naw! I don’t care about Journey or the Stones, but great googly moogly, surely you’re not seriously tossin’ Rush into that hamper? You’re telling me that 7/8 time signatures, fantasy-inspired lyrics, and complex songs that push the 9 minute mark put them in the same realm as argyle-striped foot stockings? P’shaw. Rush was both challenging and experimental. Hell, the drummer wrote the songs and lyrics! Tell me that’s not, at the very least, out of the ordinary.
Asia didn’t form until 1981. Guns and Roses didn’t even form until the mid eighties and Axl Rose’s public drug and alcohol use, feuds with band members, controversies with homophobia and racism, etc. were hardly a corporate formula. Jebus…I’d leave it to Karmacola, (whose misconceptions are too numerous to cite and rectify, – though you have been doing a good job), to get his facts mixed up and run with an ad hoc hypothesis, but not the mighty Neal! @=)
Shodan, you rawk. You rawk hard. You listed two great and sadly unappreciated bands. Speaking of, I can’t acknowledge the former without giving big ups to the Melvin’s, Sonic Youth, Tad, etc.- nearly forgotten bands that helped shape the sounds of the 90s. Interesting interview with Thayil, but, on an Anu Garg tangent, did you notice his use of “eschemic?” I found no other instances of the word; Google kindly suggests that focus my attention on “ischemic,” but somehow I don’t think Kim’s describing his music as not like a “restriction of blood supply to an organ.” Or maybe he is, I dunno. If any of you are still following this , Kim Thayil is also credited with coining the word “ferrivorous,” meaning “iron-eating.” Fuggetabout Indian kids and their spelling bees, this macaca’s a bona fide neologist:
[link]
Word to the third power, my man. Since I now count you as one of my fellow enlightened ones, it’s imperative that you read this amazing article about the current state of music and culture and the US.
You could, but only if you ignored quite a bit, including the incredible social upheaval the Beatles and Bob Dylan helped faciliate. I understand that both Jagjit/Chitra Singh and Pankaj Udhas were musically revolutionary in their own right, but Dylan and the Fab Four’s impact on culture is was both unprecedented and indelible. I can’t think any of the Indian performers you listed alienated their fanbase by doing something akin to switching from acoustic to electric guitar like Dylan did or evolved from traditional and inoffensive to socially aware and controversial like the Beatles.
cough cough hack cough hack Oh my, I must be coming down with something.
Keep on rocking in the free world!
Man, I wasn’t shitting on any of those bands. I rock out to Rush, Journey (how could I not — “Don’t Stop Believing” was this city’s anthem for a while), Boston, and the rest as much as the next guy. All I’m trying to say is that ticket sales and staying power don’t necessarily equal artistry.
And despite all the “Behind the Music” drama with Guns N Roses, I think it’s hard to argue that their actual music was TOTALLY corporate influenced. Again that doesn’t make it bad — “November Rain” and “Sweet Child of Mine” were awesome. But it was clearly just building on the stuff that sold previously. I don’t think they belong in the same innovative category as, say, punk or even New Wave.
Although I am surprised about the dates you provided. I’m sure you’re right though — those bands all just typify a certain era and sound for me.
He is right on all the dates and deserves nerd pat on the back. If you look closely, you can see Nirvana cap in DonÂ’t Cry vid.
Old school punkers sneering @ New Wave. Debate within debate. I bring it up to point out “My shit is real” attitude we’re seeing on this thread, can be found in all genres. Pull my strings on Give Me Convenience or Give Me Death is a hilarious critique of New Wave and general boataciousness of corprock.
understand that both Jagjit/Chitra Singh and Pankaj Udhas were musically revolutionary in their own right,
Whaaat???
But I’m not saying “My shit is more real” or whatever. I like a lot of these bands. But I think some of them can be classified together. I think GnR is closer to Journey, Rush, etc… than it is to Nirvana. I still say it belongs to that musical era: anthemic, blues-rock based bands structured to sell out arenas.
Drrrty Ponjabi and Quizman,
I never implied Jagjit Singh/ Chitra Singh et al. as revolutionaries in the mold of Beatles and Bob Dylan. They have not pushed the social mores, or deeply personalized their songs and messages.
I just wanted to point out that they made their mark outside of Bollywood first even though it was within established mores as Amitabh pointed out.
I’d definitely count Jagjit/Chitra Singh as revolutionary on the ghazal scene. Before him, the style of ghazal rendition was heavily classical. They ‘loosened’ the format to a great extent(they have caught considerable flak for that, some of it deserved, IMHO). They also broadened the themes that could be tackled in ghazals, moving beyond the archetypal romantic to philosophical, also occasionally social/political(eg, in Mirage, Cry for Cry), themes. Of course, they are no Dylan/CSNY. But the 60s/70s were a different, very politically charged time, in the US. How many teens today would dig a song based on political themes?
That comment was aimed here and here. That attitude is irritating regardless of whichever high calibre artist you’re championing. Though Pink Floydu Akbar is some funny shit and I often drink some Pink Floydade myself.
My father is a font of hindustani classical music gyan. Not once did he look down on my strange (to his POV) tastes. I respect that. Now I am older and wiser, I enjoy his Pandit Jasraj bootlegs as much as my rawkers.
Sakshi I’d definitely count Jagjit/Chitra Singh as revolutionary on the ghazal scene. Before him, the style of ghazal rendition was heavily classical. They ‘loosened’ the format to a great extent(they have caught considerable flak for that, some of it deserved, IMHO).
Firstly, I will not put Udhas and Jagjit Singh in the same book, leave alone the same sentence. 🙂 Secondly, they did not revolutionize anything. All they did was to continue the tradition of singing light music set to Urdu poetry (ghazal, nazm etc) as was done before, but outside of the scope of Hindi cinema. But even that was done before by folks like Ghulam Ali, Pervez Mehdi et al. Discerning music lovers began to listen to Mehdi Hassan, Iqbal Bano, Farida Khanum, Ghulam Ali in the 1960s and 70s and moved to Jagjit Singh in the 80s primarily due to the fact that the Hindi Film music of that era was so bad. Less discerning audiences preferred the ‘maykada_mein_pee_rahaa_hoon’ type stuff dished out by Pankaj Udhas and Anup Jalota.
They also broadened the themes that could be tackled in ghazals, moving beyond the archetypal romantic to philosophical, also occasionally social/political(eg, in Mirage, Cry for Cry), themes.
Au contriare, Jagjit and others were responsible for dumbing down to ghazals/nazms written on the backs of envelopes. T’was Mehdi Hassan, Bano et al who tackled ghazals that were deeply philosophical – heck, even Noorjehan sang Faiz’s magnificent song on patriotism and betrayal, ‘mujhse pehlisi muhabbat mere mehboob na maang‘ [1]. Even Ghulam Ali sang philosophical songs. His signature rendition of Akbar Allahabadi’s deeply contemplative/rebellious ‘Hungama Hai Kyon Barpa’ is still hummed today, even by misinformed idiots who think of it as a song about drinking. 🙂 That said, Gulzar was responsible for Jagjit Singh’s most philosophical outpouring; the music for the tv serial ‘Mirza Ghalib’.
[1] which has the line ‘teri ankhon ke siva duniya mein rakkha kya hain?”. This was used by Majrooh to write a complete song based on that theme in Chirag.
I enjoy 80’s arena rock essentially for its campiness. I’m guilty of rocking out to Europe, Kansas, Winger, Journey, Foreigner, and (80’s) Eddie Money when I think no one’s looking. (Someone always is.) I’ve really appreciated and agreed with everything you’ve said so far (you’re absolutely right about ticket sales and staying power =/= artistry), I was only taking issue with your casual dismissal of Rush as unchallenging and throwin’ them in the proverbial hamper with socks like Journey and the Stones. Speaking of, I saw Primus and Gogol Bordello last night, two very challenging and experimental bands that I absolutely f*ckin’ love. If you haven’t already checked them out, please do so and please continue to contribute to the best thread on SM evar!!!111
What can I say, I serve society by rocking. Now if that could somehow translate into me getting a date…
Check Sakshi’s well-composed post two spots above mine. Plus, aren’t you were supposed to be the resident Indian trivia buff, Quizman? C’mon now, you should know this stuff. If I ever run into you, I’m definitely quizzing you on it. @=)
My bad mate, but I think we’ll both agree a grassroots social and musical revolution would not be a bad thing in India today.
Word to the third. Yamla Jatt, Alam Lohar, and other artists even my mom shudders at the thought of listening to have begun to find themselves on my playlist. I love my music and try to be as objective and open-minded as possible, though I wish I had your dad’s legendary tolerance when it came to Avril Lavigne, Linkin Park, Evanescence, Good Charlotte, and other bands that give me an itch on the roof my mouth that only the barrel of a gun can scratch.
In an unlikely case that he’s a stranger to you, Mehdi Hassan samples.
I’ve actually never heard of him before, thanks for the headsup. In the unlikely case this guy‘s a stranger to you, Ananda Shankar samples. Keep ’em coming MemShod, so far you and I are the only ones keeping this thread alive.