With what seems to be the ongoing theme on Sepia Mutiny this week of (self) identification of South Asian Americans and racialization of America, I had to share the following story I got in my inbox this morning. My friend’s name is Nirva. Nice desi name, right? Nirva is shopping for a bicycle, and found one on craigslist…
Nirva: I saw your add on craigs list about the bicycle sale. And, I’m really interested in the nishikisport and murray women’s bikes. Are both of these frames lightweight and are they new? Thanks, NirvaCraigslist Bike Seller: what nirva, whateva
[What exactly deos the “whateva” mean? Was it an insult to her name? Or was it a “we have no bikes for you”?]
N: i am sorry what did you say?
CBS: oh yeah righ they are brand new for 80 dollars yes. come right over this is hollywood and you can buy a bike nishiki brand for 80 dollars. what boat did you just get off?
[“What boat did I get off?” Kind of presumptuous to get all of that simply from her first name, don’t ya think?]
N: Excuse you…..First of all. It’s a question. If you want to answer it then answer it right. Damn you’re great with customer sales. Ya really want the bike now. Go take some happy pills and think twice before you get on a high horse and act anti-immigrant.CBS: anti-immigrant? I just saw the movie Borat and you can not take a Joke! I do not think you want the bikes since they are not Brand New. They are used and I am sorry if I offended you but you are obviously too serious.
[Oh no. She didn’t go there with a Borat reference…]
N: I don’t want your bike because of your first response “what nirva, whateva” and because you asked me “what boat did you just come off” (by the way anyone would find that to be a little on the anti-immigrant side).You think you’re not anti-immigrant because you saw the movie Borat??!?!??!?!! Borat’s all about highlighting how anti-immigrant and stupid people are when it comes to dealing with people of other cultures, not to mention the guy who plays Borat is a white guy from England (He’s not really from Khazakstan in case you didn’t know) So you think you you’re not anti-immigrant cuz you saw a dumbass mainstream movie? A person who truly supported immigrants would never say something like “what boat did you just come off?”
You think I can’t take a joke. Sure I can. What I can’t take is an offensive comment.
CBS: blah bla bla, go eat some cake you cake eater. hey nirva you need to get those papers soon thats why you are too uptight. hurry up and go to the ins and stand in line
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p>I think she needs to go buy that bike just so that we can get an i.d. on this craigslist bike seller. My first thought when I read this interaction is CBS is never going to sell her bikes with that kind of a ‘customer is always right’ attitude. My second thought — Borat is how she justified those comments, really? Final third thought — in this crazed world of anonymity of internet where one feels empowered to say whatever they feel like, the idiots can still make racists comments inferred all from a single name. No where in her entire e-mail was her ethnicity or race ever mentioned – CBS felt that they could make bigoted comments on Nirva’s ethnicity simply by her first name.
What is in a name? After all, names is why Kalpen Modi changed his stage name to Kal Penn – and saw an increase in audition calls subsequently. How many desis do we know who have ‘Americanized’ names — or nicknames of cartoon characters to make it easier on other people to say your name? Would CBS have reacted the way she did, had Nirva signed her e-mail with a ‘Betty’ or ‘Cindy’? Would CBS have had the courage to say the things she said in the e-mail to Nirva’s face? I think Nirva responded quite civilly — I think I may have let my temper get the best of me if I responded to those e-mails …What would you have done?
NYT article:
It’s my name. Learn to say it.
An East Asian friend’s recent blog entry:
Scroll to October 16th for “It’s all in the name”
just for the flip-side, notes on anglo names in the indian context:
as an american living in india i often use an indian name when ordering things, etc. my name is theresa and it gets confused when i say it with an american accent, i often get called sarita and just agree.
i was working in a village in uttar pradesh and introduced myself to the village council.
an elder asked, “but you are from america? how do you have an indian name?” me: “excuse me?” him: “theresa? it’s an indian name, mother theresa the indian saint!”
using this tactic to order pizza has had mixed results, i usually say, “theresa, just like mother theresa” — at least 50% of the time i will get a pizza and on the box will be written, “1 veg pizza for mother theresa”.
musical,
I stand corrected.
Knock, knock!
Q: What did the south Indian leg-spinner name his daughter? A: Bala-tirupura-sundari*
Q: What did his name his son? A: Why, Pitchumani, of course.
That is so true. I’ve experienced quite a few and it’s actually more hilarious than offensive (depending on the context, of course).
in my experience, it isn’t that girls in general have more “identity issues,” but rather, they are more obvious/vocal about being confused. my desi guy friends have had their fair share of issues with the desi community and trying to find their place in it, but they don’t talk about it like how the girls i know do. girls tend to publicly discuss/analyze all of their issues more in general (at least in my experience). i think the issue of figuring out one’s identity is something that all people, not just desis and certainly not just 2nd gens, can relate to in their own way.
and also– in my personal experience, because of my parents’ upbringing and their culture, as a woman, my american and desi identities can sometimes be at odds because of gender. what is allowed for me as an indian woman is sometimes the opposite of the privileges i receive as being an american woman. this can definitely cause frustration and confusion that my brothers do not have to deal with.
if you feel that you have certain privileges and they are opposite of values you been taught, then dont do it – to me its a simple decion – why lose your mind over it is what i say 🙂
some decisions are easier than others. what about the values that you didn’t agree with in the first place? the eternal tug of war of being a 2nd gen…. 🙂
i lived 12 years of my life in india and now have lived in us for 9 years – i am what you might call a pseudo-2nd gen desi
maybe this is why things have always been simple for me – my heart has always been and always will be indian – and may be thats why i never had to face these so called identity issues and i really cannot respond any tug of war of being a 2nd gen
I love being us, don’t you?
Nirva, sorry to read about your interaction with that racist dolt. That was so much crap for a name. I agree with floridian #94 – I would have a much harder time trying to preserve my name’s integrity ‘out there’ if it weren’t for my tech-type job where more than 1/2 the dev folk are desi.
I didn’t get the part about people finding it funny or non-racist for CBS to throw in the fob comment. or ‘whateva’. Whatever!! I don’t see how that sort of ‘communication’ is acceptable banter for the purposes of commerce. To me if I don’t know the other person the more likely I’m to keep to the topic at hand. Those comments were inappropriate at best and most definitely much worse. So what if the bike doesn’t sell for $80? The ad likely didn’t say – ‘offer $230 and you got a deal, offer $80 and you got a racial slur (or two)!’!!!
On the name thing – I too have a ‘clearly’ not american name, one most non-desis haven’t heard of. I have a whole schpeil worked out ala a for apple, b for bat etc. It takes me like 5 min to get my name down at the other end, so I MUCH prefer entering it online into accounts and such – faster, more accurate, and my vocal chords thank me for it!
What I find mind blogoling is how you’ve labelled yourself with a convoluted name to express just how simbly Indian your heart is 🙂
And how you’re on a cultural identity blog…
give in to the confusion, don’t fight it 😉 There are a lot of people whose hearts will always be Indian but that doesn’t mean they can’t be other things as well…
awww, you’re too kind. and too modest — you kick up a fuss with much eloquence yourself. 😉
i am actually in college and have dealt with my share of ABCDs and FOBs – from what i noticed, it is desi girls who most have these “identity” issues
Talk about issues-I went to school in Cali and the largest share of hatred resides in the ABCD women. Somehow desi boyz growing up in Americuh have no such hang-ups-heck a lot of them even go back to India and still do the arranged marraige thingy.
in my experience, it isn’t that girls in general have more “identity issues,” but rather, they are more obvious/vocal about being confused. my desi guy friends have had their fair share of issues with the desi community and trying to find their place in it, but they don’t talk about it like how the girls i know do. girls tend to publicly discuss/analyze all of their issues more in general (at least in my experience). i think the issue of figuring out one’s identity is something that all people, not just desis and certainly not just 2nd gens, can relate to in their own way.
Is that a polite way of admitting that you are all perpetually pissed, drama queens.
Sometimes the people behind the counter can be IQ-challenged. I once went to the cheesecake factory in SF and there was a waiting list to get seated. I went up to the counter to put my name on the list. Knowing that using my own name would keep the people behind me there for 15 minutes, I said my name is Zero. The woman at the counter promptly asked me and how do you spell that sir? Z-E-R-O. Z for Zebra, E for Ed, R for Russia, O for…Z-E-R-O.
This is over-reaction and stupid.
Nirva needs to grow up (and so do a lot of Noobie desis.)
An advice to all who think an americanized name is the way out. I am afraid, that’s not. Wait for some more years-the rise of CHINDIA- will ensure that the americans will have to tune their ear to more of these exotic names. Till then, may be use an alias but never change your name officially. That will be kinda removing diversity from the world.
That’s hilarious! =)
I usually give my name as a tamil or hindi curse at fancy resturaunts. its fun to watch the snobby resturaunt employee asking if there are any “rundi’s in the crowd…im looking for a rundi party”
Nice..I’m going to start doing this too. In NYC, with the large number of desis that you typically find in restaurants these days, I’m sure there’ll be amusement all around.
nirva…na
Identity issues run deep with youth of every culture. To disregard them and make statements like the above smacks of stupidity.
It’s not a surprise that both of these comments came from guys. If you get off your high horses perhaps you might take a minute to understand the gender issue when it comes to Indian culture and most Asian culture. Women always carry and always have the burden of conforming to and passing on culture (here and in India) hence the larger identity issues.
It isn’t exactly a secret in the diaspora that there are double standards in how boys are raised in the same family versus girls perhaps worse than they are in India and this is bound to cause conflict in a woman’s mind about right and wrong.
Heck I got past my issues a long time ago and I still question myself on the most silliest of choices because of the fucked up concept of the “good Indian girl”. I’d be damned before someone tries to tell me those issues are trivial because they are real for me and so many other women like me who grew up here.
For me it isn’t hard to comprehend that the women might have more conflicts than men. Perhaps those men that don’t understand and feel the need to put these women down might grow some maturity and understand them versus run off to India to find the girl to please mom who’ll leave at some point when she wisens up to the immaturity anyway!
v. amusing to see good ol’ ali g getting people’s knickers in such a twist with the borat persona – 🙂 boy does the US of A lack a sense of humour or what.
In certain situations, people have no problems pronouncing my name. How badly can you mangle a name like Monika, right? Interestingly, when they see my brown face, that totally trips them up: Monka, Moneeka, the variations are endless. It’s almost like they expect to have difficulty saying my name just cuz I have a brown face to go with a very common first name that happens to be popular in India! But on the phone, where they don’t see a face, no problem. They get it right every time.
Indian_Immigrant:
Actually, ABD’s get this kind of treatment all the time from the majority American culture. Perhaps you (1st gen) think that ABD’s are accepted as part of the majority, but they are not.
In my experience it was 1st gens who were quick to label ABCD’s, and the FOB label rose in reaction. Obviously different from your experience. So, neither of our experiences are definitive. Neither you, 1st gen, nor I, 2nd gen, is the exclusively injured party.
So, if you are concerned over the divisiveness in our community between 1st and 2nd gens, get over your bitterness first. You cannot expect that the divisiveness will be resolved by all 2nd gens falling at your feet and embracing your 1st gen perspective as the correct one (any more than a 2nd gen can expect the same from you).
I think the main beef 1st gen folks have is that 2nd gen women don’t go out with them, they will go out with all kind of specimens but haldly ever the home grown variety. 😀 That the root of resentment in my opinion
test
Wow, Desi Dawg is dumb. Village girls, so your “desi boyz” believe, are undemanding, obedient, and easily cowed. For guys like your boyz, domination of women can seem particularly rewarding. It compensates for all manner of other humiliations…
please read janeofalltrades (#174), she explains it better than i ever could.
(if you were being sarcastic/funny, forgive me for losing out on the humor, exchanging ideas over the internet has its disadvantages!)
Part of the problem , but overestimated IMHO. Most of my peer group here has come here after dating only desi back in India. The last thing most of us want to do here is date desi again here !
I have the opposite issue. I have never dated desi. would be interesting to date someone with a similar background to myself…
dude, i didnt know you were judging how much indian people are by their blog handle
either way – that argument should be in the “whats in a blog handle?” thread
do desi chicks ever stop having these confilcts – it never ends?!
ok here is a concrete example in my life: my parents have vocally expressed that i must marry an indian that speaks the same language as we do, while they have vocally expressed that my brothers may marry whoever they want, even though they would like it if they married indian. this double standard is solely because i am a woman, and because of that, they expect me to continue passing on indian culture to my children (which i will be expected to have). now this is not every desi girl’s problem, like i said, this is just my life, but this is a conflict in my life. i’ve been born and raised in america, and my american outlook contradicts my parents’ outlook. i love my parents and luckily i haven’t come to the point in my life where i have met the man that i want to marry and decide whether or not kids are for me, but if/when i do, that will be a tough situation. a situation my brothers will not be losing any sleep over.
JOAT is actually right in post #174, at least in my experience. Much of that applies equally to 2nd-Gen desi women in the UK too.
However,
Vaishnavi, you’ll find out if this is actually true if/when the time comes with your brothers. Desi parents frequently say one thing and then do something completely different in these matters.
(I’m speaking generally, I’m not saying your own parents are actually lying etc — no offence intended. It’s just that Indian parents often find themselves suddenly overcome with various negative emotions and the effects of their own parental/cultural condition, which results in them inexplicably reacting very unpredictably indeed in these issues, regardless of how liberal they may previously have claimed to be. Depends on the specific family, of course).
Typo, that should say: conditioning
jai singh, you’re absolutely right with parents saying one thing but doing another. i can’t imagine what it’s like trying to raise children in a culture that isn’t your own and trying to preserve your way of life at the same time. there are a lot of other things that my parents have relented on that they were previously against. but for me, i can say with a good amount of certainty that my parents truly mean what they say re:marriage and will probably stick to it, especially with regards of how they have reacted to my previous relationships and the relationships of indians with non-indians (or even indians that speak a different language). the point i was trying to make is that in my family, even if my parents do change their mind on this, this is an issue that i have to worry about and my brothers don’t. i was just trying to bring a real world example to explain why desi girls may seem like they have more “identity issues”– there are gender issues piled up on top of cultural issues. (ps, no offense taken)
Don’t all of us have fake names that we give out in bars/ clubs etc? I’m always Raj Patel. Just a sign of the higer profile that desis seem to have nowadays, many a chica has responded: Is that short for Rajeev? :)..
may i offer a counter position. gross generalization 1: in any culture, it is mostly the males who actively pursue their mates rather than the females. gross generalization 2: two desi siblings – one male and one female – may have similar phenotype and yet fall on different levels of the desirability spectrum. what is lissom for the woman is ‘gay’ for the men. what is busty for the woman is unfit or flabby for the man.
based on #2, your parents think you are way more desirable to the non-desi males than your brothers are to non-desi females. Based on #1, they are saying, sure boys – try all you like – you’re only going to hook up with some rancid femmes unless you go the arranged route. with you they are not so secure.
it’s an odd rationalization. you obviously love your parents and this is obviously hurting you so i felt compelled to speak up in a misguided attempt to comfort you.
general custard, thanks 🙂 i’m not losing any sleep over this, but there were just some posters here that were implying that the desi identity issue was mostly with the desi girls, and i was just trying to give some insight. i’m far too young to be thinking of marriage to ANYONE, indian, non-indian, whatever, so i don’t worry about it that much now.
Vaishnavi you will be surprised. My good friends, a couple who has been together since college couldn’t get both sets of parents to agree to them marrying after 10 years of being together and madly in love. Why? He is Pakistani and she is Hindu Punjabi, both of them born here but neither parents relented. They even separated for a year and were miserable.
Eventually both picked up and moved to California and just got hitched, away from the family in NY and without their blessings. Today they have a baby boy and everyone in the family is just fine and has come around. People get over it and get past it. If your convictions are strong and you aren’t marrying a loser, parents do come around at least in the west because they realize the loss of holding onto their ego at some point.
Hahahha brilliant.
I think ABDs need to lighten up and realize that there is a whole country of 1.5 billion people out there preserving your way of life, and they are not going anywhere. So you can go right ahead and live your own life and not give a damn, because Indian culture is going to be around even if you die your hair pink and marry into a West Indian voodoo cult, and it will do very well, thank you. I am not saying ABDs should not be involved with India culture, but they take this entire idea of the Indian way of life way too seriously.
After all, what Indians do is Indian culture, isn’t it?
blame mom and dad. he didnt name himself (im assuming)…
You really believe this is about “being part of desi culture and perserving it” isn’t it?
You live in a house you follow the rules of the house, generally willingly because you love your parents who have taught you to live life a certain way and raised with you much pains. You grow up and find out that it may not be all that it’s cracked up to be and you start questioning that way of life taught at home when it conflicts with the way of life outside in the real world. You know following a different life would hurt your parents.
Are you now saying that the kids should at that point tell the parents to fuck off?
I’m assuming you are saying that because I can’t imagine why you would bring up ‘preservation of Indian culture’ to counter someone’s identity issue as if that’s an issue in itself.
You assume incorrectly. They named him Gautama.
This happens everywhere, even in India. My parents and I disagree on virtually everything. I don’t see the specific ABD angle to this.
Kids grow up and they do essentially tell their parents that at some point. But politely. If you can’t, you learn to live with it.
These are universal issues. I don’t see how they explain the ABD situation. That is why I brought up the issue that maybe ABDs feel a special responsibility as a minority to preserve their culture.
I have had a number of close friends who were Chinese immigrants (or the children of immigrant parents) who had “American” names at school and “Chinese” names at home. When I asked why they changed their names, they explained that in transferring the written form of the name from Chinese characters to the Roman alphabet, there were some subtle features of pronunciation that were not conveyed. Also, they found that most Americans could not pronounce their names quite correctly and instead of listening to their names get butchered every day, they were more comfortable using an “American” name with Americans. I think that there are probably a variety of different reasons for people adhering to or changing their names, but for my Chinese-American friends, this was the reason that I heard most often.
Its a matter of keeping their culture alive in their homeland (USA), in their community, and in their families. No on is under the delusions that they are the last remianing desis on earth…