235 thoughts on “What’s in a Name?”

1. Good luck in selling your bikes and I hope you find the time to grow up as an adult who can conduct a business transaction in real English. Not pre-teen webenglish.

   That is just being too nice to some one who is as insulting as that CBS.

   I would paste this on Craigslist to let everyone know what a knucklehead this person is.

   Call him a racist…afterall he is one.

2. out inappropriately in relation to how they are pronounced (she’s a stickler for that shit).

   Vancouver-born artist Tobias Wong has created ingestible capsules containing silver leaf – for the sticklers amongst us who like to have their feces come out sparkling pretty, a work of art.

   brown…

3. No, no, I don’t mean anglicizing Chinese names. I meant anglican first names, like Raymond Chang, Eric Woo. They have these names printed on their business cards in English, but they will also have their real Chinese names printed in Chinese alphabets. This custom of the Chinese is only limited to the first name.

   Yes. I was talking to a chinese guy and he was saying that as soon as they join a company, the HR gives them their “english” name like Peter, Alice etc.

4. I find your comments Indian_Immigrant interesting. That’s definitely true that many first generation South Asian immigrants are dealing with quite awful stereotypes in the way of accents and derogatory terms like “FOB”. It is unfortunate that there’s such a disconnect between first generation immigrants and those born here. But not all “ABCDs” act this way.

   There’s a lot of us who are heavily invested in the South Asian community and working with people of all generations by being involved with local South Asian organizing movements.

   In truth as an “ABCD” (personally I don’t like this term at all….I sorta equate it with FOB) I had a lot of similar experiences growing up in a neighborhood and attending school where I made up 50% of the Indian population in my school (I was the only Indian kid in elementary school) and my family was the only Indian family in my immediate neighborhood for a majority of my childhood. My family and I went through a lot because of it. ItÂ’s funny because family tells you youÂ’re desi first, American second, but when you travel to India people make it clear that youÂ’re not Indian eitherÂ….ThereÂ’s no clear space for us either (at least I didnÂ’t feel much of one). ItÂ’s a frustrating feelingÂ…I didnÂ’t get a sense of belonging til I started organizing in the SA community.

5. • c for charlie, h for hotel, a for apple, t for tom, t for tom, o for oscar, p for peter, a for apple, d for david, h for hotel, y for yankee, a for apple, y for yankee.

   • other end: long pause and a failed attempt to repeat the above

   • No, there are two t’s after the first ‘a’ and there is no ‘a’ after the second ‘y’. (curses father for the 10,567th time for not settling for ‘chatterjee’).

6. – c for charlie, h for hotel, a for apple, t for tom, t for tom, o for oscar, p for peter, a for apple, d for david, h for hotel, y for yankee, a for apple, y for yankee. – other end: long pause and a failed attempt to repeat the above – No, there are two t’s after the first ‘a’ and there is no ‘a’ after the second ‘y’. (curses father for the 10,567th time for not settling for ‘chatterjee’).

   Hehe

   I always spell too…sooo frustrating sometimes.

7. I_I:

   There is such a huge disconnect between all this talk of South Asian solidarity when the fact is that there are huge walls of division in our community.

   I hear you on that, but the continued use of ABCD is not going to help it. If you are going to use a term that others equate with something as bad as FOB, then how are you helping? As someone who does not use the term FOB, or make fun of accents etc., I hear that and want to run the other way, not break down the wall. I would love South Asian solidarity, but I don’t want to be part of a group who considers me “confused” in a condescending manner.

   Nirva:

   ItÂ’s funny because family tells you youÂ’re desi first, American second, but when you travel to India people make it clear that youÂ’re not Indian eitherÂ….ThereÂ’s no clear space for us either (at least I didnÂ’t feel much of one). ItÂ’s a frustrating feelingÂ…

   Story of my (and probably many others’) life. So it seems that “ABCD” experiences aren’t so different from elsewhere-born desis who come to the States, other than, most probably age, and the number of people we have in our support system (I can recognize that growing up desi with parents and siblings is different than moving here alone in one’s mid-20s). And yet, despite this shared experience, we are told to suck it up and stop being confused.

   There’s a lot of us who are heavily invested in the South Asian community and working with people of all generations by being involved with local South Asian organizing movements.

   Yes.

8. hello my name is gopi sheth every one tells me to go pee and then sh$!

   Thats funny

9. It’s not just a problem with “ethnic” names. My husband’s last name, which I don’t use, creates just as many problems as mine (maybe I would have changed mine if his was “Jones”). Also even in India everyone gets my first name wrong because it is a somewhat rare name that sounds very similar to a more common name. So I have just become used to answering to anything in the right ballpark unless the speaker is someone I care about, in which case I correct them.

10. Story of my (and probably many others’) life.

    you know, being pretty self-absorbed the fact that i looked different from everyone else never really bothered me. but, i will admit that the only times i wished i was white was so that i would have white parents who didn’t expect me to grow and develop in a culture and yet still remain totally separate and apart as if we could go back to bangladesh when we closed the door behind us after school. now after 25 years in this nation my parents are starting to understand me i think insofar as the ‘homeland’ which they left no longer exists and they are aliens no matter where they are. i say: welcome to my world bitch! 🙂

    (though to be fair, i don’t perceive myself as an alien in america that much, my ‘tension’ in values basically ended at 8 when i realized i was an explicit atheist and my parents would never ‘get me,’ and nor would most americans who seemed to feel that this god entity was a normal part of their lives)

11. desishiksa,

    i love the jewish name ‘weiner.’

12. It’s actually a German name meaning “from Vienna” 🙂 But there is an inordinate number of words in yiddish that mean or imply “penis”. Someone should do some research into that.

13. I do not mean to be rude, but I’m assuming you’ve done your, bit, deshishiksa?

    (not meant in a rude way!)

14. As an anecdote, a professor I did some research with once had the old-school habit of addressing all his students as Mr/Ms . However, he couldn’t pronounce my last name at all, so I always felt like that was a barrier with him coz he did not want to call me by first name.

    A professor is a relationship for a semester not the guy behind the Starbucks counter. Don’t you think it’s worth correcting him and insisting that he learn it especilly if it puts you in a disadvantage by not doing so?

    My name is simple and people still screw it up. I’ll call and ask for someone and say it’s Rupa and the person will say something like “Hold on a second Ruth” hell even fucking ET at Universal Studios said “Goodbye Ruth” when it came my turn to pass him. I was pissed. People usually say Aruba or worse Rupaul. WTF it’s 4 letters, sometimes I find myself repeating the 4 letters about 6 times and then I completely insist they get it right and it ends up becoming a righteous fight. It’s stupid but it’s so simple and short WTF.

    The best are those that ask you on the phone “Oh what Nationality is that” or “Where is that from” and I’m appalled and usually will say “That’s American for you thanx” or if I’m feeling silly I’ll say Martian.

    My father was studying up in Syracuse in 1969 and shortened his name to Dino from Dinkar because he said people really just didn’t get it and simple things ended up being a huge task. Today I think our generation has the luxury of correcting and insisting people get it right. I however do anglocize my last name because the vowel used in Marathi just doesn’t exist in English.

15. I however do anglocize my last name because the vowel used in Marathi just doesn’t exist in English.

    Which one is that?

16. if I’m feeling silly I’ll say Martian.

    I can’t wait to use that one!

17. A lot of 2nd gens pronounce their names the anglicized way. For example, Ra-hool for Rahul or Soo-da for Sudha. I used to think this was lame but now that I’m older and wiser I don’t judge 🙂

18. Which one is that?

    It’s Gawle and it’s the LE part like KamAL for the lotus in Marathi or Sitafal in Marathi 🙂

19. KamAL for the lotus in Marathi

    Kamal is lotus in many languages, including urdu and hindi. Who knows even german, like hansa (example the lufthansa airlines) is swan in many indo-germanic languages. Another example is “ananas” – pineapple.

    Now to serious business, almost nobody mispronounces my name. Since 80s, I can only remember two people including starbucks calling me “koosh” – that is 0.0000001 % mispronounciation rate. Either, my name is very simple or I am too sexy. Latter is more likely.

20. i’ve recently adopted a “nickname.” as i grow older and more bitter, i have less patience to train american tongues. =)

21. Either, my name is very simple or I am too sexy. Latter is more likely.

    vah vah, kya bath hai!

22. Kamal is lotus in many languages, including urdu and hindi. Who knows even german, like hansa (example the lufthansa airlines) is swan in many indo-germanic languages. Another example is “ananas” – pineapple.

    Yes, but in Urdu and Hindi y’all don’t have the particular “L” that we have in marathi and the one JOAT is referring to… it’s an L that I’m proud to share with our South Indian fam-o… the long-lost cousins from whom we’re tragically estranged due to various twists of fate and history… indeed, the origins of marathi continue to be hotly debated…

    Marathizzz also have a long track record of abusive comments, which is due to the long track record of abusive epithets hurled at us by enraged aais and belligerent babas. If you’ll excuse the transliteration, such wonderful slurs include nalayak, nirlajja, ajagal, halcatt, bhadvya, ad infinitum.

    We then pass on this abusiveness from father to son, from mother to daughter, to their daughters and sons, and finally to internet forums for the whole world to share. I’m a victim of the system, can’t you see?

23. my street name is bob, silent bob.

24. So for some reason since 9th grade (I’m now in 11th) the teachers have goofed up on my name and pronounced it Norma. I don’t see how they could make this error considering the name is clearly typed with no ‘r’ in it. It’s almost as if they think it’s a typo and want to ignore what they see and go with prior knowledge that no one could possibly have that. I have disliked my name since I was 6 years old and plan on changing it when I turn 18. The incompetence of some Americans unable to pronounce my simple name makes me wonder if I should even have my new name still be of Arabic origin. I personally think that the incompetence is just in this current area since during my elementary and middle school years in different cities NO ONE ever had any problems with my name.

25. I have one of the most common Indian names: Seema. Even though it is spelled phonetically, people still have a hard time pronouncing it. The worst was middle school health class (that’s when we ;earn about reproduction…). I’m glad I don’t have some long villager name, but I wish my parents could have given me something with 1. a better meaning than limit, and 2. something more palatable to the avg American.

    As for the rift in the desi community, as an Indian born and raised in the U.S., I have felt more alienation from the INDIANS around me than anyone else. I’ve been called a “white-wannabe” because I have non-indian friends (which makes NO sense to me), and because I do not act super Indian. And that’s just the kids! The adults don’t like me because I have piercings, colored hair, I’m not a doctor but a designer, and I have a non-Indian boyfriend. How scandalous of me to assimilate into American society! Perhaps it is the Indians who still have their Indian mentality so deeply ingrained (very often FOBs) that cause the rift, not the “ABCDs.”

26. Yes, but in Urdu and Hindi y’all don’t have the particular “L” that we have in marathi

    Yup that one. The LE (curl your tongue inwards so it touches the roof of the back of your mouth and just let out a “AAA” sound) is common in some South Indian languages. I have a friend who is Marathi but from the south and traces his lineage back to Shivaji maharaj and apparently his brother went south and settled down there and there is an entire clan of Maraths down there that speak a Malyali Marathi mix. Fascinating.

    Either, my name is very simple or I am too sexy. Latter is more likely.

    It’s your sexiness KOOsh like SwOOsh baby!

    Marathizzz also have a long track record of abusive comments, which is due to the long track record of abusive epithets hurled at us by enraged aais and belligerent babas. If you’ll excuse the transliteration, such wonderful slurs include nalayak, nirlajja, ajagal, halcatt, bhadvya, ad infinitum

    .

    Word!! You missed kutra, gadhada and bhosada. 🙂

27. I have disliked my name since I was 6 years old and plan on changing it when I turn 18.

    To what? And you’ve disliked it because people can’t say it right?

28. I have disliked my name since I was 6 years old and plan on changing it when I turn 18.

    noooooooooooo maaaaaaaaaaaaa dont do it 😉

29. I have felt more alienation from the INDIANS around me than anyone else. I’ve been called a “white-wannabe” because I have non-indian friends (which makes NO sense to me), and because I do not act super Indian. And that’s just the kids! The adults don’t like me because I have piercings, colored hair, I’m not a doctor but a designer, and I have a non-Indian boyfriend. How scandalous of me to assimilate into American society! Perhaps it is the Indians who still have their Indian mentality so deeply ingrained (very often FOBs) that cause the rift, not the “ABCDs.”

    I’m very familiar with that scenario as I have fallen victim to the same “discrimination.” It’s even more so since I live in mini India (Bay Area, CA). I’ve always been told by Indian and even American people that I’m not Indian enough because I don’t show interest in Bollywood or other things that contribute to the “being Indian” factor. This BS mostly comes from FOBs who tend to hold on to their strong Indian mentality like NotConfused stated. It frankly is none of their business as to what degree of Indian I am. So I can see how the rift between “AB(C)D” and FOBs is created.

30. The name is Balasubraminiam, Balls to you 😉

31. Can I just put this out there? I really hate the term ABCD.

    Right on, Tamasha. Indian_Immigrant, there’s nothing justified in what you’ve experienced and what you describe, and I’m not going to defend it. But all of us have a responsibility to break the cycle and be the change.

    peace p

32. NotConfused (love the name) & kitkat: That’s pretty much what I was trying to say here, in terms of my experiences, although I emphasized the similarities of each group’s experiences. Like you, I’m not really into Bollywood, I’m not a doctor or engineer or lawyer or investment banker or any of the acceptable professions. But I do take a different kind of interest in my “homeland” and that’s not something I need validation for (anymore).

    I think we all see how the riff can occur, however, as I said previously, I don’t support the use of the either term (ABCD or FOB). I don’t think it furthers anyone’s cause.

33. Clearly the Piper is more eloquent than I. Which is why he’s the Piper. 😉

34. Nirva :

    I find your comments Indian_Immigrant interesting. That’s definitely true that many first generation South Asian immigrants are dealing with quite awful stereotypes in the way of accents and derogatory terms like “FOB”. It is unfortunate that there’s such a disconnect between first generation immigrants and those born here. But not all “ABCDs” act this way.

    There’s a lot of us who are heavily invested in the South Asian community and working with people of all generations by being involved with local South Asian organizing movements.

    In truth as an “ABCD” (personally I don’t like this term at all….I sorta equate it with FOB) I had a lot of similar experiences growing up in a neighborhood and attending school where I made up 50% of the Indian population in my school (I was the only Indian kid in elementary school) and my family was the only Indian family in my immediate neighborhood for a majority of my childhood. My family and I went through a lot because of it. ItÂ’s funny because family tells you youÂ’re desi first, American second, but when you travel to India people make it clear that youÂ’re not Indian eitherÂ….ThereÂ’s no clear space for us either (at least I didnÂ’t feel much of one). ItÂ’s a frustrating feelingÂ…I didnÂ’t get a sense of belonging til I started organizing in the SA community.

    Hey, maximum respect for giving back to the community. I can’t say I disagree with much of what you say.

    tamasha :

    I hear you on that, but the continued use of ABCD is not going to help it. If you are going to use a term that others equate with something as bad as FOB, then how are you helping? As someone who does not use the term FOB, or make fun of accents etc., I hear that and want to run the other way, not break down the wall.

    I’ll admit it’s not particularly constructive to use the word ABCD. Its more of a defense mechanism really, reaction to the numerous FOB comments.

    NotConfused :

    As for the rift in the desi community, as an Indian born and raised in the U.S., I have felt more alienation from the INDIANS around me than anyone else. I’ve been called a “white-wannabe” because I have non-indian friends (which makes NO sense to me), and because I do not act super Indian. And that’s just the kids! The adults don’t like me because I have piercings, colored hair, I’m not a doctor but a designer, and I have a non-Indian boyfriend. How scandalous of me to assimilate into American society! Perhaps it is the Indians who still have their Indian mentality so deeply ingrained (very often FOBs) that cause the rift, not the “ABCDs.”

    Have you ever been to India? Go check out Bombay, Delhi, Bangalore. yes there are plenty of punk rockers, headbangers etc there, with tattos, pericings etc. There are lots of creative types, filmmakers, artists etc. All Indians are not engineers or doctors. There is no such thing as an Indian mentality. More likely this is the mentality of your parents generation , which you presume to be one of all 1st gen immigrants or Indians. Its just another example of 2nd genners stereotyping 1st gen immigrants. India has moved on since the 70s. Equating the present values of 1st gens or Indians in general with your parents values is ridiculous.

35. ABCD is an acronym conjured up by FOB’s who were not accepted by them (ABCDs)

    FOB is an acronym conjured up by ABCD’s who didnt want to accept them (FOBs)

36. Oh yeah, if being into Bollywood is supposed to be a barometer of Indianness, then that would disqualify me and most of my peeps…along with large parts of South India ,North East India and much of South Bombay too .. 🙂 Don’t let anyone define your indentity for you…If you feel Indian you are, if you feel Indian American you are, don’t let closed minds judge you, I am 1st gen ‘FOB’ as you put it, I have friends who are all over the place, doing music and stuff, whatever makes you happy…

37. i think that the “indian mentality” is not a first generation construct, but a second generation construct created in response to the identity of their parents. some 2nd gens that i know have a very narrow idea of what is considered indian because of what they have seen/been exposed to by their parents and specific community, and they find others that have this same idea when they go off to college. in order to feel close to what they know as indian from home, they begin to find solidarity in those with their shared experiences. this in itself is not a bad thing, a very good thing in fact, but the problem comes when these 2nd gens start thinking that their indian experience is the only “true” indian experience and people that have a lot non-indian friends, aren’t into bollywood, can’t speak hindi, etc aren’t “indian enough.” especially when a 2nd gen indian grows up in a strong indian community that may be predominantly one subgroup of indians (like gujuratis, punjabis, etc), they think that they know all about being indian-american and fail to notice that the indian-american/south asian-american experience is diverse in itself.

38. India has moved on since the 70s. Equating the present values of 1st gens or Indians in general with your parents values is ridiculous.

    It has moved faster than any place on the earth except China. The change (for good or bad) you see in India in every sphere is astonishing. I have made 6 visits since 1999, sometimes, my jaw drops down when I was in Spice Mall in Delhi 3 months ago.

    Let’s leave Seema behan alone, she has other issues.

39. Indian Immigrant,

    It is strange that you take offence to people calling you FOBs while addressing them in all posts as ABCDs. Do you know what that term refers to?. Are you a troll??

40. Ignored and moved on. A response gives too much legitimacy to an immature instigator. These battles have to be fought elsewhere.

    first of all – this thread should have ended soon after this point being made!!!!

    btw – for all of you saying that you dont want to be judged by other indians on how indian who you – some of you have commented that you want to change your INDIAN name – this is classic ABCD kind of talk – and no one gives a f#$! what your profession is and you wont be called an ABCD because of it – it is because things like you complaining about minute things like above that people call you ABCD – get over it!!!

41. I’ve always been told by Indian and even American people that I’m not Indian enough because I don’t show interest in Bollywood or other things that contribute to the “being Indian” factor.

    Just my personal observation: ABDs are a lot more into Bollywood than FOBs.

42. it is because things like you complaining about minute things like above that people call you ABCD – get over it!!!

    ok i take offense to that. yes, many american-born desis are confused about a lot of things growing up. but so are a lot of kids!!! almost everyone at one point in their lives have disliked something about themselves, even for just a second, whether it be their name, their hair, their height, their voice, etc. that’s just being human. and as for being “judged” by other indians, this is a real thing, it really does happen, and for people that are on the “outside,” it can be an incredibly frustrating time growing up, especially when you add on your run-of-the-mill adolescent issues.

43. Perhaps it is the Indians who still have their Indian mentality so deeply ingrained (very often FOBs) that cause the rift, not the “ABCDs.”

    Most “FOB”s are Indians…and not Americans or Indian-Americans. They are Indians living in America..and often have a balanced viewpoint of both the cultures. They have a bigger perspective..having spent time in India and US.

44. Just my personal observation: ABDs are a lot more into Bollywood than FOBs.

    yea i’ve seen that too. i think it has to do with the fact that bollywood is a tangible thing that can connect you with “the homeland.” 1st gens get to grow up with “indian culture” around them 24/7, and 2nd gens need to create that culture, so they use bollywood as one tool.

45. vaishnavi :

    i think that the “indian mentality” is not a first generation construct, but a second generation construct created in response to the identity of their parents. some 2nd gens that i know have a very narrow idea of what is considered indian because of what they have seen/been exposed to by their parents and specific community, and they find others that have this same idea when they go off to college. in order to feel close to what they know as indian from home, they begin to find solidarity in those with their shared experiences. this in itself is not a bad thing, a very good thing in fact, but the problem comes when these 2nd gens start thinking that their indian experience is the only “true” indian experience and people that have a lot non-indian friends, aren’t into bollywood, can’t speak hindi, etc aren’t “indian enough.” especially when a 2nd gen indian grows up in a strong indian community that may be predominantly one subgroup of indians (like gujuratis, punjabis, etc), they think that they know all about being indian-american and fail to notice that the indian-american/south asian-american experience is diverse in itself.

    word. Great analysis.

46. ok i take offense to that. yes, many american-born desis are confused about a lot of things growing up. but so are a lot of kids!!!

    since when is being in your 20’s still growing up?!!!

47. first of all, i think that you’re still growing up in your 20s. compare a 22 year old out of college with a 29 year old: big difference. i myself am on the younger half of my 20s, and when i read this board, there are a lot of issues that come up that i have not begun to have dealt with. and people (of all cultures) go through periods of their lives when they question some part of them, this is not something that 2nd gens have a monopoly on. my indian cousins that have lived their whole life in india go through their own set of issues with the pull of rural v urbanization in their lives.

48. There was an ABD guy I knew in college… his parents named him “Anil.” What could possibly go wrong?

49. i am actually in college and have dealth with my share of ABCDs and FOBs – from what i noticed, it is desi girls who most have these “identity” issues

50. anyway, i’m just bring this up because i’ve heard the question mooted often “why do brown people keep their names and east asians not?” i think part of does have to do with attitudes toward assimilation, but i think with the chinese a big factor is that the linguistic chasm is too wide to really be bridged with any level of fidelity.

    around 60% of my friends are east asian and i grew up in an east asian country. my best guess on the higher proportion of anglicized names in east asian communities is directly related to the much higher number of christian converts in those communities. my best friend (east asian) told me that her family sees traditional asian names as being non-christian, heresy even. i have spent a lot of time around east asian christians and many personally chose or had their names chosen from the bible. the east asians with traditional names i knew growing up were almost always buddhist. even the indians i know with non-indian names tend to be christian, though times are a-changin.

    i know that in my (religious) community, a person’s name and the naming process itself is highly ritualized and sacred. many of us are given the name of a god/dess. witch doctors and magicks are utilized; it’s fairly intense. i’m not sure what the various east asian views are on the naming of a child. i have always assumed that it would be much more of a rebellion for a hindu person in my community to name their kid “michelle” than for an east asian family to do the same.