235 thoughts on “What’s in a Name?”

1. Simple answer: post his email to sepiamutiny and let the flames begin >:-)

2. How many desis do we know who have ‘Americanized’ names — or nicknames of cartoon characters to make it easier on other people to say your name?

   I am guilty of doing this at times. My first name is Purvi and when I order food in restaurants or am in Starbucks I use the name Courtney because it’s easier than trying to spell out Purvi. People have a hard time hearing the P and the R and often spell it Corbi. Also, when I am in loud places (e.g. a bar), people often think my name is Courtney. Often I don’t bother correcting them because I’m prolly never going to meet them again. Sometimes its just easier to do that, especially when 5 people are in line behind you and you have already spelled your name 5 times to the clerk.

3. Ignored and moved on. A response gives too much legitimacy to an immature instigator. These battles have to be fought elsewhere.

4. What is in a name? After all, names is why Kalpen Modi changed his stage name to Kal Penn – and saw an increase in audition calls subsequently.

   This is pretty common practice and not just for desis in US. Muslim and Sikh actors in Bollywood changed their names to more ‘Hindu’ names (Dharmendra, Devanand). Even in US, many Jews and Greeks (Jon Stewart, Jennifer Aniston). Name is everything when one knows nothing else beyond the name. All most all Chinese people I have met changed their chinese name to american name formally. But most desis resist that.

   I too use American name (online, restaurants) where my name or ethnicity doesn’t matter.

5. Yeah, ignoring this kind of crap is usually the only thing you can do. Since he doesn’t have the guts to say this stuff in person, it’s pure cowardly shit-talking.

   I have a feeling that the “Borat” character is not taking us (ambiguously brown foreigner-types) forward as a people. Despite the utter, worshipful reverence people seem to have for Sacha Baron Cohen’s brilliant idea of dressing up in a disguise and fooling people into saying embarrassing/ignorant things, I’m not so impressed. But that only makes one of me and a billion of you.

6. Yeti:

   But that only makes one of me and a billion of you.

   😀 . Make that two.

7. I have a feeling that the “Borat” character is not taking us (ambiguously brown foreigner-types) forward as a people.

   kazakhs and other non-south asians would be insulted, offended even, to be lumped together with black indians! go tell them that they are brown and see what they think.

8. Ignored and moved on. A response gives too much legitimacy to an immature instigator. These battles have to be fought elsewhere.

   Agreed. I would not have responded.

   I mentioned my thoughts about this during the Post Secret debacle. I get frustrated when people don’t want to try to use my full name, but often I use that as my scale for who is worth knowing. Bitchy, maybe, but it’s important to me, and better than deciding I don’t like someone because of his or her shoes.

   I often give the name of my dining companions, instead of mine, when reserving a table. Sometimes I give my last name, which is decidedly easier than my first. It’s not because I’m ashamed, but because often the host or hostess will walk through a restaurant calling a name that doesn’t sound like mine. I would hate to miss a table!

9. This is pretty common practice and not just for desis in US. Muslim and Sikh actors in Bollywood changed their names to more ‘Hindu’ names (Dharmendra, Devanand). Even in US, many Jews and Greeks (Jon Stewart, Jennifer Aniston). Name is everything when one knows nothing else beyond the name. All most all Chinese people I have met changed their chinese name to american name formally. But most desis resist that.

   circus,

   For every Jon Stewart, there is also a Salma Hayek, and Ingrid Bergmann. They both openly resisted to change anything. In fact, Ingrid Bergmann when asked to change quite a few things (name, accent, etc.) by the studios, threatened to walk out of the movie contracts. hold behold, the studios relented. Salma Hayek was on 60 minutes a few years ago, and discussed that issue at great lengthes. Sure Salma Hayek and Ingrid Bergmann are/ were white.

   Now to dharmendra, meena kumari, and suriya, they had screen names and real names. screen names were given for business reasons, and they openly acknowledged it. Dilip kumar for example. For lot of reasons, he used his real name. Also, when he married Saira Banu as his second wife. from 1980s onwards, that practice has been diminishing to a great degree.

   japanese americans are bringing back their original names – paging Razib

10. kazakhs and other non-south asians would be insulted, offended even, to be lumped together with black indians! go tell them that they are brown and see what they think.

    For a second I thought Macacaroach is back 😉 . But this certainly is not a good time to be a Kazakh in the US.

11. I too use American name (online, restaurants) where my name or ethnicity doesn’t matter.

    I cannot tell you how many times at Starbucks, restauraunts or whatever I’ve been asked “So, how do you spell Taz?” It’s almost comical. Almost. But it really doesn’t make it seem that I’ve saved any time going with the bhalu nam or the dahk nam. Same diff. in those settings.

12. as someone who once used to sing songs to his bike and race occasionally – let me tell you this guy is a poseur – there is no way that anyone who’s taken up cycling as a sport or a lifestyle would diminish a newbie in such a way.

    but maybe it’s the ignorance and arrogance of youth – or you know what – i really dont know much about the courier scene in the cities – even in toronto – these guys are jerks and need a whupping.

    if your buddy needs guidance on buying a cycle – please ask her to go to a regular store and talk with the guys out back with a little grease under the nails – not the smoothies up front.

    for that matter – if nirva’s single and available, you can ask her to ping me for advice at kholi number 420 (that’s an inside reference for Kush) 😉

13. advice at kholi number 420 (that’s an inside reference for Kush) 😉

    I know, I know. I think some others will get it too.

    My name is Anthony Gonsalves. There is a rumor that Arnold Schwarzenegger is considering a name change too – something Punjabi and simple.

14. japanese americans are bringing back their original names – paging Razib

    the names aren’t hard in the first place (flat and phonetic). but also, note that they aren’t usually pronounced the way they would be in japan because they aren’t japanese speakers (e.g., “yoshi” has a lilt in english that would sound strange in japanese).

    i mentioned this earlier, one reason chinese change their first names is that they are simply too difficult for non-chinese to pronounce because of the issues relating to tones. they do this even in east asia for purposes of international business.

15. Sensitive immigrant Part: umpteen.

    The expression “what boat did you come off” makes perfect sense if you put it in the context of the sale. The seller was (ungraciously no doubt) asking the question “where do you get brand new bikes for 80 bucks?” I’ve poked around and see used Nishiki’s sell for hundreds of dollars. That was the tone in the email. Snippy, but not hateful by any stretch of the imagination. CBS may have a point in asking which boat Nirva came off. He/she may be ungracious but no need get Mutineers’ panties in a twist.

16. And once the argument started there was only one way to go…

    CBS: blah bla bla, go eat some cake you cake eater. hey nirva you need to get those papers soon thats why you are too uptight. hurry up and go to the ins and stand in line

    That was, in George Costanza’s terms, “stickin it” to Nirva.

17. Now to dharmendra, meena kumari, and suriya, they had screen names and real names. screen names were given for business reasons, and they openly acknowledged it. Dilip kumar for example. For lot of reasons, he used his real name. Also, when he married Saira Banu as his second wife. from 1980s onwards, that practice has been diminishing to a great degree.

    Agreed. But even now in Bollywood people change their names but not for religious or ethnic reasons but for pure trendiness.

    For every Jon Stewart, there is also a Salma Hayek, and Ingrid Bergmann.

    This I don’t agree with. The number of people who kept (not keep) their original foreign/alien sounding name is not same as the number who changed to more main stream names.

18. Next time I go to Starbucks, I’m telling them my name is Taz.

19. kazakhs and other non-south asians would be insulted, offended even, to be lumped together with black indians! go tell them that they are brown and see what they think.

    Looks pretty brown to me.

    My point is not whether we collectively like being lumped together. Most people in my family (myself excluded) would recoil in utter disgust at being lumped together with Pakistanis, let alone Kazakhs (who are mostly Russian Orthodox and Muslim). I’m sure plenty of light-skinned Central Asians dis-love us. That’s not why I said what I said. Does he actually need to put on brown makeup? If he were portrayed as being from some “backwater” part of Pakistan, India, or Bangladesh, would we get a little more upset?

    Blah. Love ya, sakshi.

20. I cannot tell you how many times at Starbucks, restauraunts or whatever I’ve been asked “So, how do you spell Taz?”

    I have had similar experience. Now I insist how to pronounce my name properly. but I correct only those who matter to me. If you are going to be in the shop for five min what difference does it make what he calls you. One has to choose one’s battles. At the same time how many times are we able to pronounce east european/african last names properly. We are also guilty of generalizing attitude of whites. One has to be careful not to get into minority complex. A lot of times people just do not have understanding or patience or time to learn your name and say it. As far as racial comments uttered in bad faith should not be tolerated. one must confront the person making these comments even if one is not the target of those comments.

21. Unfortunately, you do have way too many assholes on craigslist (and many great people too). I think it depends on where you are. I’ve had awesome experiences with Craigslist in NYC and in the Bay Area. However, whenever I reply/send ads in Houston or LA, I usually end up getting some really obnoxious people replying to me or just people I’m not comfortable with when I meet/talk to them.

    I do think there’s a correlation with the local culture (what I feel when I visit these places). People living in NY and the Bay Area seem to be a lot more open to trying random things and more open to meeting new people (even if they are not well-known) and doing stuff together or using online forums to sell/buy stuff. Cities like Houston tend to be more cliqued, people kinda hang out in their own circles and are not very comfortable with doing things online.

    I wonder if others have had similar experiences to mine.

22. my point is this: why are you trying to deny the manifest blackness of south asians? central asians are brown, yes, but south asians are black.

23. JIC: “I too use American name (online, restaurants) where my name or ethnicity doesn’t matter.”

    Do you do this when name and ethnicity don’t matter, or when they become more of a direct disadvantage? Maybe it’s because I’m younger and not yet very active in the job force that I feel connected to my name, and actively try to get people to say Ravi and not call me Robbie/Robert/Bob/Reverie.

    Most people don’t understand that the Borat character is striving to make fun of cultural interaction at the expense of mainstream America, rather than at the expense of the Kazhak people (which makes his character that much funnier for me).

    I don’t understand the cake-eater comment. Would CL consider a complaint concerning the seller?

24. I cannot tell you how many times at Starbucks, restauraunts or whatever I’ve been asked “So, how do you spell Taz?”

    I have actually considered officially changing my name to make it something more internationally less ‘wierd’ (aka Gogol in The Namesake), because I do think it is something that is important in today’s world, especially since I would like to work in an international/globalized company after I graduate. I was wondering if any of you have done that sorta thing and what exactly is the procedure. It is definitely a very hard decision to make.

    As an anecdote, a professor I did some research with once had the old-school habit of addressing all his students as Mr/Ms . However, he couldn’t pronounce my last name at all, so I always felt like that was a barrier with him coz he did not want to call me by first name.

    I don’t mind people asking me the pronunciation/spelling as long as they do it politely. I do have trouble with spelling European names too. However, I use the shorter version of my first name, all of 3 letters (Raj) and I’m surprised that most Americans actually are acquainted with it!

25. my point is this: why are you trying to deny the manifest blackness of south asians? central asians are brown, yes, but south asians are black.

    Your point is to clown, clown, clown away. And that I can respect.

26. I do think it is something that is important in today’s world, especially since I would like to work in an international/globalized company after I graduate

    Do as you wish or makes you happy.

    Please trust me, name pronunciation does not matter. I used to work for a major multinational oil company [they are SMers (bloggers and commenters) who still work for mega multinationals, and they can pipe in too]. They were all sorts of names there – especially Russians. Russian expats are hot commodity as they are giant oil fields in Ruski land. They were people from Ajerbejian…… you name it. Like maybe, with new gas discoveries in Rajasthan, reading and writing Hindi might suddenly become an asset.

    Sure, in general, one thing I noticed that most of them at that company were better looking than average. That is a strong observation, I had. There was a really smart, well-educated Russian geoscientist [she died in a car accident] who was shortlisted for Dallas cowboys cheer leaders. She was trying it for fun and did not make the final cut.

27. black.

28. Circus

    This is pretty common practice and not just for desis in US. Muslim and Sikh actors in Bollywood changed their names to more ‘Hindu’ names (Dharmendra, Devanand).

    Your statement is true but you choose wrong examples. Dharmendra’s name is Dharam Singh Deol and there are plenty many sikh guys in Punjab with the name Dharminder (which is Dharmendra in Hindi).

    Dev Anand’s birth name is Devdutt Pishorimal Anand and he’s not muslim/sikh.

    Dilip Kumar (real anme Yusuf Khan), Meena Kumari, Madhubala would be more appropriate examples. and this has got nothing to do with religion. Hari Bhai Zariwala became Sanjeev Kumar and Harikishen Goswami became Manoj Kumar.

29. I was about to respond to circuswhen I saw that musical got to it first. Btw, Krishna Bhanji (Ben Kingsley) is a better example of what Taz (Tasneem?) is talking about. He has talked about it at length.

    Regarding circus’ assertion that “All most all Chinese people I have met changed their chinese name to american name formally. But most desis resist that.” I agree with it. I think it is a result of a vast number of Chinese immigrants wanting to be perceived as “white”. Go to Singapore and check out the racism you will encounter from Chinese folks there. They are quite open about it – try calling a Chinese landlord and he/she will tell you point blank that he/she does not rent his house to Indians. They seem to have been far more affected by colonialism than have desis.

    My advice to parents; choose any Indian name you want as long as you don’t choose something like Nishit Dikshit. Or Anal Bhatt.

30. I happen to be one of those few desis with an American name (it’s Brian), and yet most people tend to refer to me by my last name or some variation of it. And whenever I tell desi people my name they wonder why the hell I don’t have an Indian name.

31. Musical,

    You seem to know the intricacies.

    As an aside, technically Dharmendra is Muslim these days so that he continue to have two wives and not run into serious law problems. I do not think it has any real meaning though.

32. kazakhs and other non-south asians would be insulted, offended even, to be lumped together with black indians! go tell them that they are brown and see what they think.

    So, the black (oops, brown) bangladeshi nordicist is finally getting over his racial delusions. Or is he? 🙂

    The poster who is imagining that Borat is a fellow brown is playing the usual pathetic desi game of self-flattery by false ethnic association. You can be sure he wouldnt do the same if Borat had been an ethiopian, who are actually colored like desis unlike Borat.

    BTW, I just re-read “bangladeshi nordicist” and it cracked me up. 🙂

33. JayV (#15 and #16’s) comments make perfect sense. It is well known that bicycles are the representative form of commute for the average American, as opposed to cabs for Indians, and the backs of crowded trucks for Mexicans. In fact, there were a measly 240 million passenger automobiles registered in the US (link) as opposed to a whopping 4 million or so bicycle commuters. In fact, as part of some stealth legislation introduced jointly by Conrad Burns and Ted Stevens in the recently passed Military Commissions Act, border patrol officers can administer random instant price checks for bike components such as crankshafts and bottom brackets (but not derailleurs, they are French). The correctness of the answers will be judged by Bob Barker (they only want you to believe that he has retired from his day job, he has actually moved on to a higher calling) and the penalty for incorrect answers will be indefinite detention in Detroit. Of course, in the interests of fairness and to keep the procedure constitutional, there is an arbitration procedure, but it requires original receipts within 30 days of purchase.

34. Personally, I’m appalled by the way the MSM media are falling over each other to praise Borat. That this obviously bigoted bike-seller would trot out a Borat reference is very telling.

    Before dismissing this note as the rantings of a humorless crank, please consider the following alpha-conversion of the Borat outline, and ask yourself, is it funny?

    “Abhas Rahim, the well-known Sunni comedian from Tirkut, masquerading as Shlomo Cohen, an Israeli cooking expert from Haifa, travels around America, hilariously getting unsuspecting Americans to expose their inherent anti-Arab bigotry. Shlomo conforms the worst media stereotypes of Israelis–loud, impatient, unwilling to listen, pushy etc.

    One hilarious episode was when he turns up at a party in Washington for a pro-Israeli organization, in a serious discussion with a matron about whether cluster bombing Lebanese village to get the eggplants in the field well roasted for Baba Ghanouj…….”

    Well, if you thought that was funny, go ahead, go see Borat. otherwise, don’t see it, and tell your friends to Boycott it. It’s an insidious, racist, obnoxious, offensive piece of drivel.

35. What would you have done?

    Craigslist Bike Seller: what nirva, whateva

    My response:

    Sorry if you didn’t understand my question, I’ll rephrase it as I’m on the market to purchase a bike

    a) What is the condition of these bikes? b) What is your price

    If you’re looking to sell, I’d appreciate the information.

    • If the next reply was stoooopid, I wouldn’t waste anymore time and give the following response.

    Obviously you’re not interested in selling your bikes. From an economic standpoint, you’re actions are stupid. You may have got the best deal from me, but now you’ll never know. So be it. Good luck in selling your bikes and I hope you find the time to grow up as an adult who can conduct a business transaction in real English. Not pre-teen webenglish.

36. That movie idea sounds HIlarious! Put it on GooTube before somebody else does! And Shlomo just cracks me up when he does that bit about how you get crispy falafels to dip in the baba ghanouj, if you are lucky.

    Hmmm… I guess my sensitivity buds got burnt when the lynch mob came through town with torches last night.

37. CBS was offense but I agree it was just an escalated conversation. We live in a country with a racial hierarchy. I don’t know what CBS would identify as but she is ignorant and it is something you very clearly state and then move on from. there’s no need to hold a lifetime grudge, its not WORTH your time

    Borat…hm…humor is politics you know? In jokes there is a lot of truth and ability to get at what can’t be easily discussed otherwise. I don’t know if I will pay to see the movie but I think I will see it at some point. The bigger question is how we would react if Borat was American and the “jews in the well” song was about black Americans

38. We are not South Asian: Badrinath Subraminum, Sahindranath Mukhopadhyay, Siddharth Ghatlotkar, Vichitra Patnayak, Vivekaditya Gangdhar, Gurusharan Singh Tandon

    We are South Asian: Bud, Sach, Sidd, Vick, Vivian, Guru,

    Another reason to adopt ‘We are South Asian’.

39. We are not South Asian: Badrinath Subraminum, Sahindranath Mukhopadhyay, Siddharth Ghatlotkar, Vichitra Patnayak, Vivekaditya Gangdhar, Gurusharan Singh Tandon, Abhishek Chaturvedi

    We are South Asian: Bud, Sach, Sidd, Vick, Vivian, Guru, Abi

    Another reason to adopt ‘We are South Asian’.

40. Did you notice that CBS read backwards forms the initials of Sacha Baron Cohen?

    Just sayin’.

41. -Are both Nirva and the bike seller fresh off the boat? It was painful reading their dialogue.

    –Razib, what is your background in genetics? Just wondering.

42. You never know who CBS might be – it may very well be a fellow “South Asian”

    A Paki who saw the Indian name and thought he will play around or A Khalistani type who hates anything Indian (some of the most brown hating desis I have met unfortunately are second/third generation Sikhs in US/Canada who seem to be brainwashed with Khalistani thing)

    One thing I am not sure is, did the original ad say it is 80 bucks? If it did, I think I will go along reply #15 – CBS was being very sarcastic and was saying “which planet did you arrive from? Where on earth do you get nishikisport for 80 bucks??”

43. Get yer self-identification fix here: http://cafepress.com/thankucomeagain

    T-shirts concerning favorite desi gripes.

44. A Khalistani type who hates anything Indian (some of the most brown hating desis I have met unfortunately are second/third generation Sikhs in US/Canada who seem to be brainwashed with Khalistani thing)

    word.

45. After all, names is why Kalpen Modi changed his stage name to Kal Penn

    And why Krishna Bhanji became Ben Kingsley.

46. And why Krishna Bhanji became Ben Kingsley.

    robert zimmerman, bob dylan

47. macacaroach:

    The poster who is imagining that Borat is a fellow brown is playing the usual pathetic desi game of self-flattery by false ethnic association. You can be sure he wouldnt do the same if Borat had been an ethiopian, who are actually colored like desis unlike Borat.

    Get a clue. I’ve done the same repeatedly, and if you actually knew anything about me whatsoever you’d realize how laughable it is to try to declare that I wouldn’t claim direct association with Ethiopians and Africans in general. I’ve claimed that bond and lived that bond, so stop making moronic assumptions for the sake of hearing your own smug trollery as you sit safely behind the anonymity of a screenname.

    I’m not making a point about who we “should” or “shouldn’t” associate with. I’m making a point about who we get associated with given the social/political/national/racial attitudes of the United States. Some of you live in a bubble where this doesn’t appear to be happening (yes, I know, you were raised in a wealthy white suburb and all your friends are white but they were also liberal and Jewish and very understanding and you never had a problem with it etcetera), but for the rest of us who live in reality, it should seem clear enough. My personal views regarding with whom we should actually be associating are a different matter which I didn’t mention because it wasn’t the point.

    Bleeding Dil:

    “Abhas Rahim, the well-known Sunni comedian from Tirkut, masquerading as Shlomo Cohen, an Israeli cooking expert from Haifa, travels around America, hilariously getting unsuspecting Americans to expose their inherent anti-Arab bigotry. Shlomo conforms the worst media stereotypes of Israelis–loud, impatient, unwilling to listen, pushy etc. One hilarious episode was when he turns up at a party in Washington for a pro-Israeli organization, in a serious discussion with a matron about whether cluster bombing Lebanese village to get the eggplants in the field well roasted for Baba Ghanouj…….” Well, if you thought that was funny, go ahead, go see Borat. otherwise, don’t see it, and tell your friends to Boycott it. It’s an insidious, racist, obnoxious, offensive piece of drivel.

    I should be grateful that you agree with me on Borat, but I find your example disturbing. Frankly, I think that a light-skinned Arab could pass for being a white Israeli Jew, and in doing so uncover some very telling attitudes about Israeli racism, which, unlike the highly publicized and decontextualized Arab ‘anti-Semitism’, is actually quite prevalent and insidious.

    I’m actually all for making fun of each other, dissing each other, humorous and even vulgar satire. I really am. I don’t, however, appreciate cheap or easy shots, and I just don’t appreciate Cohen’s choice to pick on one of the few ethnic groups that is still safe to mock because they completely lack any kind of voice in the West. Since he couldn’t pick on Blacks or Latinos, and British Asians would (hopefully) have his balls if he pretended to be some provincial desi nutjob, and East Asians and Arabs have some kind of political voice as well, he went to one of the few ethnic groups for whom he knew he could get away with this crap.

    What time is it? almost 1AM. Some of us need a life, don’t we 🙁

48. Lots of ‘ABCDs’ talk in the same manner as this bike seller. Statements like “what boat did you just get off?” are often used by these guys while talking to so called “FOBs”.

49. hello, my name is satyadev

    but you can call me steve

50. I happen to be one of those few desis with an American name (it’s Brian), and yet most people tend to refer to me by my last name or some variation of it. And whenever I tell desi people my name they wonder why the hell I don’t have an Indian name.

    Good point. Not all South Asians/desis/whatever have names thst orginate from South Asia. That doesn’t make them any less desi, although I’m sure they get that a lot.

    Paging (as they say) Anna…