Every time we’ve discussed domestic violence on this blog we end up having the same debate – “Is domestic violence worse amongst desis?” – without having any facts. However, thanks to a recent WHO study of 24,000 women in ten countries, we know a bit more about the way that one desi country (Bangladesh) stacks up to nine others outside the region:
Domestic violence in urban Bangladesh is worse than any of the six other countries where urban domestic violence was measured, and domestic violence in rural Bangladesh is the third worst of the relevant eight countries, after Ethiopia and Peru.
How bad is it? 
In Bangladesh, a cross-sectional survey of women aged 15-49 years was carried out, with 1603 interviewees in the capital city Dhaka and 1527 in the rural area Matlab….Combining data for physical and sexual violence, 53% of ever-married women in Dhaka and 62% in Matlab had ever experienced physical or sexual violence. [Link]
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p>Nor is this the kind of violence that apologists can simply wave away:
In both sites, one in four women who had experienced physical abuse by a husband reported that they had been injured at least once in their lifetime; a third of them in the past 12 months.Among women who had been injured, 68% in Dhaka and 80% in Matlab needed health care at least once as a result of their injuries.
10% of ever-pregnant women in Dhaka and 12% in Matlab were physically abused during at least one pregnancy. Of these, 37% in Dhaka and 25% in Matlab were punched or kicked in the abdomen. [Link]
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p>Much of this violence is hidden from view:
In both sites, 66% of women who were physically abused by their husband never told anyone about the violence…Only 5% of physically abused women in Dhaka and 7% in Matlab ever sought help for the violence. [Link]
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p>Why is domestic violence so high in the one SouthAsian country tested, and is it representative of the region as a whole? My guess is that domestic violence in Bangladesh is high because women have relatively low levels of education and therefore few economic opportunities outside the home.
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p>That would be consistent with the fact that DV is higher in rural than urban settings. If I had the time, I’d graph rates of DV against female literacy, I’ll bet they correlate quite well. [I’ll see if I can do so tonight].
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p>If the lack of female economic empowerment is indeed closely related to rates of DV, then one would expect this to hold for the region as a whole, and for inter-regional variation to follow female literacy as well. [Does anybody have rates within India?]
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p>Is there a cultural / religious component to this too? I can’t tell since Bangladesh is the only Muslim country tested, but it is worth noting that the two countries with worse rates of rural DV are both very heavily Christian countries, and that Thailand and Japan (both Buddhist countries) have quite different rates of DV. My personal opinion is that the economic factors are primary.
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p>I suggest reading the country summary for Bangladesh (which is short), or the introduction to the report as a whole.
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p>Related posts: National Sexual Assault Awareness Month, Misogyny kills, Seeing the in-laws
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DQ I’m very sorry to hear that and for what its worth personally I admire you for being a strong, proud and independent woman yourself.
Yeah I agree with this and think in general our societies are healthiest when we dialogue and allow the good forces within our communities to access problem areas. Its like allowing a wound to breath.
Another problem I believe with DV is that, it’s probably hard for anyone in a DV situation to leave, regardless of class, ethnicity, or whatever else
Thanks very much for the kind words Sahej.
To be fair to my father, he was under a lot of personal stress and hated his marriage too – he stayed in the marriage because that’s what good Indian men do. Men get screwed over by social isolation and patriarchy also.
Sorry, but this is a really bullshit anecdote. I grew up playing with GI Joe, have fought back bullies, been one, etc. I think dropping bombs on terrorists is perfectly ok.
But there is no way in hell I’d condone or conduct domestic violence. Nor do many who believe dropping bombs on terrorists or fighting back a bully engage in such activities.
Also as a general note, I don’t think any one here is saying DV doesn’t happen in communities outside the poor and illiterate, and just because of lower rates it isn’t a problem. Only that the instances and rates are far higher in those. It is a readily quantifiable value that one can see, as Razib states, is inversely correlated to DV.
Razib unfortunately this is the core of the issue. Little to no recourse for the woman. And this is to back up what DQ mentioned. My mother is a successful surgeon and when she divorced my father her parents threatened to disown her if she didn’t make it work! In fact they did not support her decision till several years later. Yeah they came around whatever but if it is possible in the most progressive desi family I have known I’d hate to imagine what would happen for women with lesser opportunities.
In my defence, I only beat them all because I love them so much. Also, I really really love pavement dwellers.
I disagree. DV is symptomatic of needing control and having no respect for the other half and less about simply acting out one’s violent tendencies.
Punching a bully and dropping bombs on a terrorist has positive connotations to it, it corrolates with protection and honor. DV is NOT the same thing.
this is very true.
I’m convinced, the system is geared to cause suffering. It’s awful that such an ancient culture with a history of amending itself (in a philosophical sense) has got this component of life terribly wrong.
a minor note, i think controlling for variables divorce is more acceptable among muslims (at least in northern india). divorce is not thought of highly, but it is not unknown in my extended family in bangladesh (again, let me note that all the women in these circumstances had familial or personal resources). guju, don’t respond to bidi, that’s just feeding the assertion-monster.
Razib and Dharma Queen,
Am really appreciative that the two of you have shared such deeply personal stories on this topic — thanks a lot — it takes a lot of courage to do that — also, I think in sharing such stories you dispel the notion that ‘these things happen to people we don’t know’ …that was my point when I started talking about sharing stories — for all of us SM readers here, I hope that this makes us think about DV at a more personal level than to say that it happens to other people – and I sincerely hope it makes us more sensitive so that when we see someone going through it we reach out in any which way we can. Thanks again.
Wives know how to push their husbands buttons. We have to take into consideration the amount of provocation. Some of us steak eating, beer drinking men can only take that much bs/provocation from our wives before we lash out physically. I think we focus too much on the beatings and not enough on the provocation.
Naipaul’s writings imply that beating your wife was the first task a married man was expected to embark on. It’s hair-raising when read today.
DQ. Thank you for your moving personal story. I do want to respond in a somewhat academic vein to one part of it, though:
The fact that she had an education, and therefore a profession of her own, allowed her to leave when she chose to do so. You’re right that people stay for reasons other that financial necessity. But none of those lock a person in quite as strongly as the inability to survive financially outside the marriage.
HMF said:
I think you’re making the assumption that all bad things (or things you feel are bad) about desi marriage must go together. I’m afraid I still don’t see the logic. You might be right in as much as arranged marriages might be harder to break than love marriages. However, it’s not clear that choosing your partner leads to a less violent situation than having one chosen for you (or having the selection constrained).
This beautiful wisdom imparted to mankind rings as true today as it did 1400 years back:
From the Noble Quran,
Ah! What beautiful wisdom. Here is the playbook for all of us to follow.
A slippery path to tread that one! If someone brings up provocation it’s easy to accuse the person of blaming the victim. But I think it is a good approach to reduce the DV and is not given enough attention. Does anybody know if organizations use the approach at all?
Brother Vinay: Are you a follower of the beloved prophet as well?
At the same time any suppposed words of wisdom which put violence as option should be criticized.
At the same time any suppposed words of wisdom which put violence as option should be criticized.
No. The physical punishment is the last step in the discipline process. Admonishment and couch are the first steps. Also the provocation here is pretty serious – disloyalty, ill-conduct for example talking back!
No Al, I am a Jain. We believe in doing all we can to reduce violence in this world 🙂
Violence, I’d argue, is a extreme response to frustration. In a “domestic” context, your brain is processing all kinds of negative emotions of a SEEMINGLY INTERMINABLE SITUATION (ever been in a bad job, and want to leave, but know you can’t?) These negative emotions need a way to be dissippated and I’d say, violent acts – (whether it be breaking things, throwing things, inflicting boddily harm, etc…) do exactly that. it’s not justified, it’s not right, but that’s a sensible identification of a root cause, IMO.
If a marriage partner AND TIMING is chosen, and the situation turns south, is it that far fetched to assume the tension would be compounded with resentment that the participants were placed there against their will? Or at the very least, were coaxed, cajoled, chided, guilted, etc… into it? Again all this doesn’t necessarily imply violence. My assertion is that a person with already pre-existing violent tendencies would find more reason to act out those tendencies given a higher stress atmosphere.
In my books no provocation can justify violence. Resorting to violence is a new low that makes you worse than the person who provoked you to. Wisdom is in not heeding to the provocation.
AMD standing in for Spoorlam?
not nessicarily a rabid sentiment. all of these religious books say really warped out, screwed up stuff. its just not considered right to point that out, because they are all “holy”
AMD standing in for Spoorlam?
I am a poor and lame imitation of Spoorlam. He is the master.
I wonder if non desi Muslim men ever use the Quran to justify their violence against women. From what I can tell, that excuse does not have any social acceptance in the desi Muslim community.
Wait do men actually justify DV against women or they just do under the guise that they won’t be put to task for it?
a little form column a, a little from column b. sometimes people just think i can get away with this. then, when they go to church/mosque/etc. and hear things about how they should be good, etc. they need to reconcile their actions with their belief in whatever the religion says, so they use these warped out passages from these books to dream up a justification as warped out as any other belief.
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Also one other factor that needs to be recognized is that society tends to favor rationale that keeps the health of the society sometimes at the cost of the individual. Whether the rationale does what it intends is another question. But this factor is a driving force for affected parties in tolerating DV like in the example of DQ.
It might be difficult to convince women who voluntarily become party to DV, society should therefore eradicate any justification that men may use for violence against women.
I don’t think there is a single reason why DV happens. It exists in affluent families and also in poor families, though the extent differs. To summarize,
And the reason womens chose to stay in the marriage a) Lack of financial independence for woman b) Lack of societal support for divorced woman c) Existence of children d) Lack of emotional strength to live alone
In South Asia, a & b I suppose are bigger reasons why DV is prevalent. In US, c&d are bigger reasons than a & b and DV is less prevalent.
My parents had lots of tensions and fights. Now that I am married, I have to make a special effort not to resort tensions with my wife with violence. I may not be always successful :(. HELP
“My parents had lots of tensions and fights. Now that I am married, I have to make a special effort not to resort tensions with my wife with violence. I may not be always successful :(. HELP”
Another Guy,
I don’t think you are alone in trying very hard to not repeat scripts…I read somewhere about how children who see DV tend to repeat it as adults if they don’t seek help. I think Narika has a men’s outreach program if you are in the Bay Area – it sounds like you are at the point where you are trying hard not to repeat your parent’s experience — which is commendable….Don’t know if it will be useful but Narika has a helpline 1-800-215-7308. Maybe they can suggest solutions. Also, there are a lot of resources online I think if you would like to seek some form of intervention so you don’t do something that you will regret….
Marriage research (and conflict resolution) now classify marriage into three primary categories: supportive (affirmative) marriages, volatile marriages and disengaging marriages. They all work, so long as positive contribution to the marriage is 5X larger than the negative expectations. This assumes marriage where divorce (separation) is a possibility.
Marriage starts to get inequitable when you addin factors of financial control, where one partner is the provider. It is this power situation, combined with a violent tendency, that cause DV. And, I don’t think that alimony is the answer, because I think it encourages men to stay in a bad marriage to avoid a financially crippling situation. So, even in situations where divorce is the right answer, I think people hang in the “bad” situation to avoid various consequences.
Also, like DQ mentioned, a lot of people hang in marriages because of the children…both men and women.
if you are a short or normal sized brown dude marry a tall nordic chik who you can’t push around 🙂 there are other side benefits aside from constraining tendencies to evil….
It is a travesty that Bangladesh has such a high incidence of DV.
I encourage you all to check out the YWCA USA’s Week Without Violence information (www.ywca.org). The YWCA has been really influential over the years in pushing legislation that provides legal protection for DV victims in the USA
DV has a lot to do with power and control– victims often cannot leave their abusers due to a complex guilt pattern that emerges. A majority of the students I work with in the Bay Area have parents who are extremely abusive, with many fathers physically abusing mothers and children. Many of my girls are in relationships where boyfriends are also abusive– the cycle of violence and power continues in a horrific way. I worked at an orphanage for abused children in Costa Rica for a time– there is nothing so awful as to try and comfort an 8 month-old baby who has bruises and welts on both arms and legs.
The mere access to education does not free a victim– the ability to leave the abusive situation and recover in a safe environment is extremely difficult and requires tremendous support.
DV is a social disease that can be cured if we are willing to take a stand for one another.
Hmm, AMFD, it’s funny how men seem to skip over THIS piece of advice…
but seem to follow the admonishment-and-beating doctrine so well.
Big ups to anyone who spoke out about DV and divorce issues from their personal lives, that’s a really hard thing to do but it’s given others more insight into the issue and information = power 🙂
No one has commented here about how reporting can affect accuracy. In more “educated” communities, domestic violence may go less reported and even better hidden. So it’s hard to know whether there is actually a correlation between education/social status and domestic violence–if anything, it clouds the issue because upper class and more educated folks are more likely (in my opinion) to keep things under wraps.
Two myths, taken from (I know, I know) a prosecutor’s web site:
Ennis:
Agreed that a good family support system and education helps (though not always) a woman to get out. It certainly helped me get out of an abusive marriage. However, said education/support system didn’t prevent the actual abuse from taking place. We’re talking about the occurrence of domestic violence here, which seems to transcend education/status/breeding. You’re muddling two issues.
Nope – I agree entirely. I’ve said several times in the comments before this that education (of the man) does not prevent DV from happening, however education (of the woman) gives her a route to self-sufficiency and allows her to leave if DV occurs. Read back, I don’t know how I could be any clearer here.
For example, see what I wrote in comment #34.
Ismat I don’t think anyone disagrees. However don’t you believe that with increased awareness and levels of education the rate at which DV occurs goes down? One cannot disregard the relationship of awareness and education to DV. By saying it doesn’t matter if a man is educated DV still occurs is a bit defeatist. It’s a societal ill that can be cured with the right education and attitudes and support from society. Don’t you think so? What is your take on it?
Ennis, OK, I missed that comment. Agreed. But still, while education helps a woman with the resources she needs to get out, it is not necessarily a motivating factor in getting out. Furthermore, just because a woman is educated doesn’t mean that she is less susceptible to abuse or that the abuse doesn’t happen. In fact, I’ve noticed that other factors play a stronger role in whether a woman eventually gets out. It was certainly true in my case–and I was a women’s studies major who volunteered at DV shelters before marriage!
JOAT:
I don’t think it’s defeatist at all. What type of education are we talking about? A man can have a PhD and still abuse his wife–how much enlightenment did that schooling get him? (And I’m not pulling this example out of the air. Or, like my ex-husband, have a master’s degree and make heaps of money. We really need to focus on a different kind of education–one that must begin in the homes from both mothers and fathers–that abuse is not OK. It’s societal attitudes toward women and power that need to change, and I’m all for educating our sons and daughters about that.
Agreed, Ismat. I’m not saying that educated women never stay in abusive marriages. Again, I acknowledged as much to DQ. However, educated women who have an ability to work on their own have options that women in poor rural Bangladesh do not.
When we look at the very first chart, we see a lot of variation between countries, as well as between urban and rural population centers. I think the big reason why some places have more DV and others have less is because the places with less are those where women are more financially independent, and those with more are the places where women have no options.
I acknowledge your individual story and many others like it. However, that still doesn’t mean that we don’t see broad inter-societal variation that must be explained. My explanation for those big trends has to do with differences in female financial independence. Women in societies where it is hard for them to leave abusive marriages will experience more abuse than those who live in societies where they have more options, and therefore are more likely to leave.
For example, you could leave. You weren’t trapped in the marriage with the awareness that if you left, you would have no access to land, and therefore no food to feed yourself or your children. And in the end, you did.
It’s a hypothesis, but I think a fairly sound one.
good summation ennis. observing a trendline does not negate deviations from the trendline. observing deviations from a trendline does not negate the trend.
Ennis, you make good points. But how do we measure the intangible aspect of shame/societal/cultural expectations and how it affects whether a woman leaves? I mean, what if she can take care of herself financially but still feels the burden of social and cultural expectations, thereby keeping her in the marriage?
I understand and respect your hypothesis, but I don’t know of a way to test it against the issue of shame/family/”staying for the kids” etc. So if she’s educated, stays regardless of said education but due to other factors, how is education really affecting the occurrence?
I’m not saying I have an answer, just posing what I think is a very valid concern. And if it sounds muddled, I apologize–it’s the end of the work day and my brain is fried–I need to get out of here!
My general assumption is that education opens one’s world up wider allowing for progression and new experiences that allows a man to be more aware of his actions. Because there is a direct relationship with higher education and lower DV occurance. But I absolutely agree that education to respect women begins in the home.
Where is this info from? And does it take into account underreporting?
ismat, ceteris paribus. there are multiple independent variables at work here. ennis is focusing in the most tangible and quantifiable aspect, and i think that is a good place to start because palliation seems relatively straightforward. education is not a sufficient condition for banishing the problem, but it may be a mitigating one and a necessary one.
Or probably just as important, having financial options for women. It would be interesting to use a matching algorithm to compare DV in areas where Grameen has operations and those where it does not. Hopefully the ability of women to earn money independently gives them new options.
Ismat:
That’s a good question. However, most of the third world countries in the survey would appear to be fairly traditional. I don’t know if the burden of shame and guilt is more or less in Peru vs. Bangladesh.
I also wanted to focus on the most concrete steps we could take, as Razib points out. It’s harder to rewire an entire culture (let alone multiple cultures around the world), it’s easier to empower women with education and let them do it.