Clearly, some of you were good little boys and girls in your youth. That means that you are conditioned to associate the words “uncle”/ “auntie” and the vernacular with respect. You can’t help it. If this was just Plain Jane, the 50 year old down the street, you might be polite and pleasant, but if somebody who calls herself Bunty Auntie starts speaking to you in your mother tongue, you snap to like a pointer.
This account comes from Sleepy’s blog “Watching the Sun” but I’ll bet you have your own auntie experiences:
One morning, while back, it was 4am and I had been asleep for fifteen minutes. I was woken up by a phone call and I was a little, I don’t know, pissed off?Me: (barely making sense through all that incredibly righteous indignation) Hello?!
Her: Hello Beta, this is Shabnam aunty!
I usually tend to wake up very quickly when someone calls herself aunty and speaks in Hindi/Punjabi/any language my twisted little psyche associates with authority. Seriously, wouldn’t you? For the life of me, I couldn’t figure out whether I knew Shabnam aunty, but I wasn’t too surprised, my mom often makes friends who call me at random times to you know, chat. [Link]
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p>Now me, I would have just hung up. Uncle, Auntie, I don’t care. Don’t call me at 4AM unless you’re blood of some sort, a close personal friend, or an early morning booty call [the last was added after Jeet reminded me of such things 
]. But an auntie I’ve never heard of? Clearly, Sleepy is made up of sugar and spice and everything nice and I am not because she continued the conversation:
Me: Um Hi?
Her: How are you Beta?
Me: Good aunty, how are you?
Her: I’m fine beta, give the phone to mummy now.
Me: ????????? Um, aunty, mom’s at home, not here.
Her: hahahahhahahah, so cute.
Me: (o.k., seriously, wtf?! and I start talking in Hindi as well, cuz you know, maybe she’ll believe me) She’s at home, do you want her number?
Her: Enough now beta, give the phone to mummy. (All stern like, velvet glove/iron fist stuff, which ya know, doesn’t sit well with me, ever)
Me: Mummy isn’t here.
Her: Are you making fun of Shabnam Aunty Beta? That’s not very nice. (o.k., this is what she said, Beta, aap Shabnam aunty ka mazaak uda rahein hain? Bilkul theek baat nahin hai. It was like she was flirting with me )
So yeah, we went for a few more rounds and then I hung up. ON. AN. AUNTY. [Link]
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p>The next morning, of course, Sleepy felt remorseful:
I don’t know, probably shouldn’t have hung up on her because what likely happened is that she called the right number and chewed out right number’s children for being cheeky, obnoxious heathens. And then had the kid’s mom chew them out, and the dad, and the grandma etc. etc. And then they probably got chewed out for bringing shame on the family cuz Shabnam aunty’s very fond of gossip… [Link]
Personally, I don’t get it. Maybe it was my particular family upbringing, maybe it’s because I’m a boy, maybe it’s because I’m just too much of a coconut. I understand what Sleepy is saying, and while I think of myself as being reasonably nice, the title “uncle” or “auntie” just doesn’t cut any ice with me. Will I be going to a hell that I don’t believe in, populated solely by aunties bent on making me miserable? How many of you salivate automatically when this particular bell rings?
Just kidding! Warm friends as in people you’ve known a long time and good conversation.
Geez….
It’s like living in a Wodehouse story!
DDiA,
As we say in Bengali, Aunties aren’t Bhadralok.
(Not sure Wodehouse ever conceived of the hot young Aunt…)
Folks – Stop calling me Beige Sage. Its BEIGE SIEGE.
Noooooooooooo!!!!!!!!! Please!
this is gonna sound v dumb but what does ‘pavlov’ mean?
Every time I read the title of this post I think of pavlova, then I get hungry. I’m guessing you’re not comparing aunties to giant meringe-and-cream desserts.
Being in my late twenties I find it very difficult to call anyone who is younger than 40 an ‘auntie’ or an ‘uncle’. There’s especially a lot of confusion with people who are less than 10 years older where a person might want to be referred to as uncle/auntie while their spouse wants to be called bhai/bhabi/first name.
So I have many cases where X uncle’s wife is Y bhabi and W bhai’s wife is Q auntie.
Tashie, given Ennis’ use of the word “salivate”, Pavlov refers to the psychologist/physiologist who developed the “classical conditioning” theory. He’s implying we’re submissive to Aunties or Uncles because that’s just what we’re trained and conditioned to do instead of acting logically or rationally.
Amitabh:: alrighty then. But I’m telling you, I’ll know it if you’re holding back or patronizing 😉
It would be unnatural of me if I purposely abstained from expressing my middle-aged, first-gen views on the topic of the infamous desi age hierarchy. I enjoy Sepia Mutiny and try to remain age neutral when writing my posts. I learn a lot from the youth that populates this site just as I learn from my own ABD, my 14-year old daughter. Compared to the knowledge, awareness and sensitivity I have found in the second-generation ABD’s, I think my generation that grew up in India was terribly deprived indeed. Some of us, especially the academically inclined, might have had all the knowledge but not the same refined perspective.
Back to my intended comment. Growing up in India, we had the exact same Auntie issues as you do. The more things change,… you know the rest. We resented the subservience to age because the older generation didn’t have to do anything to earn it except get old. It was almost a parallel to the caste system.
In the 33 years I have spent in America, the one thing that has become ingrained in me is that value is based on accomplishment. No accident of birth, no biological or sociological quirk is supposed to confer anything on you. There are plenty of exceptions, but America is still a meritocracy that works. So obviously, the Auntie-ji syndrome is in stark contrast with everything that is good and worth preserving about America.
But as I have aged, I must confess I find a certain comfort in some of the rigid Indian values that, ironically, exempt you from meritocracy. It is nice to be respected by the youth for who I am – just a 54 year old man. No need to show further credentials, resumes or past accomplishments. There are a number of groups that I belong to where you are sized up and slotted in the hierarchy according to what you bring to the table. And that’s fine. But I cherish my desi society here and in India as a haven where the rules are suspended and respect offered, all for the sake of one little personal attribute, one minor accomplishment that will be freely available to every human being some day – age. And that boys and girls, is egalitarianism of a different feather.
Floridian,
I appreciate your perspective and my parents have voiced similar opinions. In most circumstances, I whole-heartedly act respectfully to older folks. And, if you are like my parents, I do think you present “credentials” when you are within the desi community. You are a father, you have worked for the past 33 years, you are a contributing member of society, and you have 54 years of life experience. Anyone who meets you will likely know these things just by looking at you (not to indicate that looks can’t be deceiving, but I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt). There is no card for these accomplishments but they are all accomplishments that ought to be admired and they are accomplishments that some of us have yet to achieve. So, if you were to offer friendly advice on family, career, or some other area in which you have all this experience, wouldn’t it be in my best interest to at least listen? I would only ignore your advice if it was in an area to which I know that you have never been exposed, or if I think you are a complete crack-pot, which is something I very much doubt.
Wow is right.
So far I’ve learned that I’m six months away from being an old lady (What’s up Bidismoker!) so please just excuse me as I cut through some massive childishness:
Isn’t it time to find another activity betas/betis?
If DharmaQueen has been taught to view Aunties as something less than desirable (even in jest), please, consider that she espouses a view that is not all that inclusive.
Vikram, my new, somewhat younger Punjabi neighbor addresses me as Prithaji, comes over with Trader Joe’s snacks and beer. This is awesome, in my opinion. My wish is all of my neighbors, presently and in the future, do the same.
Finally, if I were to meet you in person, Floridian, I wouldn’t call you Uncle. I would call you Older Brother–unless you specifically asked me to adress you otherwise. So taking a little liberty, thank you Floridian Da, for what you wrote. Elegantly put and to the point.
\”In the area of India where I resided it is not uncommon for young men to have their first sexual experiences with older married women.\”
Are you serious? One may get killed if caught having an affair with a married woman and very few married women will risk their marriage and life to have affairs with young men. It is true that some young men(teenagers and those in early twenties) in India do fantasize about aunties but it is just that, a fantasy. In India men have strong emotional attachment to their mothers and these aunty fantasies are adolescent or hormonally induced feelings towards their mother but safely displaced onto other older women, maybe some aunties vaguely remind these men of their mother when they were kids –just my theory.
I remember this happened when I was about 17.
This couple (parents’ friends) who were both in their early 40s (mind you so were my parents at that time), came over to our place with their 5 year old son.
The lady asked her son to address me as “aunty.” Now, personally I don’t give a rat’s arse as to what one chooses to address me as…mainly because it’s highly unlikely that I am ever going to run into or meet these people ever again.
But when I addressed this lady as aunty, she was quite offended…asked me to call her didi or just by her name…(mind you again, that this lady was my mother’s age!)
Now I am not one to preach to my parents who stay friends with…but how hypocrite are these people??
A similar situation happened to me when I was in India last year. Lady asking to not be called aunty but then asked her young son to call me aunty…and I was what…20!
Maybe I look too old…but I am just trying to address the hypocrisy of these women here…
Anyway, this is just a terrible rant…delete it if you wish…
Prithadi (I’ll take your word for it when you say you’re decrepit – as I am merely old, that makes you my didi):
You can’t be a Wodehouse fan. W has a great book entitled ‘Aunts aren’t Gentlemen’. Aunties aren’t Bhadralok is my as-close-to-matching riff off that – please see DDiA’s comment above.
If there are ethnic or cultural implications to the term ‘aunties’ (which you seem to indicate), they escape me.
please tell me there was a typo in your post – did you mean “30” or “40”..?
No I meant 20
oh… sorry “brown girl” – i was reading across my multiple screens and associated your post #115 with dharma queen… 21 years just didnt jive with DQ’s breadth of life experiences.
no . Pardeshi gori is right .this has become quite common in india..and more so in urban india. Most of my friends and friends of friends have one or more story abt their experience with aunties .and i think that some of them are just making story , but some of these stories are true.as i have seen them ..a lot of guys have their sexual experience ( even kissing) with landlord’s daughter or landlady .
and i also think that PG has more knowledge abt indian reality than those who lives in US/UK and just come here for vacations .She has lived in india.Though many times her conclusions are wrong or very general . but what she says is more reality based and not theoreical like many others here.
though she thinks too much about indian -male -oppressing-females and wht she think abt indian(hindu) culture is somewhat theoretical .
DQ,
Sorry: It is because I am decrepit that I missed your reference to *Aunts aren’t Gentlemen” altogether. I love Wodehouse but hard for me to rembember things these days 😉
I’ll get into the cultural implications for the term auntie later, after a nap.
I second this. I’ve lost track of the stories from guys from India as well. I know of at least 5 totally different guys, 2 from Delhi, 2 from Mumbai and 1 from Madras that have told me similar type stories. In fact one of the guys from Mumbai, a childhood friend got one of the “bhabi’s” in his society pregnant. Yup she had the kid, the husband believed it was his and the kid looks exactly like my friend. And it appears the whole “society” they live in knew about this.
To explain to those who questioned why I used various monikers, it’s because I found myself getting banned within 2 minutes of posting a comment under the name “pardesi gori”. Otherwise, I prefer “pardesi gori”, though “bibi # 1” was fun for a while too.
I recently discovered that my IP address changes frequently due to the fact that I’m using dial-up and that explains why I would be banned one day and able to post the very next, and this has been happening for the past two weeks.
Regarding Desi Dawg’s comment; “Indeed, her India is one of snake charmers and elephants.” What exactly is WRONG with snake charmers and elephants? Yes, in the area where we reside, snake charmers are not at all un-common and we get the odd elephant gracing us with her slow, elegant trod also.
Semi-nomadic “gypsies” also come through, set up their tents and attempt to earn an honest living through street performance. Is there anything wrong with these scenarios? India is not just INFOSYS and Barrista frappacinos. In fact, the majority of Indians in India are poor people who do not have 24/7 electricity. That’s why I fail to understand the angst of the writer who took offense when a non-Indian American asked her, “where you come from is there electricity?”. She must’ve been part of that rare 1% or so who DID GET 24/7 electricity, in which case maybe she was living in a posh 5 star hotel.
It seems there is a large group of Indian Americans who appear to be ashamed of the fact that most of India does not have 24/7 electricity, people still use donkeys to transport bricks for construction, snake charmers still roam village areas to entertain families in their courtyards come evening time, semi-nomadic peoples still travel by foot and set up their tents in villages in order earn a living for their children the way in which their parents earned for them – by providing entertainment to settled people, and yes, elephants are not an un-common site.
What is so hard to digest about all of this? Do not the snake-charmers and goat-herders deserve to breathe the same oxygen as the software engineers and INFOSYS CEOs? What exactly is there to be ashamed of? I fail to understand.
………”Sometimes I wonder why someone who detests India and Indian society spends so much time on this board.”……….
I’m not the one living in denial of India’s poor, India’s nomadic, India’s snake-charmers and India’s animals roaming the streets. By denying these people and animals you will not be able to wish them away. And why would you want to? This is again, something I fail to understand.
If anyone asks me, “so where you stay is there electricity?” – I don’t get upset. I explain that we have more than enough electricity to survive but we are not 24/7 consumers of it like we are when in America, and it has shown us that one does not need 24/7 electricity in order to be happy. One learns to store 3 days amounts of water in advance, in case water is turned off (frequently happens), and yes, it can be physically hard at times, but it’s do-able.
What is there to be ashamed or embarrased of? Rather, I think unneccessary consumption of the earth’s limited resources should be more a reason for shame than going without.
As regards the “WHITE OPPRESSOR”. Please! As if black Americans are any more clued into “desiness” than whites, just by virtue of having more melanin.
I took a Jamaican friend to the DEMYSTIFYING INDIA exhibit/festival and at the end of the day he STILL thought they were talking about Native American Indians! And there is a sizable community of Indians living in Jamaica. Go figure.
So the next time your black (or white) neighbor asks you if you “worship cows”, don’t get upset, just explain to them that the cow is a sociological symbol in India due to the fact that India has been primarily an agrarian-based society in which cows were central due to their contributions of grazing grass, providing milk which was then used to make protein rich paneer which sustained a population which did not derive alot of protein from animal flesh, and due to this, the cow is RESPECTED, but NOT worshipped as THE ALMIGHTY CREATOR GOD.
Abrahamic religions reserve the word “worship” for God and divine personalities, whereas in Hinduism, the word “puja” can be used for just about anybody, humans or animals, but the context of how it is used is different when applied to Divinty. There’s a difference between “go-puja” and “Ishwar-puja” and the difference is well known to a Hindu, but not known to someone who is not familiar with the different concepts of “worship” in Hinduism and is relating that word to their Abrahamic idea of the same.
Break it down and people WILL be able to understand and even relate.
I was not surprised when my African American boyfriend asked me about child marriages in India. He was correct in assuming that many, MANY people still have them – just check out any rural village for confirmation. However, I will be surprised the day when I meet someone and tell them that I reside in India and they say, “so tell me about INFOSYS.” Then I would have to tell them that INFOSYS with it’s high-tech employees represents a very small minority of people in a country where the majority lives a very rural and quite rustic lifestyle……… and there is absolutely nothing shameful about that – cows, elephants and all!
PG:
Okay, so I related to most of what you said, until I came to this.
It seems odd that you would take the trouble to explain how Infosys is not “typical” India (whatever that might be), and then justify India to them, just in reply to a question about Infosys. Do you take the same trouble to explain how, say, North Carolina is not all RTP, and that there are people who don’t have 24/7 electricity just miles from RTP, if some questioned you about Reasearch Triangle Park?
If not, why the cognitive dissonance?
Pardesi Gori aka bibi#1
I will attempt to demolish just two of the casual untruths about India. I have no desire or the time to go line by line through your rant and disprove every single point you make.
That’s why I fail to understand the angst of the writer who took offense when a non-Indian American asked her, “where you come from is there electricity?”. She must’ve been part of that rare 1% or so who DID GET 24/7 electricity, in which case maybe she was living in a posh 5 star hotel.
56% of Indians have access to regular electricity. (Source:Indian Power Minsiter, FDI roadshow in NY city, 25/4/2006)
people still use donkeys to transport bricks for construction, snake charmers still roam village areas to entertain families in their courtyards come evening time
India is the #2 market in the world for mobile telephony. 5 million connections are added every month
India has 80 million TV sets. That means 400 million people (average of 5 people per family) have access to public TV
800 movies in Hindi are made each year in Mumbai
I could go on but I rest my case. Like I have said before, you need to stop posting untruths on this board or you will get challenged every time.
DesiDawg, I’ve lived in India since the early 1990s, so I am well aware of all of this. 56% of all Indians have access to “regular electricity”? Depends on what is meant by “regular”. I reside in a small town that up until recently was a village and is very fast becoming what some might refer to as a “suburb” type of environment, but that is stretching the term “suburb” to it’s very out limits. Yeah, we have regular electricity. It is regularly going off and on. And our area is known for having the most electricity within, like say 30 kilometers all around us.
Dehli has more electricity, especially if you stay in places like New Friends Colony, Rajouri Gardens, etc. But even then, it is not 24/7. So what? Nothing to be ashamed of.
The “labour class”, as it is called in India – the construction workers who transport bricks via donkeys and the domestic workers, etc, are SOMETIMES also seen to be carrying cell phones, so no contradiction there. But I’ve seen that, again, in the metros and surrounding areas.
If you go into the interior villages, which comprise MOST of India (India is not defined by it’s few metros), well, there is less cell phone use, but nowadays it would be more common to see cell phones than home phones (land lines). Still, alot of people take a half kilometer or so walk to the nearest PCO/ISD/STD booth (STD in this context does not stand for Sexually Transmitted Disease).
India is both rural and “high-fi” – often simultaneously within the same village/household/individual.
PG:
speechless
PG:
LOL. I have this vision of an Indian riding a bullock-cart while singing in perfect stereo – or do they have surround sound as well as hi-fi?
Venu, “hi-fi” is what UPites term “technology”. Took me some getting used to as well.
I agree with venu #125 on all counts regarding PG’s #124. Desidawg, what’s your point regarding the TV’s? Why can’t I have access to a TV and also be a using bullock carts/donkeys? I want to mention also that rolling blackouts are considered regular electricity and not necessarily a 24/7 supply. Actually rolling blackouts are better than other forms of “regular” since you’d at least know when it’s going to be.
PG:
Are you by any chance White Trash from this post as the tone is awfully similar.
PG: A word of advice from an Uncle-ji. Why do you have to announce to the world, through your name and your writing, that you are a white woman living in India? Is that persona at all essential to your outpourings on SM? I think you are regarded by some as a cultural infiltrator, even when what you say is often true and always untainted by value judgment. You are also stereotyped, unfairly of course, as a hippie slumming in India with no moral right to pontificate about our culture, even though your 15-year tenure on the streets of India have earned you the right. Heck, in less than fifteen years, we first-generation Indians become experts on American life, politics, economy and culture.
I concur with most of your observations because I have lived the life and still do when I am visiting India. And believe me, I am not ashamed of anything Indian. Since technology leapfrogs over infrastructure, you do see in the “gulleys” of Banaras a street vendor with a basket of vegetables on his head and a cell phone stuck in his ear. Doesn’t make India any worse. Heck, I would take 8.9% annual GDP growth and the strong fundamentals fueling the Indian economy over our mature US economy anyday. Besides, a nation’s or a culture’s worth need not be measured by its economy.
I got a kick out of that term, hi-fi. I understood what it meant. By the way, which UP city? Not Banaras, is it?
I agree with venu #125 on all counts regarding PG’s #124. Desidawg, what’s your point regarding the TV’s? Why can’t I have access to a TV and also be a using bullock carts/donkeys?
Kurma, I was actually responding to PG’s assertion about people using snake charmers for entertainment…
I’ve lived in India since the early 1990s, so I am well aware of all of this. 56% of all Indians have access to “regular electricity”? Depends on what is meant by “regular”. I reside in a small town that up until recently was a village and is very fast becoming what some might refer to as a “suburb” type of environment, but that is stretching the term “suburb” to it’s very out limits. Yeah, we have regular electricity. It is regularly going off and on. And our area is known for having the most electricity within, like say 30 kilometers all around us.
Pardesi Gori, First of all accept my sincere apologies. I only take issue with your “selective reporting bias” and not with you.
However, I bet if someone would only look at the quality of life in rural Arkansas and Alabama, that would make the US seem very backward indeed. Maybe you need to explore the Indian cities more?
DD (DesiDawg) –
I’ll pose a similar question as Kurma, why can’t someone watch TV AND watch a snake charming performance? They can, and they do. Alot of people.
First of all, I’m not the one assuming that snake charmers, brick-carrying donkeys and limited electricity are backwards. YOU are assuming that because that is what you think and that is what you are ashamed of.
I’m not. It’s all part of normal life in India.
Your suggestion that I spend more time in the cities – for what exactly? Slightly higher access to electricity? Multi-plex theatres with AC? What benefit would I get from spending more time in metros? What’s wrong with the small towns and villages?
That being said, I do spend quite a lot of time in Delhi. Again, the electricity is not 24/7, donkeys still carry bricks there, cows still roam the streets, and yes, there is an occaisonal “gypsy” carrying a wicker basket — guess what’s in the basket? A cobra.
Pardesi Gori – I love your comments. As someone who grew up in India, I think you “GET” it better than most commenters here. You Represent!
I hereby with the powers bestowed upon me as the self appointed president of the Akhal Bharathiya Sanskriti Aur Sampradhay Samiti designate you as official spokesperson of Desilog in Desiland Janata 😉
Honour humbly accepted, dhanyavad.
why can’t someone watch TV AND watch a snake charming performance? They can, and they do. Alot of people. Do you know that circus troupes have died out in India due to lack of an audience response? Only in your “village”, a lot of people watch a snake charming performance.
First of all, I’m not the one assuming that snake charmers, brick-carrying donkeys and limited electricity are backwards. YOU are assuming that because that is what you think and that is what you are ashamed of.
Really! So using animals for labor instead of loaders and trucks is progress? I guess the whole industrial revolution wasn’t really a step forward?
You are right- I am not proud of the backwardness, the poverty and hunger that exists in rural India.
thenks very interisting