There are times when I feel desperately ashamed of my community/communities (Desi/Punjabi/Sikh). I realize this is just one side of the story we’re hearing, and that we shouldn’t jump to conclusions, but it is all too believable and makes my blood run cold.
This is the story of 27 year old Navjeet Siddhu from Southall, who committed suicide by jumping in front of a 100mph Heathrow Express train. Not only did she jump, but she jumped carrying her two children.
She suffered from depression, which began when she gave birth to a daughter rather than a son. Her condition became worse after her husband, Manjit, who left her to return to his native India, said that he would come back home only if he did not have to do any household chores. [Link]
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p>Navjeet Siddhu and her daughter Simran died instantly. Her son, Aman Raj, died in the hospital 2 hours later. To add to the carnage, Navjeet’s mother, 56 year old Satwant Kaur Sodhi, committed suicide at the same spot six months later.
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p>Navjeet Siddhu died back in August of 2005, but the inquest into the incident is just now being held, hence the news attention. The husband comes off as hideously callous in news stories:
The court was told how Mr Sidhu, who arrived six minutes after the incident at Southall station, walked past the bodies of his wife and five-year-old daughter, Simran, to pick up the body of his 23-month-old son, Aman Raj, and take him to hospital. [Link]
It’s possible that his actions had a rational explanation – that Aman Raj was the only one who looked like he would survive – it’s hard to tell without having his side of the story. We really shouldn’t prejudge her husband based on such flimsy evidence. However, even if this account is a media fiction, this sort of thing is far too common and that makes it easier to believe that it might have happened.
grrrl, the reason you get banned is probably the same reason people look at skinny 45 year old dudes in wife beaters who hang out at the roller rink weirdly 🙂
Oh yeah, I forget to add, “….and then wake up the next morning and do the dishes from the night before, and then get back and bed and take it from the top-down again”, to my list in comment #242 above.
There HMF, is that specific enough for you?
And I dare be so bold as to say this is what EVERY (straight) woman would LOVE TO GET from her man – no matter her age, no matter her country of residence.
Am I right ladies?
There HMF, now you got something to work off of.
And I didn’t even charge you a dime for such advise.
This is what people pay therapists for.
Mystic,
You may be right.
However I don’t think many conservative middle-American homes, for instance, are much more comfortable with human sexuality than many middle-class Hindu homes. And there are plenty of nutcase Christian fundies who think celibacy is a morally pure state. So to tag Hinduism alone with this tendency is, in my view, irresponsible.
And there are plenty of nutcase Christian fundies who think celibacy is a morally pure state.
just to be precise, celibacy as a sanctified state tends to be more prevelant in catholicism (and other older christian traditions). martin luther took a wife after all 🙂 protestantism is more likely islam, though there is variation within protestantism on this issue.
Mystic, YOU ROCK.
After running into posts about alpha males scoring p**sy and ass, and simultaneously reading posts by females mooning about how they neeeeeeeed to find the right man, you are a f?&^%ing breath of FRESH AIR.
Though, a quibble – between the feeding and the licking, a nice very long, expert massage with aromatic oil…
brown & round.
Although cultural change is inevitable and will follow its own course, based on thousands of different variables that people often have no active control over…I’m just happy that Natural Mystic aka Pardesi Gori will have no real influence over that process…
Pardesi Gori, are you suggesting that men should be dominated over by women?
Amitabh,
I don’t think she was suggesting that. This little discussion arose in the context of another discussion on ‘what men want’ vs. ‘what women want’. What Mystic said is not so different from HMF’s ‘Feed me, fuck me, shut the fuck up’ summary of what men want.
I don’t think either sex want JUST this, or even MAINLY this, (thank God) – or obviously there’d be no successful marriages out there. The point was, I believe, that women’s desires can be as simple and primal as men’s.
AMfJ – there is a secular rationale for such restrictions, although I am not sure how I feel about it, namely the presence of large numbers of children. How do you feel about bars next to primary schools? Or playgrounds? Swimming pools?
Funny you brought this up because I was thinking about the same issues when I posted my opposition to zoning restrictions around religious places.
To answer your question, I am okay with bars next to primary schools and playgrounds. There are already laws against under age drinking so what exactly are they preventing. I only favor making exceptions in law for children in certain situations. For example, in child porn, where children dont have the mental capacity to consent to acting in such movies. I am stridently anti-zoning in most cases. IMO zoning restrictions have been unfairly used to enforce morality of a religious kind. Of course I save my ire for religious minded restrictions on pornography, sex shops etc. but this whole saving children thing has also gone too far IMO. At a certain level, such restrictions have widespread support and I am not happy with this tyranny of the majority.
I am sorry for jumping in, just couldn’t resist.
In MY opinion, I would rather prevent the children from entering Gurudwaras, Churches, Mosques, Temples, etc, etc. These places are much more harmful to their development – not to mention to the development of mankind.
Also, notice how the believers never stop harping about the omnipresence of god, so, wouldn’t that put god, esp, lord krishna, inside the bars, whorehouses, lingerie shops, etc, etc…?
Go to hell. If anything, you owe me an apology, for continuously making wild accusations and insinuations about me despite being categorically proven wrong over and over again. I also stand by every word I have ever said about you — indeed, you repeatedly prove my point by your own vindictive actions, and continue to do so. You are very, very predictable and require very little prompting from me indeed in order to hang yourself with your own rope. DonÂ’t even attempt to suggest any moral equivalence between your own behaviour and my response to it.
And shame on you for attempting to hijack a discussion such as this which involves such severe problems affecting millions of South Asian women worldwide.
However, apologise to me, retract your allegations and admit that you have been completely wrong from start to finish — and you should very, very strongly consider ANNA’s opinion of me, because she knows me better than anyone else on this website — and I will let the matter drop.
No, the reality is that you barely even register on my radar. If you think you have any emotional impact on me at all, you severely overestimate your own importance. The only person who regularly “foams at the mouth” on discussions on SM is you — which is something many people here have repeatedly call you out for. The very notion that you think you inspire any significant anger in me whatsoever betrays your own ignorance of what the Khalsa ethos really involves. Why you have this obsession with continuously trying to get my attention is beyond me. Absolutely everyone here is bored sick of it.
Nonsense. This website is filled with strong, intelligent women like ANNA, Taz, MD, Sonia Kaur, DesiDancer, JOAT and many other female participants who are immensely respected by myself and most other long-term commenters, and who play a tremendous part in making a positive contribution to the discussions here.
However, if a person is clearly talking bullshit, they are torn apart irrespective of their gender. You don’t appear to understand that.
Siddhartha recently made a very good point about how some commenters underestimate who the Mutineers actually are in their real lives; exactly the same principle applies to many of the long-term commenters on this blog, and it would be worthwhile for you to bear this in mind.
The reality is that you appear to have a problem with men questioning or contradicting you (particularly if they are from a certain regional, ethnic and phenotypic background), and immediately make all kinds of negative assumptions about their own personalities or motivations for doing so. If you are factually or ideologically wrong about anything whatsoever, then I will contradict you about it and so will everyone else here. Do not assume that your own gender has anything to do with it. In fact, if you were a man I would have been far more blunt and abrasive towards you, considering your tiresome, immature and inflammatory attempts at provocation, combined with the usual rhetoric and hyperbole; I do not believe in swearing at women or being overbearing towards them, which is the reason for my restrained behaviour towards you so far.
If you have experienced misogyny and racism from South Asian men, particularly from a certain background, then I can appreciate that and you have my sympathy. It happens all the time and I hate it myself, because I’ve seen the havoc it wreaks on many South Asian women’s lives. However, it is unwise for you to make assumptions about the personalities of people here on SM based on scraps of out-of-context information, and even more misguided to ascribe imaginary character traits to them based on your negative experiences with other people who may be from the same background.
Your behaviour towards JOAT has also been atrocious — and, as I recall, you even managed to get yet-another thread shut down during a previous altercation with her — so you owe her a long-overdue apology too.
Again: Apologise to both of us, retract your allegations, promise that you will be polite and civilised towards everyone here in future including me, and I will let the matter drop.
It’s up to you.
“If HMF’s comment above does not convince you, I don’t know what will.
My own boyfriend is so considerate and loving and when I asked him how he got to be that way he said, “I was raised by women who taught me the worth of women”.”
Really? Perhaps you can explain things like this. Being nice and considerate in the attraction phase is about as useful as having 3 nipples. and a golden gun.
“And as women feel their importance growing in the eyes of men, that ambiguity that HMF refers to above will vanish and they will have no fear of SPECIFICALLY DETAILING what they want from a relationship”
There’s a huge difference between theory and practice my friend. The real problem is the specific details are hugely time varying, of course life is a constant change, but delta_t should be held to a reasonable duration.
“Oh yeah, I forget to add, “….and then wake up the next morning and do the dishes from the night before, and then get back and bed and take it from the top-down again”, to my list in comment #242 above.”
And mystic, do you realize why your posts are so funny? It’s because if it were really that easy, guys would do it. I think (I hope) both of us were being a little tongue in cheek, hell I quoted Chris Rock, not Laura Schlessinger. But I must respond to this “men need to be raised by their mothers” concept. Namely, this:
“it is up to her to teach him how to treat his future woman the way she wanted to be treated throughout her marriage.”
Such instruction is utterly useless unless the woman feels attracted in the first place. And treating a woman the way a married woman of 10 years wants to be treated, is no way to generate attraction. Now, your logical mind might disagree with that, but then please indulge me and explain the “bad boy” phenomenon.
What you’re saying is, teach the mountain climber all the skills necessary to reach Everest’s summit, without teaching them how to do a simple class 3 wall. See my point? It’s easy to dismiss me as a misogynist I know… but if you dig a little deeper and actually answer some of the questions I’m putting out, a new level of understanding could be reached. And we’re all about digging deeper, right?
OK HMF, I’ll let you have it straight, since that is what you asked for.
In the context of “traditional” Indian male-female relationships, where the marriage of a young woman and man is arranged, I think it is very feasible that the mother of the son relay to her son the basic needs and desires of women in general, thus instructing him on how to treat his future wife, of which he may have had little contact with.
Advice like: massage her feet nightly and give her a whole body massage once a week to show you care, if she prefers coffee to tea make sure that you bring her a cup of hot coffee in the morning even if you are a tea drinker, ask her what she wants to do and where she wants to go and take her out at least once a week to her favorite spot, do not expect her to clean up after you but make it a point to clean up after her, especially in the beginning of the marriage, etc.
Often times young Indian men who have not had any “dating” experience due to the fact that it is not really a cultural norm in their village or town, would not even think of the above little things that can make such a big impression on the heart and mind of a newly married Indian bride, in the traditional context. Also, usually in such traditional contexts its the bride who is expected to serve tea in the morning to the husband and clean up after him, etc, so imagine the pleasant surprise when the tables are turned. What woman would’nt be totally impressed? What a great start to a life-long relationship.
In the context of a dating culture, like the USA, this whole thing about women desiring “bad boys” – couldn’t that just be an urban myth?
Yes, in the beginning a little chase is exciting to a woman (and a man as well). But you don’t want him to be playing hard to get forever. Once a woman gets the man she wants as her exclusive own, then it’s up to the man to take it to the next level by wowing her with lovin like she never had before.
And you’re right, if a man truly desires a woman, he is willing to do almost anything to satisfy her desires.
Is it really all that hard to figure out what your woman requires if you are in a relationship with her? Aren’t most women in modern day times and cultures vocal about it?
What’s the big secret here? – I don’t get it.
If you are really clueless, surprise her with a spontaneous aromatic oil massage then rub her down in a hot bath while talking about “us”.
The only woman who would prefer abuse to pampered lovin is a woman with self-esteem issues. Do you want to be with a woman with self-esteem issues? Probably not. On the other hand, some genuine pampering could probably help her raise her self-esteem.
How old are you HMF? Maybe you should consider dating women 5-15 years older than yourself if all you are meeting are young women who want to be mistreated by bad boys. Women in their 30s and 40s usually have evolved beyond that.
Ok, I am instituting a new rule where Jai and DQ cannot address each other in the comments section. You have to sit on separate sides of the car. If I have to pull the car over in order to come back there to separate you two then we are just going to turn the car around and go home. I will not be happy if we have to go home.
Sorry I’m having such a huge issue with this line of thinking. My mother who knows me better than anyone else doesn’t know what I want from a man so I would NOT expect my MIL to teach my husband about this. He’s a grown adult, if he knows concepts like patience, respect and kindness he’ll be fine. The rest he has to learn from his wife. It’s silly to think a Indian mom could teach her son how to behave with a woman who he is sharing a bed with!
OK I’m sorry but I had to laugh at this. This is so highly unrealistic of any human being. People have busy lives and other responsibilities. Couples need intimacy, connection and some quality time with each other above and beyond the superficial shit magazines and books have trained us to believe we need. Asking a man to do things while he should expect nothing in return is bullshit. Two people in the marriage together, two people do things for each other, it’s not always 50/50 but over time it balances out. This notion of give her a full body massage and don’t expect one in return and pick up after her but don’t expect her to pick up after you is blowing my mind. We are talking about adults here. Pick up after yourself and if your spouse fails once in a while do it and quit bitching about it.
And you want the mom of an inexperienced man to teach him this? Are you serious? A mom who’s probably been picking after all the grownups in the house is going to teach her son to pick up after his wife. Yeah right.
No it’s not an urban myth because I’ve lost track of how many ‘bad’ men I’ve attracted and how many ‘bad’ men my girlfriends have wasted time on. They sure are exciting. As you grow up you learn to find a man who has balanced the ‘good boy’ and ‘bad boy’ side of him.
All this talk of massages and oils and lovin all night and doing the dishes for you freaks me out. This is the nonsense media and women’s lib has been feeding us. The average woman doesn’t want a porn star who behaves like he’s Mr Sensitive. She just wants a normal guy who treats her with respect and consideration, listens to her, loves her for who she is is open to understanding her needs which most of the time aren’t superficial or physical. The problem with women today is the level of expecations are so ridiculous without examining the validity of those expectations. And 90% of the time we want this and we want that and well all these things require investment of your own hard work. No pain no gain. Men have needs too just as well. It isn’t all about us.
What is your idea of abuse? And you know women that would prefer to be abused rather than loved? Or you just threw that in for good measure?
Pardesi Gori, your advice makes me wanna puke!
Deeper Digger being the latest incarnation of Pardesi Gori of course. Why don’t you stick to reforming your own culture? There’s plenty of work to be done!
“In the context of a dating culture, like the USA, this whole thing about women desiring “bad boys” – couldn’t that just be an urban myth?”
Not from my experience. But the general point is, women deal in vagueness and gray areas nearly their entire existence. Just look at the term “chemistry” – could anything make less sense? I have yet to find someone to “spell it out.” And by some magic, [white or other], this vagueness dissappears after the wedding ring?
“Women in their 30s and 40s usually have evolved beyond that.”
You have yet to explain the overwhelming need to evolve in the first place. If it’s so logical and simple, why the riff raff? Why the pejorative use of the term “nice guy”? Nice guy might as well be a four-letter word.
“Advice like: massage her feet nightly and give her a whole body massage once a week to show you care, if she prefers coffee to tea make sure that you bring her a cup of hot coffee in the morning even if you are a tea drinker, ask her what she wants to do and where she wants to go and take her out at least once a week to her favorite spot, do not expect her to clean up after you but make it a point to clean up after her, especially in the beginning of the marriage, etc.”
These types of things are common sense. The golden rule. Do unto others. But again. all useless in the context of attraction. Now, coming full circle, (which is actually relevant to the initial post):
“In the context of “traditional” Indian male-female relationships, where the marriage of a young woman and man is arranged, I think it is very feasible that the mother of the son relay to her son the basic needs and desires of women in general, thus instructing him on how to treat his future wife, of which he may have had little contact with.”
I think it’s feasible too, that is, if the married woman is strong/wise/empowered enough to denounce the system that denigrated her in the first place. But for the most part they aren’t, it’s like the matrix, a mind cannot be freed after existing in the matrix for that long. It’s somewhat similar to prison institutionalization. you hate it when you get there, then you grow to depend on it. So a simple, “guys need to be taught by their moms” in the Indian context, is easier said than done.
deeper digger is PG? My PG detection skills are not honed to say the least. I guess she can get off on the criticisms I have of the Indian marital system.
JOAT –
The coffee in bed and foot massage training was all in the traditional Indian context of an arranged marriage where neither party had any, or very little, previous experience with members of the opposite gender in an intimate relationship.
It may sound funny to us because these are probably things that are par for the course in our dating relationships. None of the men I’ve dated had to be told to get me a cup of coffee or whatever in the morning or to massage my feet, it was all part of their natural movements. But in the traditional Indian context they generally are not, though exceptions are there. So to understand how the above would totally knock a young Indian bahu off her feet, then some experience of the traditional Indian marriage as it takes place in thousands of villages and towns across India is required. The women ARE trained since girlhood to serve their husbands and cater to their needs. I’m only suggesting a turn of the tables to bring balance to the situation and make Indian bahus happy and surprised.
None of my boyfriends needed that training coz their culture and families were different.
Yes, massage is not everything, but for women who NEVER ONCE got a hot oil massage or breakfast served to them in bed, it means alot.
You and I may getting these things, and thus we are happy to reciprocate them. My comments above were meant for wives who never once got this type of thing but are used to giving it. Those women have been giving and giving and giving for centuries, so now, if they receive and don’t reciprocate every once in a while – where is the harm?
You and I with our freedoms to date and choose our mates, work hard and play harder, well, we may be in a position to laugh at how ridiculous it may be that a husband needs to be TRAINED to pamper us, but there are men out there like that. Thank God I’ve never been with one! But I’m empathizing with those who have been and I have lived with those women and they have poured out their hearts to me. And they do want this. And they are the ones that are giving more than receiving and are conditioned to just keep on keepin’ on in that same cycle.
It needs to be reversed in order to find a balance.
As far as such men learning from their wives – I agree, IF the wives are willing to be teachers. But the women I am referring to are heavily conditioned to not assert themselves to their husbands on many issues. I’m reminded of your friends MIL who yelled at her son why he did not gift her diamonds – notice she yelled at her son and not her husband, who is the man who SHOULD be giving her diamonds, not her son.
I still say the change of boys is in the hands of their mothers. And the change of those mothers is in the hands of their husbands who obviously are not providing their wives with the diamonds or attention or whatever it is that drives a woman to be jealous of her sons wife!
Regarding abuse – I was referring to the “bad boys”. What makes them bad? They behave in ways that are not beneficial for the women involved with them – that’s abusive, if not physically, then mentally.
Perhaps teenage girls or young women in their twenties like drama and therefore they are drawn to these men. Usually by the time we reach our thirties we have matured enough to want a man who knows our value and we prefer sincerity over drama.
HMF –
“I think it’s feasible too, that is, if the married woman is strong/wise/empowered enough to denounce the system that denigrated her in the first place. But for the most part they aren’t, it’s like the matrix, a mind cannot be freed after existing in the matrix for that long. It’s somewhat similar to prison institutionalization. you hate it when you get there, then you grow to depend on it. So a simple, “guys need to be taught by their moms” in the Indian context, is easier said than done.”
I am TOTALLY in agreement with you on this. Change then is taught to them from an outside party. Just like the women’s movement or feminist movement here in USA. Outside parties informed the insiders and attitudes changed over time.
Amitabh –
I’m an equal oppurtunity reformer. I do try to reform women and men in my own culture who need it when I encounter similar attitudes amongst people within my sphere of influence. Change comes from within though, so I can only voice alternative ways of dealing with things and it is up to the individuals to act if and as they wish.
I’d like to know what your idea of an ideal marriage is.
HMF –
“Advice like: massage her feet nightly and give her a whole body massage once a week to show you care, if she prefers coffee to tea make sure that you bring her a cup of hot coffee in the morning even if you are a tea drinker, ask her what she wants to do and where she wants to go and take her out at least once a week to her favorite spot, do not expect her to clean up after you but make it a point to clean up after her, especially in the beginning of the marriage, etc.”………..
These types of things are common sense. The golden rule. Do unto others. ………
………………………………….
Ah! There you have it! They are common sense to YOU and ME, my dear, because of our environments/cultures/conditionings. But there are literally thousands upon thousands of men for whom these things are NOT common sense to at all!!!
It is to the wives of such men I am speaking in the above. And to the mothers, to ingrain it into their sons brains until it does indeed become common sense.
Regarding initial attraction which you seem to have a problem with, someone is either attracted to you or they’re not, I guess.
You want advice on how to make urself more initially attracted to women? Meet more women. The percentage of those attracted to you will rise.
Can’t say I didn’t walk into that one.
Ha! Ha! Ha! And right into my trap, HMF.
OK how old are you? I love younger men.
(insert evil laugh here…..)
The coffee in bed and foot massage training was all in the traditional Indian context of an arranged marriage where neither party had any, or very little, previous experience with members of the opposite gender in an intimate relationship.
It may sound funny to us because these are probably things that are par for the course in our dating relationships.None of the men I’ve dated had to be told to get me a cup of coffee or whatever in the morning or to massage my feet, it was all part of their natural movements.
LMAO!
Pardesi Gori:
I agree that marriage should be a 50-50 union of equals. And of course one should please their wife in bed. It’s the slave-ish fawning over one’s wife that you promote that I can’t stomach…and you’ve neglected to outline what the wife should be doing for her husband.
Amitabh, I made it clear in above posts that I was referring to traditional arranged marriages as existing in current villages and small towns across India wherein females are specifically trained through girlhood to serve and tend to their husbands, while expecting close to nothing in return. The scales of service are severly tipped towards the males in the majority of those relationships. Therefore, to turn the tide, for a while, the scales should be tipped the other way. After sometime, balance will ensue.
Therefore there is no need to specify what they wives should be doing to “reciprocate”. That has been drilled into their heads since childhood, except it’s not taught as reciprocation but as “stri dharma” (women’s duty) and pati-seva (service to the husband) and pati-vrat (dedication to the husband). There is not a corresponding concept as patni-seva (service to the wife), and I’ve never EVER heard the term patni-vrat in reference to a man.
This is not to say that there are no service oriented and dedicated husbands in the flatlands of Rajasthan. Surely there are. But the overall ethos is as I explained above.
This all changes in context to women like me who have not grown up in such an environment and who have not been trained to be subservient to their husband, and who have had intimate relationships with men who do not expect service as a natural course of things. People like me, HMF, and you perhaps, are already starting off with a balanced gender scale, therefore there will be automatic give and take from both sides, and reciprocation. In such a case, 50/50 like you stated above is the norm.
Can you imagine the pshrynkage bill that would come this?
Wow, who needs Marriage 101 – I should have you write a column on my site. Now if only you could provide a link to a database of these imaginary men =)
You people flatter me – I’m describing my boyfriend above, really, you make it sound like I’m the luckiest woman in the world. Guess I should keep him.
AND – he credits his success with women to his mothers (yes he essentially had two) and sisters who basically taught him how to love and respect women propa.
Exactly the demographic LEAST LIKELY to care what you have to say. Good luck getting them to massage their wives’ feet daily…you’d never even get me to do that. And good luck getting women in that mileau to train their sons to become footservants of their future wives…HA!
I should have spelled it ‘milieu’.
But I’m not the one least likely to live amongst them.
And, I doubt the ones I influenced are lucky enough to get a nightly foot massage (by the sounds of it here, seems like I’m the only one getting that, (again big-ups to SO’s mas and sistas), however, I have heard that a few of them ARE now getting a massage before the weekly “bibi idar oau, sari uthou, ek-do-teen-bas-saujau session”, if you’re feelin’ me….
“Exactly the demographic LEAST LIKELY to care what you have to say. Good luck getting them to massage their wives’ feet daily…you’d never even get me to do that. And good luck getting women in that mileau to train their sons to become footservants of their future wives…HA!”
Good point! Which means the only solution is to wipe “traditional arranged marriage” from the face of the earth. And I say this knowing full well it gives more ammo to PG and her camp. But I say it anyway.
You may not believe me but I was about to say exactly that to Bidismoker after reading his comment.
HMF –
Male-centered and dominated relationships are not exclusive to the arranged marriage system, though the argument could be made that they don’t help much.
The dynamics can be similar in “prem ki shaadis” or love marriages as well, but I get your point.
……….how old are you again?
(wink, wink,)
Amitabh,
I may be wrong — and I sincerely hope I am — but I’m not sure if Deeper Digger and Bibi #1 are “Pardesi Gori”. Check the writing style.
People are talking about the pub opposite the gurdwara in Southall. If I’m not mistaken, that pub has been there for over thirty years, and was there before the gurdwara was built opposite it. I used to go shopping every other month with my mother there when we lived in Kingston, Surrey as a kid, and attended mandir in Southall too, and the big massive gurudwara there was only built about five years ago. So it’s more or less a coincidence that the pub is situated there. Before it was built there was a factory on the site of the present gurdwara I think. I presume it became known as glassy junction because it’s near the railway station and workers from the factory would go there for drinks after work. I must have visited three of four gurudwaras in the country attending weddings of friends etc, and have never seen pubs situated next to them.
Jai now now man you seem to be the only one unaware of this…
Pardesi Gori aka Mystic Devi aka Natural Mystic aka Deeper Digger aka Bibi # 1 why can’t you bloody stick to one handle? It’s so hard to respect a persona when they keep switching themselves constantly. Please…
http://www.ealing-web.com/pubs/glassyjn.jpg
Ennis – what is the latest news regarding the inquest into Navjeet Siddhu’s case?
Any follow-ups to this?
Actually, I think the site of the present gurdwara used to be an old telephone exchange, not a factory. These are all things I am recollecting from memory of having read somewhere and my old memories of Southall in the 1980s 1990’s. And the Glassy Junction pub is not directly opposite it, but at the top of the road, halfway down from there.
Jai, Southall di yaad aa gayi, yaara… (just reminiscing about Southall)…what a place!
Actually Red Snapper, the huge gurudwara you linked to is on Havelock Road, which is a good 10 minute walk from Glassy Junction… and prior to the huge gurudwara, there was another gurudwara right on that site…prior to THAT it may have been a factory I’m not sure…but there is another gurudwara very near Glassy Junction, but I can’t recall if it is directly across or not…
You may be right Amitabh. I havent been to Southall in years.
Where else can you find a McDonald’s with all Indian employees serving tikka burgers while playing Indian music? Aside from India, of course.
What for? I don’t do foot massages, although let it be known, not withstanding, that I am the foot f*ckin masta.