As luck would have it, while at the frigid ND bunker and prancing around in nothing but her tropical New Orleanian wear, your intrepid guest blogger caught a cold and was forcibly isolated from the other monkeys and community computer for a week. Eeek achoo eeek! Hey, the New Orleanian cold front of 75 degrees and 80% humidity just hit yesterday, and this macaca yearns for a mint julep on her sunny porch.
While mired in the hurricane-force sneezes and sea of wadded-up tissue paper, cable TV overcame me and I fell prey to such eye-searers as As The World Turns, Dr. Phil and America’s Next Top Model. Dear Supreme Geek Council, please do not oust me from your favor for this transgression. Your humble servant was merely … ummmm … getting to know the enemy … yeah, that’s it.
Anchal Joseph of Homestead, FL wishes to go beyond model immigrant; she wants to be a supermodel. This 19-year-old sports flawless dark skin, ass-length hair, blue-tinted contacts and a desire to show her people that dark women can walk that catwalk, too. With tears threatening to evict her fake baby blues, Ms. Anchal informed Tyra Banks, Jay Manuel (a planet in the neighboring galaxy is missing its weirdo) and J. Alexander (and I do not quote), “Where I come from, light skin and light eyes are preferable to dark skin and eyes. I want to show them that I am just as beautiful.” Fair enough. So, why the blue contacts? If you want to win on your looks, where is the need for the prop? Then again, Anchal is the only one out of 36 who doesn’t transform into a vavoom covergirl when adorned with that other crutch – lots of makeup. She looks pretty much her beautiful same. (Aside: Check out this definition for anchal)
Conversely, the only personal features I find appealing are my brown skin and black eyes. My hips could use several circumlocutions of the block and 5’4″ isn’t anything to write Elle about. This isn’t to say that my extended family has risen above the inanity of Anchal’s experiences; in fact, I’ve been on the receiving end of such remarks for 12 more years than her. My dark skin has never bothered me, even when met with reproachful stares from the kuppai that populates my end of the South. To each her own pathology or just another plea for Reality-TVTM attention?
Speaking of this past week’s TV, was it the NyQuil crooning or did a segment of Chaiyya Chaiyya open a scene of the Smith premiere?
Anand, Very interesting and profound statement indeed. Especially the part where you criticize an aspiring participant for her “chapati like face”. Maybe you would be so kind so as to put a picture of yourself on this blog. I would be surprised if you receive any charitable comments on your face and physique.
IMHO, she’s totally da bomb. Maybe she should wear a different top?
DesiDawg so according to you the only people who can criticize beautiful people are those that are prettier or more perfect? And if someone is attractive to one they have to be attractive to another? Am I reading you right or you wouldn’t be asking Anand to post his picture?
I think out of the entire models on this season of America’s Next Top Model, Anchal is the only one who has a chance. Her bone structure is amazing. But her body may be too curvacious for today’s standards of modeling. Which of course is unfortunate and dumb.
As to the beauty standards in India, there is a double standard there. Commercial models are fair-skinned and dainty. Runway models are more dusky and curvacious today. Of course, Ms. Aish Rai didn’t help the situation when she advertises for lightening skin products for Loreal in India. Yet on Oprah she argues the lightening skin is wrong. Which is it, Miss Rai???
Hey really? Id like to know more. Does anyone know how I can find Indian ads on the web?? Irrespective of what she stated on Oprah if she’s peddling “whitening” stuff in India I’d be seriously disgusted. She of all people who doesn’t need any more money should seriously consider some social responsibility towards not perpetuating the white craze in India.
JOAT, I am all for criticism. However, where does one draw the line between uncalled for mean behavior and fair critique? I think saying that someone’s face is round like a chapati does cross the line.
Full Disclosure: I am not Anchal’s mom 🙂
Secondly, I agree with you that all this discussion about dark and light is BS. That’s why I say it’s based on fitness, outdoorsy behavior, lighteneing creams etc etc. Maybe you did not read my initial post.
I am not a male model, but just as I can criticize a pro athlete’s performance despite being over six feet two inches tall and weighing 160 lbs myself, I can be a man with a large nose and glasses and criticize an aspirant to be a supermodel.
Personally I am getting really annoyed by people getting their panties in a bunch when other exhibit a strong preference for fair skin or any physical attribute. Listen up people, you are not born with a right to be considered beautiful. There is no law that requires equal appreciation of fair skin , dark skin, fat face, skinny legs or whatever. I don’t think there is any conspiracy against dark skinned people either; if dark skinned people were indeed as desirable as fair skinned folks then sexual attraction would overpower any feeble attempt to keep the dark folks down. The preference exists because it is rooted in biology, just as there is a biological preference for tall muscular men over short and fat or short and skinny men. Deal with it and move on with life. I think if all ethnic groups had the exact same proportion of skin colors and body types, there would not be all this wailing and gnashing. Its because the proportional distribution of phenotypes varies across the world that this issue takes on such emotional and political overtones. Let it go people, accept who you are, accept other people’s estimation of your looks and just live your life !
She da bomb diggity fo sho.
Ooooh I am so impressed now. The esteemed professor Anand has used the term phenotype in his posting. Just throw in a couple of irrelevant high school biology terms in the mix and you are now suddenly the world’s expert on genetics and indeed sexual psychology.
And oh, I so love the way the post ends with an exclamation mark. Like it’s the end of a profound and far reaching argument.
One of Aish’s “whitening” ads….may take a while to find the Loreal one. The one below is her latest Lux soap ad. (click on the picture to read the text!)
http://www.ashforever.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=606&pos=1
Desidawg:
I sense some resentment in your post; are you one of those ABDs who fell through the model minority cracks and failed high school biology or something ? Its well known around the world how abysmal the American public school system is, but Indians have typically not been affected by it. Maybe your deep suspicion of english grammar and biological terms is just a reflection of your more typical american high school performance.
Amitabh,
I believe that your friend is referring to the recent discussions about Padma Lakshmi, Salman Rushdie’s partner.
Anand – Yeah right, there’s a biological preference for light skin. Hence the physical repulsion of white masters for their black slaves, the dislike of black men by white women everywhere, the freedom of Indian maids from sexual harassment by their Saudi employers, the stereotype of the sexy pasty-faced Northern European as opposed to the non-sexy Mediterranean etc etc etc. The evidence for your theory is overwhelming. NOT.
The biological preference you refer to is bunkum. Now the social preference is another matter.
Aish’s Loreal White Perfect Ad: (yes, the name is disgusting!)
http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=RNWE,RNWE:2004-28,RNWE:en&q=%22white%20perfect%22%20aishwarya&sa=N&tab=wi
Anand with your irrelevant last post you have proved once again that you are a troll. Further postings shall not be dignified with a response.
Dharma queen: You are also confusing rape with sexual attraction. Sexual violence is a form of control and domination. The rape you mentioned in Saudi Arabia or the American South is similar in nature to prison rapes where the urge to dominate and control is the motivating force and not sexual attraction. The proportion of white women married to black men is infitesimal. Typically it is the least desirable of white women who marry or date black men as can be clearly seen in the shopping malls in America. Finally the intra-European stereotypes you mentioned go both ways. Mediteranneans are indeed sometimes stereotyped as sultry with anglos considered pasty. However, mediteranneans are also often stereotyped as short and pudgy and swarthy in contrast with the tall willowy and aristocratic “nordic” (danny devito and schwarzenegger in Twins). There are some exceptions to the general preference for fairer skinned people such as Heidi Klum and Boris Becker, but thats why they generate so much buzz, because they are an exception to the general rule. Human behavior is indeed an interesting phenomenon to watch.
i’d need to wake up beside her and see how she fares after a long night of wiggles and wriggles. she could be one of those models who’s a borderline CHUDAIL.
oh, and didn’t know about Katrina Kaif until you mentioned her, Amitbah. droooool
you are not bo
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blockquote>rn with a right to be considered beautifu
well said Anand. The thing is this type of physical preference is common among every culture. The oriental ppl for instance prefer big round eyes(inspite the fact that vast majority of those ppl don’t have it). I really don’t see any chinese girl gettin on prime time tv and complain about how she is preceived in her community. It doubly reeks when she talks about making a statement about the color of her skin being beautiful… yet lets change the color of the eyes. Kindo hypocritical. Lets call her for what she is… a superficial dudedtte with possibly low self esteem and little future trying to do what she can to get some sympathy and attention. I believe she has succeded in the attention part… and sympathy might come from Tyra Banks(which probably was the point).
AC,
I’ve mentioned Katrina Kaif a couple of times before on SM (you probably missed those comments as you were no doubt busy with more antics involving Pinky).
Amitabh’s right on the money about her. Very nice indeed. Salman (Khan, not Rushdie) is a very lucky guy.
I always suspect that the colorists are also racists, and probably homophobes and sexists as well…Anand’s comment about white women and blacks certainly confirms this. You need to get out more, Anand. In my city, there is a very large proportion of interracial couples, many of whom are attractive middle class whites with attractive middle class blacks. Tell me, how do Indians fit into this complexion-determined scale of attractiveness you’ve set up in your rather sad little world? Let me guess – the fair ones are just able to snag the uglier whiteys, right? Because snagging Whitey is what they so desperately want to do?
Lets call her for what she is… a superficial dudedtte with possibly low self esteem and little future trying to do what she can to get some sympathy and attention. I believe she has succeded in the attention part… and sympathy might come from Tyra Banks(which probably was the point).
Hold your horses there buddy. Without knowing her or anything about here, to call her sueprficial now that was very judgemental of you.
By the same token we all work at gas-stations, 7-11s or drive cabs right?
Chitowndesi,
East Asians favouring big eyes is a modern phenomenon. In Sei Shonagan’s Pillow Book, for instance, the favoured eye is the most pronouncedly East Asian of all – extremely narrow and long, with no fold. Old Chinese and Japanese pictures depict heroes and heroines with just such eyes. The big-eye trend (and the accompanying desire for lid surgery) is most probably the result of exposure to Western (read white) beauty ideals.
dharma queen:
I have no interest in being a “racist” (meaning hating people because of their color) but I do believe in honesty. Perhaps you live in some exceptional city in America. I live in New York City and the VAST majority of white women who pair with black men are what would be considered unattractive in the US. By that I mean they are overweight, and of very homely countenance. I am not implying a hierarchy nor am I implying that this preference for fair skin is iron clad and absolute; however, it is present as a general rule. There are occassional exceptions but for the most part, all else being reasonably equal, fair skinned people, especially women, are preferred over their darker skinned counterparts as sexual partners. This exists in india, the middle east, among the japanese and this phenomenon is simply too pervasive to be explained by a few generations of relatively superficial western dominance. Even among the whites, there is a distict preference for fair haired women. You, and a lot of ABDs who discuss this issue, sound really bitter and seem to have some sort of emotional investment in this issue. I don’t know what it is but t seems like some kind of childish necessity to disparage those characteristics that are appreciated but that you may not possess yourself.
Anand,
Has the possibility struck you that the preference for fair skin you consistently observe may stem from socio-economic reasons and not from biological ones?
I live in Montreal. We tend not to have racial/ethnic ghettoes in Canada, with a few exceptions – in any case, I think it’s fair to say that the stratification between classes is not nearly so severe here as in the States. And in my city, you consistently observe the crossing of the color/complexion line without class implications (ie mediocre black chick with hot French guy).
Lastly, the crack about a personal axe to grind is a cheap one, and oft repeated by those who sense their arguments to be weak. It can’t be warded off without ridiculous measures (ie I’m hot! I’m really hot!) so I won’t bother.
dharma queen:
I think you and many others who share your belief that non-western people found their own features just beautiful and then along came the white man who defeated them and controlled their minds are crediting the white man with a lot more power than he actually has. Could it remotely be possible that all humans find some western-ish features to be more beautiful and that once exposed to it they find it better than their own features ? You never know with human behavior. In the case of Japan, who have competed with the western world on an equal footing since the 19th century and have outclassed america in many industries, there is no reason for them to want to look american because of being the submissive party. It might just be that some wstern traits like round eyes and fair skin are basically appealing to humans around the world. On the other hand, some western traits among women such as large bones, and wrinkled skin at a young age are not. Once again dharma queen, deal with it.
Thanx Notkissed. I’m just sitting here with my mouth open. Wow. This is definitely something to yak about at work.
BTW since when are interracial couples the norm? Even in a big city like NYC they have only become more visible in the past 10 years or so. Racial divides in the meantime still exist in the rest of the US.
And are we confusing the issue of race versus color of skin?? My friend Stacey is black but about 10 shades lighter skinned than me. She’s still black and I’m still Indian. We are still two different races which have cultural differences that are more in play in a relationship between two people than simply the color of their skin.
This is a curiously american concept of calling someone with 1 black great grandparent as black. I know this stems from the one drop rule, but it makes some Indians look ridiculous, especially the dark ones who like to claim they are “Aryans” or “Caucasians” when in fact they are much darker than people considered black in America. Indians are very good at weaving tangled webs of pride and emotion when confronted with blunt cold reality.
It’s quite surprising that the families of quite a lot of people posting here are so colour-obsessed. Is this a rural-vs-cosmopolitan thing, or generational?
You can’t blame Caucasians for traditional concepts of beauty around the world. Beauty has always been defined by what is rare in a society. In East Asia, big eyes, plump cheeks and fair skin are beautiful because 1) it is not common and 2)a plump body and fair skin meant that women/men were of the upper class (they didnt work outside, hence lighter skin and had access to food). This concept of beauty used to be part of old European society as well, but there is no correlation between the two.
Of course now Caucasians want to be thin and dusky. Asians still define beauty by fairness but the plump part is somewhat out.
Societal beauty is just what you are not.
Anand,
You have not addressed the following: The Japanese and other East Asians did find extremely narrow, long eyes, and small noses, desirable – prior to contact with whites. Many black tribes consider that the blacker the skin, the more beautiful. If I am not mistaken, there were traditional skin-blackening agents used by many African women. Now urban, middle-class Africans find light-skinned, European looking African-Americans to be their ideal. It’s called the colonization of the mind.
And while the Japanese might have competed on an economic level with the West, Japan has, since the second World War, been under the thumb of the West in terms of any real power. Besides which, being the one successful Asian nation does not automatically make the Japanese free from the insecurity of the powerless – any more than being the only successful minority in a room full of white people makes you more likely to love your non-whiteness.
This does not happen.
Notkissed, In East Asia, ‘big eyes’ were not traditionally viewed as beautiful – long, narrow eyes were.
East Asians favouring big eyes is a modern phenomenon. In Sei Shonagan’s Pillow Book, for instance, the favoured eye is the most pronouncedly East Asian of all – extremely narrow and long, with no fold. Old Chinese and Japanese pictures depict heroes and heroines with just such eyes. The big-eye trend (and the accompanying desire for lid surgery) is most probably the result of exposure to Western (read white) beauty ideals.
I’m sure u get my point. Which is that every culture has its own idea of physical beauty. I can care less what the reasons for those are, but they exist everywhere. Whether its oriental ppl prefering round eyes, white ppl prefering blue eyes and blond hair with tan olive skin, there is a preference. You don’t see ppl of those culture going around saying “my ppl are bad racist judgemental and don’t like me because I don’t have those features and I want to prove them wrong.”
Hold your horses there buddy. Without knowing her or anything about here, to call her sueprficial now that was very judgemental of you.
yep don’t know her, but have read enough to make an opinion. And these were all my personal observation/opinion.
By the same token we all work at gas-stations, 7-11s or drive cabs right?
19yo sales clerk.. not in school i presume, a true winner here!!
she is hot tho
Why is everyone letting Anand get away with the blatantly racist ‘only ugly white women pair up with black men’ line? The guy’s a bigot.
Jai: I totally didn’t make the Padma Lakshmi connection…I was thinking Salman Khan, not Rushdie. I think Padma is far from hot too…Now Katrina…well, see below (you too AC).
http://gallery.techarena.in/showphoto.php/photo/7966
DQ just tell us what to type and when to type it and that’ll be that. You let us know when A) ogling is good B) when its bad C) who to yell at next
🙂
What about all the east asian men who are pissed that so many asian girls think white guys are where its at?
There’s a dearth of black men who prefer lighter skin. Most black women prefer very dark skinned men with stereotypically negroid features. And I say stereotypically because it is possible for black people who haven’t been significantly mixed to have what people would consider caucasian features. Nadine is a good example. Anyway, black women used to only want lighter skinned men, but they are no longer popular.
dharma queen:
Is that the best you can come up with ? Screaming “racist” is a pretty poor debating technique. I have stated repeatedly that while there ARE exceptions, it is much more common for white women who are either unatractive by american aesthetic standards or lower class or both to pair up with black men.No one living in the western world is going to deny that. Also, regarding your comment about the japanese, my point was that they maight have found asian eyes beautiful before encountering westerners, but it might be possible that after they met westerners, they started preferring rounder eyes because it might be that rounder eyes are ore agreeable to humans in general. Its just a hypothesis. And the relationship of east asians to americans and europeans is not nearly the same as that of nonwhites in america to american whites. The east asians defeated russia back in 1909, they defeated the brtish and the dutch soundly in WW2 and they gave america a far tougher fight than did the germans. The japanese also managed to trash america’s electronics industry and car industries so they have no reason to feel inferior to the western world. Any western cultural attributes they adopt are purely out of their own volition, not the “colonization of the mind” crap you are spouting. It may just be that they now find rounder eyes better, and not because they feel inferior to americans. Even Indians, who have been dominated by the brtish for 200 years, do not find anglo-saxon beauty better than the homegrown fair skinned indian look, which existed and was put on a pedestal long before the brits came to india. You seem to be too much in awe of the white man and his alleged power to colonize minds and hearts. Get out of your little canuck existence and see the world a little. I am done with this senseless topic. Cheers
Where do you get that idea? Where do you live that you think this is true? ?? ??
(DQ here I come, just for you my sweet)
Dharma Queen,
You make it sound like Asia was just this isolated place with no movement or travels until the Whites came along. This is vastly incorrect. Trade throughout Asia has happened for centuries. Arabs, Indians, Southeast Asians and East Asians have all traded with each other and in fact passed cultural and religious traditions.
Within China itself, there are so many ethnicities. Further West you go, you will encounter more Tibetan/Indian looking people. Further South, more Thai looking people. Further North, more Mongol looking people.
It wasn’t like East Asians never saw a round eye before. You can’t blame just Whites for this concept of beauty – there was migration and travels throughout Asia before the modern age.
I’m with JOAT. She has that typically annoying model body. Her boobs are OK but she needs more junk in the trunk and her legs are way too skinny. Her face, while perfect, is almost too much so, like a manniquen, and somehow not sexy. i theorize that with so many gay men in the fashion industry, they’ve imposed their gay aesthetic on the female form, essentially de-sexualizing it by removing attributes men are genetically wired to lust: breasts, hips, and body fat (a secondary sexual characteristic).
the world would be a better place if we let beyonce and bipasha basu lead the way. I, for one, would love to be behind them.
What about all the east asian men who are pissed that so many asian girls think white guys are where its at?
I think its a different topic. More asian men are forced to be single because their counterparts don’t prefer their looks. Lets call it sexual deprevation? Are darker indian girls deprived? My observation is no. Anchal might be doing just fine in that dept. lol
Can you really seperate historical factors from present-day factors without doing research? How are you going to determine whether someone’s preference is due to something that happened to them 5 mintues ago, or something that happened in their culture 500 years ago? Why not focus on your own personal aesthetic preferences or historical information, if possible
In my experience, the above is not true…I’ve seen MANY gorgeous white women with black guys. Although I’m not a sociologist, my gut impression is that maybe 10 years ago (when white woman-black guy combos started becoming more noticeable), many of the white women were doing it to rebel, be wild, piss off their parents, etc. or because of certain alleged (but probably accurate) anatomical traits. But I think now they do it because they genuinely like/love the black guy they’re with, and many of the said black guys are indeed polished, educated, stylish, and successful. And in my experience, white women in the good old USA are not racist or prejudiced when it comes to dating someone…if they find you attractive and fun to be with, they’ll date you, period. Indian men included.
To each their own, but her boobs are smoking and her body is fine – (all for you DQ)
Anand,
I live in the Western world (though judging from your disparaging comment about Canucks, you don’t consider Canada part of it) and would absolutely deny your ridiculous claim that only ugly or poor white women pair up with blacks. And yes, making such a statement qualifies you as a bigot (not to mention the remark about the ‘little Canuck existence’).
Your inconsistency is mind boggling. So now you state that Indians prefer fair-skinned Indians, but do not like the even fairer Anglo-Saxon beauty – in stark contradiction to your previous hypothesis about fair skin being biologically preferred, period. You missed my point about the Japanese. They could trash the Americans/Europeans in various domains; that wouldn’t keep them from being the only Asians in the ‘club’. And as such, there might be an overwhelming desire to conform to the ideals of the club.
dq: “would absolutely deny your ridiculous claim that only ugly or poor white women pair up with blacks”
Maybe you need to take the time to read harder…I said this is the case most of the time although there are exceptions.
My point about Indians was that the preference for fair skin was not absolute but general. That means there is a tendency for all else being equal, fair skin is preferred. In India, a fair indian girl IS typically preferred to a dark indian girl. A fair anglo girl wil not be preferred because all else is NOT equal; her fairness is too foreign looking and carries some cultural connotations that are at odds with typical indian ideals of femininity. On the other hand, I have noticed that some middle eastern and mediterannean girls get much more attention because their fairness more closely approximates indian fairness. Sexuality and physical attraction are too complex for crackpot women like yourselves to sanitize with your politically correct nonsense.
Chitowndesi, Yes, I might have made it sound like Asians were like Native Americans, or something, and had no contact with whites prior to a certain time. Not what I meant to do – nor do I ‘blame Whites’. I blame those who internalize ideals of beauty based on power dynamics or socio-economic factors, whoever they are. I do think many Asian cultures have adopted the ideals of Western nations because these nations have been dominant for a long time. Possibly, as they become less dominant, Asian cultures will go back to valuing those aspects of their own physiques which are unique to them (ie tilted long narrow eyes).
Nelly Furtado is hot
brown. 100. Rani Muhkerjee. Sex. Love. Intercourse. Colonialism. Liberation. Fin