Life in the Stone Age wasn’t easy

This Sunday evening CBS’s 60 Minutes has what is promising to be an explosive interview with President Pervez Musharraf. Check out the tidbit they have leaked early:

President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan tells Steve Kroft that after 9/11, the U.S. threatened to bomb his country if it didn’t help America’s war on terrorism.

Kroft’s interview with the Pakistani leader, in which he also discusses his embarrassment over his country’s nuclear secrets getting into the hands of other nations, will be broadcast Sunday, Sept. 24, at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

Musharraf says the threat came from then-Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and was delivered to Musharraf’s intelligence director.

“The intelligence director told me that (Armitage) said, ‘Be prepared to be bombed. Be prepared to go back to the Stone Age,’ ” recalls Musharraf. It was insulting, he says. “I think it was a very rude remark.” But he reacted to it in a responsible way, he tells Kroft. “One has to think and take actions in the interests of the nation, and that’s what I did…” [Link]

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p>Geez. That Armitage seems to have a big mouth. I’m sure we all figured that Pakistan was strong-armed into turning on the Taliban (as well they should have been), but hearing that such stark language was used is almost as surprising as hearing Musharraf admit it. I’m not sure how this will go over with some in the home crowd. Musharraf also admits to his most embarrassing moment as President:

“(Tenet) took his briefcase out, passed me some papers. It was a centrifuge design with all its numbers and signatures of Pakistan. It was the most embarrassing moment,” Musharraf reveals. He learned then, he says, that not only were blueprints being given to Iran and North Korea, but the centrifuges themselves — the crucial technology needed to enrich uranium to weapons grade — were being passed to them. “(Khan) gave them centrifuge designs. He gave them centrifuge parts. He gave them centrifuges.”

Despite the fact that the military was guarding Khan’s nuclear facilities and the total amount of secret material sent from the lab was more than 18 tons, Musharraf denies anyone in the government or military had to know. [Link]

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p>Incidentally, Mr. Musharraf is stateside right now and just attended a conference with the likes of Bill Clinton and Laura Bush.

Mr. Musharraf took the lead as news-making head of state. He said “a lot of tensions in the Muslim world” were caused by the furor involving Pope Benedict XVI’s citation of a medieval text saying some of Muhammad’s teachings were “evil and inhuman.” Mr. Musharraf added that the pope’s remarks “were most unwarranted.”

“It is a time for interfaith harmony,” Mr. Musharraf said later in the conference session. No one has the right, he continued, “to hurt anybody else’s feelings, least of all at this time.”

Referring to Muslims, Mr. Musharraf added: “The world thinks that we don’t believe in democracy, we don’t believe in modernization, we don’t believe in secularism. Let me assure this house that Islam in theory believes in all of them.”

Mr. Musharraf also said the continued presence of American troops in Afghanistan was contributing to the resurgence of the Taliban and was intensifying instability there.

“They are coming back because of the presence of foreign troops,” he said. “There certainly is an antipathy to foreign presence in Afghanistan.”

The Pakistani leader emphasized that in his view, the conflict between the Israeli and Palestinian governments remained the greatest threat to security and political stability in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Lebanon.

“It lies at the core of everything,” he said. “We must not open new fronts — we must start closing fronts…” [Link]

Those are some wise words that he ends with.

103 thoughts on “Life in the Stone Age wasn’t easy

  1. A Hindi idiom describes Mushy’s interview quite aptly – “Sau-sau chuhe khaker billi Haj ko Chali”. It means that after feasting on hundreds of rats, the cat is now going to the Haj for penance. What more can I say?

    Regards, Aninda

  2. I’m glad Islam like democracy. I knew Islam back in University (Islam Khan). He seemed like the typical deis engineer-idiot, mostly drinking, partying, and studying. Good for Islam. But does what does Pervez Musharraf think of democracy? Not much, it seems.

    Musharraf on the Daily Show should be interesting, though Stewart has a tendency to suck up to political guests.

  3. Nice one Ikram. Sometimes when I watch Musharraf, I think Mel Brooks is going to appear and yell “Cut..”

  4. An excellent op-ed piece appreared in the WSJ yesterday –see below

    MUSHARRAFISTAN by Mansoor Ijaz Wall Street Journal Online September 20, 2006 A client state for sale to the highest bidder

    Mr. Ijaz is a New York financier of Pakistani ancestry

    Gen. Pervez Musharraf will speak tomorrow at the Clinton Global Initiative’s plenary session on “Urgent Issues and Innovative Solutions” — an apt title for a talk by the Pakistani ruler given the urgency and array of problems he faces at home. Pakistan needs not just innovative solutions for its difficulties, but a leader with ideas to frame them and the guts to implement them. Increasingly, Gen. Musharraf does not appear to be that man.

    His Pakistan has become a sad story of contradictions. Islamabad is propped up by U.S. taxpayer dollars to be the frontline ally in America’s war against extremists, yet Gen. Musharraf has repeatedly appeased radicals for political gain while al Qaeda leaders actively use his soil to plan attacks around the world. The British transatlantic jumbo-jet terror plot last month was a case in point — Pakistan’s arrests of militants in Karachi, Lahore and along the Afghan border may have helped expose the plan, but British nationals of Pakistani origin visited the country to meet al Qaeda co-conspirators and allegedly issued the “Go” instruction from Pakistani soil.

    Another example emerged in late August, when the Musharraf regime signed a peace treaty with restless tribal chieftains in the northern frontiers along the border with Afghanistan that effectively ended the hunt for Osama bin Laden, America’s most wanted man. The northern tribal areas are now left unattended to become a state within the state that offers haven to the civilized world’s worst enemies. The irony could not be more complete — America’s staunchest ally presides over the breeding grounds of the very people who seek to kill as many Americans as they can, while U.S. taxpayers foot the bill.


    There are other disturbing hypocrisies. Gen. Musharraf’s regime manages to pour billions into plutonium processing plants and, soon, into Chinese nuclear reactors, but cannot find enough money to feed or educate Pakistan’s children — many of whom are growing up to be tomorrow’s extremists. Rogue elements inside Islamabad’s nuclear program are permitted to arm dangerously unstable governments with nuclear technology and know-how in pursuit of ill-gotten gains — and some misguided notion of an Islamist panacea. But science and math are off the curriculum at the nation’s radicalized, Saudi-funded madrassahs. And Pakistan’s economic potential remains locked in a feudal past, where land and labor are the bane of corrupt barons who pander to an army that no longer acts as guardian of the state, but as if it is the state.

    Neighborly relations are equally dismal despite recent attempts to shore them up. Gen. Musharraf continues to court Tehran’s mullahs, raising Washington’s ire, in hopes of building an Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline that could fund a revival of the Kashmiris’ militant insurgency against India, and keep his restive Inter-Services Intelligence minders happy. His peace overtures to New Delhi, including his recent commitment to restart stalled peace talks at a meeting with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on the sidelines of the Non-Aligned Movement meeting in Cuba, ring hollow after evidence seems to prove time and again that Pakistani soil — and resources made available from Pakistan — are being used to back terrorist attacks against India.

    Gen. Musharraf’s recent trip to Kabul, made under heavy pressure from Washington, was little more than an exercise in damage control. A resurgent Taliban has successfully used its northern Pakistani sanctuary to launch attacks on Hamid Karzai’s government while bringing down U.S. helicopters with shoulder-fired missiles. Anywhere else, such actions would be sufficient to disqualify a head of state from remaining in government.

    Pakistan has lost its identity. It is a client state for sale to the highest bidder for the purpose that suits the moment: to the U.S. after 9/11 as the staging grounds for hunting down terrorists; to Saudi Arabia since the Iranian revolution so that Wahhabist Islam could flourish next door to Shiite Iran; and to China as a strategic counterbalance to India’s growing power. While this short-sighted strategy may help ward off complete state failure, it does not provide fertile ground for imaginative plans to realize the country’s potential. Gen. Musharraf must stop being all things to all people, and gather the resolve to tackle what is wrong with Pakistan — or step down from power. He, or his successor, needs to do the following, and fast:

    End the hypocritical alliance with jihadist parties and Islamist activists. Pakistan in the 1970s tolerated student-protest movements, trade unions and serf cooperatives. Political thinking thrived. But Gen. Musharraf’s power grab in October 1999 resulted in the death of Pakistan’s political class and the institutions that sustain democratic rule. Political necessity and the realities of a post-9/11 world forced him to make a devil’s bargain with religious zealots that destroyed what was left of Pakistan’s polity. Islamists, however, want the “one man, one vote, one time” version of democracy, not constitutionally assured electoral continuity.

    Pakistan’s next leader needs to rebuild the foundations of self-rule by bringing back debate, permitting protest and reviving analytical thinking as the cornerstones of a functioning polity. Democratic institutions and protections are rights and privileges no single man has the authority to deprive a nation of.

    Change the direction of the nuclear program. Pakistan’s next leader needs to radically rethink its nuclear policy. The army has enough bombs in storage to blow up the world, so why build expensive plutonium plants that only churn out less detectable, easily transportable bomb-making material that will force the world to spend excessive resources in policing an indeterminate threat? Why not make the nuclear program transparent — and remote from fanatics — by inviting international teams to man its nuclear facilities? That way, Pakistan could soon serve as a global processing center to handle nuclear materials for a wide array of countries under a new non-proliferation regime. That is the path India is likely to choose when its reactors are refurbished under the new U.S.-India nuclear pact. Safe, civilian nuclear energy available to Pakistan’s citizenry and one day, to the rest of the world, is the best use of Pakistan’s nuclear talents.

    Build a real economy that integrates Pakistan into the world. Pakistanis are a most industrious and intelligent workforce; expatriate income is a cornerstone of Pakistan’s economy. Just witness Dubai’s construction-boom riches flowing into the country unabated. Yet Pakistan’s feudal class has stifled domestic growth and crippled the economy at home by manipulating industrial output, failing to reinvest in business and indulging corruption on the grandest of scales.

    The next leader needs to formulate an imaginative proposal to wean the country off the dependencies that define feudal politics, and give the landowning class a stake in a modern, industrial economy. Land barons can profit from letting land to large, agrarian multinational businesses with modern technology that improves productivity, as opposed to taxing their serfs into oblivion.

    Construct real peace, not mirages that mask tension. Pakistan’s neighbors no longer have cause to want to destabilize it, and, in fact, would prefer a strong and stable country on their borders. India is busy building a world-class economy; making peace with Pakistan over disputed Kashmir is an important priority in that effort. Meetings and dialogue between the leaders of both countries are important, but it’s time to end the talk and walk the walk. Jihadists are not the solution for Kashmir, a fact that Pakistan’s next leader must recognize from the outset. Wresting Kashmir from India by force is not possible, and militarily not prudent. Furthermore, a Pakistan at peace with India would no longer require “strategic depth” by controlling or manipulating affairs in Afghanistan.

    The leader of Pakistan will speak tomorrow about innovative solutions for urgent issues. Indeed, Pakistan needs imaginative leaders to formulate creative solutions for its many problems. The world needs a strong Pakistan that puts its brilliant minds to good use for the betterment of its people so the country can fulfill its promise. It’s time for Pervez Musharraf to either deliver on that promise — or step aside, and let those who can take on the job.

  5. i wouldn’t trust musharraf with a 1,000-foot pole, but i have to admit one thing: when it comes to slick pr and selling himself to the western media and getting his viewpoint across, he leaves most indian politicians in the dust.

  6. Geez. That Armitage seems to have a big mouth.

    Sometimes I think Karl Rove and Cheney just threatened him or somehow persuaded him to take the fault for the Plame leak so they their asses would be covered. It’s just a bit too conveninent that after such a long investigation, Armitage comes out and say “Oops, I did that” and now we’re supposed to forgive all the others in this case. Don’t think so.

  7. Pakistani politicians have always been much better than Indians in sucking up to the USA. Benazir Bhutto was far better than Rajiv G, or the various brown men that followed him (PV what?). Even Zia had a style that (bizarrely) appealed to western oriental tropes (big punjabi mustache…). Mushman is better than Manmohan. And can you imagine Vajpayee on the Daily Show?!

    It’s probably because Pakistani politics (including its military adjunct), is still controlled by the elite westernized class. In India, Laloo (my hero!), Mayawati, and others have a chance at leading, but they can’t relate to the Americans.

  8. Msuhman is quite good when it comes to PR etc. But in the end Mushman gets the brownie points..while Manmohan gets the real treat.

  9. what gets me his Mushy thought he was being ‘rude’. LOL!!!

    if some dude called me and said that… come on.

  10. Sometimes I think Karl Rove and Cheney just threatened him or somehow persuaded him to take the fault for the Plame leak so they their asses would be covered. It’s just a bit too conveninent that after such a long investigation, Armitage comes out and say “Oops, I did that” and now we’re supposed to forgive all the others in this case. Don’t think so.

    Novak’s recent comments :

    Zealous foes of George W. Bush transformed me improbably into the president’s lapdog. But they cannot fit Armitage into the left-wing fantasy of a well-crafted White House conspiracy to destroy Joe and Valerie Wilson. The news that he and not Karl Rove was the leaker was devastating news for the Left.Armitage’s leak
  11. I think Musharraf should be commended for saving his nation from being bombed back to the stone age.

  12. On sept 26. As for commended, he did well with the weak hand he was dealt, but he can do far less than an elected leader with real legitimacy. No PK dictator has lasted longer than ten years — too much turns to shit by then — Musharraf should bow out gracefully.

    Also — would be nice is while he was in the US, someone brought up the Woman’s Prtection bill currently stuck in Parliament. Eteraz’ blog has more details.

  13. actually i think rajiv gandhi was pretty effective. he was telegenic and had that boyish charm. i remember when he once dared to take on the iron lady herself, thatcher, at a commonwealth heads of government meeting. of course she was no pushover herself and sort of dismissed him in a benign grandmotherly way. but he made big waves at that conference. but other indian politicians who are part of the westernized elite, and manmohan singh is moreso than vajpayee in this context, somehow either don’t want to or are less effective at utilizing the western media. and perhaps, as you said, the closer historical political relationship between pakistan and the u.s. partially accounts for this.

    “But in the end Mushman gets the brownie points..while Manmohan gets the real treat.”

    sometimes the public doesn’t really understand the difference. i remember an american saying some years ago “why is india being so mean to musharaff?” although i think it’s harder these days for musharraf pr-wise.

  14. As for commended, he did well with the weak hand he was dealt, but he can do far less than an elected leader with real legitimacy.

    True, but I am not sure whether a democratically elected Pakistani government would have been able to support the US invasion of Afghanistan. There were a lot of forces in Pakistan trying to keep Pakistan atleast neutral in the US invasion of Afghanistan and it was rather courageous of Musharraf to take them on (correctly IMO) and support the US invasion anyway. He has almost paid with his life for that decision and if not for good fortune he would have almost certainly died in one of the 2 assasination attempts against him by the salafist jihadis.

  15. Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf, touring the United States, is set for a high-profile launch of his autobiography in New York on September 25. Keeping up with his commando image, the title of Musharraf’s autobiography is the same as the Clint Eastwood Hollywood movie, In the Line of Fire. Musharraf will be interviewed on NBC. The President will also make an appearance on Comedy Central’s Daily Show with Jon Stewart, Pakistani newspaper ‘Daily Times’ reported. He will also be interviewed on National Public Radio’s Morning Edition, which is heard through local affiliates around the country. [Link]
  16. I just watched Karzai interviewed two days ago, I can’t remember who interviewed him, maybe Wolf Blitzer? (I’ve been watching the news constantly because of the circus acts at the UN) He was declaring that Musharraf knew, and still knows, where top leaders of Al Qaeda and Taliban are hiding in Pakistan. Moreover, when Karzai’s government located them in Pakistan, and actually informed Musharraf of the addresses, he claimed that they were old addresses, that they had moved. So in terms of his effectiveness at playing “America’s ally” in the region, I think Musharraf might want to put some actions to his words, especially if Karzai is calling him out on CNN.

  17. I have to agree with Ikram that Pakistani leaders are more palatable/ saleable than Indian ones in West. It is because what people holds the power – Benazir was a Harvard-Radcliff-Oxford graduate.

    Except Nehru. Even, Indira Gandhi was quite polarizing in West.

    On the other hand, I think Laloos of India desevere their chance – after all, they are elected by the people.

    I once went to Benazir Bhutto’s talk at Cornell. The auditorium was completely filled, and everyone went ga-ga, all the American girls wanted to be Pinky (Benazir’s well-known nickname). She spoke very well.

    I also think Pakistani wonks, lobbyists, and well wishers are more erudite – they are not running around in confused “South Asian” brouhaha or being Pankaj Mishra.

    Back to the topic, Musharraf is in a mess that is not going to be cleaned overnight.

  18. Ikram (#8): Well said! It really irritates me when Indian elites look down on their elected, populist and popular leaders like Laloo, Mayawati, Jayalalitha or Vajpayee. Their embarassment is pathetic and short-sighted. These are the same folks that yearn for the days of the Emergency when things “ran on time” (“bhai ek baat to manna padega, trains ghadi par to chali” et. al).

    Desi elites are the BIGGEST opponents of democracy on the subcontinent.

  19. It’s inconceivable that Musharaff or senior people in the Army establishment did not know what AQ Khan was doing.

  20. In India, Laloo (my hero!), Mayawati, and others have a chance at leading, but they can’t relate to the Americans.

    you do know… that the Laloo and his methods are being studied in B-schools for turning around the indian railways.

    democracy works – warts and all.

  21. I like the way Musharaff play’s the apres moi le deluge card, one hand pointing out how Pakistan is a moderate stable country and then subtly telling people how the next guy may be a wild-eyed fanatic.

    ManMohan should say “Make your deals with me now, atlest you understand where I come from, after me there’s Lalu with 30 years experience in Bihar politics”.

  22. here’s how b-schools do the read. Laloo is the CEO who led the turnaround of a $4.4Billion company – with possibly the top-50 employee headcount, top-50 markt cap, … in the country.

    following up to #24

  23. I like the way Musharaff play’s the apres moi le deluge card, one hand pointing out how Pakistan is a moderate stable country and then subtly telling people how the next guy may be a wild-eyed fanatic.

    Strobe Talbott said it best in Engaging India (I paraphrase): Pakistan is like the mugger that threatens to blow HIS OWN brains out if you don’t give him your wallet.

  24. sorry.. i meant “the world” rather than “the country”… i changed the sentence at eh last mo’ trying to make it more impactful

  25. …they are not running around in confused “South Asian” brouhaha …

    Can’t we just say Indian leaders and diplomats are lagging on the PR front, without pinning the blame on some unrelated cause without any substantiation.

  26. you do know… that the Laloo and his methods are being studied in B-schools for turning around the indian railways. democracy works – warts and all.

    Just like they did in Italy under Mussolini, right? Sorry, I know that one’s getting tired.

    Quite a few people seem to think Yadav is just the peachiest guy ever. I think he’s a bit more complex than all that. Yes, he’s done wonders for the railway system. But the guy’s so corrupt that when he ordered a committee to investigate where the funds were going, they traced it back to him. And even to them, the committee members themselves! Yeesh.

    This is democracy “working?” The guy didn’t do all that much for Bihar, either. Let’s not get all carried away.

  27. The Pakistani leader emphasized that in his view, the conflict between the Israeli and Palestinian governments remained the greatest threat to security and political stability in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Lebanon.

    Good that he is now outta of K..world. Looked like he shed it after watching LRMB πŸ™‚

  28. democracy works

    Well everything works…now and then. C’mon, what Laloo did to Bihar over 15 years is forgotten by one IIM case study? And what do you think of all the ‘history-sheeter’ criminals in Parliament? Democracy does works in mysterious ways.

    I agree there could be worse options to democracy in India, but this is getting positively maudlin here.

  29. Can’t we just say Indian leaders and diplomats are lagging on the PR front, without pinning the blame on some unrelated cause without any substantiation.

    I wasn’t casting my net on Indian leaders and diplomats only but also the larger diaspora. My beef is with nonchalance, vague ideas (cold war frame of mind, nonaligned ideaology in post-USSR world, summer of South Asian love), and subtle disassociation. Pakistanis leaders and their spokepersons have never been sidetracked.


    To contrdict myself, I will give five stars (*****) to Indian Silicon Valley types along with Azim Premjis in India for being part of the catalyst for Indian economy. Regarding PR, I think the small fraction of new crowd is up to the mark.

    In past also, they have been brilliant spokesperson of India – a few of them – like MC Chagla for India in UN. There is also new crop of MPs (Sachin Pilot, Milind Deora, etc.) in India who are promising but with no real clout yet.

    In some ways, I am also fascinated by Laloo and his staying power or Jaya Amma. Yes, he is being studied in B-school.

  30. Yes, he’s done wonders for the railway system. But the guy’s so corrupt that when he ordered a committee to investigate where the funds were going, they traced it back to him. And even to them, the committee members themselves! Yeesh.

    ok i dont know about all this other stuff… but really… turning around a $4b company is not a cakewalk… and that’s what i was applauding… not excusing corruption… it does indicate a problem with the system that the leader of such an organization needs to pad his pocket.

    out here, even among public corporations (Ontario hydro comes to mind) they get a pretty sweet package… but we’re mixing sambhar with rasmalai here.

  31. not excusing corruption… it does indicate a problem with the system that the leader of such an organization needs to pad his pocket.

    He was one of the mail accused in the $200 million so-called ‘fodder scam’, so its not like he needed the money.

    But he must be credited with carving a space for the oppressed castes, in Bihar’s political landscape. But the cost for Bihar has been staggering.

  32. 33. Wait on one hand we are told that SA bloc is tiny & insignificant and on other hand they are partly responsible for our PR debacles. But I am satisfied with your self-contradiction πŸ˜‰

    As for commended, he did well with the weak hand he was dealt, but he can do far less than an elected leader with real legitimacy. No civilian leader ever had real authority over army. Benazir Bhutto came to know about the nuclear program from the americans and not through her intelligence sources. Pakistan is supposed to be defined the three AAA(Army,Allah,America) and democracy is not one of them. Musharraf is responsible for the predicament he finds himself in today. He organised the kargil fiasco & coup against sharif for making peace with India. Only to walk down the same road after coup. He wasn’t dealt a weak hand. He is paying for the consequences of his actions.

  33. Well everything works…now and then. C’mon, what Laloo did to Bihar over 15 years blah blah blah blah blah blah blah…..

    who cares about laloo in the context of this thread? can we please keep on topic.

  34. Voiceinthehead:

    Pakistan is supposed to be defined the three AAA(Army,Allah,America) and democracy is not one of them.

    Mush: Hello….is this AAA roadside assistance ? Operator: Yes Mush: I was driving down the interstate and my country broke down. Can you please send some help ? I’ll prefer any of the the threee A’s.

  35. Yeah there is no question that Pakistan throws up suave grandees who know how to talk the talk in diplomatic circles, and they’re usually handsome to boot – they also come from the same twenty families. As the old quip goes, there are two things always understimated in South Asia: Pakistani dilpomacy and the the Indian Army.

    India has an anglicized grandee class too (busy being progressive South Asians…sorry, I just had to:) , but the populist politicians have marginalized them somehwat over the past twenty years. Mayavati, Vajpayee, Uma Bharati, Jayalalitha etc, have been (or are) the people’s choices, and that’s the way it should be.

  36. Well from wiki, Pakistan’s motto is FUD..

    link

    Finally, the scroll at the bottom contains the national motto of Pakistan in Urdu. The motto is a saying of Muhammad Ali Jinnah, and reads from right to left: (Urdu: ایمان ، اتحاد ، نظم ) Iman, Ittehad, Nazm which translates into “Faith, Unity, Discipline”.

    That reminds me of the usage of FUD in the high-tech world.. link

    Fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD) is a sales or marketing strategy of disseminating negative (and vague) information on a competitor’s product. The term originated to describe misinformation tactics in the computer hardware industry and has since been used more broadly. FUD is a manifestation of the appeal to fear.

    Pakistanis (esp. the rulers) have excelled in FUD from day one.. starting from Jinnah πŸ™‚

  37. India has an anglicized grandee class too (busy being progressive South Asians…sorry, I just had to:) , but the populist politicians have marginalized them somehwat over the past twenty years.

    Well the grandees do get their way occasionally (Manmohan) …

  38. In retrospect(97-99), Mush + Sharif was the best possible combination to bring a turnaround in Pak. Sharif won elections on peace with India plank and he eased out an army chief(karamat) from office. Unconditional American support was waning due to end of cold war. Mush was not an islamist, though he is cool with using them as a tool against India. Nukes have bought some pragmatism among strategic community. Working in tandem they could have bought institutional changes necessary to de-radicalise pak and bring army under civilian control. But then kargil happened and then 9/11. Mush is reaping what he sowed.

    India has an anglicized grandee class too (busy being progressive South Asians…sorry, I just had to:) This is the reason, why I keep saying ToI is not an aberration, but indicative of larger disease. Making wild claims/allegations without facts and then complain of bias. I shall henceforth call such people “ToI fans” πŸ˜‰

    Mayavati, Vajpayee, Uma Bharati, Jayalalitha etc, have been (or are) the people’s choices, and that’s the way it should be. Reminds me of the bachelor and his women(all spinsters btw) trouble. I miss the drama, not the actors. The

  39. Interesting stuff.

    I’m not badly biased against Pakistan, but this blog entry kind of hit home about the hypocrisy of the NeoCon points for invasion.

    ..Every single bogus national security argument made by the neocons for going into Iraq is valid beyond dispute–for Pakistan. And, that was the case before we were duped into Iraq using the exact same criteria that was used at the time to dupe us, some of which is endlessly recycled by extremist, right-wing chicken-hawks to this day….

    One thing about the chart though is that while Iran isn’t a military dictatorship, and I don’t see the relevance of it being in the chart(which the author acknowledges), it is mostly a theocractic one.

    Sad to say, Pakistan, along with so many other sharp operators, has played the White House for fools from the day the Twin Towers fell. In return for an increasingly rare, alleged terrorist suspect that did little beyond aiding the GOP campaign effort, the neocons granted Pakistan billions in sweetheart loan deals and gave them truckloads of cash, beginning while the twisted rubble in NYC was still smoking. Bush then went on to urge Congress to arm Pakistan to the teeth with some of our most sophisticated weapons… To add insult to injury, our so-called War President has reportedly endorsed Pakistan’s truce with the perpetrators of 9-11–and Bali, Madrid, London, etc. Just in case there is any lingering doubt about who Pakistan made a deal with, last week they announced the release of almost every Taliban and Al Qaeda suspect they held, including the ones accused of chopping off the head of American correspondent Daniel Pearl. This week, Pakistan’s military dictator Pervez Musharraf is in the US — no doubt hoping to smoothly take the neocons for suckers one more time — even while our troops are injured and killed by Al Qaeda/Taliban operating out of the sanctuary of western Pakistan.
  40. Musharraf is too shrewd to make such a remark without careful planning. If I had to guess, I’d say he’s realized that the Americans are running out of patience with him (he’s tried the “we’ve almost got them – we’re close to capturing a Big Fish” line one too many times in the last few months), and his inability to control Waziristan and the army’s effective withdrawal from the area have shown the Americans that he wasn’t really capable of delivering what he promised. So now, after playing the “it’s me or the Islamists” card with America, he’s playing the “if you Americans try to do it yourself you’ll provoke anti-American sentiment” card. Perhaps he’s also realizing that the Americans aren’t going to bail him out forever and he may have to make nice with the domestic opposition too. Any Pakistanis on here care to comment?

  41. Comment #43 isn’t by me, in case there is any confusion about the matter (although it does make some good points).


    Musharraf’s disclosure of the threat levelled at him post-9/11 is quite timely, considering that George W. Bush has also just stated that he is prepared to send US troops into Pakistan if there is credible intelligence of Osama bin Laden being located there.

  42. I also think Pakistani wonks, lobbyists, and well wishers are more erudite – they are not running around in confused “South Asian” brouhaha or being Pankaj Mishra.

    You dont like Pankaj Mishra’s writing style? I have read this one and I actually liked it.

  43. Politics is about compromise; samjhauta. India’s leaders understand that very well just as their counterparts in the US and other mature democracies do. So while the suited booted glitterati and chatterati clink glasses and hog the limelight the tedious job of crafting a modus vivendi goes on out of sight and earshot. Lalloo would make a great negotiator and I can see him hitting it off with the people from the heartland be it the Yorkshire Downs, Mississippi, Western China, or Patagonia. And that’s why he was the star of the show when the Indian MPs were in Pakistan, where I have no doubt he would win the polls hands down in any constituency. He certainly has left Bihar a poorer place and has been uncaring about the State’s many crises; but his ability to do good far outweighs his talent for mischief. Although he has become a successful Railways Minister by simply well alone; he is capable of much much more. Jayalalita is a very different sort. She is articulate, polished, and would make a great spokesperson for India. She’s got the smarts to outdo any talkshow host including Jon Stewart. Apart from English she is fluent in Hindi and 1/2 a dozen Indian languages and is reasonably conversant in French (Indu spoke French very well; and the late RaoGaru spoke four European languages). We work with who we are and what we have. Borrowed feathers seldom glitter. Indian politicians and diplomats whatever their appearance may be have performed when it matters. And that is why unlikely combinations have worked so well. Like the time when Vajpayee (a cowbeltwallah) and Salman Khursheed (a Stephanian) successfully staved off a resolution brought by Benazir ‘Pinky’ Bhutto at the UN to censure India. Read Stanley Wolpert’s bio of Bhutto for his account of the Tashkent talks in 1966 when according to im Lal Bahadur Shastri (a 4′ 10” sparrow of a man) wore down Sandhurst educated F/M Ayub Khan leaving Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto speechless. India’s politicians take care of their own. Behind all the vituperation and backbiting there exists a bonhomie across party lines that defies wisdom. When Lalloo’s daughters went to study in Rajasthan they were looked after very well by the then BJP CM; and the current Vice President BS Shekhawat. Take an early morning flight out of the domestic airport in Delhi and you will see politicians of every stripe; North, South, East or West; Left or Right; talking together cordially. The Indian political class is surely venal, irresponsible, selfish, and leaves much to be desired in terms of its competence. Do I wish India had better politicians? Sure! And yeah, I wish I had a beachfront home in the Mediterranean.

  44. Mushy – Γ‚β€œThe world thinks that we donÂ’t believe in democracy, we donÂ’t believe in modernization, we donÂ’t believe in secularism. Let me assure this house that Islam in theory believes in all of them.”

    Esp, as we all know, Secularism, which by the way is sanctified by the Pakistani constitution (sic), in the much loved and respected, Hudood ordinance.

    Mushy ki jai ho, long live the General for Life of Terroristan.

  45. Al Mujahid, Yep, the same dude who complained that there was no English newspaper available at a small town, north Indian bus stand (Butter Chicken in Ludhiana). I like his style, but his world view seems a bit strange at times.