Back in the day, I had an Italian co-worker who had the oh-so-Italian name “Enzo” coupled with the deadly, oh-so-Italian accent. The amazing thing about Enzo was that it didn’t matter one bit what was actually coming out of his mouth – the ladies in the office always had the same swooning reaction, “oh Enzo, say ‘operating system’ again. It sounds so sexy.”
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p>Blech.
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p>Despite having a pretty American accent myself (with an occasional touch of TX), I knew enough about how the world worked to know that one day, just once, I’d love to hear women swoon at the Indian accent. And on that day, my proverbial ship would finally come in and perhaps a few perceived ethnic slights would be righted. But, as Russell Peters once quipped, the primary thing the Indian accent is good for is cutting the tension.“The primary thing the Indian accent is good for is cutting the tension.”
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p>The lesson? Enzo’s Italian accent evoked the exotic beauty, power and grace of a Ferrari the same way DesiTalk brought forth the rugged manliness of Apu.
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p>So, the following commercial didn’t really move my meter much. TV Junkie that I am, I’ve usually got the boob tube on in the background while working. And, as a result, I probably get more than my fair share of 30second pop culture. So like many of you, I’ve come across a series of TV commercials for L’Oreal Cosmetics starring none other than our own Aishwarya Rai…
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p>Exhibit A – an Aishwarya commercial for L’Oreal cosmetics uploaded to Youtube some 6 months ago and thus probably close to a year old. Listen carefully as she, dealing with the intractible tragicomedy that is life, asks if you too “Feel Like Your Dark Hair is Too Dark?” –
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p>Clearly a voiceover. And a bad one at that. And, for now at least, I’ll direct our ethno-authenticity hounds away from the “solve life’s problems / lighten your hairSolve life’s problems / lighten your hair” message.
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p>Still, there’s an important lesson to be gleamed — Aish’s Color / Clarity / Contrast / Symmetry highlighted by blue eyes might be good enough for America’s brunette, aspiring suburban diva’s. BUT, producers feared her accent would detract from the overall motif. Perhaps her voice was seen as an unanticipated touch of Apu where the audience was expecting Enzo. Oh well.
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p>But waiddaminut. Let us observe social evolution before our eyes in less than 12 months. The latest series of L’Oreal commercials has begun to air with a decidedly different tone –
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p>From the innocently posed inquiry “ready to transform your lashes?” to the bold call to action “dare to be daring” we hear Aishwarya and her [uptown / gentrified] desi accent in its raw, full, transformative glory. You, the tired, huddled, housewives of Des Moines with 2.1 kids could be her. In your aspirational dreams. With just the right mascara. Sort of.
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p>Nevertheless, for a moment, let us recognize that while the political wheels of social equality get tripped up by Macaca-gate and whatnot, Madison Avenue appears to be delivering a certain type of progress. However, it’s a front many activists prefer to ignore, others consider inherently antithetical to progress, and some, arguably, wish would go away altogether — the mass market. Middle America’s dreams & aspirations. Wal-Mart’s feminine beauty aisle.
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p>And what shall we call this strange domain? How about The Real World.
An interesting tactical debate for Afro-American observors has been the degree to
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There goes the neighborhood. |
Gay advocates similarly debate the delta between Will&Grace and QueerEye vs. QueerNation and their contribution towards the ongoing sea change in Gay acceptance over the past decade… For African-Americans, Gays, and other historically marginalized groups, both prongs have certainly contributed, but there are important lessons that emerge from trying to tease apart which was and is more effective today and moving forward. Important political lessons.
My opinion should be pretty obvious. But, back to more pressing matters. Legions of desi’s should brace themselves for the moment when The Accent is finally sexy — and that matters to my Real World. While Aishwarya’s undubbed voice might serve as a small step for commercial America, it’s a giant leap for DesiKind.
A family friend who lives in the US wrote a shite book called ‘Impressing The Whites’ that had one important point in it…
Tashie, now that we’ve made friends over caste 🙂 I actually want that book! Richard Crasta, right? Its supposed to be hillarious.
To add more noise to Sepia, I put Google to work and unearthed the following “outlier” photos of Ms. Rai:
without makeup in those 80s hairstyles as a dorky teenager
What miracles time and the right kind of makeup can wrought! 😉
That phrase needs to go the way of bagged spinach.
We’re only till you get that hug you need and stop being aggro and realise that I wasn’t showing off. Having grown up exposed to mostly white people and sheep means that I never got exposed to that old joke that all non Hindus try to say they’re not upper caste. Being part of that thread made me aware of it so I can see the eye rolling from over here, but it was sincerely not meant in a show off way. I was just commenting to DQ that what I myself thought was true too was in fact not totally true, of all converts being from one group. That was the first time I’d even said it and I only even bothered to ask about it this year. I can’t help my Bounty Bar upbringing other than engaging in therapeutic cultural contact by visiting what my sis calls the FOB blog.
Anyways, no you don’t want that book. Richard Crasta or Avatar Prabhu as he likes to call himself is a self-conscious bad writer who takes the unoriginal Unsuccessful Indian Writer route of criticising Rushdie (by calling him the holy cow of Indian literature), showing off that he didn’t become a doctor but did an MA instead, and writing prose so purple it made my eyes bleed.
“That phrase needs to go the way of bagged spinach.”
off topic but i just had to throw away all spinach and mixed greens, fresh bought from the store. annoying but necessary 🙁
What! Put your sister on the blog please.
Hey,its Friday….
Palakgate
She’s 15 and wears blue eyeshadow in broad daylight. I don’t think you need to worry 🙂
Neale, really curious now – what do curry and basmati queens find so appealing in desi guys (aside from their IQs…)?
Btw, there’s a gay Indian comic who did the Just For Laughs festival here in Mtl, and who is hilarious…
Over here those L’Oreal ads with Aish are dubbed in Dutch. I think this is the same for all non-native English speaking countries. It’s really surreal to watch.
What miracles time and the right kind of makeup can wrought! 😉
You forgot the plastic surgery, the botox, the $200/hour personal trainer, the dietician…
That may have something to do that men in general are just more blunt about what they find attractive, and in keeping track, ethnicity is one category. Women seem to keep such opinions to themselves. Although I will say that many female undergrads third year abroad in Europe seemed to have been used for reasons other than studying.
KXB maybe men are more indiscriminate. Some will go after anyone with the right kind of plumbing irrespective of…ahem which “category” that person belongs to.
Nice one, Vinod. OK, this to all the ABDs out there: How many of you can “tone down” your accent when speaking to aunties/uncles? Also, this can be a particularly handy skill, if you plan on doing a Power-point presentation for a South Asian audience:D Peace
UMM What “accent”? To ABDs the FOBs speak with weird accents 🙂
Touché Desidawg, Well, let me rephrase: How many ABDs can mimic the erudite FOB accent (picture Indian news-reader reading English news) without coming across as condescending?:)
“Women seem to keep such opinions to themselves”
Perhaps about more explicit sexual details, but definitely not in general about who they find hot/exotic. Moreso than looks, I think there’s a negative stereotype about the behaviour of desi guys: they’re sexist, expect women to cool and clean and respect their mommy. Maybe that’s ultimately the cause of the ‘turn off.’
Though I must say, it’s not only the goras who run after the ‘exotic’ desi girl. Look at bollywood dances these days. You’ll see the actors dancing with tons of white girls, especially blond white girls, in skimpy clothes. The girls act like they’re crazy about the dancing actors. Do you see any white men dancing behind desi actresses? No.
What’s wrong with respecting your husband’s mother? Many of the divorces amongst ABDs I know are the result of the inability to do just that. Of course, men should respect their wives’ parents too (although at least in the northern Indian culture that’s a fundamentally different relationship)…and I recognize some mother-in-laws are evil…but there is a major attitude problem that a lot of desi women have from the get-go regarding potential future in-laws…it leads to a lot of unhappiness all around, and the husband is always caught in the middle. And from what I’ve seen, the women are often more unhappy later on when they’re divorced and alone.
Regardless of what accent you sport right now, itÂ’s always an ice breaker to switch to Super Apu and get a laugh. As for the best accents I think its mine! (ArenÂ’t I just sooo modest?) Not as clipped as the English, or as harsh as the Australian’s, purely, Durbanite-South African. Although I do apologies for the very Capetonian accent of the popular SA (South African/South Asian) comedian Riaad Mossa:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9G9A15AU4w
We need to stop hating on Ash, always support the brown. Comment #27 Bidismoker, I love the chocolate milk line, I am going to be using it on all sorts of people today…
…expect women to cool and clean and respect their mommy…
Pardon me for being a stickler for grammar, but some posters on here need to spend a teeny weeny bit of time composing their thoughts.
so first you cool down the old woman with a pitcher of ice. Then you clean her with soap and water. Finally show her some respect?
🙂
DesiDawg, thanks for being the spelling and grammar police. Most people who read that post, I’m assuming, will realize that a comma’s missing, and that the ‘l’ in cook is supposed to be a ‘k.’ (<– if that’s a run on sentence, feel free to correct it).
Amitabh, I was only pointing out a negative stereotype. There’s nothing wrong with respecting someone who respects you as well. The other stereotype about Desi inlaws is that they are interfering, they don’t have respect for the privacy of their adult children etc. While I’m not saying I believe all this, I’m pointing out that these may be some of the reasons while white women will not find desi men necessarily appealing. (If there are any grammar/spelling mistakes in this post, DesiDawg, please feel free to point it out in your snarky way.)
The other stereotype about Desi inlaws is that they are interfering, they don’t have respect for the privacy of their adult children etc. While I’m not saying I believe all this, I’m pointing out that these may be some of the reasons while white women will not find desi men necessarily appealing.
So at the bar, at parties, get-togethers and indeed in all forms of social interaction while mildly inebriated- white women think ahead to marriage, the interfering in-laws and the “baggage” that a desi man carries?
Deep, very very deep.
Maybe the answer lies in basic physical attraction?
Occam’s razor “entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem”
Desi men who get divorced are also unhappy and alone. There’s a school of men out there who persistently think of women as basically unmoored without a man, adrift and perhaps sinking. In fact, study after study shows that it’s men who suffer most from not having a woman in their lives (mentally and health-wise). Single women, for some unfathomable reason, come out on top, enjoying better mental and physical health than married ones.
Dharma Queen:
All that is true…I’m just talking anecdotally from several cases (close friends) that I have seen. And yes, I am biased towards my (guy) friends’ points of view. Usually for guys, getting married a 2nd time isn’t so tough… but a lot of these divorced women have close to zero chance with another Indian guy from a decent family… and my main point was, that (in the particular situations I’m talking about) although the women were so unhappy in their marriages, and couldn’t compromise in order to make things work, their lives post-divorce are even worse…utter loneliness, and the prospect of children/marriage very bleak. Some are having affairs with co-workers, some haven’t even managed that. One friend’s ex-wife just couldn’t get over him, and I wonder to this day why she didn’t just try to make her marriage work…even if that meant compromising as far as his parents were concerned. Now of course if a woman has a very strong sense of self, and does need to be with a guy in order to feel fulfilled, etc. then I guess it’s better for them to leave an unhappy marriage and be alone…but at least be happy after that! Which from what I’ve seen is rare. I’m sure other people have their own anecdotes which can contradict what I’m saying.
UMM, how many erudit FOBs can pull that accent off without coming off as condescending? I have routinely been accused of being a classist capitalistic pig whose head must roll in the new revolution. All this, because I have a thing for antiestablishmentarian types.
Amitabh,
Don’t have all that much experience of desi-desi relationships breaking up, so you may be right about these paradigms. However, the one desi-desi breakup I witnessed up close was that of my parents, and my Dad couldn’t get over it (though he would have died rather than admit it), while my mom got over it and had a few flings into the bargain (admittedly with non-desis). She did date one Ismaili guy, though, who had absolutely no problem with her being divorced. So I dunno…
I think desi women who are open to non-desi men can move on quite easily. Of course, we are talking about desi women who don’t care too much about social stigma etc.
The first person who reaches for the “woman needs a man” quote gets a serious ass-kicking, ok?
I think women are basically the greatest ambassadors for race relations ever. Men may hate on other men’s color, but they love other colors of women! Not that this is relevant to anything, really.
Anyway, I’ve noticed far more social stigma attached to being divorced with the “younger” generation (20- and 30-somethings) than with desis of my parents’ generation. Maybe because they’re just more familiar (and sympathetic) with marital strife, I dunno…but I know a few people my own age who are divorced and try and hide the fact in their dating lives (usually with disastrous results).
Oy Vey Desidawg, you don’t have to bring in marriage into the picture. I should have said parents instead of ‘inlaws.’ My mistake again. I do think there’s a negative stereotype. Think about it, how many gori women would be comfortable about thinking of dating a man, whom they perceive, is sexist/controlling (and is a mommy’s boy). This is somewhat similar to the stereotype that guards these women against being attracted to middle eastern men (in my opinion some are the most gorgeous men in the world!). They are afraid of the negative stereotype that middle eastern men are controlling and sexist.
Amitabh, “but a lot of these divorced women have close to zero chance with another Indian guy from a decent family… and my main point was, that (in the particular situations I’m talking about) although the women were so unhappy in their marriages, and couldn’t compromise in order to make things work, their lives post-divorce are even worse…utter loneliness, and the prospect of children/marriage very bleak.”
Amitabh, perhaps you should consider that many desi women don’t consider ‘marrying a desi man from a decent family and then breeding offspring’ to be the highlights of life. Compromise is the key here–both men and women have to compromise. And sometimes, even when people try to compromise the best they can, it just doesn’t work out. It’s very condescending to think everything’s the woman’s fault. Very 1970s hindi movie attitude: ladki boj hoti hain, a woman’s husband is like her god etc. Even my very traditional and old grandmother agrees that that attitude’s idiotic.
Aditi,
Strongly agree.
Btw, part of the reason some ABD women avoid FOBs is the assumption (sometimes completely wrong) that a FOB will impose on them these ideas about women’s lives being chiefly about marrying, compromising and breeding.
DQ: Yes, the assumption is sometimes completely wrong.
Many of the so-called FOBs these days have had in fact much more freedom (growing up) than their counterpart ABDs.
Some things that are considered commonplace in India are unheard of in the US. Kids in 5th grade (in India) cycle their way to school..kids in 8th grade (both boys and girls) drive bikes/scooters etc to school. Parents are not over protective of their kids..and usually give them a lot of space while growing up.
A lot has to do with the fact that most(?) desi parents in US are still stuck in the 1970’s definition of being a “good desi kid” while the parents in India have moved on.
Brown Fob,
Yeah I can see that. My eyes were opened recently when I met a FOB chick, born and raised in Mumbai, who is far wilder than I was at her age (early twenties) – she has tattoos and piercings and writes articles in a local rag about not shagging her (non-desi) bf because she’s too absorbed in the book she’s reviewing for the rag.
Actually, my mom is a FOB chick who’s a lot wilder than me, come to think of it.
DQ: Interesting.
Being “wild” was not what I meant. The so-called FOBs are not stuck in age old mentality when it comes to relationships, marriage, sex etc. They might or might not be “wild” … but one thing that is true is that they have moved with the times.
Many of the so-called FOBs these days have had in fact much more freedom (growing up) than their counterpart ABDs.
I also happen to agree with DQ and think our parents are pretty “wild.” Many fob women and men in their 40s have held on to marriage out of inertia, and then one day they have an epiphany: I’m here, nothing is stopping me from leaving and having some fun for a change. so they have relationships and occasionally remarry – usually, in my experience, with other divorced desis! They feel especially free when the kids have left the house.
Jamaican accent as well as some Latino accents are also considered sexy.
Indian Americans are disproportinately Nerds. Nerds are not sexy. This why Asian accents in general are not considered sexy. Also applies to nerdish Europeans like Germans or Russians.
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blockquote> I’m a bit worried though about ‘gender equality’ among desis. A family friend who lives in the US wrote a shite book called ‘Impressing The Whites’ that had one important point in it…Asian women are often given a niche of acceptance as Exotic Hotties. And I’ve found that there is a belief (similar to Arab/Persian people) that desi girls are much hotter than the guys in general. I’m not saying there’s no Jon Abrahams out there, I’m just saying that people seem to think there’s more Preity Zintas.
Interracial marriage rates are almost the same (the figure for Indian guys is marginally higher than women). I reckon desis don’t have much of a gender disparity in terms of looks, we are equally ugly or sexy depending on how you look at it.
East Asians and Blacks seem to have issues with this though.
Some things that are considered commonplace in India are unheard of in the US. Kids in 5th grade (in India) cycle their way to school..kids in 8th grade (both boys and girls) drive bikes/scooters etc to school.
Since when did they start calling “classes” in India “grades”? There seems to be an obsession in FOBs to convert everything to its American equivalent. People on here will understand what you’re talking about even if you stick to the desi terms.
Risible,
Your Dad’s not single, is he? If he is, maybe we can ‘arrange’ something. Right here on SM. (Of course, we’ll have to let them meet first. I don’t believe in the old ways, just seeing some photos and then poof! you’re married. I’ve moved with the times.)
DesiDawg:
Last I heard, they still called it “5th class” and not “5th grade” in India. The reason why I wrote “grade” was to avoid unnecessary confusion (as most of the readers here are americans). Infact I first wrote “class” …but then the sentence “Kids in 5th class cycle their way to school..kids in 8th class drive bikes/scooters etc” sounded a little confusing (class = strata).
FOBs don’t have an obsession to “convert everything to its American equivalent”. Its just that they try to avoid unnecessary confusion. Small things like “class” vs. “grade” , “passed out” vs. “graduated” don’t matter a whole lot. Its the big issues (pronouncing one’s name) which are more sensitive.
DesiDawg:
Yes some might…but some won’t. Its always better to avoid unnecessary confusion. If I start using “proper desi terms”, then I’ll have to explain a lot of things.
DesiDawg:
WTF?
Dharma Queen:
Just to clarify, I’m not a fob..raised in NY/NJ area since I was 3. Although I enjoy debating with you and respect your point of view (if you remember during one of our previous debates you mentioned a beautiful Bengali line about a gypsy having forgotten her homeland, I still remember that one), some of your approving comments above regarding your mom’s flings and how cool you find ‘wildness’ in a person, show me that we are poles apart in some very fundamental ways and probably approach things from very different perspectives. Anyway, I do agree with the following that you said
It’s the women who want/need an Indian husband (ABD or not) for whatever reason who can get messed up in the event of a divorce; and given the large number of single Indian women who badly want to get married to an Indian (maybe only for their parents’ sake), yet could have married a non-desi years ago, I think this is a major factor in many people’s lives.
Sigh Perhaps you should analyze the problem from a different point of view Amitabh. People feel unfulfilled if they do not do what makes them happy (of makes them feel like they are a worthwhile human being). Doing everything to make their parents happy without thinking about themselves at all, is perhaps, the main reason why a lot of desi men and women are depressed.
I know of quite a few Indian marriages where the primary reason why the marriage did not land up in divorce was because the woman kept compromising. Quite a few of them compromised to the point of loosing their own sense of self. I think that no matter what race of partner you would like to have, you need to foster a sense of self within yourself (male or female) in order for a marriage to be fulfilling for both parties.
I’ve noticed that there is a tendency among Indians to lay the burden of a successful marriage on the woman. A lot of times if a woman leaves the marriage and goes back to her house, she is told that she has to go back to her husband and make the best of it. The Indian society itself tends to attach a lot stigma to divorce and I think it still exists. There is this attitude that a woman cannot make it alone in life. My own mother always tells me that my life begins when I get married. It is an absolutely ridiculous attitude to have. I know of a woman who was married off to a guy in India, after a year of marriage (and a child later) the husband demanded that her father sign off all family wealth in his name. When the father refused, the husband divorced teh woman. Now the daughter is a highly educated, intelligent woman. Instead of giving his daughter the emotional support needed to ensure that she survives and moves on with her life, he decided to go on a hunt to find another husband for her. This kind of attitude brings down the value of an individual.
I think there needs to be a slight shift in attitude from ‘compromising and suffering for the sake of family’ to ‘trying your best and then realising that there is nothign than can be done and to cut your losses’. A shift from focusing solely on family to focusing on family WITHOUT loosing one’s self of individuality as well. Finding a balance between the two is the key in mind.
I’ve noticed that there is a tendency among Indians to lay the burden of a successful marriage on the woman. A lot of times if a woman leaves the marriage and goes back to her house, she is told that she has to go back to her husband and make the best of it. The Indian society itself tends to attach a lot stigma to divorce and I think it still exists. There is this attitude that a woman cannot make it alone in life.
Priya, some of the things you mention simply do not happen in today’s India-at least among the educated. 20 years ago yes maybe. I doubt you are talking about people from the talukas here.
I know of a woman who was married off to a guy in India, after a year of marriage (and a child later) the husband demanded that her father sign off all family wealth in his name. When the father refused, the husband divorced teh woman.
I put very little credence on hearsay. You only report the woman’s point of view here. The man would have a totally different take on why the marriage collapsed. As Confucius said “In the middle lies the truth”.
Agree with you Vinod. One small blabber for Aish. One giant leap for our kind. Wish it was a better commercial, though.
My two cents on the desi-desi breakup. First of all, it is still rare guys…and gals. Secondly, the woman does reorient herself after the breakup much faster than the man. It has nothing to do with being desi. Women have that ability. Read Shakespeare. Man dreams, hallucinates, harbors weird emotions that cause nothing but tragedy. Woman steps in, sorts things out, even if she has to assist him in a little murder, and sometimes she can save him, sometimes not.
DQ: No not my dad, he is still keeping my mom happy 🙂 I was thinking of an uncle actually who I wouldn’t reccommend. Let me ask around though, I have lots of family in Canada.
My two cents on the desi-desi breakup. First of all, it is still rare guys…and gals.
Its rising. My parents are from the “greatest generation,” the one that came in the 60s, before there were little indias to walk into and bollywood movies available on demand 🙂 and among them very many women in particular have said ‘i’ve spent a life being a good indian wife and mother, ive done my duty, its time to move on, to find out with romance is really like, what making love for real is like,’ etc.
you can see from amitabh’s comments that even for a two gen the bias in marriage is strongly in favor of males (patriarchy) so i feel sorry for unhappy ladies who know only people within the ghetto of their extended family or subculture (like Punjabis or Tamils). it helps to make friends widely, among other desi communities, and among americans too, so that if you decide to leave you will have support, because most women within your ghetto will be too chicken to think that way 🙂
And some of the happiest marriages ive seen are second time older desi go-arounds, the happiness, the love, the relief, is palpable.
Risible – joke about the arrangement, man – my mom would kill me!
Amitabh – I respect you too, as you always treat your fellow commenters with kindness and consideration. I do think, however, that you have some very conservative ideas. What’s not to approve, for example, when a middle-aged desi divorcee, like my mom, decides not to give up on happiness and life but to give dating a try? Frankly, for me her courage and spirit are breathtaking, given all of the disapproval and psychological baggage she has had to overcome. She was miserable in her arranged marriage with my father, and I strongly approve her, yes, in her belief that there is someone out there for her, and her active efforts to find this person. I do not understand why this would not be approved by someone as evidently kindhearted as you. Is she supposed to commit some sort of emotional sati, and burn in silence for the rest of her life?
Priya – Agreed. I’ve seen this attitude directed at women in my own family, which is highly educated and not from the boondocks (the particular branch I am thinking of is located in Mumbai).
“Priya, some of the things you mention simply do not happen in today’s India-at least among the educated. 20 years ago yes maybe. I doubt you are talking about people from the talukas here.”
My experiences are limited to the first generations Indians (outside of India) that I have come into contact with. And I can definitely tell you that those ideas still exist among their parents, and they are pretty strong. I do believe that the level of influence these attitudes have on the children has somewhat been reduced because the next generation concentrates a bit more on individuality, rather than doing somethign for the sake of pleasing their parents and keeping the peace.
As for the situation I spoke about, well I know the family very well and I know both sides of the story, I’m not in the habit of indulging in heresay myself 🙂