American Babel

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Back in the day, I had an Italian co-worker who had the oh-so-Italian name “Enzo” coupled with the deadly, oh-so-Italian accent. The amazing thing about Enzo was that it didn’t matter one bit what was actually coming out of his mouth – the ladies in the office always had the same swooning reaction, “oh Enzo, say ‘operating system’ again. It sounds so sexy.”

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p>Blech.

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p>Despite having a pretty American accent myself (with an occasional touch of TX), I knew enough about how the world worked to know that one day, just once, I’d love to hear women swoon at the Indian accent. And on that day, my proverbial ship would finally come in and perhaps a few perceived ethnic slights would be righted. But, as Russell Peters once quipped, the primary thing the Indian accent is good for is cutting the tension.“The primary thing the Indian accent is good for is cutting the tension.”

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p>The lesson? Enzo’s Italian accent evoked the exotic beauty, power and grace of a Ferrari the same way DesiTalk brought forth the rugged manliness of Apu.

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p>So, the following commercial didn’t really move my meter much. TV Junkie that I am, I’ve usually got the boob tube on in the background while working. And, as a result, I probably get more than my fair share of 30second pop culture. So like many of you, I’ve come across a series of TV commercials for L’Oreal Cosmetics starring none other than our own Aishwarya Rai…

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p>Exhibit A – an Aishwarya commercial for L’Oreal cosmetics uploaded to Youtube some 6 months ago and thus probably close to a year old. Listen carefully as she, dealing with the intractible tragicomedy that is life, asks if you too “Feel Like Your Dark Hair is Too Dark?” –

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p>Clearly a voiceover. And a bad one at that. And, for now at least, I’ll direct our ethno-authenticity hounds away from the “solve life’s problems / lighten your hairSolve life’s problems / lighten your hair” message.

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p>Still, there’s an important lesson to be gleamed — Aish’s Color / Clarity / Contrast / Symmetry highlighted by blue eyes might be good enough for America’s brunette, aspiring suburban diva’s. BUT, producers feared her accent would detract from the overall motif. Perhaps her voice was seen as an unanticipated touch of Apu where the audience was expecting Enzo. Oh well.

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p>But waiddaminut. Let us observe social evolution before our eyes in less than 12 months. The latest series of L’Oreal commercials has begun to air with a decidedly different tone –

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p>From the innocently posed inquiry “ready to transform your lashes?” to the bold call to action “dare to be daring” we hear Aishwarya and her [uptown / gentrified] desi accent in its raw, full, transformative glory. You, the tired, huddled, housewives of Des Moines with 2.1 kids could be her. In your aspirational dreams. With just the right mascara. Sort of.

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p>Nevertheless, for a moment, let us recognize that while the political wheels of social equality get tripped up by Macaca-gate and whatnot, Madison Avenue appears to be delivering a certain type of progress. However, it’s a front many activists prefer to ignore, others consider inherently antithetical to progress, and some, arguably, wish would go away altogether — the mass market. Middle America’s dreams & aspirations. Wal-Mart’s feminine beauty aisle.

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p>And what shall we call this strange domain? How about The Real World.

An interesting tactical debate for Afro-American observors has been the degree to

There goes the neighborhood.

which pop culture & the mass market (Michael Jordan, Queen Latifah, Oprah, Tyra Banks, etc.) lead the way towards true social acceptance vs. old skool activism (Al Sharpton, Louis Farrakhan, Cornel West, Jesse Jackson, etc.). Equality before the law ain’t the same as camaraderie with the neighbors. And beyond a certain point, the latter is both more gratifying and the ultimate goal. After Apu’s allowed to get a biz license, the next step is for him to be invited to the neighborhood BBQ & he then morphs into something more like Kumar. The catch is that while the prior goal might be secured via the vinegar of brazen, in-your-face tactics, the latter is gained by producing honey – something that other folks want from you.

Gay advocates similarly debate the delta between Will&Grace and QueerEye vs. QueerNation and their contribution towards the ongoing sea change in Gay acceptance over the past decade… For African-Americans, Gays, and other historically marginalized groups, both prongs have certainly contributed, but there are important lessons that emerge from trying to tease apart which was and is more effective today and moving forward. Important political lessons.

My opinion should be pretty obvious. But, back to more pressing matters. Legions of desi’s should brace themselves for the moment when The Accent is finally sexy — and that matters to my Real World. While Aishwarya’s undubbed voice might serve as a small step for commercial America, it’s a giant leap for DesiKind.

138 thoughts on “American Babel”

  1. Not to disparage the quest for true love, I am reminded of a scene from Fiddler on the Roof. The old farmer is confused when he finds out that one of his daughters is, you guessed it, in love. Wondering what this thing called love is, he very meekly asks his wife if she loves him. To which his wife replies, “For all these years, I have cooked for him, cleaned for him, bore him children… and he still asks me if I love him.”

    This scene from Fiddler epitomizes the concept of marriage among the first-geners, of which I am a card carrying member. Aside from some really bad and brutal situations from which the victim, whether the woman or the man, must escape because it is definitely not love, I don’t know if love is anything more – or less – than what the poor Russian peasant said in that song from Fiddler.

    But don’t take my word for it. My only expertise on the subject of love comes from a happy marriage that is now going on 34 years to a woman who can cook, clean and fire one of our managers at our company with equal ease. No docile Indian woman here.

  2. “I put very little credence on hearsay. You only report the woman’s point of view here. The man would have a totally different take on why the marriage collapsed. As Confucius said “In the middle lies the truth”.”

    The situation I brought up was not intended to discuss the reasons for the break up of the marriage, but rather the attitude of the lady’s parents. My point is that the parents (who by the way are highly educated) should provide the support the woman needs to be able to survive on her own. If she finds a life partner along the way, then good and well. But the focus was on getting her married off ASAP after the divorce came through. Marriages break up for many different reasons, and when this happens both parties are goign to have to deal with trauma that comes with such a difficult situation. People need time to work through it and to finally move on when they are ready to do so. Indian society tends to have this idea that women cannot survive on their own, and that a woman needs a husband to be able to survive. That idea is still very much prevalent, even among highly educated people.

  3. Because of the stigma attached to divorce, not to mention economic difficulties, and trouble among family members, most desi women – especially IBDs (FOB’s a horrible term, really) – do not get out unless the situation has been brutal and unbearable.

  4. Dharma Queen,

    I’m fairly new to the site, so I am not familiar with all the abbreviations used….what does IBD and FOB stand for? 🙂

  7. Floridian, even the Russian dude could tell that there was something strange and wonderful in what his daughter felt that he missed out on. Hence his grudging approval of the match. Sounds like you were lucky enough to find the same thing, someone whose spirit you admire – not just someone who cooks, cleans and bears your children.

  8. Thanks, Dharma Queen. And we had what IBD’s call a love marriage, because there is the other kind, you know.

    Having seen so much of both kinds, I don’t particularly consider love as a superior prenuptial proposition. It is possible to start without love, just an intent, and then grow love through a shared life as billions of Indians have demonstrated over the centuries.

  9. I’m kind of tired of the atimes casual denegrating of desi-american men, if nothing else, when it occurs on SM. I haven’t heard it too much in real life for a while. But, such ideas as that indian-american men are more sexist and thus women know this and stay away are annoying. And I don’t think true. Indian-american men are socialized to be american and indian in different combinations, and its up the person what they choose. and that says nothing about the idea that american and indian society both have problematic views, as well as positive. And the idea desi men’s features are not as attractive to women as those of other ethnicities, where do you get that?

  10. Dharma Queen:

    Thanks for your nice words. When I said:

    some of your comments…show me that we are poles apart in some very fundamental ways and probably approach things from very different perspectives

    .

    It was 4:30 in the morning, I had just come home semi-drunk after a night out (yes like a dork I checked SM before crashing off to sleep) and that was probably the best I could do at that time. I have to say that you in particular do often make me stop and question my own views; it’s hard to completely disagree with you when you explain yourself so well. I’m more conservative than you seem to be, but I do see your point about your mom finding happiness. In truth my conservatism might border on hypocrisy at times…but I’m sure that applies to most of us when it comes to our cherished notions. I don’t view these debates as battles to try to win supremacy for my particular opinion; I just throw my opinion out there, try to defend it if it comes under challenge, and try to keep an open mind. I do think we have something special in the Indian culture, and I would hope we would hold on to the good things in our culture.

    Priya and Aditi, you guys made some good points too.

  11. FOBs don’t have an obsession to “convert everything to its American equivalent”. Its just that they try to avoid unnecessary confusion. Small things like “class” vs. “grade” , “passed out” vs. “graduated” don’t matter a whole lot.

    brown_fob:

    Yeah, I can completely understand that. I mean, for this ABC Macaca, “passed out” has a whole other meaning to it, and it’s not even kind of like “graduating.”

    Priya:

    Marriages break up for many different reasons, and when this happens both parties are goign to have to deal with trauma that comes with such a difficult situation. People need time to work through it and to finally move on when they are ready to do so. Indian society tends to have this idea that women cannot survive on their own, and that a woman needs a husband to be able to survive. That idea is still very much prevalent, even among highly educated people.

    That attitude you described with the unfortunate lady’s parents is still very prevalent, I’d agree. sigh I wish I could claim otherwise. I feel like sometimes desis do not get the idea of emotional trauma, whether it be from abuse, neglect, obsession, adultery, or any number of other painful experiences a person can go through. And even the younger generation(s) seem to inherit some of that same difficulty in recognizing how important it is that after a bad experience, a body sometimes just needs to take a little time and…rest.

    My own parents came to this discovery late in the game, but they get it now. It took a failed engagement on my part, followed by an arranged marriage followed by a dis-arranged divorce…but they got it.

    Maybe it’s a Punjabi thing, though. We only learn by blunt force trauma to the head. 😀

  12. Salil wrote:

    I mean, for this ABC Macaca, “passed out” has a whole other meaning to it, and it’s not even kind of like “graduating.”

    Well..when you think of it, “passing out” is like “graduating” to a new state of mind 🙂

  13. I feel I should offer some encouragement to all you Desi guys out there. I’m a gori girl and I would totally go for an Indian guy in a second! I really do think that there are a lot of other caucasian women out there like me too, BUT I have NEVER been approached by an Indian man. I’ve been approached by almost every other ethnicity by the way and I have lived in California my entire life and I regulalry go to the Indian movie theatre near me so it is not like I am living in some North Dakota white bread bubble. (No offence to North Dakotans or white bread lovers) I really do think that Indian boys are shy of white women, believing a priori that white women will not want either a foreigner or a dark-skinned man. Hello! My girlfriends and I regularly bemoan the shy Desi guy phenomenon, and we assume that you don’t want US! Seriously, next time I smile at you on BART, come sit next to me. All you have to say is “Jolly Rancher”. And I love your accent.

  14. Gorigori, your intentions are sincerely appreciated. however, how did it come to this? Weirdly, SepiaMutiny is starting to bum me out on this topic because I didn’t realize we were in need of being boosted up like this. I don’t think Desi dudes need this kind of reassurance

  15. There’s bunch of Bombay/Delhi fobs who always doing damage in NYC niteclubs. I curse my American accents when I see these dudes macking on everyhting that moves. I think it’s that aggressive street culture of Deshland that made them so naturals. So there many differennt Indian accents. The non-Apu Brit hinglish accent is very appealing…I’m come to be charmed by Indian women too. It’s a turn-on when I get to talking to hot desi chick and she’s really really desi FROM BOMBAY. That’s hot.

    I got no love for nondesi women that actively go desi…The non-desi women I ended going with just were attracted to me…naturally..on the streetccorner at a bar at my collge class at the quad

  17. Don’t shoot the messenger:

    “I’ve never seen black men with fine white women. They be ugly. Mugly, dogs. And you always see white men with good-looking black women.” -Spike Lee, Playboy Interview – July 1991

  18. “I’ve never seen black men with fine white women. They be ugly. Mugly, dogs. And you always see white men with good-looking black women.”

    That is completely false…I’ve seen tons of gorgeous white women with black guys in NYC.

  20. I really do think that Indian boys are shy of white women, believing a priori that white women will not want either a foreigner or a dark-skinned man. Hello! My girlfriends and I regularly bemoan the shy Desi guy phenomenon, and we assume that you don’t want US! Seriously, next time I smile at you on BART, come sit next to me. All you have to say is “Jolly Rancher”. And I love your accent.

    First, it’s not necessarily the case that “Indian boys” (more appropriately, South Asian men) are shy of white women because they fear being rejected by them. I know what the Indian movie theatre scene in CA looks like. You’re probably referring to the awkward fools that drop hints of liking you but never go for it because they can’t stand up to it. These guys are neither unique to the desi community nor are they worth a good woman’s time. For any man of color who is worth getting involved with, there will be a lot more to consider than just your (white) acceptance in deciding whether or not he wants to get involved with a white woman (or a white man, as race politics are the same even in queer relationships).

    Second, I agree with Sahej about the attitude some people here have about desi masculinity. The legacy of colonialism on this subject has to do with the white emasculation/feminization of the brown man. But that’s not supposed to be our mentality, so why is this an issue amongst ourselves? Why should brown men need validation from anyone? (or brown women, for that matter) I went to the LA meet-up and there were lots of desi guys there. They all seemed to have a pretty masterful command of their own sexuality, and guys like that are not impressed by women who patronize them about their oh-so-quaint-used-to-be-unsexy accents, or anything likewise shallow.

  21. They all seemed to have a pretty masterful command of their own sexuality,…

    Woah. I think you guys DID have the most fun table at The Pantry after all. Next time I am sitting with you 😉

  23. Woah. I think you guys DID have the most fun table at The Pantry after all. Next time I am sitting with you 😉

    HAHAha Abhi… I knew someone was going to call me out on that one 🙂

    Let me clarify: Since I was talking about the recent comments about desi masculinity within on SM, I thought I should reference a real-life experience with SM men (the meet-up). I meant “masterful” in the sense that the desi men at the meet-up “handled their own shit” without provoking any questions about their masculinity. The sexuality and masculinity of desi men never came up as the kind of conspicuous issue that gorigori and others have made it out to be.

    As for at the Pantry, there was unfortunately no talk of anything remotely sexual at our table. Maybe it’s something for the next meet-up, in which case you would indeed be better off with us 😉

  24. As for at the Pantry, there was unfortunately no talk of anything remotely sexual at our table.

    What do you mean? That food was totally orgasmic! Everyone was busy chomping down into the grease infused entrees, provided by the resident culinary experts, only a fine dining establishment like The Pantry could provide.

  26. For the non-Hindi speakers: I was just telling Shruti not to mess it up for me with gorigori the way she did with Pardesi Gori…

  27. Shruti, are you including me in the group of those who’ve raised doubts about desi male sexuality? If so, I’d like to defend myself. I raised the issue of repeated remarks on this site by desi male commenters about how they are not perceived as sexy, how they are persistently portrayed as nerds, how they are not seen as particularly masculine etc. It is my impression, accumulated over several months, that a contingent, at least, of desi men feel this way. However, I did not make negative comments about desi male sexuality – in fact, the whole phenomenon of desi men feeling that they are not portrayed as sexy was odd to me – perhaps, partly, because I’m tuned out of pop culture.

    Btw, I get the distinct sense that gorigori is a troll. Sorry, Amitabh.

  29. It is my impression, accumulated over several months, that a contingent, at least, of desi men feel this way.

    they’re called p**sies. they exist in every ethnic group. it is an inverse of the old adage, you are what you eat….

  30. gorigori –

    please. you’re obviously not looking hard enough.

    me on the other hand, well, i would love to paw you with my fat, filthy, ring-adorned lala-claws. where did you say you live again?

  31. AC,

    Trust me, gorigori is some grinning bespectacled hairy-pawed male having fun with all of us. Do you really want to encourage him?

    HMF, I love nerds, specially when they ooze nerd chic and NSA (nerd sex appeal) like the babe lighting up the SM home page right now.

  33. Regarding “masculinity”, is there any connection between various ethnicities and testosterone levels?

    Have any studies been done on that? I remember googling for that like a year or two ago and came up with nothing.

    Razib?

    I have read that testosterone levels increase with increased meat-eating and physical activities like weight-lifting, resistance training.

    This might have something to do with the stereotypes noted above.

  34. Amitabh –

    Regarding your following comments;

    “It was 4:30 in the morning, I had just come home semi-drunk after a night out (yes like a dork I checked SM before crashing off to sleep) and that was probably the best I could do at that time. I have to say that you in particular do often make me stop and question my own views; it’s hard to completely disagree with you when you explain yourself so well. I’m more conservative than you seem to be, but I do see your point about your mom finding happiness. In truth my conservatism might border on hypocrisy at times…but I’m sure that applies to most of us when it comes to our cherished notions. I don’t view these debates as battles to try to win supremacy for my particular opinion; I just throw my opinion out there, try to defend it if it comes under challenge, and try to keep an open mind. I do think we have something special in the Indian culture, and I would hope we would hold on to the good things in our culture.”

    …………….

    I’m just curious, what is that “special something” and the “good things” in India culture that you would hope to hold on to in regards to women?

    I’m asking this after reading the comments between Dharma Queen and yourself.

  35. I have i question to ask how come an italian accent (..any italian) sound sexy to any one!!!??

    …..Typically the audience use to follow the reports, news they heard or read thru media

  36. Its not the accent rather its that the relationship with the native place we have. We tend to speak as per demand of the environment… the accent can not be percfectionalised untill the person is pron to that particular environment cuz we human are very fst learner…

  37. “well there are different types of indian english accents, as there are american english and british english accents. some are considered more appealing than others. i’m not sure middle america will ever fully accept the apu-type indian accent, the same way that many americans with strong southern accents or other strong regional accents, or australians with really strong aussie accents or brits with non-bbc accents are forced to or choose to change their accents to generic american accents. the same way that many foreigners singing in english choose the generic american pop english accent instead of their own nation’s version of english. ” Oh my God! This is the stupidest statement I have ever heard in my life. Nobody in the world (besides uSA) want to or has to switch to an American Accent. (It’s called Gereral American accent not generis , by the way). Those forigners that you believ they have an GA accent , actually they don’t, but when they sing, you can’t hear their native accent. The only people who are worried about accents and don’t accept foreign accents are Americans. No where in the world you’ll find something similar.In Europe nobody acres about accents.Do you believe they would say about a French guy that she has an accent? No… Why is that you compair everything to US made?

  38. Its not the accent rather its that the relationship with the native place we have. We tend to speak as per demand of the environment… the accent can not be percfectionalised untill the person is pron to that particular environment cuz we human are very fst learner…

    After decades of living in a place still one sometime does not lose their accent, more often than not.