Technophobic Geek recently overheard the following at his middle eastern drum circle:
Instructor: So I was playing the tablas at this very fancy and HUGE Indian wedding last weekend. It was really quite fascinating. I haven’t seen a wedding this big in a while.
Other guy: How many people?
Instructor: At least 400, maybe 500 people. It was a really traditional wedding. Not only in terms of the ceremony, but it was also an (with dramatic pause) arranged wedding.
Everyone else: (awestruck) Wow!
Instructor: In fact, it was so arranged that the bride did not smile at all through the entire wedding, not one time.
Other guy: Was she at least over 18, I mean, she wasn’t like 12 or something, right?
Instructor: No, not at all, she was in her early 20s, at least that’s what they said.
(Everyone heaves a palpable sigh of relief). (link)
Our technophobic friend says he was rendered speechless by this (“I had no idea where to even start bridging this cultural chasm…”), so let’s help him out. The first thing he could say is that it’s striking that arranged marriage is still such a stigmatized practice in the U.S. — especially amongst “laid back dudes” in one’s social circle. Come on guys, get over it: learn something about the culture of the people who invented the tabla you’ve learned to play.
Second, it’s not necessarily the case that it was an actual, no-prior-meeting, arranged marriage (actually pretty rare these days in the diaspora). Any help from websites and/or parents is often construed as “arranging” by people outside the loop, when in fact “assisting” might be a more accurate way to describe it.
As for why the bride wasn’t smiling: uncomfortable outfit? Awkward hair? Cultural expectation?
Then what the hell were they doing in a drum circle playing tablas? (I’m with deb in the drum circle hating.)
Shruti, I fai to see the connection between drum circles and having knowledge about arranged marraiges.
Drum circles are for drumming.
ah, our friend Pardesi Gori has returned in a new form with a new moniker. How long before we start hearing how terrible all Indian men are, which is why arranged marriage is necessary?
Gautam, for some men that may definetly be true. But I am not against arranged marraiges. I think they are a reasonable option.
In fact, I know several non-Indians who wish some sort of system like that was available as an option to them.
The problem is though, when one has high expectations, or too many expectations, dating on one’s own or meeting “suitable boys and girls” through family connections becomes a ferris wheel. You just keep going round and round and round hoping you will meet the perfect one until one day you realize you are old(er) and lonely and should have just “settled” for one of them.
This is common amongst both desis and par-desis in their say, mid to late thirties.
Isn’t this true of every culture? Isn’t that why Internet dating has exploded here? I fail to see how this is a uniquely Indian situation.
In every culture, people that are attractive or wealthy are the most prized as mates. Often, it is some type of exchange, as in a very attractive girl will marry a less attractive guy because he is wealthy, or vice versa. Everyone also likes to believe they are more desirable than they are. This isn’t restricted to arranged marriage; I know a lot of brown people in their 30s here that consider arranged marriage once they figure out that they aren’t going to meet Mr or Ms. Right and want someone that fits their definition of acceptable. or “suitable” if you will.
Gautam, I clarified above I was speaking of both desis and pardesis.
Jilted manhood, I don’t understand how the statement about communal showering displays something racist/ignorant about white southerners or ‘rednecks’ or whichever group. Can you explain?
Manju, there may be comments diplaying similar ignorance on this site, but in context of THIS discussion, I didn’t see any. Sure dumb comments abound across any human group, but this particular thread is about one particular specific interaction, and its existence doesn’t automatically mean desis here are propogating the ‘model minority myth’ or whatever. And I didn’t see signs of latent racism in this post. It was simply an ignorant person making totally preventable ignorant comments. C’mon!
HMF, I think you’re not responding to the simple question I posed. I’ll rephrase it here. I don’t have anything more to add.
Why do you think arranged marriages are simply an inferior way of getting married, in comparison to self-arranged ones?
Let me simplify, and repeat: There is no evidence that free-will marriages as seen in the usa (or anywhere else) for example, have a higher success rate than arranged marriages as seen in india (or anywhere else) for example. In addition, since free-will has a 50% chance of succeeding, it appears to me that its no better than flip of a coin, hence, it makes sense that other methods be in action, in effort to produce a better result. This is why I believe your viewpoint in dissing the arranged marriage concept is wrong.
Nowhere in this or elsewhere have I claimed to hold arranged marriages superior to other paths to marriage. But I do believe its not inferior to other ways of getting hitched.
One take on the no smiling….
If you read alot of Indian epics, folklore, etc, a common theme is “lajja bhushana stri”, shyness is the ornament of a woman. Many stories are built around this. I think this is why you will find a general sort of reservedness in some Indian women in public and it is considered by some Indians from various regions and cultural backgrounds to be “too bold” for a woman to smile, laugh, dance at her own wedding. At such weddings you will not find men and women dancing together but the women in one group, men in another. Not all weddings in India are like this by any means. However many are. It depends on the people, their cultural background, social conditionings,belief systems, etc. A good sanskrit word that sums up the above is “samskars” or psychological impressions gained over a lifetime.
It is not uncommon to find women in India who feel that to even initiate sexual contact with their husbands first is taboo. Again this ties into “lajja bhushana stri”.
The same things could be said for women across many cultures, but we are talking of an Indian wedding and therefore I remain India specific and am sharing with you what has come into my circle of experience only.
Jilted manhood, I don’t understand how the statement about communal showering displays something racist/ignorant about white southerners or ‘rednecks’ or whichever group. Can you explain?
I didn’t mean you were being contemptuous of Rednecks in particlular. But I did think you were hinting on the allegedly dissolute ways of White people in general. The more I read your comment I feel that’s not what you meant. If that’s so I am sorry.
“The problem is though, when one has high expectations, or too many expectations, dating on one’s own or meeting “suitable boys and girls” through family connections becomes a ferris wheel. You just keep going round and round and round hoping you will meet the perfect one until one day you realize you are old(er) and lonely and should have just “settled” for one of them.”
The more prevalent problem is, when one has too low expectations, or forgoes (or is barred from) determining what their expectataions are, and are forced into marrying someone, it becomes more like a tilt-a-whirl, without a seatbelt. Now the tilt-a-whirl might be more fun in the short term, but if I absolutely had to choose between one or another, I’d go with the ferris wheel.
To quote the videographer in a certain Gurinder Chadha film: “Eyes down, eyes down! You’ll spoil the bloody video.”
🙂
It is not uncommon to find women in India who feel that to even initiate sexual contact with their husbands first is taboo. Again this ties into “lajja bhushana stri”.
The youth in India can reclaim India’s true heritage by arousing a nationwide sexual awakening. Until then India won’t really be free.
Gas?
HMF – I see what you’re getting at. You might’ve seen what could be described as “passionless” marriages among Indian couples. Some of my Indian friends complain that this is the kind of marraiges they grew up witnesses between their parents. No holding hands or showing affection in front of the kids, etc. More or less a duty, yada, yada, yada…
This takes place worldwide. I guess there would be no way to gauge if arranged marriages have more of a chance of turning out like that as opposed to non-arranged.
Many people prefer to opt for arranged marriages, even after being through the dating scene and having the oppurtunity to choose for oneself.
Example; I have a very attractive and financially successfuly Indian male friend who had no problem attracting women. Yet, he really had no time to invest in dating and going from woman to woman to try to find someone suitable. So finally he just told his mom to go ahead and find some women and he would be willing to meet them. After meeting several and “not feelin it”, he finally was introduced to someone he “liked”. They dated a few times and communicated via phone, internet, etc, and finally married. That “like” grew into love after some time.
Funny, he still says he wish he would have married a non-Indian because he was looking forward to the excitement of a “cross-cultural” relationship. But he just did not have the time to invest in all that pre-marriage relationship building and possible heart-break. At his age and position he wanted to go for a sure thing.
Is his marriage “passionless”? I don’t know.
I think passion is a spontaneous thing in the beginning but something that may have to be worked on to keep burning years down the line. That’s what all these relationship books are about we see so much of these days.
Personally I think relationship courses should be given to kids in high schools everywhere as part of the carriculum.
you have a point. have you seen the laddooos they feed the bride..i go into cardiac arrest just seeing those monsters…
“HMF – I see what you’re getting at. You might’ve seen what could be described as “passionless” marriages among Indian couples. Some of my Indian friends complain that this is the kind of marraiges they grew up witnesses between their parents. No holding hands or showing affection in front of the kids, etc. More or less a duty, yada, yada, yada…”
It’s not about passion, it doesn’t bother me that my parents or their generation don’t go around calling each other honey and babes every 2 seconds, and hold hands in public or any of that nonsense
“Yet, he really had no time to invest in dating and going from woman to woman to try to find someone suitable. So finally he just told his mom to go ahead and find some women and he would be willing to meet them. “
This is a little different, he actually made the choice to turn back to the system, on his own timing. I would contend that if he were forced to use the system like many, he wouldn’t speak so highly of it. When I lambast the arranged marriage system, it’s the guilt, fear, and constant haranguing to do it by a certain time, that I abhor.
HMF – I hear ya!
I’m not even an Indian and I get that all the time in India. At first I took major offense at it (mostly for religious reasons), but now that I’m more chilled with time and age, I just joke around about it. But yeah, if it’s annoying to me and I’m not even a “spoke in the wheel”, so to speak, then I can imagine how fed up you and others would be with constant harangueing.
“It’s not about passion, it doesn’t bother me that my parents or their generation don’t go around calling each other honey and babes every 2 seconds, and hold hands in public or any of that nonsense”
LOL! That is sooo funny, baby, honey, cupcake! 😉
Isn’t it common to give pet-names or nick-names to loved ones? I don’t see what’s so funny about it. Unless you call them “Rinku” or something like that.
In some parts of India the husband gives an entirely new first name to the wife. From Shruti to Omkaraa, or Lalita to Arpita.
In the area of India where I reside, women generally do not call their husbands by their first names, there are folkloric reasons for that and it is tied in to “respect”. When they want to get their attention they say, “soon”… listen. Not “Suno Vikram”, or “Sweetheart suno”, but simply, “soon”.
“Baby” on the other hand is a common nickname for sisters. I had one Indian male friend who was like a brother to me and he was always calling me “baby”. I thought he was calling me “baby” the way my fiance does and I wrote him an email saying, “don’t call me baby”. He was like, “that’s an affectionate name for my younger sister, what’s the big deal”.
And then I noticed that amongst several Indian families in my area, there is always a “baby” in the family.
I don’t see what’s so funny or non-sensical about giving pet-names to people.
Sorry, dude/dudette. I may have inhaled some laughing gas, because when I read this:
“I don’t see what’s so funny about it.Unless you call them “Rinku” or something like that.”
I almost PEED my pants! “Rinku” – LOL! Keep it up – you’re cracking me up!
Rinku. Dinku. Chintu and Munnu. Yeah, we get a good laugh out of those too. How about “Pinky”?
Regarding Shruti’s expectations that every drum circle kid in America bangin on tablas know about the intricacies of Indian mating rituals… why? For what? will it help their drumming?
If I go to an Indian village and guys there wear polyester pants with belts and button down shirts with ties instead of dhoti/kurta, should I expect them to know about any Western mating rituals in detail? How about if they play the trombone or recite Wordsworth (pretty popular in India). ?
I just don’t see a connection.
And yes, arranged marriages are a weird concept for people who have not grown up in a culture where they are the norm. Just like having boyfriends/girlfriends is a weird concept for many people who grow up in cultures where there is no dating.
The best thing is to not take offense at innocent comments that arise due to ignorance and lack of exposure to said culture, but rather, take it as an oppurtunity to SHARE in a FRIENDLY way, your own personal experience of arranged marriages, keeping in mind that those would be your own personal experiences and that other forms of arranged marraiges do take place wherein the bride and groom are very very young and there is no choice and hence, the innocent comments made in ignorance by above drummers are not entirely off for a whole lot of people in India. Even if those people are not in your family and social circles.
Something tells me that Beige Sage you have chosen the grimmest nook of India as your home.
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
i pulled the plug after years of serial dating both on and offline — bars, clubs, craigslist, NETIP, Wendy’s, the mall, match dot who? shaadi dot what? — ultimately getting hitched to a
little hellraiser – just kidding honeylovely lady after having only met just once — over the course of lunch at her (and her parent’s) home in Punjab.for someone who used to live in manhattan and fork over $100 to the gayest man alive aka my “stylist”, so they could groom my coiffure of three dangling whiskers that mercifully grace my scalp into an arrangement i was convinced would get me laid, i thought it would be a cold day in hell before i march down dowery lane and sign up for an arranged marriage and ultimately get wed in
3000 BC earthRajasthan (and Punjab).sure, there was tremendous pressure embellished with off-the-shelf dramas, like …
mother: arre beta, main budi hogi. maybe once i rest in GRAVE, God will answer prayer and then maybe you will get the married sniff sniff me: God is a satanic bisexual who eats beef. didn’t you hear? father: beta, main tumko kaisa samjao? DAHRR-LEENG, please talk to your son. me: you people are all crazy. this is an aslyum, not a home. mother: tameez se baat kar! … but push came to shove and what i once thought was an insatiable appetite for dating women who list Kiehl’s Lip Balm as one of the five things they can’t live without, had finally weakened into semi-disinterested afterthoughts. oh…and i eventually BRAINWASHED myself into believing that things like love and falling in and out of it, as well as relationships and dating and the sparks that fly when you’re having a “bonding” moment with that cute brunette discussing thread counts and who you just mentally undressed, and, interestingly, looks GREAT even though you can’t really tell because she just buried your face in her tits and now you’ve got a silly shit-eating grin on your face and people can’t figure out what the hell is wrong with you, is all just CIRCUMSTANTIAL.
it took one part balls, two parts idiocy and a dash of faith to look at my, who was, at that time, soon-to-be wife, and tell myself, confounded with the mangled hindsight that i was about to
resign all notions of “dating” and “just do it” (minus the fun and coolness and catchiness of the Nike brand), that she is now and will forever be “the one”.
and besides, i will NOT repeat another million-mile long barat that started just outside of Udaipur, finally commencing in Chandigarh. it wasn’t exactly the Ritz-Carlton and i didn’t QUITE get propped up onto a white stallion (it was more of the mule-ish/donkey variety that, i was told, was FIT FOR A KING, LIKE ME) but everyone had way too much fun and that’s all that (ever) matters.
Photo: Totolal, we’re no longer in Kansas.
and although hurtful things are sometimes said …
her: I WAS SOLD A BAD BILL OF GOODS. you never told me you blah blah and blah! me: THEN RETURN ME her: i SHOULD! me: you are a GREENCARD HO. you won’t do shit! her: don’t threaten me! i’ll pick up this phone right NOW and tell my mother that i’m through with you! me: your DEAR MOTHER is at the temple right now praying that my man-seed yield her three grandsons. she has no time for your bakwaas. her: i’m so stupid. i can’t believe i got married to you! me: i know. arranged marriages SUCK. they’re horrid! if it wasn’t for that sumptuous bum you rock, you would be more or less useless to me.
[[[filthy arranged marriage sex ensues]]]
the kicker is that we get along fabulously and laugh hysterically and makes knocks about how moronic arranged marriages are indeed and how we swear we’ll never allow our children into one while throwing back bujia over hot cups of chai and getting crazy with mom. seriously, being pussy-whipped never felt so good. (you can go throw up now) but part of me chides myself for being foolish enough to take as big a risk as i did, but then again, i have a horrible gambling itch.
and my parents? lord, you’d think they were medicated or doping behind my back. they also have a NASTY case of the “I told you so’s”.
father: ha! ha! oh, beta. i’m so glad you came for dinner! me: I LIVE HERE father: ha ha! oh yes yes! how was work? me: o.k. I had to g… father: SEE? I TOLD YOU SO. WAS I NOT TELLING YOU SUCH? BUT NO! TU BADA NATAK WATAK KAR DIYA! HO HO! HA HO! me: that only adjusts your status from completely INSANE to tolerably NUTS. OK? father: HA HA! oh beta! ha ha!
of course NOW their new complaint revolves around when we plan on having kids. sigh
ITS MADNESS, I TELL YA
Insert obligatory Apu & Manjula reference here. [__________________________________________]
hilarious post, AC. I don’t think its anyone’s claim here (if it is, speak now, or forever keep your peace 😉 ) that love marriages are better than arranged marriages…but, simply that (as many people have pointed out), one should be allowed to have a choice…
as an aside, the love marriage trend seems to be growing in india…i don’t have a single friend back in desh who got hooked through an arranged marriage…
Beige Sage, your new name aint doing ya any favours. The difference – or the connection – is the resources that people in western countries have to find out about other cultures and the presence of immigrants from these cultures in their own countries in ever-growing numbers.
Joining a group where you play the tablas shows in interest in Indian culture that’s not mainstream – western clothing is mainstream in India, but tablas and traditional instruments aren’t known to many other Beige Sages. No it’s not fair to expect people to know everything about every other culture, but I think the whole arranged marriage thing is a sore point because people have been through convos like the overheard one so many times.
Great line, hairy_d 🙂
AC that was a hilarious and thought provoking post. The mentions of Kiehl, Rajasthan and Manhattan resonated loudly.
Fair enough, Beige Sage, I am guilty as charged. I shouldn’t have made the connection, just because I hate both drum circles and people who make asinine assumptions about my culture. I’m not compelled by the excuses you made in either’s favor, but in the scenarios you presented, I admit that they are not clearly connected.
And on this particular point:
I have no such expectations. Especially not from Americans. I merely wish they would give some thought and some respect to the culture from where their tabla came. Is that really unreasonable?
I like what HMF and Beige Sage have been saying. And I agree that “relationshipping” (a verb that a friend of mine uses constantly) is definitely a learned skill that gets better with practice and time. I did and said crap to boys when I was younger that I wouldn’t do now. But I am grateful that I’ve had the boyfriends I’ve had, I’m still friends with most of them and they helped me be who I am today. I love all of them for what they were to me at a particular point in time, at a particular point in my development. I thought my college boyfriend was my “soulmate” but looking back, we’ve both changed and taken different life paths and couldn’t be together now. Point being, I also don’t like the idea of marriage/not getting divorced as some sort of proven marker of relationship success. I consider most of my relationships to have been successful for what they were, you know?
Secondly, I’ve been told by a few Brit Asians that it was well-known (at least 10-15 yrs ago, I dunno about now) that the whole “assisted introduction” thing in the late teens and early 20s was a way to get a quick, strings-free shag. Kids would agree to it, go take a walk together while the parents were talking and get it on in a car or something, and then come back and say “No, I don’t think it’ll work out. Who else do you have for me?” So I suppose that’s an interesting combination of Western dating and Eastern tradition. 😉
“lajja bhushana stri” indeed! Maybe someone needs to go to the malls of South Bombay next time they’re in the old country.
You know what? My friend recently joined a famous intenational website devoted to matchmaking amongst desis. I’m sure you all know the name of it. He is approaching 30 and getting the usual hassle to try and find a nice girl by his family, get married, settle down.
Anyway, in the last 6 months or so he has hooked up with five or six girls across the country. It’s a freakin’ meat market. Boys and girls are hooking up and getting laid all on the understanding of their families that they are seriously complying with the gentle pressure to find a mate, then meeting similarly inclined people, half wanting to meet someone for marriage, half horny as hell and wanting to just have fun before the noose of marriage and the thirties come along. I chatted to someone else and he says it’s the same, what a way to meet girls/boys for no strings attached fun. All undercover of course. And all those aunties and uncles thinking you are such good and nice boys and girls for doing as they say hahaha. My friend is oversexed now. Total shagfest.
Sometimes it sucks to be in a relationship.
How about this FOB ad 😉 Tamil Iyengar boy,177/65/US$95K. Btech IIT Madras/MSCS UT Austin. Working as a software engineer in Redwood shores looking for a suitable match. Girl must be fair/tall/must play veena/know Bharat Natyam/cook rasam and be obedient. Software engineer with H1B under processing preferred. Send horoscopam and details to…
Because your question fails to take into account the Indian historical, philosophical, and religous context of the place marriage has in human existence. I’ve explained in this thread and many others, the arranged marriage system as it’s coupled with the belief that marriage exists to support the underlying societal structure, rather than support the individuals at hand, in my view, is quite inferior.
I’ve already expounded on how guilt, fear, asking questions like “you’re 30 and not married, what will the neighbors think?” etc.. do nothing but subvert the society it intends to serve.
Another poster gave an example where the individual voluntary requested the parents to help out – and in that sense, the parents become just another feeder source. But when parents impose their own timetable, based on knee-jerk social conditioning, I believe it does more harm than good.
There you go again. Using your limited definition of “not getting divorced = success”. It’s an uncritical and imcomplete analysis.
I’ve already addressed your erroneous usage of the 50% statistic in the context of desi’s born and growing up in the United States, and your simplistic view that “well if two people can only get it 50% right, 10 people should be able to raise it to 70%, right?” reduces the problem to a linear, rational process. If anyone tells you marriage is a logical, rational, well-thought out process, I’d request him to share some of the crack he’s smoking.
Often with a complex emotional issue, more people might actually hamper the situation, this isn’t like trying to build a car.
True you haven’t, but many that tout the 50% statistic over and over again usually do hold arranged marriage as superior.
To get minorily sociological about it, from what little I know UK culture is very liberal in regards to sex. And so is US culture. Out here, I’d guess if you go out on a date with someone and have any kind of chemistry, the chance of a hook up is good (although I am throw-back sidaa sadaa)….so these people are just doing what is done in our society, albeit with a hue of sepia thrown in. If John and Sally in their late 20’s early 30’s meet up coming from across the country, hit it off and have some chemistry, you’d make no money in Las Vegas betting against a hook-up and no one would think to say a thing about it being illicit. If Happy and Bubbles (these are real names btw) get it on, they’re just being real americans all night (thats billy joel right?)
Sahej
Yeah, but I have a sneaking admiration for Happy and Bubbles driving from London to Manchester to shag each other then saying ‘see ya later’ all the while their conservative parents think they’re being sidaa sadaa and submitting to the whole dot com matchmaking rigmarole. It’s all about context, and the hormones raging underneath those happy-smiley-respectable profiles and photographs. Nothing wrong with a bit of sexual mutineering amidst the bullshit and hypocrisy of the desi marriage industry.
Amardeep, thanks for drawing attention to my little experience. And thanks for the comments, all.
Earlier, I would have protested and tried to convince/explain to people why their ideas are wrong, but I began to realize that these assumptions are SO deep-rooted that they are extremely difficult to erase. I also receive periodic reminders of how almost everything in an Indian wedding can be SO alien to Americans.
Most American friends of mine who attend a traditional Indian wedding for the first time find it a shocking experience. One of my colleagues came up to me one day and described an Indian friend’s wedding she’d just been to. She was most shocked by the fact that ‘The guests did not even bother to pay attention when the actual ceremony happened (the saat-pheras etc), but just continued talking and eating and stuff’.
Besides the amusing assumption that an Indian wedding with 400-500 people is HUGE, the conflation of ‘arranged marriage’, ‘forced marriage’ and ‘child marriage’ was really quite cringe-inducing.
One possible solution, when you guys get married the next time, do it in a somewhat traditional Indian way and invite as many Americans as you can!
Because subconsciously, no one gives two shits about the two people getting married, it’s about fulfilling a “debt to society”
HMF @ 50: “I think kindness, empathy, are natural qualities, no one is born an adulterer or mass murderer or anything else for that matter. It’s a matter of uncovering them. Romance skills (actually I don’t like that term, I prefer social dynamics) can only be acquired from test drives.”
Isn’t “uncovering” the EQ type skills/ qualities (such as kindness, empathy, emotional resilience etc, which you say are innate human qualities – and to which I agree with reservations) a matter of learning through the more complete web of human relationships than just romance/ dating/ “test drives”? One can be an effective/ charming “dater”, and never be any further in uncovering/learning these skills, mainly because they are usually learned (and come into play) in the long run. And all this reminds me of a story of Buddha.
That said, your ciritique (@ 86) on how the “arranged marriage” system can be a deadline-based, guilt-tripping, societal pressure cooker is quite on the money .
Insted of getting frustated, one should try to “educate” others about their culture and traditions
if people were genuinely intersted in another person’s culture, they would take the time to learn it themselves…
just look at how many fob’s come and settle in US – it’s not like they go asking ghoras directly about their religion or culture – you just learn things as you go on .. and if its something you don’t understand and it doesnt really matter – well then you keep your mouth shut…
if some ghora asks you about arranged marriage, there is some sarcasm involved in the question – it’s really stupid and pretentious of a ghora to ask someone if their parents will arrange their marriage for them when the desi is there with his/her girlfriend/boyfriend…
and btw, its not just in india arranged marriages are poplular.. its common in asian culture in general…
And who invented this love-marriage term anyway? Does anyone know anything about its origins, usage, etc? Is it restricted only to the desi community? I never heard an American describe their marriage as a love marriage.
And it does not seem to describe all Western marriages very well. For example, would the marriage of Anna Nicole Smith to Howard Marshall qualify as a love-marriage? Maybe love-marriages should be called self-arranged marriages, just to make it clear that the people getting married decided on their own accord. The term love-marriage imputes them a motive they may or may not have.
its David Bowie, and its Young American in the song lyric. song.
Spose I agree with you Red Snapper. Although….why not kick it all away and tell the community to go stuff it? But anyway, lets leave Happy and Bubbles to their deed!
The peope attending the wedding? Not really. It’s about food and aunties on the prowl.
Yeah, I think most people just think, screw it, save the heroics for later when you bring home a Muslim/Hindu/Sikh/Black/White boy or girl whom you want to marry. In the meantime, just do what you always do, sneak behind their back and have fun doing what men and women do, just the same way you always have done with backwards Indian parents! When you reach a certain age you realise some things arent worth the hassle and you choose your battles. Everyone does undercover things these days.
Sashi, I agree with you, One can be a charming dater and still be no further in the EQ type skills as you say, but the converse is not true unless one engages in “test drives.” By that I mean, in order to be in a position to show a woman you are kind, empathetic and emotionally agile, the test-driven achieved skills of attraction generation, social dynamics or the more crude “gaming skills” need to be tip top. And we live in a society that expects it, but grew up in a society that essentially discourages it.
That’s really all I was saying, because the women that advise their guy friends to “be themselves” to attract other women, might as as well advise them to eat their own excrement. And I sensed in your comment :
“this is not to implay that “romance” skills are not required but that they are minor, atleast in my system of thinking”
you were headed in that direction. Sorry if I read into it too far.
Desidawg (#85), please let me know where you found this ad. I might be eligible. IIT, UT Austin, $95, what a catch! I’m not Iyengar yet, but am willing to become one. Anyway, that was not required in the ad. I can cook much more than rasam. Fair, tall, veena, check, check, check. I’ll have my brother contact his family with my…Wait, HoroscoPAM? That doesn’t sound real.
And oh, I’m firm believer in obedience.
Sukanya Kurmari Tons more at Tambrahm.com. Make sure you send a pic of those obedience handcuffs when you respond…