By now many readers will have read the admirable article by Laurie Goodstein in the New York Times about the declining numbers of the otherwise highly successful, globalized Parsi community. The main problem seems to be the core community’s reluctance to accept intermarriage of any kind because of a blood-based definition of what makes a Parsi a Parsi, though there are other factors (such as low birth rates, high levels of professionalization, and diasporic scattering).
Of course, there’s an obvious historical connection here that Laurie Goodstein doesn’t make, which has to do with the role of the Parsis before Indian independence. A new blogger called Strange Loops has a well-phrased response:
While I think the article gets most of the nuances and issues facing this very small, but historically significant, community correct, a few further points bear some exposition. First, the Parsi community pre-1947 (and to a lesser extent, afterwards) was undeniably Anglophilic in bent. Exceptions abound of course, including Dadabhai Naoroji, who became the first Indian MP in the British Parliament in 1892, and a father figure to a generation of Indian nationalists. The Anglophilic inclinations of many Parsis were encouraged by the British from early on for pragmatic and ideological reasons. The British sought to cultivate an indigenous elite with a vested interest in the preservation of Empire, and further saw Parsis as more ‘whiteÂ’ … and thus culturally closer to Europeans. Indeed, the British often referred to Parsis as the ‘Jews of IndiaÂ’ (a somewhat ironic statement given the rich history of several Indian Jewish communities). All this made the transition to an Independent India an awkward and stilted affair for many (but by no means all) Parsis in Bombay and elsewhere. (link)
Perhaps the reluctance by more conservative Parsis to accept intermarriage has to do with exactly the kind of internalized racial thinking the blogger (who is not a Parsi him/herself) is talking about. Personally, I’m rooting for the Parsis; I hope the faction that favors allowing people who’ve intermarried to remain in the community prevails.
For more on Parsi-related news, check out Arzan Wadia’s excellent Parsi Khabar blog.
I’m rooting for them too. I recently read “In the Corner of a Far Field,” Ramachandra Guha’s magisterial history of Indian cricket. Basically, the Parsis were the first serious players, and no team, Hindu or Muslim, could beat them for half a century!
All this made the transition to an Independent India an awkward and stilted affair for many (but by no means all) Parsis in Bombay and elsewhere.
Anglophilic inclinations aside, they are always looked as leaders of industry for ever: Tatas, Wadias, Godrejs, and therefore, I think they are part and parcel always. ArZan could tell us more.
Also, Feroze Gandhi being a Parsi, Field Marshal Manekshaw, Homi Bhabha (father of Indian Nuclear Science) too made a huge difference.
NYT article is pretty good but it does not touch much about the Parsi capital: Mumbai.
Say it ain’t so! As Rick said, in Casablanca, “We’ll always have Parsis.”
there are already several “renegade” priests who will marry non-parsis with parsis in a traditional ceremony. ultimately, i think there will come a point when the orthodox priests will have to give in.
alternatively, you could be like me and have many close parsi friends who make you an “honorary parsi.” if nothing else, at least the number has increased by one!
I visited a family in the cyrus minwalla colony in karachi, anglophilic seems to be about right. I don’t know the details of their worship but they had a room devoted to the gods, emphasis on the plural. they had the hindu gods, portraits of imam ali, a mary/jesus statuette, buddha. everything. I wish I’d had the courage to ask to photograph it.
did get this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cageitfallsinto/102572904/
they worship nature in the form of fire, in a fire-temple or agyari. non-parsis are not allowed. although one might think this is discriminatory, the story goes that when they were given permission to stay in india by the gujarati king all those centuries ago, it was on condition that they not convert anyone to zoroastrianism. and so, as a precaution, non-parsis were not allowed in their temples. and this tradition continues today. can’t vouch for the authenticity of that story, though.
Why don’t the Parsis take a hard core stance the way the Jewish community has done? Most Jewish children brought up anywhere in the world are acutely aware that their community is limited and they go out of their way to date/marry Jewish to continue their culture/religion. It is working so far as there is no decline in the Jewish population. Parsis should get the same conscience. Maybe Parsis need their own country in order to survive extinction.
Kush thanks for the heads up.
I think that the anglophilic angle is something that has always been there. So has the notion that the parsis were “neutral like the swiss” as exemplified in the Deepa Mehta movie (I forget the name)
I think that the Parsis of that time believed that the way to get around the British was to rise to their level in competence. Be it education, industry, or military. The Tatas for example believed that the British would listen to them by the mere fact that they had accomplished so much.
Yes, a very modern outlook on life helped in pushing forward social reform…..education for women up to the highest level.
The Great Ganesha….you are absolutely correct. This is precisely the reasoning, that many of our customs are the way they are. In Persia, Parsis married at noon, when the sun was at its highest and brightest.
When my ancestors arrived in India, the king Jadav Rana, asked us to conduct all our marriage festivities after dark, so that we would not attract attention of the native people and influence them into converting.
The issues that we the Parsis are encountering today are too deep rooted for this forum. They are regularly covered on the Parsi Khabar blog.
And if you really want to be an honorary Parsi, subscription of the blog is a sure brownie point in your application.
What? Has anyone told Dubya that the Magi are dying out? Well. Christmas just won’t be the same for this Hindu macaca.
I say they get Rockmaster Scott and Slick Rick, or maybe the Bloodhound Gang, to convert to Zoroastrianism and make “The Roof is On Fire” their new hymn. Big ups! I’d join DAT.
I don’t know the science (razib!), but I strongly suspect that Parsis probably don’t have the required healthy population to sustain growth rates enough for survival without intermarriage.
I am rooting for them, anglophilic aside, they have a wonderful reputation in Bombay for being people who have contributed a lot in many positive ways to India. Some more info on wikipedia
And what other religion has such a unique and eco-friendly means of funeral?
The Parsi religion is proto-Iranian, and very connected to Vedic and proto-Vedic religions. They worship nature, mainly fire. Their deities and names that are linguistically and historically related to Vedic deities. This Wikipedia link is quite illuminating, and people acquainted with Hindu mythology will see immediate linguistic connections.
That is actually probably correct. Here’s more on the Magi . Read the ‘Magi in India’ section at the end. My Vedic studies professor mentioned a lot of recent research arguing that the Magi in the Bible were actually descended from the ‘Maga’ in Punjab, who also moved further eastward into India to found the kingdom of ‘Magadh’. Probably as good a hypothesis as any.
Anyway, fact remains that the Magi were Parsis.
Qissa-i Sanjan:
Thanks for the link. I was pleasantly surprised to see that someone actually saw my first post. I am, by no means, an expert on Parsi culture and current affairs, and am sure others (who are perhaps members of the community themselves) could offer much more enlightening responses to the article. But, if in posting I’ve brought some additional information up for people’s consumption, that’s great; if I’ve generalized too crudely, my apologies!
rest assured, i frequent both your blogs quite regularly.
and i’m sure arzan will know much more about this, but there’s also another famous story about how the parsis were allowed into india: when they first came up on the beach, and were taken to the king, their leader asked for permission to stay to escape persecution from the muslims. the king, at first, declined, saying that his kingdom had too many people already – it was full. the zoroastrian leader asked for a glass of milk filled to the brim, and a spoon of sugar. he put the sugar in the milk and told the king that just like the sugar dissolved into a full glass of milk and made it sweeter, his people would fit into the local population.
i think they have lived up to their promise.
Parsis’ small numbers accentuated their affinity for the British. It’s not as if other communities didn’t have their Anglophiles.
a population size of ~100,000 is not necessarily problematic. but, my own impression is that
a) there have been bottlenecks, so 100,000 are descended from a few ancestors (e.g., the parsis who showed up in india claim only a few forbears) b) obviously the full 100 (or 200) thousand are not randomly, in reality lots of small diasporas are limited to themselves so they get inbred easily
a few points
1) the sassanids forwarded zoroastrianism as the imperial religion. there were attempts to convert the armenians, and fire temples were built in places like georgia in the caucasus. the historical literature & archeological finds seem to be clear that prior to islam some turkic groups in “turan” (that is, north of iran, “non-iran”) assimilated to the zoroastrian religion. i bring this up because a common argument, especially among parsis, is that zorastrianism is the ethnic-racial religion of the aryans of persia. that argument though is contextualized by a lot of history.
2) the article mentions that zoroastrians in iran do not accept converts. well, it is dangerous to be non-muslim and accepting converts in a muslim nation. the inward and endogamous nature of iranian zoroastrianism is simply a necessary precondition for their existence, if they were seen to reach out toward muslim persians they would have been blotted out as a community (as it is, until the 20th century they were found only in desolate places like yazd and kerman).
3) the parsis have clearly accept many indian assumptions from what i can tell despite their anglophilia. in iran separation and endogamy is a necessary preconditon for communal survival, but in india endogamy and separation are often the hallmarks of elite groups, the natue of indian social structure fosters the integration of communities in a community of communities, as opposed to a melting and bleeding through of individuals across social-cultural barriers. i have read that the zoroastrians of iran, once removed from the iranian shia state are more open to conversions than the parsis, and this is attribute to the fact that their ethnic purity is a function of the circumstances as opposed to ideology.
4) the idea that jews are prospering as a community that focuses on inmarriage is fallacious. a perusal of the American Jewish Survey will make that clear. americans have intermarriage rates per generation on the order of 30-60% (depending on how you define a “jew” and who you believe). their fertility rate is well below 2, and, their number as a proportion of the american populace peaked in the late 1940s. the most numerous, and most rapidly growing, major sect of judaism has the been rather open and intermarriage friendly reform movement.
5) in the modern, western, world ethnic religions will die and diminish. that is the nature of the game, individuals make choices freed from familial obligations and expectations, and over the generations erosion is a persistence fact of religious life. the only way to make up for this is outreach. if one does not outreach, then one sees one’s own base slowly shrink into oblivion.
p.s. if zoroastrianism dies out as an ethnic religion of persian aryans in a century that does not mean that the zoroastrian faith will die out. there are isolated western converts, and i am to understand in in that some of the central asian states of the former soviet union some non-islamic oriented turkic intellectuals have fostered a mild revival of zoroastrianism as their “ancestral” religion, and an alternative vehicle of religious expression to the “arab faith.”
I’m surprised that no one has commented about the timing of the NYT article – the goal of its subtext is basically to continue stoking the world’s anxieties with respect to Iran i.e. that it has managed to aid in the dilution of another of the world’s great religions – they just finished running a story by an Iranian Jewish immigrant along similar lines – http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/02/opinion/02hakakian.html
Thanks for the link. I had no idea Roya is Jewish!
The movie was Earth, and in one scene where the girl asks her mom why other Indians call them “bum-lickers” of the British, the mom says something to the effect of “We are not bum-lickers… we Parsis are like sugar in a cup of tea: sweet but invisible.”
Lots of movies made 20-30 years ago had Parsis in it. The anglophilia was prominent but the portrayal was very positive. One of my friends thought it’s unfair that there are so many movies made and so many books written about this small group :-). 1947 Earth is something of an exception in modern times. The “bum-licker” angle was played up, not just for the Parsis, but for the Christian converts of Lahore as well, though the class difference was obvious.
sa, Judaism accepts converts. Why, even Walter in The Big Lebowsky converted for his ex-wife.
Technophobicgeek, Thanks for the tidbit on the funeral. It’s new to me. Found this site describing the whole ritual.
Would it be such a bad thing if a religion died out? Hasn’t this been happening throughout human history?
Thomas Kurma,
It depends on whether the religion concerned has an overall positive effect on its adherents (their own behaviour/ideas/personalities, along with the impact the people concerned have on wider society), and on exactly what would replace the vacuum left if the religion did indeed die out 🙂
I grew up with lots of Parsis back home in my school in Ahmedabad. They have adopted mostly all Gujarati vernacular and traditions. More than 100 years ago Parsis were involved in some of the best “Gujarati” stage play (Comedy Drama) in Bombay and Ahmedabad. I just came back from a wedding of my Parsi friend’s daughter in Chicago. “Rohena Elavia” is Parsi however the groom “Gautam Kriplani” is a Brahmin from Kerala. In the early afternoon there was a traditional “Hindu” wedding with chants and vedic mantras , and in the evening there was a fabulous Zorastrian traditional “Parsi” wedding. Parsis are very sweet and always joyous people. They are slowly dwindling in numbers though. My wife owns few gorgeous “Jardaushi” sari.I hope they find a way to perpetuate their clan. To name a few Parsi stalwarts: Jamshedji Navroji Tata from Navsari, Nani Palkhiwala, Zubin Mehta, Adi Marzban, etc…
Nina Wadia from Goodness Gracious Me is a Parsi too.
The other version of the glass of milk story I’ve heard is that rather than sugar, a gold ring was dropped into the glass, implying that the Parsis would be invisible, while enriching their new homeland.
Thank god. finally somebody from ahmedabad.. which school did u go to, yo dad??.. I went to school with tons of parsis too – a very warm and proud people. One thing which I didn’t do (and now feel should have definitely done) is eat a lot of the exquisite parsi cuisine – aah, how depressing.
Amardeep haven’t you heard about Bhikaji Cama?
Shiva, thanks for the Bhikaji Cama reference. Although I came across her name now and then, I never knew much about her. I’m not proud of it 🙁
Yo Dad, FYI, the NYTimes article has a few paragraphs on your friend’s daughter and husband. (I presume, from your comment that you didn’t notice that).
Rev.Gauss: I went to St. Xavier’s High School (Standard 1 ~ 7 at Mirzapur, and 8 ~ 11 at Loyola Hall).
Ashvin: You are right. I forgor that the local TV media were present too, together with the Consul General and 700 other folks. Too bad “Yo Mom” was not in a mood to dance all night. Also Groom’s last name was not Kriplani, but “Ullal”. His mom’s name was Kripa.
P.S. By the way first commercial pilot’s license issued to any “Indian” was to a parsi named “Ratan Tata”.
Tah tah for now!
Lets not forget the spiritual mystic Meher Baba, another famous Parsi, though his teachings were more Vedantic than Zorastrian; he is also linked to Shirdi Sai Baba’s lineage. His most famous western disciple was Pete Townsend of the Who, and the rock opera Tommy is partially based on the Baba’s life.
And Freddie Mercury b Ronnie Bulsara .
I’m in favor of any mandate that keeps the Irani cafes in Bombay going strong.
Another well known Parsi, though for all the wrong reasons, is Navroze Mody, who 19 years ago (on September 27, 1987) was beaten into a coma by four teens in Hoboken, NJ. He died three days later.
Meher Baba?!? How popular is he in India? My best friend in high school was a “Baba Lover” and I’ve met scores of other hardcore American hippies who do their thing here, Sahavas and all. I never took it seriously because his following began in the mid twentieth century and consisted of basically lower caste/class Indians and upper/upper-middle class white folk (who are responsible for most of the institutionalization of the religion)… and y’all know what that means 😉
Anyway, I know that he was Zoroastrian, but I don’t know if he was Parsi. He was born in Iran, but grew up in India. His father was a professional and he did go to an elite English school in the Mumbai area. His hageography holds that he was “the avatar of the age”, and as far as I can tell from the Western literature on him, he was assumed to be the Christ of this age. His teachings also resemble Christian mysticism more than they resemble Zoroastrianism. His linking to Sai Baba, who has far more legitimacy among Indians, was to imply that he was even higher than Sai Baba and the other “sadgurus” or “perfect masters”.
sorry, meant to spell hagiography, not hageography
He was born in Iran, but grew up in India.
Shruti, according to the wikipedia article, he was born in Pune.
His linking to Sai Baba, who has far more legitimacy among Indians, was to imply that he was even higher than Sai Baba and the other “sadgurus” or “perfect masters”.
Everyone links up to the Shirdi Sai baba, and why not, it improves your spirtual brand immensely. But Shirdi Sai Baba has Parsi devotees too; in fact, one of the best short biographies in English is written by a Parsi devotee, I am forgetting her name…
Shruti, according to the wikipedia article, he was born in Pune.
no it doesn’t.
no it doesn’t.
Yeah it did, before you changed it to MARS 🙂
Two famous Parsis who seem to have been missed out here are 1. Rohington Mistry – the writer of ‘A fine balance’, ‘Such a long journey’ and ‘Family Matters’ – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohinton_Mistry
i think it was Freddie Mercury’s 60th birth anniversary a couple of days ago. bbc had a story on how the conservative island of zanzibar, where he was born, were opposed to any celebrations in remembrance of him.
Bapsy Sidhwa is another famous author.
And yes its Farrokh Bulsara, and not Ronnie. 🙂
Meher baba following is prevalanat amongst us Parsis.
There are a few others like that…..Nagraj Yogi….in Wadia Baug in Parel who has a huge non-parsi following with some of the wierdest customs
And before there were Aish and Sushmita there was Persis Khambatta.
How about post-post-colonial-you so post I caint understaand you Harvard Prof. Homi Bhabha? In fact there’s lots of Parsi professors…
From the NYT article:
If the orthodox branch feels the above and feels that the religion is ethnic in nature, what is their position on an ethnic Irani (who happens to be Muslim Christian or Jew) marrying a Parsi? Will their kids be accepted into Zorastraniasm if the non-Parsi person converts ??
The reason why I raise this question, is that if ethnicity was the issue behind not allowing converts, than a Iranian person should be allowed to convert, right?
Just a hypothetical question !!!!
Just a hypothetical question !!!!
some parsis have brought up gently outreaching toward ethnic iranians in the diaspora as being an acceptable compromise-reinforcing their numbers while remaining ethnically ‘pure.’ google it.
I have no idea what a “Parsi” is, but I will assume they have light skin and therefore considered gods and they had something to due with mathmatics thousands of years ago, for example they concluded 2+2=4, and that was there gift to the world.
Thanks Arzan. So he is a Parsi then? Do you know in what way he is received by the Parsi community?
The Competent British Vs the Incompetent Indians who need to rise to the level of the first? Hmmmm.
Gandhi has an interesting essay (called “Shaking the Manes” perhaps?) on the evolution of his thought processes re the Raj in which he describes how initially (while in South Africa) he thought that the way to win the ‘respect’ of the British (and therefore be able to set right the ‘flaws’ in the British system and win ‘equality’ etc) was to be as “competent” etc as them. However, he began to realize that no matter what Indians proved themselves, basically they would never really be respected by the British (except for a few exceptions and for the strategic sorts of reasons the excellent analysis by Strange Loops has). That is, he realized that the British system itself had inherent flaws and therefore was not one that should be supported.
The Strange Loops analysis is a good one. Both the British and the Parsis (with all due respect to them) found it strategically useful for the Parsis to view themselves as different, Anglicised, more ‘cultured’ (read Western).
Well the british rulers of India had their own color-based caste apartheid system going, and parsis and baghdadi jews (Sasoons et al) figured way higher in the totem pole than the dark-skinned natives of hindoostan.
Nepalese gurkhas also had a higher status in the colonial caste system than the hindu, muslim or sikh natives. While the native soldiery were called sepoys and barred from british canteens, the mongoloid gurkhas were called riflemen and welcomed into those same canteens.