I am often surprised at the propensity of hyphenated identity discussions that we have here at Sepia Mutiny. If you read this blog long enough, it often feels like the topics in the comments are repetitive, and in some ways it does feel like beating a dead horse. But on the flip side, the fact that we still have so many people participating in such a heated discussion on race, being South Asian, and manuevering through the complexities of this uniquely diasporic culture simply proves the need to have this safe space online to have these relatively anonymous discussions that we wouldn’t be able to have elsewhere.
In yesterday’s Washington Post, John Thatamanil talked about the juxtaposition of being South Asian American in this country, and the lack of ever fully being American.
The Allen incident offers evidence that America is not now or likely to ever be a color-blind country. How are South Asians to live with this truth? Resignation is not the answer. Vigorous political participation is. My youthful intuition that what makes me as American as any Mayflower descendant is citizenship — not race or ethnicity — was only partly on the mark. The piece of paper that validates our identities as American citizens can do only so much if we do little to struggle for recognition.There is also a second lesson to be learned from this incident. South Asian political engagement cannot be driven solely by the private interests of a single racial or ethnic group. America’s obsession with color has a long history that South Asians forget at their peril. Indian Americans and other affluent immigrant groups would do well to remember the civil rights struggles of African Americans and others without whom a racially inclusive American nation would have been impossible. The Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1965, which opened the door to people from the Eastern Hemisphere, must be recognized as the fruit of a larger struggle to expand the meaning of the term “American,” a struggle fought on our behalf before our arrival. [link]
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p>The idea of what it means to be an American, through a South Asian lens is something I probably spend way too much time thinking about- if only because I am constantly challenging myself on the importance of voting and what exactly voting means in the scope of creating a South Asian American political voice. Are citizenship and voting merely parts of a false border created to divide our community? Are we aspiring to honorary whiteness as Thatamanil suggests? Is it true that we’ll never truly be American?
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Personally, I wouldn’t be able to do the work that I do to make our community politically engaged if I believed that it is impossible to overcome these barriers. In my world, I’ve redefined what it means to be American to include my hyphenated experience and I see the work that I do as to define my ‘American experience’ as on par with the civil rights that we as human beings deserve. For myself, I’ve redefined what it means to be a ‘patriot’, a ‘revolutionary’, and ‘political’ to include my experiences as a South Asian American and how I perceive that identity needs to be treated. With Macaca-gate still thriving and Traveling While Asian causing more problems then ever, I challenge everyone now to make some redefinitions of their own. And of course, I challenge everyone to go against the status quo and to also go register to vote 
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well, for the amount of cash he’s earning, I’d otherize myself.
*MD, sell-out.
100 comments in 3 hrs…not a bad rate by any means.
if you think that’s impressive, get back on the boat, it was well over 100 even while you wrote.
Desi cheerleading squad must be a part of the olympics. Then everyone can start arguing over the uniforms. Girls from India are in Punjabis, while those South Asian American girl team has those dirty mini-skirts. Cheeee! Tauba Tauba.
Is it going to be the squad that has dominated Fogana competitions in the United States or will be it be the underfunded but spunky crew from Himachal Pradesh?
guju,
how about amerika vs. england brown-math-olympiads. no contest, you don’t even need to play the game to know the outcome.
Polls aren’t showing a national groundswell for putting a foreign-born citizen in the Oval Office. In a USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll taken Nov. 19-21, 31% favored such an amendment, and 67% opposed it. Opposition dropped slightly, to 58%, when Schwarzenegger’s name was included in the question.
But considering the fact that the Americans have a nauseating reverence for the constitution, most Americans would be leary of amending the consitution for any reason except of course for stopping the faggotry of the homosexuals.
England wouldn’t stand a chance in the spelling bee. You guys are the gangsters of that discipline.
My spelling and grammar sucks, too.
u make the thug music, but we live the thug live. geek-thug that iz.
On racism and economic harm. Here’s a study on Muslim Americans. Haven’t parsed it so don’t flail me if its a pinko-leftist group.
NEW YORK – The earnings of Arab and Muslim men working in the United States dropped about 10 percent in the years following the 9/11 attacks, according to a new study.
The drop in wages was most dramatic in areas that reported high rates of hate crimes, according to the study due to be published in the Journal of Human Resources.
The study measured changes in wages of first- and second-generation immigrants, from countries with predominantly Arab or Muslim populations from September 1997 to September 2005. It then compared them to changes in the wages of immigrants with similar skills from other countries.
The average wage was approximately $20 an hour ahead of the attacks in 2001 and dropped by $2 an hour after them, Robert Kaestner, co-author of the study and a University of Illinois at Chicago professor of economics, said on Thursday.
That drop persisted through 2004 but showed signs of abating in 2005, he said.
‘I was surprised,’ Kaestner said. ‘We see an immediate and significant connection between personal prejudice and economic harm.’
Link
When I set foot in America in 1973, it was a predominantly white country. Today, brown is a common color in the human landscape. Heck, in a place like Miami-Ft. Lauderdale, where I live, brown is the mainstream color. And it is not just the color. Diversity has become socially accepted. Did you know that in the seventies, you could not get a hot cup of tea easily in most fast food restaurants because Americans only drank coffee, and only Indians ordered, or rather begged, for water with a McDonald’s meal.
Today, I can’t imagine how a desi could feel anything but American. I would venture to say that other typical desi attributes pose bigger barriers to assimilation for any ethnic minority. You go out to lunch with your colleagues and you have nothin to say for an hour because they are all talking football. Or your fourteen year old daughter tells you that all her friends have boy friends. Or your son is hell bent on being a writer instead of a doctor. Those, boys and girls, are what makes a desi of my generation feel like a foreigner forever. But if you grew up here, you don’t have those hang-ups? Why wouldn’t you feel as American as anybody?
P.S. Those desi hang-ups cited above are just examples, and neither are desis of my generation that worried about having them.
desitude: I dont know about that study but a lot of American born and raised Muslims who look Muslim (hijab etc.) are having a hard time in general. The number of women who wear hijab and drive and get shown the finger is staggering. Almost every hijabi I know has at least been verbally harassed in the last year or two. I actually question the wisdom of wearing hijab these days with all the shit going on.
Floridian,
My parents told me the same thing about hot tea…in the mid west in the late sixties they had to go to a truck stop outside the small college town we lived in to get hot tea! They said it was a really nice truck stop, though.
(I went back home to visit the Iowa State Fair and I saw like, so many Indians in one of the grocery stores in my town. I was like, whoah, where were you when I was a kid?)
razib, guju and red snapper: Big Brother, desidiaspora ishtyle with competeing diasporans?
Okay, time to stop hogging the thread.
Americans, you are members of the quintessential immigrant nation. And you have an economic profile that is very impressive. There will always be people who make the macaca type comments. Don’t let it get you down too much.
Random Thoughts ——> since Poland joined the European union, the UK has seen a level of immigration in the last two years unprecedented in its modern history, even during the post war migrations from Jamaica and India/Pakistan – almost 500,000 in two years. Polish is spoken in every city, and I was chatting to a friend who welcomes this greatly, saying that a side effect is that in the north of England, the presence of Polish and other east Europeans is starting to dilute the Pakistani ghettoes and refresh the areas…..and keep things moving economically and culturally too.
I also spoke to a Jewish lady who is an old friend of mine, and she told me that even though Jewish people are the most intergrated minority in England, she said she is aware of a residual distaste in the WASP salons for Jewish people, and no matter how long you have been in this society, there will always be a percentage of people who will not accept you. But then she says you Indians have the same attitude as us; just ignore them and get on with it, in short, f**k them!
That should be the general attitude everywhere, don’t let them get to you. There are plenty of people who do and will accept you without reservation.
SM guys,
Is it possible to add a spellchecker to the comment submission process? That would prevent a lot of follow up submissions. If that’s not possible, may I suggest to all that if you made some mistakes, please let it stand if readers can guess the right meaning. My guess is that most readers won’t assume that you are a poor speller or even if you are, that it’s a big deal.
I dont know about that study but a lot of American born and raised Muslims who look Muslim (hijab etc.) are having a hard time in general. The number of women who wear hijab and drive and get shown the finger is staggering.
I know this. I have an American lady who converted to Islam and wears the hijab who is frequently stopped by the police. Then she dishes it out like an American and confounds the ^&* out of them 🙂
Big Brother, desidiaspora ishtyle with competeing diasporans?
wut? wut will they compete with? # of MCs and indian restraunt owners?
Speaking of Muslims and how American they feel, here is an article from the Post. Lately I have had more than a few arguments with god’s warriors who insist on wearing hijab. Maybe its an affirmation of your faith when you get to deal with shit on a weekly basis kinda like the Christians and the Shiites who practice self flagellation.
Interesting to see the course of this thread (thanks for being civil, makes it easier to moderate) – I guess a couple of more questions to add to the identity mix is what does it mean to feel American? Because I feel, I know that in myself I’m American, but it’s outside people’s perception of me as a brown person for not feeling American. What do we have to gain to be perceived as “American” – for me, it means equality. Are whiteness and Americaness synonymous? And I can make these redefinitions for myself, but how can we take these redefinitions so that the masses of Americans see it?
As for as being fair skinned verses white- I’m not one to judge, I know there are some people who feel that if you can pass as white in this society, then you gain the priveleges of whiteness, whereas there are those that identify as a person of color when they have a great grandfather that is of color. And of course in the hispanic community, it is a big deal, and the reason why we have non-white hispanic and white hispanic as different markers on the US Census. I don’t really have a stance on it, besides, you need to find it in yourself what you identify with.
That’s ok, but we can still have cheerleaders!
“I know that in myself I’m American, but it’s outside people’s perception of me as a brown person for not feeling American.”
In most big urban centers, it is not brown but your accent and mannerisms that mark you as a foreigner. That’s what I believe. But if you are a second generation desi with American accent and manners, and still feel that you are perceived as less of an American, then that’s news to me.
I don’t know. Complicated questions. I’m an American, and I have such bedrock confidence in that fact that I can’t really justify it, except by simply saying that it is so, the only evidence I feel I need being my passport.
Is there a red state-blue state difference in terms of thinking of oneself as American for South Asians? Did (or do) you feel any less American when you lived in (or visit) a different part of the US of A? For instance, today I was asked by a perfectly well-meaning person which part of the world I am from, and so forth. And finally, he said that “in America, there is enough room for everybody”. I take that just as his own way of being welcoming, but I also think that people out on the West Coast would be likely to put it quite differently.
Everybody is a racist to some degree. Its inborn, and extension of the same emotion that makes us love our family. Whites are racist, and so are the chinese, Indians, and africans. Everyone is prejudged to a degree. In terms of being a desi, it works against you if you want to progress into management position (for most industries). I was reminded by my white boss, that I should understand that I would never be considered an american as long as I lived in the US. I am in a midmanagement position, and some blue collar types resented the fact that I was giving them direction. My boss hired me and he was just letting me know the ‘truth’.
I believe that you just have to accept the fact and do the best with it, otherwise anxiety and anger would simmer forever.
I am in a midmanagement position, and some blue collar types resented the fact that I was giving them direction
it would be different in another profession. it isn’t that big a deal for a brown dude to lead a team of programmers, or head the company.
How come nobody has defined the essence of America in this post? America is an idea, a state of mind, a shared belief that doing your own thing, even ridiculous things, is your right. Sure it is a geographical area with its own confining traditions, but the mind of America is still one of the wonders of the world and probably the single biggest facilitator of assimilation and Americanness for all ethnics.
floridian, amerika is both an essence and experience. it is the same in some fundamental ways, but changed a lot. e.g., black people are 1/1 of a human instead of 3/4.
I think you mean 3/5
sure. i guess i erred on generosity huh? 🙂
commencing e-masturbation…
which is why you have the highest echelons of political power occupied by people who just happen to be white, Christian and middle-aged
which is why you have the highest echelons of political power occupied by people who just happen to be white, Christian and middle-aged
10% of senators are jewish.
Indian culture is “othered” because it IS ANOTHER one of the world’s major cultures. The aspects of Indian culture that are observed in America by Indians is not mainstream in most places in this country. So what is the big deal about considering another culture, another culture? How is it inherently bad? Indian Americans who are a mix of Indian and American culture are creating a new type of Indo-American culture, something uniquely different from just “American culture” or “Indian culture”. How can that be bad?
The same thing with exotification. I’m exotified when I’m in India and quite frankly, I find it flattering and complimentary. Usually if someone finds someone else “exotic”, they mean to say they really find them “attractive” in a unique way that they don’t find others who are deemed “similar” to them attractive. It’s the opposite of “run-of-the-mill”.
Colin Powell, Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas, Madeline Albright, etc. don’t really count, right? The United States is a work in progress, has been for the last 200 years and will continue to be one. The ideas that have set this republic in motion are fundamentally sound. The country continues to evolve, complaining about the highest echelons of power occupied by white, christian, middle aged men doesn’t bring anything to the table.
As the country continues is path and more people from different communities become politically active, it will change its look. However, the majority of the population is white, so saying ‘they’re’ calling the shots doesn’t really help. As long as your rights and concerns are protected by fellow Americans, whether white, black, asian, whoever, I think we’ll be all right. Focus on the issues and their proponents, not the color of the skin as a requirement to get your views heard.
don’t Otherise us with your White Privilege! and stuff.
if you’re brown, hang around, if you’re not, get out of town!
Isn’t feeling American a matter of context? Literally. If I am browsing the B&N in Santa Monica i am barely aware of my surroundings and therefore never think of myself in relation to them. But, yesterday, driving thru the subsurbs of Simi Valley one thought kept going thru my head – “I would never be at home here. Even if was married with two kids and a dog.”
For those of you who grew up in the suburbs, how many of you would return there after experiencing more of the world?
For those of you who grew up in the suburbs, how many of you would return there after experiencing more of the world?
suburban alienation is not just a brown thang :=) i think we (not necessarily you in that comment) need to not conflate our own issus with brown-specific issues.
rta, Maybe , I was not quite clear. I am not referring to alienation. I am referring to the insular mostly white affluent world that many Indians are brought up in and whether the subtleties of race are more evident once you move away. I have seen enuf fake soccer mom friendships that my desi friends have indulged in and not an ounce of true cultural exchange took place.
Anyone thought of working/living in India for a trial year/two year period (especially if you work in IT)? If you want to be accepted with ease then I think there’s no better place in the world for us. If you are up for the fight of being accepted here go for it but life is too short in my opinion. Besides do you really WANT to be accepted as just another American, I think our parents and their Indian values give us something to be very proud of and its better to be seen as Indian first and then American.
Oh no you didn’t twist this thread by bringing exotification into the mix.
I am assuming that you are white? And that in India you are white exotified in a brown culture?
And you are trying to draw parrallels here? Even though India has a history of being colonized in INDIA by the white man? And that anything for YEARS that has been white has been glorified in India? And that it is simply not a role reversal table turning in America with being exotified as brown in a white culture? White is the dominant race no matter where in the world you go, and you can’t flip it because the privelege is trasnational, transhistorical.
I am exotified here in the US and quite frankly I find it degrading and it makes me feel unattractive because they see me as only beautiful because I’m different and brown, not because I’m intelligent and witty. They don’t acknowledge my history and my life experiences when I get pick up lines like, “Let me be your Bin Laden, baby.” If you find me attractive, just say I’m attractive instead of saying exotic. Along the same lines, don’t use the term “orientals” and don’t fetishize me either.
I can give you a book list to help educate yourself better, if needed. 🙂
Antidote- Watching the Emmy’s last night, Wentworth Miller came on stage. I said, “wow, what a interesting stiff name.” And my little sister responded with “Yeah, it’s so exotic.” I’m reclaiming the word, and redefining it as mine.
Feeling out of place in middle to upper class suburbia is a common feeling, even amongst white Americans. Alot of people find it very boring, isolated and a place that is hard to meet people and make lasting and fulfilling relationships, especially if you are moving to one wherein you hardly know anyone at all, which is very common.
Why is it that so many people are utilizing internet dating sites to meet people? Meeting people and making significant connections in real day to day encounters is more difficult due to the isolated nature of modern day life in America, I feel.
the air conditioning in the office is too strong & it be chill. i feel oppressed by eurocentric standards of a “comfortable” temperature.
For those of you who grew up in the suburbs, how many of you would return there after experiencing more of the world? I think that one way to deal with this might be to “psychologically shift” when dealing with people who are not familiar with Indians versus those who are. I am no expert on psychology, so all I am saying is that you can choose to be less “judgemental” of people around you. This, of course, does not mean that you do not try to not change the way your identity is perceived through various political/educational means.
and why don’t i turn down the thermostat? ah…but the subaltern is not allowed anywhere near it! i do not want to be the shunned Other.
Taz, yes I’m drawing parrellels. I’ve not experienced that anything white, western or American is constantly glorified in India. Quite the opposite. I cannot tell you how many times I and some friends have been called, “lal bandars” – (pink macacas). Also, westerners are generally seen as sexually immoral and lacking culture, dharma or religion of any kind. Moreover, alot of people assume you are “angrez”, English, so you got to deal with the brunt of their anti-British angst also, despite not being British. It can be Narak, pure hell.
And when I am exotified, like you, it is not for my intelligence or wit or life experiences, it’s for something external like the color of my skin or eyes. I’m different and white. Just like you’re different here and brown. And then of course, like some desi women complain of “kama sutra” pick up lines, well, plenty of North Indian men think that there is no rape in America coz all the women here will do it with anyone automatically. Yes, believe it or not, that mentality is not uncommon.
All of the above are my personal opinions based on years of personal experiences. And I’ve only mentioned a few of the mild ones, real mild.
Parrellels to what you’ve written above? Hell yeah, and then some!
Why then do you like it, and I hate it?
One word. Power.
MirRaj,
No one censored anyone. Try posting again.
Hmmmm, interesting side business you’ve got there, SM Intern (#147). I see discipline in the bunker has fallen off during the dog days of August….
😉
About half-way through Thatamanil’s drivel, I thought to myself “Betcha this guy is a professinal academic.” Sure enough – teaches at Vanderbilt. Don’t get me wrong – there are plenty of academics who can right in a straight-forward manner, this dude just isn’t one of them. Using the foolish tactic of starting off with an anecdote is bad enough – a number of us recall that schmuck Pius Kamau in 2004 wrote a vicious column on Indian doctors, based not on his own interactions with those doctors, but childhood rumors her heard growing up in Africa. Thatamanil, while not as mean-spirited, clearly doubts the ability of whites to see beyond color (has he read an Indian matrimonial ad?), although he keeps citing the Allen reference over and over. I was disgusted with his comments too, but I doubt that this outrage would motivate the Democrats if this were not an election year.
Whatever man. The fact of the matter is Thatamanil has a good point. Despite how American you think you are, there are plenty of people around you that will make you feel like you arent. We have all had the experience when someone flings a slur at you an makes you aware of your ethnic (be that religious or skin color) differences when you thought it was a big deal before. And if you havent had this experience I invite you to come to Texas(other than Austin) or Louisiana sometime and see how long it takes for someone to make you aware you arent “American”. Hell I’ve been in college classrooms where people have said “The problem with Microsoft is that there are too many asians”. I am tired of Indians burying their heads in the ground and puttering off how racism isnt as bad as we think it is, we are complaining too much. I’m glad you live in such a dream world but not all of us do.
Taz, I don’t like being complimented on my looks because of power. I just appreciate being appreciated in a place where I am normally not even treated as human by some people. It has nothing to do with power. I have no power in India, politically, culturally, gender-wise or anything.
Now, as far as the sexual harrassment face by me on almost a daily basis there, due to perhaps exotification (though Indian women are harrassed all the time too so I don’t really know if the exotic factor is at play or not), no I don’t like it at all. But a simple compliment like, “you have pretty eyes” or whatever, yeah that’s ok.
correction: We have all had the experience when someone flings a slur at you an makes you aware of your ethnic (be that religious or skin color) differences when you thought it wasnt a big deal before
LBPG, And when I am exotified, like you, it is not for my intelligence or wit or life experiences, it’s for something external like the color of my skin or eyes. I’m different and white. Just like you’re different here and brown. First of all, I sympathize with your experience, and I think racism is wrong wherever it occurs. Nothing I say here should take away from that essential point under which I hope we all agree. There might some degree of cultural relativity, and if people assume differences between people because of culture, then that is one thing. However, if people are discriminated against solely on the basis of the color of their skin (and I think we are talking about Indian Americans who are American in terms of culture), I think that is grossly unfair. Racism, defined as discrimination based purely on race, is wrong, even immoral, wherever it occurs.