I am often surprised at the propensity of hyphenated identity discussions that we have here at Sepia Mutiny. If you read this blog long enough, it often feels like the topics in the comments are repetitive, and in some ways it does feel like beating a dead horse. But on the flip side, the fact that we still have so many people participating in such a heated discussion on race, being South Asian, and manuevering through the complexities of this uniquely diasporic culture simply proves the need to have this safe space online to have these relatively anonymous discussions that we wouldn’t be able to have elsewhere.
In yesterday’s Washington Post, John Thatamanil talked about the juxtaposition of being South Asian American in this country, and the lack of ever fully being American.
The Allen incident offers evidence that America is not now or likely to ever be a color-blind country. How are South Asians to live with this truth? Resignation is not the answer. Vigorous political participation is. My youthful intuition that what makes me as American as any Mayflower descendant is citizenship — not race or ethnicity — was only partly on the mark. The piece of paper that validates our identities as American citizens can do only so much if we do little to struggle for recognition.There is also a second lesson to be learned from this incident. South Asian political engagement cannot be driven solely by the private interests of a single racial or ethnic group. America’s obsession with color has a long history that South Asians forget at their peril. Indian Americans and other affluent immigrant groups would do well to remember the civil rights struggles of African Americans and others without whom a racially inclusive American nation would have been impossible. The Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1965, which opened the door to people from the Eastern Hemisphere, must be recognized as the fruit of a larger struggle to expand the meaning of the term “American,” a struggle fought on our behalf before our arrival. [link]
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p>The idea of what it means to be an American, through a South Asian lens is something I probably spend way too much time thinking about- if only because I am constantly challenging myself on the importance of voting and what exactly voting means in the scope of creating a South Asian American political voice. Are citizenship and voting merely parts of a false border created to divide our community? Are we aspiring to honorary whiteness as Thatamanil suggests? Is it true that we’ll never truly be American?
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Personally, I wouldn’t be able to do the work that I do to make our community politically engaged if I believed that it is impossible to overcome these barriers. In my world, I’ve redefined what it means to be American to include my hyphenated experience and I see the work that I do as to define my ‘American experience’ as on par with the civil rights that we as human beings deserve. For myself, I’ve redefined what it means to be a ‘patriot’, a ‘revolutionary’, and ‘political’ to include my experiences as a South Asian American and how I perceive that identity needs to be treated. With Macaca-gate still thriving and Traveling While Asian causing more problems then ever, I challenge everyone now to make some redefinitions of their own. And of course, I challenge everyone to go against the status quo and to also go register to vote 
.
Ask yourself this, what do Americans think of Indians in general?
Hopefully a little better than what you think of Americans, in general. Weren’t there a whole bunch of people in India who said an Italian-born Catholic cannot be a “real” Indian?
she was “American” as many of my Indian American brethren claimed, how could her name be mangled so conspicuously? Kalpana Chawla’s name mispronounced? Vhen? Vhere? 🙂 I think the ‘w’ might throw some people off.
I have personally found that it can be hard to keep proper names that originate from a language that you are not familiar with right, or even consistent, and that it can sometimes be difficult to change accents midstream. Like, for instance, if I was talking about Xeni Jardin, after about five careful attempts to make sure the first name was right, I think I would lapse into ‘Zenee’, and maybe even Jardin with a J.
letz go back to brownland! whites r racist!
(after you ladies & gentlemen)
Taz : My wife and I are very, very, lite skinned and very, bery proud Indian Americans of Kashmiri origin. We oft hear the, “you can’t be indian” comment. That is despite our very Sanskrit names.
So, does that make us “white”? Or, is white a state of being, a way of life?
“people don’t “learn” how to pronounce the name “tom.” they don’t learn how to spell it. they are simply so familiar with it that it is a reflex. so part of the issue is that brown names just aren’t familiar enough so that their reflexive spelling & pronounciation is reflexive. e.g., my name, “razib” is as simple as can be, compared to say, “alexander.” but the latter is easier for people to handle cuz they’ve seen it multiple times.”
Technically speaking, we do “learn” spellings and pronounciations, we just aren’t formally taught it. My point was, even though Kalpana name was unfamiliar, given the gravity (no pun intended) and national scope of the event, the president or one of his staff could have taken the extra step to ensure the pronounciation was correct. Just because western names don’t need to be taught, doesn’t mean unfamiliar names cannot be taught.
I for one am happy when someone asks me if they are pronouncing my name correctly, it implicitly shows they are beginning to accept it as an “American” name rather than writing it off as some nuisance they have to deal with because immigration laws weren’t strict enough. But anyhow it’s a small example, doesn’t detract from my original point that us considering ourselves “American” really doesn’t do much until the people who have ownership of the term basically “let us in”
When my generation was in its youth, our parents would hear about famines in India and China. Kids* were told to finish everything on their plates because kids in (insert famine-stricken area of the moment) were starving. It was a well-intentioned admonishment designed to instill gratitude for plenty. I guess some of those kids grew up to make that bumper sticker, without any knowledge of any other goings-on in India. It’s only funny if you’re ignorant, which as you know many Americans are.
*My parents didn’t do this, because they didn’t want us to develop eating disorders. Thanks, Mom and Dad!
The key difference is that discrimination of women is ingrained in the mindset of the people and is also instituionalized, while lunatic right-wingers are just that, a fringe. This isn’t Germany in the 1930s.
Oh come on, guys, Bush mispronounces everything! Verbal skills are not his strong suit. I voted for him and even I cringe when he speaks.
You guys should see the discussion of this over at:
http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2006/08/gaffe_underscor.php
Intense.
Oh come on, guys, Bush mispronounces everything! Verbal skills are not his strong suit.
True dat
raj,
amren is a white nationalist site. not an american one 🙂
Over here it’s the same – folks constantly butcher my name and that of everyone who doesn’t have a traditional Dutch name. Heck, even an Italian friend had to suffer. Especially since my name is spelled according to English grammatical rules. I know a Bengali couple, they gave their first daughter an Anglo nickname and their second one an uber-Scandinavian whiter-than-white name. Only her surname would betray her origins. Anyway digressing now, pronunciation is hardly a litmus test for assimilation(you can tell one someone’s being intentionally insulting), and this is Bush we are talking about, the one who doesn’t even have a proper command of the English language.
From raj’s link. Take that brownz! 🙂
AllenÂ’s words may have stung, but the economic disaster the Indian H-1Bs have brought to AmericaÂ’s computer programmers and engineers has been a DEATH sentence for the dreams of the lower middle class.
Get the Indians out of here and back to their subcontinent.
Posted by at 6:24 PM on August 25
Indians running for office is good news. If anyone deserves to be put out of work and replaced by Indian immigrants, itÂ’s the pack of venal American politicians whoÂ’ve been letting them in.
Posted by Michael Scott at 6:38 PM on August 25
We have become a nation of crybabies. They better toughen up a bit cause things donÂ’t get easier as you get older. I think all the hoopla just pointed out a new word for many of us.
Posted by GetBackJack at 7:40 PM on August 25
Why are they so eager to reach out to Indians? ItÂ’s certain that the Indians donÂ’t constitute a major number of voters, so whatÂ’s the deal here? The Bush Administration would have much more success; the president would gain a larger amount of support, and his rating would go up if heÂ’d focus on the largest group of voters: The left-out, unrepresented white, Christian males.
And as for the Senator’s remarks: Who cares if he called some Indian “macaca?” I certainly don’t; no, not in the least. If anything, it shows evidence that he isn’t a race-panderer.
Posted by James Harrison at 8:09 PM on August 25
This article shows that it doesnÂ’t take long for hyphenated Americans to begin participating in the LiberalÂ’s favorite sport: Forcing White men to apologize for words or actions that offend a beloved minority. White men must never forget that everyone, except themselves, must be treated with deep respect. If a White man violates this mandate, no apology can be too profuse or abject. Africans were pioneers in this great sport, and still the champs, but other groups are giving them stiff competition. These Indian hyphenates are showing that they too will be a force to be reckoned with.
To Raj:
The issue is not whether Indians are “bad”. (But I have to ask, why havenÂ’t YOU joined the armed forces as would a Kansas farmboy would – seeing how youÂ’re here to “embrace” America?)
See, we have a civilization because we were willing to sacrifice for it. You weren’t. Why don’t you build your own America — in India?
You and your relatives are stealing infrastructure created by centuries of risk & sacrifice of my forebears. They built this country for their posterity.
There are illegitimate voices wrongly telling you that America belongs to everybody. It doesnÂ’t. If youÂ’re worthy, why donÂ’t you bring your OWN country into the 21st century – all of it.
And again, why do you think you can call yourself an American if youÂ’re too craven to hoist an M-16? YouÂ’re not living the American dream – youÂ’re here as a parasite.
The “othering” of Indian culture is institutionalized in American society as much as discrimination of women is.
razib_the_atheist,
I know, but it is one of the fastest growing sites in popularity in America.
Here is what one guy over there said
QUOTE:
“The issue is not whether Indians are “bad”. (But I have to ask, why havenÂ’t YOU joined the armed forces as would a Kansas farmboy would – seeing how youÂ’re here to “embrace” America?)
See, we have a civilization because we were willing to sacrifice for it. You weren’t. Why don’t you build your own America — in India?
You and your relatives are stealing infrastructure created by centuries of risk & sacrifice of my forebears. They built this country for their posterity.
There are illegitimate voices wrongly telling you that America belongs to everybody. It doesnÂ’t. If youÂ’re worthy, why donÂ’t you bring your OWN country into the 21st century – all of it.
And again, why do you think you can call yourself an American if youÂ’re too craven to hoist an M-16? YouÂ’re not living the American dream – youÂ’re here as a parasite.”
KXB wrote:
But a much bigger bunch..around 30% of the voting population in India did vote for her …indirectly (Congress).
I know, but it is one of the fastest growing sites in popularity in America.
amren vs. my weblog (amren blue, my weblog red).
1) it isn’t fast growing, in fact its traffic has dropped a lot over the year 2) it isn’t popular if i run a 3,000 unique users per day weblog which nearly equals it 🙂
Desitude, that thread is something. I have a friend, very, very liberal and very, very Massachusetts, whose husband lost her job to Indian outsourcing. She called her congressman to complain, but she was never a free marketer to being with….
amren vs. sepia mutiny (SM in red).
That’s analogous to saying that since 90% of women in India are happy to stay at home
A very large (say majority) percentage of women work in India – maid servants, farm workers, construction workers, school teachers etc.
Only middle class and upper middle class (which is still a small % as a whole) stay at home, and that too is changing. I hardly know of any woman in India in their 20-40s who does not work. Maybe, few from rich business families.
PS: Years ago, Science, an AAAS magazine did a survey of academic faculties in sciences in Poland, Hungary, India, USA, Germany, UK with respect to female. The top countries for female faculties were Poland, Hungary, India in middle, USA and UK on the bottom. Their hypothesis was extended family support group, and importance of science education for women.
But a much bigger bunch..around 30% of the voting population in India did vote for her …indirectly (Congress).
Yes, but she could not become PM, for fear that her “otherness” would make her a target of the age-old Indian tradition of assasination.
Truth be told, I have no idea how tmatters are actually in the USA. Over here America is elevated by Indians to the status of some beacon of multiculturalism, and a lot of them ultimately move there.(Only to be sorely disappointed of course – things aren’t much better or are even worse there than here. And anyway, the fact that they don’t enjoy is here is more a reflection on their attitudes on the this country.) I have to keep reminding the Indians here that no, America is not a melting pot, and in fact the different racial groups are completely segregated – blacks, hispanics and whites, the three largest groups, don’t or hardly mix. However from what I read I find people in the USA in general to be very hung up on ‘race’. In my short 19 years I’ve seen far too many official forms – a tribute to the Dutch bureaucracy I guess – and none of them requested my ‘race’, only nationality.
Raj –
If that guy typed “Patel” in the Navy’s global directory, he’d realize there are a ton of people, in and out of uniform, serving this nation. And that’s only Patel, there are many others with different last names whose ancestry can be traced to India. Joining the military is not a requirement of citizenship. Speaking of abusing infrastructure, Indians have contributed just as every other immigrant group in helping build infrastructure. Many have worked in government services, INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY, and other places making their contributions.
What racists say to justify their own xenophobia and desire to segregate has remained relatively the same, just a different time and place.
People don’t need to seek validation, just work hard, contribute to the system (votes, military, industry…)and educate. You’ll become an American along the way.
blacks, hispanics and whites, the three largest groups, don’t or hardly mix.
cite: In Joyner’s study, Hispanics had the highest rate of interracial relationships: 45 percent of 18- to 19-year-olds and 33 percent of 24- to 25-year-olds were in interracial relationships in the early 2000s, compared with blacks (20 and 14 percent, respectively) and whites (16 and 12 percent, respectively). While Asians appear to be comparable to Hispanics in terms of rates of interracial involvement, age patterns for Asians were not presented in the study, Joyner said, because there were so few within some of the age groups in the surveys.
age-old Indian tradition of assasination.
Wasn’t Amreeka trigger happy too – McKinley, Lincoln, JFK, Reagan (attempt). They used to be a 20 year curse.
I agee they (Congress) feared assaination and would have mucked up Rahul’s chances.
Yes, but she could not become PM, for fear that her “otherness” would make her a target of the age-old Indian tradition of assasination.
In the US, a foreign born person is constitutionally debarred from holding the highest office, so the issue couldn’t even arise.
Meena, there are lots of reasons for Americans to be hung up on race….first, our ‘colonialism’ didn’t take place abroad in other lands (so to speak), we had our own civil war amongst our own population on our own land that stopped the worst of it, and we have a long history of immigration that is continually shifting in terms of immigrant group. Ethnic Americans are not the majority like ethnic Dutch. And lots of people who claim they want a color-blind society are completely invested in bean counting and keeping track of things, like, say, the whole multi-cult South Asian types . The melting pot was always filled with little lumps of cheese melting. It takes a while for the melting to occur.
Instead of citing examples from my own life, I’ll just use two articles from today’s news. In the News Tab of Sepiaumtint, I posted a number of items. One is a Chicago Tribune article that covers a small Indian community in the poor town of Harvey, Illinois – which is just south of Chicago. The majority black population, although poor, does not bother the Indians. Even the gangs leave them alone. But, since these poor black people have no understanding of Indian culture, shouldn’t they be unaccepting of them? That is not the case.
The second item is from 20/20. which had a 30 minute report on the story of Sujeet Desai and Carline Bergeron – the Down Syndrome couple that got married a few months ago. Their differing religions are never conisdered an obstacle by the two sets of parents.
William Buckley once remarked that he would rather have a government composed of 100 random people from the phone book instead of 100 random names of the Yale faculty. Thatamanil may not be from Yale, but he is an example of why too much time in academia skews ones perceptions of the country.
In the US, a foreign born person is constitutionally debarred from holding the highest office, so the issue couldn’t even arise.
Yes because there was a concern that the President might be a British loyalist. Things were a little different in 1776 and nobody gave the United States much chance as a nation. In the context of late 18th century, the prohibition was quite reasonable and had nothing to do with xenophobia or nativism.
*ethnic Americans referring to native Americans 🙂
we’re all brown, so i’ll see u around town.
William Buckley once remarked that he would rather have a government composed of 100 random people from the phone book instead of 100 random names of the Yale faculty.
I think he said Harvard, but it was an astonishly foolish thing to say nevertheless.
There were a lot of political tactics in play in her “rejection” of the PM’s post. And assasination is not unique to India..it did happen in other countries too…and even US.
In US, a foreign born is debarred from contesting for a President’s post.
True, but still not an excuse. He’s still the leader of a nation. Saying noo-kyular instead of nuclear is not the same thing when human beings are involved.
Saying noo-kyular instead of nuclear is not the same thing when human beings are involved.
but he has ‘little brown ones’ in his own family!
In US, a foreign born is debarred from contesting for a President’s post.
Yes and we need to put that in some historical context instead of using it as evidence of the xenophobia of the current American populace.
It could have made sense 100 years back….but what is its significance today ?
It could have made sense 100 years back….but what is its significance today ?
Well more like 200 years back. As you know it is extremely difficult to amend the consitution. Since the Bill of Rights additions, there only have been 17 or so amendments in almost 200 years.
Oh, and Meena? Your comments are so interesting…I love hearing about Dutch desidom. Cool.
Um, wow. I cant even begin to imagine my parents telling me that. Wow.
I don’t know. Complicated questions. I’m an American, and I have such bedrock confidence in that fact that I can’t really justify it, except by simply saying that it is so, the only evidence I feel I need being my passport. (Maybe that unjustified certainty is part of it?) It annoys me when others don’t see me as American, but it shakes my confidence not at all. And the vast majority of my political vision has very little to do only with being desi. It might be informed by my desi heritage and experience, but I can’t really think of a single cause I’ve espoused that my non South Asian friends wouldn’t readily understand, and wouldn’t either agree or disagree with just on the merits. My sense of community solidarity is pretty much pragmatic—what I believe in is the abstract ideal of community, so I nurture the manifestations of it as they bubble up in my life. South Asian community is just one of many. The “American” tag applies to a lot more.
yeah meena, at least you aren’t always freezing like the f**king kanadians.
Sounds like an excuse to me 🙂
In US, a foreign born is debarred from contesting for a President’s post.
Yes and we need to put that in some historical context instead of using it as evidence of the xenophobia of the current American populace. India and America are quite different worlds in terms of experiences of race. I am not sure how relevant the example of SoniaG is to this discussion. SoniaG suggested the name of Manmohan Singh for Prime Minister herself. Plus, Manmohan Singh is by far the more qualified person for the post in the first place.
letz drop the india vs. amerika comparison already. letz get down with the american brown!
Al:
Yes and we need to put that in some historical context instead of using it as evidence of the xenophobia of the current American populace.
Polls aren’t showing a national groundswell for putting a foreign-born citizen in the Oval Office. In a USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll taken Nov. 19-21, 31% favored such an amendment, and 67% opposed it. Opposition dropped slightly, to 58%, when Schwarzenegger’s name was included in the question. Link
Opposition dropped slightly, to 58%, when Schwarzenegger’s name was included in the question
they’re racist against austrians, people with accents and hard to pronounce names!
Yes…lets roll with the real topic.
Maybe someday we can have a desidiaspora cultural olympics……Brit Bhangra versus M. Night versus Russell Peters and so on.
Bring. It. On.
hiz name is manoj. not “m.” you got a problem with reel name? don’t Otherize him.
but you are an MD, i guess more likely to Motherize him.