I am often surprised at the propensity of hyphenated identity discussions that we have here at Sepia Mutiny. If you read this blog long enough, it often feels like the topics in the comments are repetitive, and in some ways it does feel like beating a dead horse. But on the flip side, the fact that we still have so many people participating in such a heated discussion on race, being South Asian, and manuevering through the complexities of this uniquely diasporic culture simply proves the need to have this safe space online to have these relatively anonymous discussions that we wouldn’t be able to have elsewhere.
In yesterday’s Washington Post, John Thatamanil talked about the juxtaposition of being South Asian American in this country, and the lack of ever fully being American.
The Allen incident offers evidence that America is not now or likely to ever be a color-blind country. How are South Asians to live with this truth? Resignation is not the answer. Vigorous political participation is. My youthful intuition that what makes me as American as any Mayflower descendant is citizenship — not race or ethnicity — was only partly on the mark. The piece of paper that validates our identities as American citizens can do only so much if we do little to struggle for recognition.There is also a second lesson to be learned from this incident. South Asian political engagement cannot be driven solely by the private interests of a single racial or ethnic group. America’s obsession with color has a long history that South Asians forget at their peril. Indian Americans and other affluent immigrant groups would do well to remember the civil rights struggles of African Americans and others without whom a racially inclusive American nation would have been impossible. The Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1965, which opened the door to people from the Eastern Hemisphere, must be recognized as the fruit of a larger struggle to expand the meaning of the term “American,” a struggle fought on our behalf before our arrival. [link]
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p>The idea of what it means to be an American, through a South Asian lens is something I probably spend way too much time thinking about- if only because I am constantly challenging myself on the importance of voting and what exactly voting means in the scope of creating a South Asian American political voice. Are citizenship and voting merely parts of a false border created to divide our community? Are we aspiring to honorary whiteness as Thatamanil suggests? Is it true that we’ll never truly be American?
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Personally, I wouldn’t be able to do the work that I do to make our community politically engaged if I believed that it is impossible to overcome these barriers. In my world, I’ve redefined what it means to be American to include my hyphenated experience and I see the work that I do as to define my ‘American experience’ as on par with the civil rights that we as human beings deserve. For myself, I’ve redefined what it means to be a ‘patriot’, a ‘revolutionary’, and ‘political’ to include my experiences as a South Asian American and how I perceive that identity needs to be treated. With Macaca-gate still thriving and Traveling While Asian causing more problems then ever, I challenge everyone now to make some redefinitions of their own. And of course, I challenge everyone to go against the status quo and to also go register to vote .
Great post, Taz. π
Well – to be literal – as Bill said, “No!. π
But… I will answer your question with an excerpt from Obasan.
Q.E.D.
But does it apply across the border?
Well, I’m registered to vote, but I doubt you’d like the way this Indian American votes π
I’m sorry, but a certain level of brown ‘woe is me’ navel-gazing drives me, well, batty.
Yeah, I’m American. It’s simply what and who I am. Aspiring for whiteness! Feh. What nonsense. Those of us who grew up in the States have every right to decide how much or how little of our parent’s culture we want in our own lives. I am a citizen of this country. Pray tell, how does this citizenship create a border for me? I’m fine with the border. It’s just fine by me.
You know, the father’s dictum in that Washington Post article was terrible. What a terrible thing to say to a young man. My parent’s never would have said that to me. Oh, don’t get me wrong, they understood plenty about predjudice, but what they did do was never create a predjudice in me of other Americans just because they were of the majority.
Well, as usual, there are a million errors in my writing. Sigh. I never learn to preview, do I?
I’m feeling particularly dense today. I don’t quite understand what you mean by a “border … to divide our community” in this context.
ThatΓβs a good post. I just want point out that all the 2nd/3rd or even 10th generation German/Italian/Irish Americans, point out that they are Irish or Italian ten times a day. They are proud of who they are. And I donΓβt think they are getting accepted as Americans just because they are white. Well maybe a little. But also they are proud of their heritage. And some of the 2nd generation Indian Americans go out of the way to prove they donΓβt have anything do with being an American of Indian descent. And to prove that they talk only about the bad things in India. And it surely backfires on them. Mainly because all white people equate half of themselves to their heritage(Irish/Italian), and if you bad mouth your own heritage, i don’t think they would have a nice opinion(not that it matters). So they will think of India when they talk to you, and you cannot prevent that.
Disclaimer: I donΓβt want to make all the 2nd gens angry here. I said ΓβsomeΓβ not ΓβallΓβ.
don’t worry MD, i never heard of no preview either π
one thing, i’ve mentioned this before. when i wuz a kid i’d get “where are you really from every week.” as i got older, this happens less and less. often it is from an older individual, and often that individual gets really embarrassed that they just asked the question that they asked in that manner. to some of our fellow americans we will always be ‘macacas.’ to some we have never been ‘macacas.’ to some we are no longer ‘macacas.’ the key is to increase the % of the last group. some of it is going to come naturally as the younger generation of americans who are used to browns without accents grows up.
I just want point out that all the 2nd/3rd or even 10th generation German/Italian/Irish Americans, point out that they are Irish or Italian ten times a day.
this isn’t true. there are studies which show that people who are descended from immigrants of the ‘great migration’ of the 1840s from ireland are more likely to be protestant now than catholic. the majority of german, irish and even a large % of italian americans, have melted into the ‘mainstream.’ there are local concentrations, south boston, milwaukee, long island, etc. these are taken to be typical, but they are simply remnants which we identify as normative because they are distinctive.
The fathers advice of “Don’t ever believe you are American” holds more weight than is acknowledged in social circles. Although I would have expanded on it to say, “Don’t ever believe you are American, unless the people who defined the term say you are”
Thanks for a great post Taz. What was that some folks were saying about ‘eastern’ history being separate from ‘western’ history and how what happened all those years back doesn’t affect Indians because only the small local history of our village affects us?? etc etc. Beautiful answer Taz. Right on. Everything affects everybody–so we might as well get wise and join the struggle.
I never got into this whole patriot way of thinking. If I make alot of money and vote then what? My reward is being labeled an patriotic American? What would being seen as a true patriotic American in the eyes of others ever do for me? Nothing! The only way to live like an American is to do everything you can to take advantage of capitalism, where the only color that matters is green. Sure there might be a few hicks here and there that might see a South Asian as a terrorist, but so what? Am I supposed to enter apple pie eating contests and put a God bless America bumper sticker on the back of my Ford F-150 pick up truck just to please people who dont matter at all? There is no way in hell a Sikh, for instance, would ever be considered a “true American” and in the big picture that doesnt matter at all.
There is no way in hell a Sikh, for instance, would ever be considered a “true American” and in the big picture that doesnt matter at all.
just like “rajiv” will never be an american name. where have we heard that before???
About half-way through Thatamanil’s drivel, I thought to myself “Betcha this guy is a professinal academic.” Sure enough – teaches at Vanderbilt. Don’t get me wrong – there are plenty of academics who can right in a straight-forward manner, this dude just isn’t one of them. Using the foolish tactic of starting off with an anecdote is bad enough – a number of us recall that schmuck Pius Kamau in 2004 wrote a vicious column on Indian doctors, based not on his own interactions with those doctors, but childhood rumors her heard growing up in Africa.
Thatamanil, while not as mean-spirited, clearly doubts the ability of whites to see beyond color (has he read an Indian matrimonial ad?), although he keeps citing the Allen reference over and over. I was disgusted with his comments too, but I doubt that this outrage would motivate the Democrats if this were not an election year.
TYPO – who can write in a straight-forward manner
Okay, to make my point more clearly this time.
I’ve struggled (still struggling) these past 37 years in this country, to be authentically myself. I suppose I sort of drank the individualism kool-aid they gave out in high school. I have my own personal history and I dislike tying myself to some sort of collective group or political consciousness just because my parents are from India or I have a certain shade of skin. I also dislike a certain type of Indian immigrant who thinks I (or people like me) look down on my heritage because I don’t eat Indian food every day or whatever. That’s just an example – I don’t mean it literally, so take it easy, okay. It’s my life, not yours! And if some racist doesn’t accept me, well, as long as they are not physically threatening to me, I don’t care what they think of me. I just don’t.
I have my own ideas about the world, as a woman, as physician, as a child of Indian parents and an American. I was a year old when I came to this country. This is the land of my childhood and it’s been good to me. Does that mean I wouldn’t or couldn’t have had a good life back in India? Of course not (although, the avonex for my multiple sclerosis, how hard is that to get in India, Indian peeps reading?). Still, I feel that I am uniquely myself and that identity involves being an American. I am fully that. And if some racist person doesn’t see it, there are plenty of non-racists who do, and they matter more to me.
Also, I agree with #6 Milind. I’m confused by that particular sentence, too…..
Apology if this sounds wonky. But since the start of this nation voting was synonymous with being white landowning male. We as desis, got the right to vote after the Luce Cellar Act, the year before India’s independence. Technically, we got the right to naturalize as citizens. So voting can be perceived as a privelege, as well ass being a citizen is a privelege. This citizenship “privelege” in the US has also served to create a border- the us ‘priveleged citizens’ versus them ‘non-citizen, often people of color, always immigrant’ – in the desi community, it is the privelege of the ABD verses the FOBs in this country. that’s the question though, how defined is that border? Is it really there? I know that I’m personally conscious of it when registering people to vote, because half time the non-native desis will say, “I’m not a citizen” and they’ll walk away- but just because they are not a citizen and not able to vote, does not mean that they can not be politically engaged in the “brotherhood” definition of what a citizen is. I feel that by asking people to vote, and them walking away, I am otherizing them, making them not feel included in ‘what it means to be American.’And thus the border.
Anyways, don’t know if that explained it- I’m still learning academia talk π
KXB – perfect way to put it. He does doubt the ability of whites to see beyond color. And yet, he’s married to one? Some people are so hung up on color and they ain’t all politicians in Virginia……
I’m still learning academia talk
i think you are going in the wrong directing girl…. π
Thanks for the explanation taz π
And if some racist doesn’t accept me, well, as long as they are not physically threatening to me, I don’t care what they think of me. I just don’t.
I would imagine that you dont care because you dont believe that the racists are large enough in number.
He does doubt the ability of whites to see beyond color. And yet, he’s married to one?
Both are not mutually exclusive unless he is insinuating that no white can see beyond color.
I kind of have to agree with this sentiment. Whether I associate myself with the “indian,” the “american,” or the “hyphen” doesn’t really matter to me so long as I work my way through the world in such a way that, I hope, carries some integrity, some honesty, and some generosity. I am very proud of my heritage, of my unpronouncable name, and the thick american accent I have when I speak Tamil. I find my position in the world to be quite liberating because I can raise my very long middle finger to just about anything I find objectionable. I feel comfortable doing so because I can easily step outside the Indian or American fish bowl and see it as an “outsider.” Likewise, I’m free to embrace that which I adore of each culture because I am indian enough, and american enough, to have a more than passing understanding of the social morays that led to those great things. In short, if neither side accepts me, who cares? I’ve made it this far without any real problems and, absent something truly unexpected (and therefore, unpredictable), I don’t see why my personal growth should be hindered in the slightest.
My prayers for everyone is that instead of identifying as immigrants or South Asians or any kind of community, if we could put equal effort in identifying as human being with human qualities to share and celebrate our life. I am very sure that all other identities will melt away. I am also sure that no one gets credit or reward for beging or acting as human. But I can assure that the reward dosen’t come from outside( from people and material) it will come from within us. It will come from a satisfied soul and happy mind.
The quality of life is not if we have food or shelter… it is the quality of heart that we carry in us. Success is in having the courage to face life and not in embracing the easy paths or in achieving our highest potential.
Thatamanil, while not as mean-spirited, clearly doubts the ability of whites to see beyond color (has he read an Indian matrimonial ad?)
That both Indians and Americans have color issues leads one to believe that colorism, or at least judging people according to literally superficial categories, may be a universal phenomenon.
Right brownz seem to view left-of-center brownz as victimologists with a benighted view of the majority, who are indeed able to transcend colorism/racism in meaningful ways. And there have been no pogroms.
Left brownz view right brownz as naive idealists who buy the talk of individualism, when their private realities, and indeed human history, tell them a different story.
Al Mujahid for the debauch, my friend! Define racist and then we can talk numbers….when I say I don’t care what I really mean is that I’m not going to think I’m less of an American because of some dummies. As for the second point, well, it’s so annoying! Oh, woe is me, woe is me! He does doubt the ability of whites ‘en masse’. At least, that’s what I got out of the article, but maybe I’m reading him wrong. Hard core racists are small, if vicious and disgusting and all things vile, in number, I believe. I’m not willing to include the more minor transgressions in that group which means that the world I see is far more benevolent. I mean, the minor transgressions occur from white to brown, brown to white, brown to brown. Plus, I’m a woman and when you navigate the world as a woman, well, believe it or not, the brown-ness doesn’t seem as much of a big deal as the woman-ness. Get what I’m saying, boys?
Define racist and then we can talk numbers
you go girl!!!
Agree with the sentiment. How do you think the other 90% of the desi brothers ‘n sisters get along in life? Key: they don’t think about such issues too much. So there are a few racists around. Meh. Who cares? And it should be up to the individual as to how much he/she is letting their Indian background dominate their life. If they don’t care too much about their culture, fine. That does not mean for sure that they are pandering to white supremacists. Perhaps they just choose to live that way. No one is the better or the worse for it.
Absolutely! I just don’t have anything to add to this.
Define racist and then we can talk numbers….when I say I don’t care what I really mean is that I’m not going to think I’m less of an American because of some dummies. As for the second point, well, it’s so annoying! Oh, woe is me, woe is me! He does doubt the ability of whites ‘en masse’. At least, that’s what I got out of the article, but maybe I’m reading him wrong. Hard core racists are small, if vicious and disgusting and all things vile, in number, I believe. I’m not willing to include the more minor transgressions in that group which means that the world I see is far more benevolent
I guess I was pointing out the fact that the reason most people dont care about racists (including me) is that we dont believe that the hard-core racists (as you say) are in the majority. If they were, then it would become hard to ignore them and you wont be saying things like these ‘And if some racist doesn’t accept me, well, as long as they are not physically threatening to me, I don’t care what they think of me. I just don’t.
I guess I was pointing out the fact that the reason most people dont care about racists (including me) is that we dont believe that the hard-core racists (as you say) are in the majority.
4/10 Americans believe that Muslims should carry id cards – according to a Gallup Poll, not a VDARE poll π Even if not, ‘deeply felt’ as Razib contends, its still something that should raise concerns.
Correct me if I’m reading this wrong, but it seems like you’re trivializing the issues of racism and denying certain people “American-ness” to individual people, or “hicks” just “thinking.” And the other option is “physical threatening” I think racism doesn’t only exist in these two forms, there’s infact a wide spectrum in between.
I believe, the real issue is not whether we consider ourselves “American” its whether the people who defined the term expand its definition to include us. This means, I can eat all the INdian food I want, I can talk about vedanta all I want, I can wear a baseball cap, I can speak with an “American” accent. The issue is, are we treated differently not necessarily in the eyes of the law, but in the eyes of public majority opinion.
When Kalpana Chowla exploded with the other astronauts, the President did her the indignity of butchering her name multiple times, yet an American flag stood in her place, as she had naturalized to join the NASA space program. If she was “American” as many of my Indian American brethren claimed, how could her name be mangled so conspicuously?
The question to ask is not “Are we American?”, it’s “Are American’s we?”
In the end acknowledging your background, identifying with your Indian compatriots doesn’t matter ‘cos if you’re female you’re still on your own.
A qualification fueled by today’s very headlines in a manner far more tangible and sobering than any words that have passed through George Allen’s lips. This news item is flying beneath the radar today, but it’s not even remotely a trivial concern — from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
If she was “American” as many of my Indian American brethren claimed, how could her name be mangled so conspicuously?
dude, talk about trivialing. so a not-too-bright politican can’t pronounce a uncommon name. christine lahti called christian laettner “christine laettner” multiple times at the ESPYs in the early 90s. i’m sure he felt less an american π
Desis or whatever you want to call the South Asian population will never be full-fledged Americans. On the surface there might be talks of multiculturism and assimilation but such notions are only wishful thinking. That is why you get incidents like Macaca and the Dutch airplane incident. The outward appearance (i.e. brown skin) will stop any “real” assimilation from happening. It doesn’t matter if you change your name from Harpreet to Harry or if you hold weekly barbeque parties. Stereotypes, inherent prejudices, and a lack of knowledge about “desi” culture will mean that we will remain on the fringes of society. This is only more true after 9/11. Of course, this is nothing new. Look what happen to the Japanese-Americans during WWII….sure Americans speak of “tolerance” but when the time comes to walk the walk all that goes down the drain. So, today if you are brown skinned, board an international flight and play catch with your fellow desi passengers with cell-phones you can look forward to a few days in jail.
pied piper,
under the radar? we were getting to it- I can only post so often in a day… π
When Kalpana Chowla exploded with the other astronauts, the President did her the indignity of butchering her name multiple times, yet an American flag stood in her place, as she had naturalized to join the NASA space program. If she was “American” as many of my Indian American brethren claimed, how could her name be mangled so conspicuously?
Bush’s poor command of the English language is proof positive that Chawla was not considered an American? I’ve had Indians butcher my name, does that mean I am not of Indian heritage?
fringes of the society??? Isnt that a bit extreme??? The last time I checked IAs were the richest ethnic community in the US. They are represented at top from Technology to Academia to Law to Business.
The browning of the US has already started. CA state will soon Hispanics as a majority. Florida (Southern) is already preety brown.
I’m not trivializing the issue of racism. Far from it. I believe those that conflate physical violence and denial of jobs or voting rights, for example, with schoolyard taunting or mis-speaking a name, for another example, are trivializing racism. Money matters: when priviledged desis with good incomes and loving families take up the mantle of the dispossessed and the down-trodden, as if that particular experience of racism requires the same degree of empathy as a poor desi or a poor white, well, I call foul. Maybe empathy isn’t the right word. I dunno how to put it exactly. Allen was being a complete ass, but all the attention ‘poor’ Sidarth is getting? Huh? Sidarth has all the tools in the world to deal with the Allens of the world. I don’t want to blow off what Allen did, and I certainly don’t like it and would not vote for him. But really, by saying the brown navel gazers bother me, I’m not saying that racism isn’t a problem and isn’t important. I’m saying money matters, class matters, family matters, and this whole “I will never be an American” shtick is on some level self-pitying and self-defeating.
What it is to be an American changes all the time in terms of foods, clothes, ethnicity. The core is what matters most. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness…..citizenship. Duties as well as rights. That’s all I’m saying.
Maybe you can explain how your example relates to the leader of a country failing to learn and execute the correct pronounciation of a fallen member of the government space program, which is extremely selective and (at least at one point) the hallmark of the entire country’s scientific status in the world?
Yes. Mispronouncing a name is not a big thing to get in a twist over. but if it’s so small and meaningless, why not take the extra step to pronounce it correctly? It’s an example that shows some people are more American than others.
I challenge everyone to go against the status quo and to also go register to vote.
What we consume has a much bigger effect on the status quo than how often we vote or who we vote for.
I’m sorry, but just because some people ignore a problem doesn’t mean that a problem doesn’t exist. That’s analogous to saying that since 90% of women in India are happy to stay at home, we should ignore sexual discrimination in India. Something that is wrong is wrong, irrespective of how many people acknowledge it.
There is a certain level of “othering” of Indian culture in America. Although, that is not as bad as discrimination that African-Americans have faced, we should be working towards gaining more acceptance of our identities.
Yes. Mispronouncing a name is not a big thing to get in a twist over. but if it’s so small and meaningless, why not take the extra step to pronounce it correctly? It’s an example that shows some people are more American than others.
people don’t “learn” how to pronounce the name “tom.” they don’t learn how to spell it. they are simply so familiar with it that it is a reflex. so part of the issue is that brown names just aren’t familiar enough so that their reflexive spelling & pronounciation is reflexive. e.g., my name, “razib” is as simple as can be, compared to say, “alexander.” but the latter is easier for people to handle cuz they’ve seen it multiple times. i’m saying-there are far more prosaic answers to some of these issues that societal racism.
Fei,
If life in any country is simply, “As it was, so it shall forever be.”, then India will not move beyond caste, Arabs will never learn to govern themselves without strongmen, Europeans are just waiting to round up Jews, and Africans will never form modern nation-states. Unless you believe America is particularly incapable of change.
Eddie Murphy from Delirious:
Racism is still out there, but we’ve come a long motherfucking way. I mean, white people don’t even call black people nigger no more – especially when there’s niggers around, so I guess I wouldn’t know. Back in the 50’s, white folks would say, “Nigger” and black folks would just have to go, “Uh-huh.”
taz —
not under YOUR radar — under the mainstream media’s! π
peace pp
I have actually had a harder time asserting my “American-ness” to other brown folk – esp. the first-gen’s. I know a few SM’ers posted saying that the Amreekan Desis they know put down India, and all that. In my family, and their social circles, everyone still uses “American” as an exchangeable term for “White”.
“There was this American girl on that bhangra team…” Or, “These kids these days just are acting soooo American”, or something. I’ve lost count of the times I’ve repeated the lines “I’m American – you’re American. Look at your goddamn passport.” Most of the time when they use the term American, it’s to refer to specifically a white person. Not black, latin, anything else – not someone simply exhibiting stereotypically “western” behavior. I’ve seen it on a number of occasions. If they mean black, they’ll say black. If they mean white, they’ll say American.
And these same people love boasting in public about how American they are. I found it ridiculous how, post 9/11, all the same people who would talk smack about the kids acting “too American” were the ones rocking huge American flags outside their houses or off their cars.
What does being the “richest ethnic community in the US” have to do with anything? Sure we are represented but that doesn’t mean that we are assimilated, i.e. are “Americans”. Both culturally and politically, we are still on the fringes of society. Ask yourself this, what do Americans think of Indians in general? How do they describe us? Words like Doctors, Software Engineers, Taxi Drivers, Bollywood are all labels and don’t mean anything in the sense of being an “American”. This might not mean anything, but recently I was asked if Indians (in India) ride elephants to work….and the guy was dead serious.
We might be a majority but that doesn’t mean that we are “accepted”. The views held in California of Mexicans should be indicative of this.
So true, but I think that the combination of my brown-ness and my woman-ness adds up to more. Not that my life is horrible at all because of either. I love it when guys try to pick me up by asking about the Kama Sutra. π I’m just sayin’…
Speaking from experience, it sucks to have a hard-to-pronounce name, but I always give people a couple of chances, as long as they’re nice about it. However, I do believe that Presidents and high school principals ought to practice such names before memorial services and graduations. You know, things that matter.
Immigrant limbo: having everyone else tell you what you are. Whatever. I pick American…with an Indian twist.
I saw this bumper sticker today, what does it mean?
DRINK YOUR BEER. THE KIDS IN INDIA ARE SOBER.
WTfreakingdeedlydo?
brown.