By now, most readers probably know that Indra Nooyi is being promoted to the CEO of PepsiCo, a company with $38 billion in revenues. She’s been mentioned several times before on Sepia Mutiny, mainly in response to comments she made at a graduation ceremony at Columbia Business School last year. (There are several other posts on her as well.) And Manish had a solid post on her recent promotion this past Monday on Ultrabrown.
I draw two conclusions from her success. First, you can be a working mother and climb the corporate ladder while raising kids (Indra has two, who are I believe in their early/mid teens). Second, you can get ahead in the American corporate environment without sacrificing who you are culturally.
On the first point, there have been many recent stories about the difficulties facing powerful women. Maureen Dowd, for instance, recently published a book called Are Men Necessary?, where (among other things) she talked about the difficulty some women face in dating and/or marrying men who are less powerful or successful than they are. But a growing number of “power moms” are also flat-out powerful. And they do it without sacrificing their connection to their kids, as I think Indra Nooyi’s Nintendo policy proves:
She views PepsiCo as an extended family and everybody at the company is there to help in every way possible. Sometime ago, when Indra was traveling, her daughter would call the office to ask for permission to play Nintendo. The receptionist would know the routine and ask: “Have you finished your homework? Have you had your snack? OK, you can play Nintendo for half an hour”. She then left a voice message for Indra saying “I gave Tara permission to play Nintendo”. (link)
Have you had your snack? Ok, go play. Momma has to go acquire a multinational or two and pacify the Indian media regarding the recent pesticide allegations.
Secondly, you don’t have to sell yourself out and tell everyone your name is “Bob” if it’s really Balwinder. Nooyi’s story about getting her first job in the U.S. after completing her Master’s at Yale is illustrative:
A story of this determined girl, who while studying in Connecticut, worked as a receptionist from midnight to sunrise to earn money and struggled to put together US$50 to buy herself a western suit for her first job interview out of Yale, where she had just completed her masters. Incidentally, she wasn’t comfortable trying out a formal western outfit and ended up buying trousers that reached down only till her ankles. Rejected at the interview, she turned to her professor at the school who asked her what she would wear if she were to be in India. To her reply that it would be a sari, the professor advised her to “be yourself” and stick to what she was comfortable with. She wore a sari for her next interview. She got the job and has followed this philosophy for the rest of her career. (link)
And she’s not afraid of letting people know she is a practicing Hindu:
She lives with her husband and two daughters in Fairfax county, Connecticut. If you ever visit her Connecticut home, do remember to take your shoes off before entering. If you forget, at least remember to take them off before entering the large puja room where a diya is lit and the inviting air of incense greets you. She keeps an image of Ganesha in her office, and in fact, some PepsiCo officials visited India and received similar images besides being told of the Hindu belief about Ganesh being the symbols of auspicious beginnings. Many of them now keep images of Ganesh in their offices! Nooyi attends PepsiCo board meetings in a sari; for she believes the corporate world appreciates people who are genuine. (link)
Genuine, huh. I haven’t had that experience with the corporate world. 😉 But more seriously, the point is valid. One can acculturate without assimilating; it is possible to get ahead in life without selling yourself out to the image people expect you to inhabit. There’s no reason to be defensive about being a vegetarian, or preferring mango lassi to martinis, or cricket to baseball… and on and on.
Best of luck to Indra Nooyi!
I hear ya razib. There is always a challenge for people of color in big corporations, but as Nooyi, and countless others can attest to, you do not let that keep you down. It is incumbent on the minoirty/oppressed (or perceived oppressed) to punch a little harder, work a little smarter, etc.
During my early years on Wall Street, I was automatically dubbed the “numbers/modeling” jock by the clueless middle-level (white) guys – to be clear, women, regardless of color, never did this to me. Clearly, they had NOT seen my verbal scores/grades vs. my math ones. I guess they just sucked so bad at math, I was the proverbial one-eyed man in the valley of the blind! 😉 So, I would intentionally play stupid on quant issues and insist on a seat at the real table – some kneecaps had to occasionally be taken out as a result (one the reasons I left that ratrace to be an entrepreneur – i hate being that brutal person), but i came out on top based on this strategy. I saw too many desi people senior to me whose careers were marginalized to the quant functions vs. real leadership and advancement.
In my interaction with her back then, I sensed the same approach taken by Indra in her career, except she seemed to do it with a true smile – again, i am not worthy.
Hmmm. I have to say I am surprised by this comment. My experience of Tam Bram families (married into one) is that they are quite patriarchal (and not they alone), and encourage sons much more than daughters. The tradition of educating daughters is quite common among some other Brahmin communities too, but encouraging and fostering ambition and dynamism? That’s rare.
I hear ya razib. There is always a challenge for people of color in big corporations, but as Nooyi, and countless others can attest to, you do not let that keep you down. It is incumbent on the minoirty/oppressed (or perceived oppressed) to punch a little harder, work a little smarter, etc.
i concur.
“No, I’m not claiming exclusivity. I’m saying his name is used by disney, warner, et al as a selling point for his films, it’s kind of like cream on the top, so to speak. It’s a weird phenomenon actually, I think it sort inverts at some point. If you’re a small fish in whatever business (but I think it’s heightened in the film/media biz, where image & marketing is key) then youre expected to shunt your culture, tow the line, assimilate completely… but once you reach a milestone point, or a point of any kind of power in the public eye, then the powers that be will milk the cultural background if it sells. For example, they’d never do it for African culture because, the powers that be were responsible for destroying, at least a part of it.”
i can sort of see your point. sort of like if kal penn suddenly became a brad pitt-level star and they used his real name to promote the movies. but that could also be because he had achieved a level of acceptance that made it possible for him to use his full name (and it’s unfortunate that in this day and age a person still has to change names against their better instincts to get work), not necessarily because disney/whoever wanted to use his “exotic” aspect as a selling point (although that may also be part of it. but i think these days, unlike in the old studio system, the actors have far more control over their names and how they want to be seen by the public) in shyamalan’s case, however, i don’t think he ever really changed his name on his work (except from manoj to night, but the “montrous” shyamalan was always there), so i don’t see how any film company can be accused of using it as a selling point. scorsese is a selling point, as is spielberg because they make movies that are considered good and make money (and i know that shyamalan has received mixed critical success, but his box office success and the fact that he’s the director overrides any other reason, in my opinion for his name being out there. people associate his name with a certain type of movie. why wouldn’t they use his name, whether it’s shyamalan or jones to promote the movie?)
“So could pepsi sell more cans by having a high ranking indian in a sari? Probably not, well perhaps to India, but they can definitely boast to the business community about how diverse and committed they are to being “color blind””
I know anecdote isn’t data, but 4 years ago, as a North Indian of marraigable age, it was very hard for me to find a North Indian girl (espescially in my Sindhi community) who was career oriented, which was one of my top criteria. Even if we did, the girls wanted a well-settled boy (meaning a GC holder/citizen who has bought a house, and has family nearby). Most of the girls were (and I hate to say it) flaky and undecisive. The line that I hated most, which often came out of North Indian girls’ mouths:- “If you prefer this, it’s ok, if you prefer that, that’s also ok. Whatever you prefer”
Most of the time, it was easier to find a stronger and more career oriented woman from the southern community. That’s why I married a Tamil Iyer. Yes, I am a chicken-munching Sindhi married to a vegetarian TamBrahm. Wonder what will our kids look like, eh?.
I’m not saying that all North Indian girls are flaky,and my observations are not a result of some study. They are definetly observations of a lonely desi, so I would encourage you to take that with a grain of salt. Maybe there were some cultural influences that made career-oriented North Indian girls exclude me from their filter. But, going through this arranged marraige thing seriously started making me hope that I could resign from being a Sindhi papad.
Chandi, your experience (marrying into a TamBram family) counts for a lot. Indian families in general are patriarchanl. So, could it be–and I could be wrong at this–that as rare as educating the girls, fostering ambition and dynamism is amongst Indian families the South Indian Brahmins do it just a tad more than others, to account for what we see in the real world? Meaning, for a community as small as say the TamBrams, there is a high presence of their women in the professional world.
Razib, sure a larger sample size would help. Going by impressions for now in my experience I’d say there aren’t a lot of Indian women executives in tech, the few there are clearly identifiable, and about 50%+ of Indian women executives in tech are of South Indian origin. When the numbers aren’t large, I guess naming a few is sufficient to wonder if there is a pattern.
Al Beruni’s query–what accounts for the high presence of successful South Indian professionals?–has intrigued me for long. I’d love to hear theories, hypotheses, even impressions to explain that:-)
Razib, sure a larger sample size would help. Going by impressions for now in my experience I’d say there aren’t a lot of Indian women executives in tech, the few there are clearly identifiable, and about 50%+ of Indian women executives in tech are of South Indian origin.
you need to compare to the number in the general US pop too.
i wanted there to be a ‘poll’ of SM readers last spring, but the powers-that-be (minus manish) nixed it. well, there’s all this demographic speculation still…i for one, would still like to get a more precise sense of the numbers.
Pragma, Thanks for your comment, and I would love to hear more comments too. I am a PhD professional and Northie who married a Tam Bram who is similarly educated and has a sister who is also a PhD. So far it follows your pattern. But my husband always got more respect and importance in his family even though his sister was equally educated, older, more experienced, and worked in industry. Part of the reason my marriage is ending is that while my education was respected in my husband’s family, any ambition or aspirations I had were not. On the other hand, all the girls in my extended Northie family are highly educated professionals who have always been encouraged to have their own identity. Where were you looking Pagla?
Yea, I dunno. You can hardly see a college class picture absent someone from TamilNaduChennai or Kerala. What is the average IQ given for these group? Has there been any IQ studies specifically targeting this South-S Asia? How do they compare with Lankans?
” i don’t think he ever really changed his name on his work (except from manoj to night, but the “montrous” shyamalan was always there), so i don’t see how any film company can be accused of using it as a selling point. scorsese is a selling point, as is spielberg because they make movies that are considered good and make money (and i know that shyamalan has received mixed critical success, but his box office success and the fact that he’s the director overrides any other reason, in my opinion for his name being out there. people associate his name with a certain type of movie. why wouldn’t they use his name, whether it’s shyamalan or jones to promote the movie?)”
Actually he kept Manoj, it’s the M in M Night Shyamalan, Night is a nickname he earned while at NYU, his middle name is Nelliate, while this is a bit off topic, I’ll give you an example of a film company exoticizing him and his last name, the Sci Fi network did a documentary on him, where they implied towards the end that he was declared dead for 14 minutes, and is a ghost or some such crap. Can you imagine them saying spielberg is an extra terrestrial, or james cameron is a robot from the future?
But the studios can choose whether to release his film as “An M. Night Shyamalan” or say just “An M. Night” film for example? Both would achieve the same thing, but they go with the later because time and newsweek magazine can gawk over “that cool new name” It doesn’t undermine his talent or whatever, but it’s an extra plus point.
You can hardly see a college class picture absent someone from TamilNaduChennai or Kerala. What is the average IQ given for these group? Has there been any IQ studies specifically targeting this South-S Asia? How do they compare with Lankans?
the iq for south asia in the aggregate studies is around the low 80s. see lynn & vanhanen. here’s a survey, control-f “india.”
RK Khan: IQ levels are not that different amongst or across communities/genders/races. Environmental reinforcement (family support, role models, lack of alternatives, etc.) matters more, I think.
Chandi: Sorry to hear your story. Confirms a patriarchal strain in (some? many?) TamBram families and in some ways, that’s not surprising. Your ex’s sister’s education and accomplishments however seem to also validate this thread. We must remember owing to the near V-shape of the country, there are less South Indians and Tam/Kerala Brahmins are a microscopic minority in the Indian context (and even more so, in the American/world technology industry). What accounts for the high presence of successful south indian brahmin professionals?
Well Ms. Warrior is not a TamBrahm, she is, I gather a MALLU! Her community name is more commonly anglicized as Warrier, and more rarely as Variyar -administraors and temple assistants. Shyamalan’s mom is most definitely a Tamil Mudaliar –also administrators– from Pondy, but his dad is a Mallu too. Mallus rule! You can’t go to a tea shop in India without meeting a Nair, or some such thing…
Aslo re Ganesh, Rajat Gupta used to keep a photo of his guru, Swami Vivekananda, in his office when he ran McKinsey. So Nooyi’s example isn’t singular. People can be what they wan’t to be and still rise to the top.
Thanks for your comment, and I would love to hear more comments too. I am a PhD professional and Northie who married a Tam Bram who is similarly educated and has a sister who is also a PhD. So far it follows your pattern. But my husband always got more respect and importance in his family even though his sister was equally educated, older, more experienced, and worked in industry. Part of the reason my marriage is ending is that while my education was respected in my husband’s family, any ambition or aspirations
Yup, Yup. And that’s exactly why my wife was looking for someone outside the TamBrahm community. She is a driven woman (probably more driven than me.. I’m always telling her to relax), and she knew she would be restricted in a TamBrahm family
On the other hand, all the girls in my extended Northie family are highly educated professionals who have always been encouraged to have their own identity. Where were you looking Pagla? My parents were intially looking through relatives, and friends. Met some girls that I liked but I didn’t meet their expectation, but most of the girls, whose expectations I met, were flaky. Now, the North Indian community is not homogenous, so it could be my family. None of my female cousins are really educated, and got married after doing a semi-serious BA/BCom degree. When I was young, I always felt that girls didn’t have ambition, but I am not sure anymore whether their non-ambition is a result of the pecularities of my family, or whether North Indian culture influences girls to leave ambition behind. Even, in Software Engineering college in Bombay, we has 8 girls in a class of 80, and probably 2 or 3 of them had some drive. However, percentage-wise, girls were more driven that guys. Up until my parents started looking for girls, I had the impression that it’s my family, but I am beggining to think it’s Northie culture
Now Northie culture isn’t really homogenous, so it just might be my community.
Every time I see a rabid ethnic fervor for all things Indian, especially among second generation Indians, my paternal instincts for protecting and helping our young take over.
As a first generation Indian whose funny accent and other quaint, old-world habits instantly typecast him as an outsider in the American corporate world, I have had to wrestle with the cultural identity vs. assimilation issue all my life. And this is what I have learned – assimilation is not the same as submission, and in any group, corporate or otherwise, success is awarded to people who can lead, mingle and become a team player. To the extent your sari makes you stick out like an Indian maharani to the average gora, your success in any enterprise involving other humans will be limited. You can always go out and invent a cure for cancer, but if your career goal is to merely head the cancer lab, watch out.
I would bet that Nooyi always showed up for work in a dress when she was anxiously climbing the corporate ladder. In fact I have seen her older photos. Once you have become the CEO, you may be exempt from something as low-level as the assimilative attire criteria. But I assure you she now faces a new set of criteria to become “one of the guys” or “gals.”. That’s the way it is all over the world, even back in India.
Incidentally, I do speak with some expertise on the subject. Having achieved a little success in the American business world, though not quite on Nooyi’s scale, and made a buck or two along the way, I have never felt like a self-effacing, homogenized Indian American. I am as Indian as any uncle-ji you have known, and as American as any boss you might have had in your career.
A word of advice – your place of work doesn’t have to be the proving grounds of your culture. Conversely, I am not advising you to disguise yourselves at work either. But work, which almost always involves other humans, is assimilative in nature and rewards those who know how to belong.
Nobel laureattes CV Raman and Subramanyan Chandrashekhar, Chess champion Vishwanathan anand, Spiritual guru Sri Sri Ravishankar, Writer Pico Iyer are a few from south Indian Iyer community alone.
hmf, but if they advertised him as m. night, wouldn’t we all wonder why and perhaps unfairly accuse them or him of trying to hide his origins? after all, they don’t market scorsese as martin or spielberg as simply steven when it would amount to the same thing. using one’s last name, no matter what its origins, is standard practice in most any profession. he obviously wants to be known as m. night shyamalan and that’s how he’s known. you might as well accuse him then of using his own name as an “exotic” ploy. do you use your last name (assuming it’s an “unusual” “monstrous” name) in your daily professional life? if so, can you or the company who hired you be accused of using it for your/their own purposes as an added bonus? if it can happen on a big scale like the entertainment industry, it can also happen on a smaller scale or level.
as for that sci-fi thing, it sounds like they were merely spoofing his penchant for movies with strange twists and the way his mind works. the same way he spoofs himself in that amex ad.
Topcat:
All communities can quote such examples.
All communities can quote such examples.
the proust of the papuans? 🙂
look at the brown winners of nobelz in mathematical sciences. the representation is skewed.
Surely yes. But since the topic of South Indian brahmins had propped up, these gentlemen deserved a mention. As for me, I being neither a south Indian nor a brahmin.
The question is not whether Tamil Brahmin cultures – I use the plural because the community is not totally homogeneous being divided broadly between the Iyers and the Iyengars – are patriarchal (they are) but whether they are more so as compared to other Indian sub-cultures. The evidence on this is lacking. Anyone have any? Note also that culture is not static, so attitudes have changed considerably and continue to change. Somehow, in Western representations of India, “culture” is often treated as something static and unchanging.
Just to clarify, I am a male from the community myself.
Surely yes.
i just scanned the nobel prize winners in physics for the 20th century. two brownz. both iyers. two points is tiny. but the chance of two iyers in a row when their % in the pop is probably on the order of 0.1% is pretty comment-worthy.
Nobel laureattes CV Raman and Subramanyan Chandrashekhar
Sure, South India has a long, strong culture of education and enlightenment. No doubt. People like Ramanujan are once a century occurences. CV Raman and Chrandrashekhar were related. Chandrashekhar’s mother was a serious scholar.
However, let me point out some other Nobel Lauretes from South Asia: Rabindranath Tagore (Bengal), Hargobind Khurana (Punjab), Abdus Salam (an Ahmediya educated in Lahore, undivided India and then later Pakistan), and Amartya Sen (Bengal). It is a mixed bag.
Re: Indian women educated. I know FOBinis from Meerut and other dhura places who quite high up in places like IBM. My mother got her PhD in Chemistry in 1961. She is as North India as it gets. My niece just graduated from Cambridge U. in Computer Science. Her roots are in UP and Delhi.
Thnks for the link. It is a bit mysterious, because IQ’s of that range would not have a sufficient g to master the complexities of IT and all the engineering dominant professions we find these south-S Asian in. That IQ in the low 80’s is, by Lynn et al, typical for ME and Central/South Asia more broadly. Also, the backward people of the central america and the caribbean score around this area. So it is quite a spread from IQ ≥ 80’s to the 135-155 IQ’s required for complex technical studies. I wonder whether the social class of these south-S Asians is representive of south S Asians more generally?
i think that just a bunch of boloney…may be she only goes to board meetings in a sari, but in majority of the pictures on google she is not weating a sari
I wonder whether the social class of these south-S Asians is representive of south S Asians more generally?
american brownz are selection biased. and they aren’t regressing back to a mean of 80 for IQ (i checked father-offspring # of years of college for FOBs and their kids). in other words, there is probably some population stratification here. but, there is some evidence from the UK that brownz tend to close some of the gap with whites when in a european environment (from lynn). but this might be selection biasing too, though not as extreme. data from mauritius, south africa and the carribean suggest lower median IQs than whites, though not necessarly (ie south africa) on the g component (there are other components of variation).
i just scanned the nobel prize winners in physics for the 20th century. two brownz. both iyers.
Dude, you missed Abdus Salam. One of the greatest theoretical physicist, even Chandrashelar would agree.
Abdus Salam was an Ahmediya.
You are missing people Satyen Bose of Bose-Einstein Condensate fame.
Did we mention the enterprising parsi community, a very miniscule population but big shots like the Tatas and Homi Bhabha.
kush, good catch! perhaps he was from a tambram convert family? 🙂
though seriously, sahel is related to bose.
i mean saheli datta.
I utterly disagree. I think that large IQ differences exist, they are ubiquitous and highly heritable. Of course, what you mention is counted in the environmental variance, but that variance taken into account doesn’t amount to very much really. Twin studies, Family and Adoption studies all point to genes being dominant here, AFAIK.
“Homi Bhabha” What a cool name! Parsis have awesome names. Tata!
Did we mention the enterprising parsi community, a very miniscule population but big shots like the Tatas and Homi Bhabha.
Definitely. Also, Zubin Mehta, Godrejs, Wadias (Bombay Dyeing) fame.
I do not believe in %ages but probably Parsees will come on top.
how the fuck did a post about Indra Nooyi turn into a debate about eugenics, relative ethnic superiorities and last names??
LOL.
The Parsis are a community high in my regard for their philanthropy, progressiveness, and enterprise. They have an acute problem that they have to work out within themselves as their emphasis on intra-community marriages (within a small and shrinking population) has led to debilitating diseases. JRD Tata was a giant amongst all the business leaders I’ve met/interacted with.
I don’t see anyone disputing the high presence of successful South Indian women in the professional world. Given everything else remains the same–patriarchical Indian family system, education and accomplishment in other communities as well, etc.–I ask my question again:
What accounts for the high presence of successful South Indian (esp Brahmin) women in the professional world? This is all the more remarkable given they are a microscopic minority in the Indian/world business environment.
In the context of that specific question it is irrelevant whether Padmasree is a Malayali or a Tamil married to a Tamil/Malayali Warrier or Variyer or the presence/absence of success in other communities.
Thanks razib, exactly what I was curious about.
I think there was some controversy relating to last year’s Physics Nobel prize involving E. C. G. Sudarshan of the University of Texas, Austin. I guess some physicists (mostly Indian, so far as I can tell) felt that the prize which went to Roy Glauber should have been shared with Sudarshan. The Indian magazine Frontline reports it here.
I don’t see anyone disputing the high presence of successful South Indian women in the professional world.
i find it plausible, but i think one issue many of us have is that no robust data sets have been presented. i’m not going to dispute an assertion with a few exemplars. you might be right, or you might be wrong.
The genes attribute certain characteristics to a race. Like for example -Jews have probably produced more intellectual thinkers than any other community Einstein, Speilberg et al -Punjabis are more physically strong etc Every race has a unique quality, so no question of racism here
how the fuck did a post about Indra Nooyi turn into a debate about eugenics, relative ethnic superiorities and last names??
I agree.
My theory is any community that is small in numbers in it’s immediate surroundings will usually do better than the more preponderant groups. Whether it’s Sikhs or Parsis in India, Marwaris in Assam, Indians or Jews in America. Many explanations can be given.
My theory is any community that is small in numbers in it’s immediate surroundings will usually do better than the more preponderant groups. Whether it’s Sikhs or Parsis in India, Marwaris in Assam, Indians or Jews in America.
no.
blacks in america? gypsies in europe? indigenous people in mexico?
jilted_manhood – an excellent point about smaller, marginalized groups…one could argue their “disproportionate” success is related to their relative handicap and place in the predominant surroundings.
apu, which is why dalits are so successful in india?
not trying to be a bitch, but the hypothesis needs many more parameters.
The theory about smaller/marginalized groups doesn’t hold up. Innumerable other Indian communities, each small and certainly microscopic in the Indian/world business theater, don’t have the presence the South Indian (Brahmin) women do in the professional world.
Perhaps Indra somewhere has hinted or said something about what contributed to her success…and that can be revealing about the South Indian (Brahmin) community….
razib – you are correct, there is more to the story. one needs to look at the history of a given group and what kind of oppression they faced in the past and how they reacted to it. the 3 groups you mentioned did not find the power – political, social or otherwise – but were larger (as a %age of the national pop) than groups like the Parsees, and really kept distinct identities in more than just commerce.
People like the Parsees, who always believe in blending in completely (see Deepa Mehta’s “Earth” for an interesting discussion of this) and really had a head start in terms of education, family bonds, etc. (and no history of brutal slavery, family tearing, horrible racism, etc. like the 3 groups you mention), are in a different category.
blacks in america? gypsies in europe? indigenous people in mexico?
Razib, I was going to point those aberrations out in my comment. I also should have been more precise – not just smaller in numbers but also people who emigrated voluntarily ( I would consider persecuted people like Parsis in Iran in this category ) from their native lands. Blacks didn’t. On the other hand the recent African immigrants seem to do well in America. The indigenous people didn’t emigrate neither are they a minority in places like Bolivia, Ecuador, Peru or even Mexico
Talking specifically about south Indian brahmin sisters, their professional achievements are due to the fact that they have a high literacy rate. Way too many south bramhin women have atleast an undergraduate degree.
just an my understanding is that zoroastrians in iran (“gadirs” or “iranis”) are also professionals. not as elite as parsis. and iyers do well in tamil nadu and south india. so the voluntary immigrant hypothesis has only so much explanatory value.
(the chinese who emigrate to most of the world are south chinese, especially fujianese mercantile patrilineages, so the ‘voluntary immigrant’ hypothesis has to do with selection biasing)
razib, regarding dalits – government policy has helped them through disproportionate representation in Lok Sabha, etc…unlike the poor in America, the poor in India fucking vote – good on them, regardless of the outcome.