…I can see Sophia’s thigh!
Brimful brings yet ANOTHER brown fugging to our attention! This time, the fuggee is Sophia Hyatt Hayat, whom I am not so familiar with…but like I said before, that’s irrelevant when it comes to a good fugging. It’s totally possible to fug someone you don’t know. Sometimes, it’s even better. Anonymous fugging, if you will. Ah, I’ll stop fugging with you.
Unlike the previously blogged fuggings, this time Jessica was on top of things:
One of my basic rules of thumb is that, whatever you wear, you should make sure that it a) fits and b) covers your bits.
Solid.
And I mean that in the most fundamental way: this is not a screed against halter tops or mini-skirts or even (for once) shorts. I just mean that a mantilla is not a gown, and no one really wants to see your panties.
Stop hey, what’s that sound, everybody look what’s goin’ down…all us South Asians look alike, yaar. Thus, like Matthew Sweet once crooned, “Baby, we’re the same.”
This dress does not look alluring, nor does it make our Sexy Indian Hottie look like a mysterious flamenco dancer, or even like a contender for a role in Zorro 3: Zeta-Jones Doesn’t Do Straight To Video. It makes her look like she forgot part of her outfit.
As my beloved Father would have barked at Ms. Hayat, “GET A PETTICOAT!”I’ll forgive Jessica’s subcontinental confusion because she goes on to discuss something straight out of one of MY rants about kindness, courtesy and etiquette. It’s funny, so I’m quoting the whole thing:
In fact, it reminds me of something I once read on the subject of etiquette, which was that rules for social behavior don’t exist to control people, but rather to make everyone feel comfortable.
EXACTLY. No one sane gives a shit about what fork you use, just stop weirding people out.
I think we’ve all been in a situation where, say, you’re eating a cheeseburger at Hamburger Habit and the sun is shining and the birds are singing and the boy you like called you and your skinny jeans fit and all is right in the world. And you look at the table across from you, and a woman is sitting there in too tight low-rise jeans and SERIOUSLY? You can see her entire butt and thong. And I guarantee you what happens next: every girl at your table reaches back to make sure that her own derriere hasn’t made a break for it, everyone then quietly wonders if she can’t feel the draft, and then everyone can’t stop looking at her thong, but not in a hot way. In, like, a “should I TELL her that her thong is hanging out, or is she doing that on purpose?” kind of way. And then she leaves and everyone is relived.
So save us some social angst, ladies who like to flash your panties on purpose, and cut it out. Because of you, none of us know whether or not the girl at Hamburger Habit is thonging it up on purpose or not, and therefore, we are unable to decide if it would be sisterly to hand her a sweater to tie around her waist, or if that would insult her. And all we really wanted was a cheeseburger.
Well, more like a gardenburger for me…and speaking of, those of you who know me IRL are surely cackling uncontrollably, since I call those…(drumroll please)
Wedgieburgers.
Thank you, I’ll be here all week.
Jai:
Yes Jai, I’m a He…despite my sexual harrassment of Razib. 😉
But thanks for the good advice: get to know someone well, and then smack ’em with some harassmant. 😉
Manju,
Well, a little flirting or dubious joking is okay (within limits), but obviously they need to know that you’re basically a good guy beforehand, which takes a little time sometimes. It’s no different to making shady jokes in front of people we meet/know in the “real world”.
Having read through the various controversial posts on this thread, I think it was just a slight misunderstanding along with probably catching people at the wrong time. Anna is actually a nice person and she does have a good sense of humour — she certainly lets me get away with murder* sometimes — so I guess it’s a matter of being polite to your host and essentially being a good “house guest”. Just basic manners and courtesy and so on. The usual stuff.
*Murder = metaphorically-speaking, in case certain parties are evesdropping here. Please don’t send me to Guantanamo. Although I could pull off looking dashing in an orange jumpsuit. Not sure about the handcuffs though.
Quandifah:
“Oh but it is disrespectful. The 100 years war began that way, King Philip pronounced an edict which a common prince edward III declared as , oh such a drastic bore and before you know it, they invaded England.”
Excellent historical reference, Q! I think it sums up what has happened in this comment thread to what is an amusing post.
here’s another analogy: say you make an enormous feast, and leave an open invitation to your neighbors to come and partake of the food and drink. if you accept that invitation, even if you find the food unpalatable it is considered rude to express your distaste.
I’ve been on this blog a few times. But I don’t remember folks being so edgy in the past. Razib, you should get over it man. And what’s with all the threatening posts.
your opinions doesn’t matter until you have actually walked in someone’s shoes. again, “wisdom” from those who don’t exhibit evidence of ever running a blog themselves. if you can’t consider even the import of placing yourself in someone else’s shoes, you should grow up.
CaliforniaLove
Dude, I said “we could have security cart you out for sexual harassment”. I didn’t say anything about a lawsuit. I was only half serious in that comment, but if Manju really had gotten hostile, well, I’ll just say that I’ve had to call security to kick people out of public venues for being douchebags before.
And don’t call me “sweety”. Thanks.
Wow, Anna and Shruti both really seem extremely conservative, touchy, and uptight. And Shruti’s “Don’t call me babe”, sorry “sweetie” bit was straight out of “Barb Wire”! I personally did not feel any post was that “disrespectful” to be honest, just some fun, given the topic being discussed. I am quire sure Manju would not have said something similar if the post was on 54 children being killed in Lebanon.
I also fail to understand this whole debate on the right of people to call a post “boring”. They have every right to since the blog is a public one and there is space for comments from anyone. If SM bloggers cannot take criticism, they should probably delete comments or just not allow them at all, as some thin skinned bloggers have done. Or, they should have allow comments from a cosy club of people with user authentication, so that all comments are positive and laudatory at all times.
Anna wears see-thru shirts and posts the pics on her blog.
and b4 i get banned just sayin ppl who live in glass houses shldnt throw stonez…
Shan and Brown…your comments on Shruti and Anna are in poor taste. I think they deserve an apology instead of your rants.
Shan: It’s not your right to decide when a woman feels uncomfortable because of someone’s language. It’s my right, however, to call you a douchebag for labeling a woman “uptight” because she had the temerity to ask for a more respectful tone. Anna could have banned him instead of nicely asking for him to stop, if she were as pathetic as you are alleging the bloggers here are.
brown: Anna is not a celebrity. Anna does not walk red carpets. Anna was not blogged about on the world-famous “Go Fug Yourself” website. The point of this post was that Sophia Hayat WAS featured on that very site. You stalked Anna to the point of finding an obscure, long-dead photo album to prove your non-existant point; bored, much? Despite your challenges with reading comprehension, try and grasp the following: bloggers are NOT celebrities. Sophia Hayat? Celebrity. Anna? Not. Bloggers don’t get the same perks as the rich and famous, so they don’t deserve the same headaches, despite what you might think. Personally, I hope she takes those stones and lobs them at you from the stoop of her glass house.
Hmmmm I didn’t mind the pantie shot so much. I enjoy your blog btw, yours and turbanhead are personal favorites right now.
People need to chill the heck out. Especially Razib. Dude, get off your high horse and stfu. Nobody cares how “busy” your life is or how “hard” it is write your blog and also “work”. Wa wa.
I actually care deeply since I can totally relate to all three of those facts, so your use of the term “nobody” is flawed. Also, it’s not about getting off anything equine, the issue is one of expectations: those which are unrealistic vs. those which are realistic.
We have the right to have this dialogue (and some opine that we need to), even the people whom I found slightly deluded insisted upon that. Besides, Razib was correct when he said that it’s almost always someone who isn’t challenged with the same demands on their time who will pipe up to tell us what we do wrong or how we have no right to complain, etc…to which I often feel like replying, “if you haven’t walked a mile in my shoes, STFU, indeed.
This gonna sound real silly but… which girl are you talking about?
I’m fairly sure he’s referring to Sofia “crack-tastic” Hayat. 😉
I knew that..
Besides, Razib was correct when he said that it’s almost always someone who isn’t challenged with the same demands on their time who will pipe up to tell us what we do wrong or how we have no right to complain, etc…to which I often feel like replying, “if you haven’t walked a mile in my shoes, STFU, indeed.
You have a point there. But how do you know who has the time and who hasnt? Just because I’m not writing the blog doesnt mean my life is meaningless and empty and that I’m a worthless bum. Nobody is 100% right all the time (even you bloggers) so try not talk down to your audience. Its like a standup comedian constantly badgering the crowd that came to see him. So what if some guy said the post wwas BORING? People have the right to post whateva the hell they feel like. Dont agree with me? Well then implement a login system and then I’m sure lots of filtering will naturally take place.
Just because I’m not writing the blog doesnt mean my life is meaningless and empty and that I’m a worthless bum. Nobody is 100% right all the time (even you bloggers) so try not talk down to your audience. Its like a standup comedian constantly badgering the crowd that came to see him. So what if some guy said the post wwas BORING? People have the right to post whateva the hell they feel like
1) if all you type is: “this is BORING” that is not constructive criticism. if you ban/abuse/delete them it isn’t “talking down” to them because you are going down to their rather low level. there are plenty of people who post constructive critiques. “this is boring.” or “could you post on X because that seems more important” is not a constructive critique.
2) the analogy to a stand up comic and a blog is weak. comics get paid. you pay to see the comic. and it is by its nature a 1:many relationship. a blog is a many:many relation with primary nodes (the bloggers).
3) no one said that people who don’t blog are worthless bums. that is what you call a “straw man.” but, people who don’t blog seem to be disrespectful toward what a blogger is doing.
people who don’t blog seem to be disrespectful toward what a blogger is doing
let me clarify: P(not a blogger| sneering and bored direspectful critique) approaches 1. that is, people who have their own blogs and use a non-anon handle actually take time out to elucidate their issues, rather than throwing tomatoes as if that adds anything to the conversation.
Some WOMAN said the post was boring and that itself wasn’t a problem; what IS and was problematic is when others try to dictate content, i.e., Sepia Mutiny should post on “X”. In this case, “X” is not immediately a South Asian/diasporic issue, though it is very significant. I think the irritation or anger you witnessed occurred for two reasons:
1) Many bloggers felt like Rammi–the woman who called us “boring”–was attempting to speak for others, when in fact we knew she didn’t. How do we know? Though we get tips all the time, THIS time we received SEVERAL tips about how these famous desis had been fugged. Logically, that means SEVERAL of our readers thought it was mutiny-worthy. Does Rammi get to dictate whether or not we post about something that SEVERAL other people submit to us? No. But my comment is NOT about or personally directed at Rammi so allow me to move on to a more lingering annoyance: this suddenly popular idea that every post which SM offers MUST be palatable to ALL people. Not only is that impossible, it’s as stupid as anti-cellulite ass cream. THAT level of self-centered assholery will not be tolerated. THAT is why people are often advised to scroll on if they don’t like something they are reading. If the rest of us can do it (lemurs and interns, too), then why can’t those who bitch and moan that they don’t like topic “Y” being covered on this site?
2) We actually HAD written two posts about “X”. So now we have a situation where someone is accusing us of something we weren’t guilty of in the first place. Please READ the blog before being so quick to judge it. If you don’t do that, it leads Mutineers to think, “this person actually doesn’t have a point to make, they are just being obnoxious.”
Speaking of, when you combine all of the above with the fact that the person who was complaining was changing “handles” with every comment they left, it is a highly suspect situation. Handle-switching like that often indicates that trollery is afoot. However, I believe Rammi when she says she wasn’t a troll. We DO give people the benefit of our doubt, despite accusations to the contrary.
The reason why so many people DO like us is because we don’t like trolls. Or jerks. Or people who can’t read effectively (or at all, thus making us repeat the same things over and over and over…)
Please stop with this asinine argument “Why don’t you make this a private site just for people who like you because you’re so thin-skinned you can’t take the truth!”. We CAN and DO appreciate the truth, constructive criticism and disagreement. We do not ban or censor people based on a lack of ass-kissing. Got it?
It’s gratifying that when we try and explain why we do things as a courtesy to ALL readers, we get accused of defensiveness and other baseless bovine fecal matter. Enough. Say whatever you want, but DON’T say something stupid.
Anna,
Your analogy about if you haven’t been in my shoes STFU, would preclude us from making any statements about a LOT of things and people we have made statments about on this very blog.
Other than that, I am the one who called your post “boring” and unfortunately am still not convinced about why I shouldn’t have said that, except out of nicety, which frankly I don’t care for. The only thing I should have done in addition to merely stating that it’s boring, is to explain why I thought so, and like someone else said, perhaps add what might have been more interesting at this moment in our collective history. Agreed on that point.
Please, no need for another lecture about me being selfish and thinking about what “I” find boring.
I think we can agree to disagree. Though, I am sure you’d like to have the last word, perhaps to make sure I understand that this is YOUR blog.
Enough said on this topic, as far as I am concerned.
And yet, you still said something.
Who’s up for a nice game of carrom?
TheOriginalRammi:
Are you capable of writing comments which aren’t so…rude? I know, you don’t care for nicety (so rough and tough! like your afro-puff!) and you’ve shown that you are mostly concerned with, well, you but try and understand that THE REST OF US DO LIKE “nicety” and you’re ruining the party for everyone else.
you’re ruining the party for everyone else.
bingo 🙂 me likes non-cranky adminz. gives some breathing room for those with substantive disagreemants.
it isn’t just
anna <-> commenter, itz
anna <-> commenter1 anna <-> commenter2 anna <-> commenter3 anna <-> commenter4 anna <-> commenter5 …and so on
it behooves commenters to realize that even if the dialogue seems two-sided from their end, admins are subject to a lot of simultaneous demands.
Dear SM intern,
Rest assured that I am as far away from being a troll as anyone can be. Infact, since I am not usually one to spend much time on blogs, except this past week, I wasn’t even sure what “troll” meant and just looked it up.
I had to laugh at the suggestion that I might be one.
Did writing that make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside? My goodness, you know an awful lot about me, considering we’ve never met or spent any time together. Ah, I forgot– you dislike “nicety”, so assumptions are easy. My mistake.
If I wanted the last word, I would say something and then CLOSE COMMENTS, something which I obviously haven’t done, since we’re all still here.
Seems like “the who” let the dogs out. again.
But I gotta lean towards him on this. Even though the criticism is unconstructive, this is a light hearted thread, a simple “this is boring” shouldn’t be taken as a thunderbolt thrusted into the heart of man. I understand the difference you illustrate, like between 2 teenagers saying that the movie “sucked” and respected film critics and filmmakers offering the reasons why pacing didn’t work or the score was too moody and overbearing during the death scene. But when the movie they walked out of is say, this one , the plebian criticism all of a sudden has less of an effect.
“I had to laugh at the suggestion that I might be one.”
Couldn’t you have stopped before this last sentence? Granted, on a computer screen one misses the tone and gestures of your comments, but from someone who just read all of these posts, it just seems like you still want to continue the argument- or, like you commented before- have the last word.
It’s not such a bad thing to be nice.
a simple “this is boring” shouldn’t be taken as a thunderbolt thrusted into the heart of man.
sure, but i think context matters. this is a recurring problem which sux up time that could be used to generate content, and yes, community. at the end of the day enough “this is boring” and a blogger getz sick of the petulance and quitz. the long tail unpleasantness adds up.
I feel like either there is a sudden influx of new readers or whatever new readers we do have are just more vocal…which is actually fantastic, there’s nothing we’d love more than for some of the amazing people we’ve met/have yet to meet at meetups to delurk.
I mention newness because it seems like I’m seeing an unusual amount of confusion about the scope of this blog, redundant complaints (which lead to normally serene bloggers losing their patience) and a profound misunderstanding of what we’re trying to do, etc.
It’s so true. Though it’s not accusations of “boring” which make me want to throw in the iBook…
Anna:
This is a very clever line, as you’re simultaneously defending one of your positions while contradicting another. You really know how to bait us pervs.
Damn you. You have mastered the feminine art of the mixed signal, causing paralysis among your admirers. It’s maneuvers like this that are making you such an up and coming celebrity. 😉
Ok, I hear you, you say it’s the straw that broke the camel’s back. I haven’t been around long enough to confirm or deny, so I’ll abstain.
anna, you have a lot of readers. though it does seem to be outsized in relation to your traffic growth. you’ve long had a problem with people not reading your FAQ (i don’t even see you guys refer to it anymore). i think you guys might want to think about SCOOP or something with moderation.
Folks,
Some of you seemed so upset about something so silly. There are plenty of things you can be pissed off about: Lebanon, Palestine, Darfur, Congo, heck, Global warming, child labor…this list can go on for a while. But, you choose to be so very upset over my comment about finding a post boring. Whatever happened to: ‘I may not agree with what you say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it'(Voltaire)
I wouldn’t be bothered if you didn’t agree with the manner or content of what I said, but several criticisms have headed towards a more hardline attitude. I’d love to rip apart some of the arguments I’ve read, but it’s meaningless, and I have much better use for my time.
In any case, it’s been interesting and rather addictive to participate on SM. I wish you all the best. I am particularly appreciative of Abhi and Amardeep for some very interesting posts I’ve seen over the past some time. I’ll be sure to introduce myself if I see you guys somewhere.
I am off for the rest of the summer.
And Curious: Yes, I am quite capable of writing stuff that isn’t rude. It’s been published in over a dozen scholarly journals. I’d love to reveal my identity here, but I resist the temptation for now.
Ciao!
Happy summer to all.
rammi, although my approval is the kiss of death in these circles, i think i love you 🙂
-s
As long as Benazir keeps her “Bhutto” bundled, I have no objections.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Own3d
The pics aren’t exactly classy but her music is fuggin’ terrible. She’s certainly no Anjali. My fave desi lady outdoes her in style, class, and (most definitely) in music. Perhaps a thread on how awesome Anjali is could interest the staidly pretentious.
Moral of the Story: I think the bloggers just want some love!! awwwww…….and no I’m not clownin’…but guys lets keep in mind these guys do seem to bee working pretty hard and for free…..
I thought Rammi’s comment was immature, then I saw yours, Saurav. The former was meaningless, the latter? Disappointing.
I guess you are a fan of the petty and clueless, since the enemy of your enemy is your friend but at the end of the day, your new “love” is nothing but a troll.
Agreed, there’s an entire thread devoted to just that, but bloggers choose to blog, as writers choose to write, and filmmakers choose to make films, etc.. I’ve made a few short films, if I lashed out at every criticism and/or suggestion (regardless of how crude or unconstructive it is) with “Why don’t you do it yourself?!” I’d cause myself a helluva lot of grief (I know it from personal experience)
Is that really what you think we’ve done? Because I can tell you that after two years of creating this, we haven’t. Not even close.
I’m curious if writers (not bloggers) and filmmakers are engaged by their critics as aggressively, closely and frequently as bloggers who, yes, freely choose to do this are? I don’t think so. And I know that no one makes a contribution because they want to be insulted. There is no desire or need for readers to appreciate obsequiously, but it would be more pleasant for all of us if they don’t hate.
This isn’t aimed at or inspired by anyone in particular, but I hope people realize that the Mutiny existed before they discovered it one, two or three months ago. What you might assume is new, might be old and v.v. There might be further context for situations than what you currently know. This is a community with a history which you are the newest part of, sometimes it’s helpful to delve in to that past before making judgments.
Oh no, I didn’t mean it as a charge against this particular blog or anyone here, sorry if it came off that way. I meant it more from the point of view of the creator (citing my personal experience), that expressing sentiments like “I’ve worked hard on this, etc….” doesn’t and will never alleviate criticism, whether it’s constructive, light-hearted, or downright spiteful. What I was trying to convey, was that for me personally, it offered me no solace and only hindered my artistic development to entertain thoughts like “but I’ve put so much effort and no one appreciated…” and so on..
I don’t think so either, I think they’re engaged more aggressively, depending on the viewship, distribution, etc.. Night Shyamalan makes a movie, and it’s up for the entire world to criticize, and while he is getting paid A LOT, I agree, it’s still a truckload of work, effort, sleepless nights, time away from family, sacrifice, etc… And bloggers have another advantage, they can terminate the dialogue as they see fit, which is totally fine, that’s one right I think the bloggers are entitled to, by doing all the groundwork in establishing the forum. But let’s not pretend as if the advantage doesn’t exist.
…which is precisely why I said this.
HMF,
i hope the bloggers won’t take offense, but comparing what they do with what M Night does seems rather hilarious. i mean, anna wrote this post on her lunch hour. i remember once a reader of mine who sent me a private email to the effect that i should work on my prose style, as it would improve the quality of the posts. i responded, “well, if i had time, i would probably reedit some of the material i wrote out in haste.” the correspondent responded that i should make some time, it would help me out in my life over the long haul. i responded that i’d be happy too if they were willing to remunerate me as appropriate compensation, seeing as i had bills to pay and my job compenstated me decently for doing something less interesting than writing. at this point they got a bit huffy. the point is that there is a bigger context here, and too many of the conversations directed at bloggers from readers seem to emerge out of a vacuum where the bloggers in a black box somewhere generating subpar content. therefore, despite the labor of love that this weblog is, it seems ludicrous to me to compare it to something created by a filmaker, who no doubt feels that their art is the raison detre of their life. when making critiques it is important to note just focus on the post in question, but remember the whole person. regular readers will understand the general outlines of the lives of the posters, but new readers often don’t and so they don’t understand how unreasonable or ungrateful their comments seem.
on a distinct note, another issue is that some value is generated by the comments. comments whose primary effect is to simply salve the need to express the opinion of the commenter, but don’t push the dialogue or fun further, add nothing. in fact, their net value is somewhat negative. summed up they start to result in a non-trivial subtraction from the atmosphere which people value.
But that’s not what I was doing, I was stating how big budget, major studio filmmaking is distinct from blogging, and dependent on distribution, makes the individual more susceptible to aggressive criticism.
I’m not sure what you’re implying here. But filmmakers (especially amateur ones) have outside lives as well, including bills and day jobs. Any remembering of the “whole person” should apply here as well. In fact, your contention of a greater emotional connection between a filmmaker and her product should actually make them less of a criticism target by all moral standards – but in fact that’s not the case
that reminds me of a quote from my high-school english teacher: “An essay should be like a woman’s skirt, long enough to cover the subject but short enough to keep it interesting”
HMF,
i’m getting confused by the analogies. but the one i used earlier about a dinner party is probably the one that works best for me. comment boxes are in a gray land between public and private, just like conversation at a dinner party. you are expected to be polite and respect the hosts. if you don’t want to abide by the rules of the hosts, you are expected to leave.
do not feed trollz 🙂 do as i say, not as i do 🙂
Uh. Ok, thanks for clearing that up.
What?
hi my name is reah
i think sophia hyat is another wannabe and she calls herself british pakistani when she’s dressed half naked she should have aleast some respect for herself. She’s lucky she didn’t get killed for that come on sophia have some respect for other british pakistani and no thats not sexy thats disgusting what she wearing.