This week’s edition of Time Magazine includes a cover story about the world’s next great economic superpower: India (via the News Tab). The cover features a worker from the industry that Americans are most familiar with. She is a representative from the ranks of those much abused call center workers. Similar to Manish’s fine entry, The Anatomy of a genre, I thought I’d take a shot at examing the nuances of this cover picture.
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The next time a call center worker calls me about signing up with the Dish Network, I am going to pay a lot more attention…and flirt a little.
DQ: Me too, I think you put it very eloquently.
Here are my thoughts on the politics of misprounciation:
Ok, let’s assume that this is true, even if I disagree. I’m in “educated chic” circles and non ” “, and I haven’t seen this attempt; maybe I don’t hang out in the right circles, but whatever. Anyway, so they try to pronounce French words the correct way. But let me ask you this: when France decided not to back US’ invasion in Iraq, did these same people think in the back of their minds, “Oh, I try hard to pronounce French words, and I think it’s worth listening to the critique of the French why they think this war is unjust?” Or, do they attempt to get to know French society, French speaking countries, the entailing social practices?
Or take Spanish names and words spoken and written in California, where I’m from: “Santa Ana” (Santana), “Santa Rosa” (Saanta Roza), “Santa Barbara” (Saanta Baarb-aara), “burritos” (boorritos), etc. There are lots of white folks who take Spanish in high school, and they too attempt to pronounce things the Spanish way. Now, are the same people seeking to understand the predicament of Latin Americans in Cali? Are they seeking to understand the impact of immigration laws on Latin Americans? Are they conscious or do they respect the history of Latin Americans in California antedating the arrival of the Anglo settlers?
Take our own Desi pronounciation debacle here. If I spend about 15 minutes, persistently insisting the stranger whom I’ve met for the first time in my life that my name is correctly pronounced this way, are they going to understand American Desis, American Desi social practicies, and our experiences, histories, and lives?
My point is, what do you think that are going to be the grander,more significant, and deeper implications that are going to open up by the gesture of someone who’s striving to pronounce your name or linguistic words correctly? Mind you, I am NOT saying that we should replace our names with Anglo names. I ain’t no “Candance”, I’m Cheap Ass Desi. But I think you are harping on a minor, superficial point. Letting people whom you’ve met more than once how your name is pronounced is one thing; it is another when you are introduced to someone for the first time, or are providing your name for data, bureacratic, technical reasons. There are people who pronounce things correctly and still are ignorant of the society, people, and land that they are talking about. Then there are those who may not pronounce things accurately, but would like to enrichen their knowledge about others or have a sensitive understanding. I’ve heard lots of comical bloopers when it comes to misprounciation, but I appreciate the person’s ideas.
Back to original topic: I’m going to write a letter to the editor and ask him why he did not place a hot Desi male call center worker. And then I’m going to sue Time magazine for racism.
CAD:
Have you given any more thought to starting your own blog? Anyone who begins an extensive comment with “Here are my thoughts on the politics of misprounciation (sic)” is ready to write an actual post. 😉
‘I might not speak good Bengali, but my French is excellent’. What does it matter, whether a human being drinks at this well or at that one?
Dharma Queen: One (Bangla) is your mothertongue (or ancestral mothertongue if that’s how you want to view it) and one (francais) is not. In my view, they are not equivalent. I don’t usually blame 2nd genners for not being fluent in their mothertongue since that’s usually the parents fault (I’m a 2nd gen too and I worked hard to regain my fluency as an adult), but I would hope they realize their mothertongue is an important aspect of their cultural heritage, and no other language (French, Spanish, Swahili) can ever replace it. No other language can have the same intimate relationship to you as Bangla does.
Maybe I shouldn’t say it’s the parents fault; let’s say it’s due to circumstances.
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Maybe English is the language that most americans have an “intimate relationship” with…
Why does India become an emerging superpower only when the west thinks so? Why does Bollywood become cool only when the west takes notice. Are we what the westerners want us to be. Do we want to be known as the land of the Booda and Gaendi?
Bottom line: Your name will be mispronounced if you allow it to be.
Is this in response to my offer to hand-deliver hate mail to the editors at Time? Because, uh, that was a joke… not the $5 flaming bags of dog poo, though… that was for real.
Do I need to provide the poo, or is that included in the cost?
Topcatt;
Why does India become an emerging superpower only when the west thinks so? -er, there’s a certain level of objectivity to earnings and growth. If angola declared itself an emerging superpower, it wouldn’t make it one.
Why does Bollywood become cool only when the west takes notice. –I still don’t think its cool. But what is cool is Indians not begging to be part of hollywood, but rather creating their own (larger) industry.
Are we what the westerners want us to be. –No, I sure a few a even scared of us (like the US democatic party in regards to outsourcing). But we certainly were what they wanted us to be back in the days of socialism. Oh, how the western intellectual elite loved us then.
Do we want to be known as the land of the Booda and Gaendi? –why don’t we just settle on land of Manju.
Bottom line: Your name will be mispronounced if you allow it to be –Agreed. Now that’s real empowermant.
The text books in English schools even in India refer to River Ganga as Ganges (pronounced Gyanjes)
funniest comment ever by monseiur T. Catt.
all ye who ponder the l(p)atent racism in mispronounced appellations – or when does a mispronunciation become an epithet -especially those with hindic ancestry – do ponder how you would address someone whose card says “Anbazhagan” – and if you dont produce an “lll” sound you’re doing it all wrong – Three tries only – thank you come again.
“Maybe English is the language that most americans have an “intimate relationship” with…”
I was born and raised in the US. I am a proud American. I speak English FAR better than anything else. For a large portion of my childhood it was probably the only language I could really speak. I will NEVER consider it my mothertongue.
BTW the credit goes to Fink Nottle
I am willing to accept my unpopular ethnic name being mispronounced but not the popular ones like Gandhi, Buddha. Why is the mispronounciation of a westerner acceptable whereas an FOB mispronouncing an english word becomes a joke even for Indians.
Topcat:
As long as the joke is in good spirit, nobody gets offended. Mostly all FOBs had “English medium” instruction in schools. We had our fair share of Shakespeare, Tennyson and Shaw in high school…. we can’t use our desi background as an excuse for mispronouncing English words. If the “joke” is malicious, then its best to avoid those people.
its the cadence, intonation and (lack of grace) that makes it funny from a FOB, who possess (quite often comical) cultural idiosynchracies in the same vein that mullets, white trash, gang bangers, Flava-Flave’s, nerds, herbs, queers, pricks, sissies, queens, primadonnas, brats, bitches, whackos, crooks, thieves, jocks, gym rats, clubbers, screwballs, geeks, dweebs, sluts, pretty boys, marys, juicers, scumbags, prisses, ice queens, hotties and ho’s do.
in fact, if you can’t personally identify yourself with at least three of the above types, then, quite frankly, you bore me to tears. i know i’m at least a half-dozen of some sometimes and perhaps a few of the others othertimes.
DD maybe she doesn’t LOOK like cica, maybe she IS. Have you seen this girl in the same room as cica? No? Well then.
Q.E.D.
I got TEN, bitches. Bow down before my pwnage. 😉
Paraphrased.
Elder sitting on a rope charpai: Puth, tera naam kee haiga? (Son, what’s your name?)
Puth sitting on a mooda : – drawls – Luke Gyay.
Elder: hainn! kee? Lookay? (huh! WTF, Lookay?)
Puth: – a little flustered – Luke Gyaaay!
Elder, to the old fart on the other side of the charpai: -mutter- Hain…? ai kee bol reya hai? (this kid’s talking weird shit man)
Old fart: GHAI!! Oh ho ho!! Thu MaghiRam Ghai da Pota, Lutchu haiga !!! (You are Maghi Ram Ghai’s Grandkid, Latchoo!!! HaHaHa)
Puth: that’s what I said.
To Hairy_d # 218:
That was some funny shit man!!
Nice one hairy_d…hilarious.
Jai – waiting for your post 🙂
Just realised I got carried away and unwittingly said I was ‘born and raised’ in the US…was actually born in India, lived there for 1 year, then lived in Nigeria for 2 years, before moving to America at the ripe old age of 3. Should have just said I was raised in America. My point still stands though.
I just noticed the following Google ad on the website of an Indian weekly newsmagazine:
“Start-up restart time? – Outsourced execs get top results without big egos or politics. marketplan.us”
Perhaps Time will one day feature a cover with some earnest bush-shirt wearing mustachioed Average Jagdish exec, tiffin in hand, alongside a miserable-looking out of work firangi exec hitting the bottle.
I have this uncanny ability to tell a person’s gender, age and lifestyle by reading some posts especially the ones like #215 I am guessing AC is a 40 year young auntiji who has gotten one of her daughters/sisters married to a white guy. Is that right AC? Its just a guess.
I wouldn’t quit the dayjob yet TopCat, it ain’t all that uncanny when you look at AC’s latest post or their blog.
“Bombay. .. formally known as Mumbai”
Time magazine needs a new copyrighter.
perhaps a new copy editor as well…
I think its a little more than lack of knowledge. They were just being disrespectful and contemptuous towards a country and people, that they thought very little of. Same thing is going on with Ahmedejizad’s name. The right wingers always mangle it. Stephen Colbert did a great “peice” on it. He purposely screwed up the pronounciation of Ahmedenizad and inserted a different words into it. It was preety hillarious.
Amitabh,
Your point stands for you. Bengali’s my mothertongue, but I don’t have a more intimate relationship to it than French. I was born and raised in Canada, and started learning French at age five. French conversation is just as interwoven into the fabric of my early memories as is Bengali.
Besides which, if your logic stands, the only person I am doing a disservice to by not speaking good Bengali is myself. I’m not hurting the Bengali language. So why all the self-righteousness, the tendency to ‘blame the parents’, as though you’re talking of a species of delinquency?
At the root of that feeling is an ‘us’ versus ‘them’ mentality, the drive for self-preservation in a people, a loyalty to fences and borders and divisions. My favourite kind of people are the sort – and you find them in every culture, though they’re rare – that are capable of deeply and passionately immersing themselves in a culture that is entirely foreign to them. The root of such passion is a more pure, selfless love.
Finally read the issue of Time. The best article was by Mira Nair. She gets India better than paid journalists. If only she would drop her nasty habit of peppering the dialogues in her Fellini-like movies with four letter words. You don’t need it, Mira.
Dharma Queen:
I realize I’m a bit extreme in my views when it comes to these things (language issues). And why not? When most 2nd genners don’t care about it at all, at least one or two of us here or there should feel passionately about it? Hopefully brings a little balance to the situation. And I did take back my ‘blame the parents’ bit in the very next comment.
You not speaking Bengali is not really doing a disservice to yourself or to the language; I guess my problem is that at a certain point in my life, something ‘clicked’ in my head and I started really appreciating my mothertongue. And I guess in a naive way I expect others to feel the same way. My biggest pet-peeve is not really 2nd genners who don’t speak their language, it’s Indian parents in India who deliberately speak English to their kids and ignore their own language.
I want to address your last point, about your favorite kind of people (those who immerse themselves in entirely foreign cultures). I would add to that: while never forgetting who they are.
At the end of the day, this boils down to each person’s individual opinion. There is a Punjabi verse that I find very beautiful.
Jind Mahi je chaliyon pardes Kade na bhuli apna des Apni boli te apna bhes
Which means:
My beloved if you ever go to foreign lands Never forget your country Your language or your apparel
I am disgusted at people like Ms.CAD who so condescendingly express concern at ‘globalisation’ and ‘exploitation of Indian call center workers’….Yeah right !! 20-22 year olds in India, most of them no hopers from liberal arts colleges, making 25-30,000 rupees per month is ‘exploitation’. You know who hates you most for so kindly pointing out the ‘exploitation of call center workers’ ? The call center workers themselves.
So what if they call themselves ‘Richard’ or ‘Susan’ – whatever is takes to get the job done has to be done. All that matters is the pay packet they get at the beginning of each month.As we say in India, ‘what goes of you’ ?
Needless to say, the Time cover was silly. Why is the lady dressed like a traditional blushing bride ?
Saurav — nice sleuthin.
That is a beautiful verse, Amitabh. I can’t truly relate, though, because (and I think a lot of ABDs feel this) all lands feel foreign to me.
Being a Bengali, I will resort to a folk song to express myself:
Aami ek jajabar Bhulechhi nijer ghar…
(I’m a gypsy, I’ve forgotten my own land…)
Dharma Queen:
Touche. And that was a beautiful Bengali line too. Thanks for engaging.
I have to second Raj on #231. It’s quite shocking how some desi’s can’t seem to take pleasure in obvious success. I guess failed ideologies die hard.
But you know, Raj, those call workers probably don’t know what’s good for them. Unlike us, they have no free will because they suffer from false conciouness; they’re not aware how much they’ve internalized colonial racism. Furthermore, they don’t know that globalization is just neo-colonialization, and they are aiding this racist hegemony especially by virtue of the fact that they are getting richer while the “wretched of the earth” stay poor. Obviously wealth creation creates more inequality and this is a very bad thing…for reasons that are not too clear.
I don’t know if it’s because of a failed ideology. I think it’s because of plain naivete of not knowing the economic conditions of India. It’s better to educate than ridicule..
The “call center” workers work under conditions (assuming false names / accents ) that may not seem palatable to people who grew up in rich societies and have the privilege of choosing work based on interests. But you should keep in mind that the other choices of “call center” workers.. are either “no work” / as a private school teacher / clerical job in a private concern earning 2000 Rs p.m with worse working conditions..
Pankaj: Repeating the same argument over and over again is not helping you position. You have a fair point that Israel is treated with a lot more respect in the American media.. That’s because the people look white, and even more so because of the power of American jews both as a political bloc and in terms of controlling the media. In the future when more Indians are involved with media and government (within the next 15 years) you will see many of the same shifts. That doesn’t mean things will improve for Indians in India, but ABDs will be able to fit their model minority status even better by manipulating their own images, instead of having others do it to them. Your point about your cousins is annoying and asinine, and I for one am tired of hearing it. The very idea that this girl has something to do with your cousins being “cost effecting” or cheapened is so stupid I can’t logically refute it. There is nothing sexual in the picture; it is a pretty desi girl with a headset on. Perhaps it is slightly insulting that the call-center worker has been chosen as the emblem of India, but your connection to your beloved cousins is so abstract that I think you are the only person who could possible see it. You obviously have some major hang up concerning them and are looking to vent. Don’t project your own demons; find something legitamate to criticize such as the continuous comparisons between India and Iran on the civilian nuclear deal People like you only make it harder for the rest of us with some national pride to argue our points rationally.
And before someone points them all out, I’ve noticed the spelling errors. I don’t care, it’s been a long day.
If the call-center worker is being exploited by being paid Rs. 20,000-25,000/month then the same is true for investment bankers (who work more than 14 hrs a days) or for that matter the night-shift doctor. Most people working in call-centers are young college graduates who would get no other (better paying) job with their present credentials. They work for 2-3 yrs at a call-center and then move on to do MBAs/MS etc and get better jobs. If you take the PPP (along with the exchange rate), then it turns out the the salary of a call-center worker is quite adequate..and comparable to a CC worker in US.
Robert:
Don’t confuse “formally” and “formerly”.
nubamountain
200,000 fresh graduates were employed by the IT companies in India (both Indian and MNC) as prgrammers this year. Bet many of them hail from poor or lower middle class families. Many hundred thousand more were hired as call center workers. It is generally the poor or lower middle class that joins call centers.
Your assertion about rising poverty, whether rural or urban, do not stand upto facts – because truth is incomes have tripled and quadrupled in India over the last decade or so. Apart from maybe Bihar and parts of Uttar Pradesh, whole of India has seen vast improvement in the quality of life. Earlier politicians used to promise free rice to the poor get elected. This time, the party that won the election in Tamil Nadu did so by promising free color television sets to the poor.
If you think things are bad in some parts of India, let me assure you things were 100 times worse no more than 10-15 years ago. These days I see illiterate construction workers in Bangalore carrying cell phones.
There are farmer suicides because of inability to pay back debts in rich states like Maharashtra and Andhra Pradesh, but none in poor states like Bihar and UP. Wonder why ? Because prosperity leads to higher expectations, which leads to rising debts…inability to pay the same leads to death. In Bihar – the siatuation is same as it was during the days of socialism, therefore no expectations, no debts, no suicides.
Further – I dont know how many farmers commited suicide in India last year, but I bet it is only a fraction of the number of suicides done by high school students or engineering students in the country after their respective board exams – because their results were not upto expectation.
It is good that the boom reaches 200 million people, if what you say is true. 200 million is quite a number. Almost equal to the US population. So if the said boom has reached such a big number, then I dont see any reason to complain about. The other 1000 million will be employed by this 200 million as maid servants and drivers and gardeners and baby sitters and some as sex slaves. So dont worry.
And yet, the median income of those with no real skills to speak of other than answering telephone calls is Rs 25,000 per month, which is many multiples of the national per capita income. No wonder they are so chronically depressed. Bet they are thankful to you for your concern as well.
India Rising, India Sinking……India is Rising wherever and whenever there is a semblance of free market capitalisn. India is Sinking wherever and whenever lefistism and socialism is the order of the day. Leftist Maoist insurgency as we see in places like Bihar – for instance – is more a root cause of poverty rather than a product of poverty , as you make it out to be.
Most of the middle class people in India that you are so contemptuous of were hardly middle class only 10-15 years ago. They (or their parents) were themselves the ‘wretched poor’ not so long back. My dad was. But he studied hard, got himself a fairly decent education and then a job, and raised himself out of poverty.
The ‘poor’ do not need anybody’s sympathy. They just need equal opportunity which was denied to them for so long because of decades of perverse socialism.
As Larry Kudlow (I love that guy) always says at the beginning of his program on CNBC, ‘Free Market Capitalism is the best way to Prosperity’……….’India Sinking’ can suddenly become ‘India Shining’ , all in a matter of few years. My dad is a living example.
I am a big fan of Prof.Prahalad. Have attended a couple of his excellent lectures on business, finance and boring stuff like that (which he made fascinating).
So its good to know his views on anti-India Islamic fundamentalism and separatism are same as those of mine.A fairly large section of India’s muslims have always been a huge threat to India, same as leftists. Post 9-11 , majority of the non-Islamic world probably agrees with what Prof. Prahalad said on the subject as well.
But the part about hindutwa and capitalism being natural allies is only party true, because aged octagenerian hindutwavaadis such as the RSS leadership live in a world of their own and have not grasped the significance of capitalism. Their economic outlook is not much different from leftists. It is actually the younger smarter hindutvawaadis who see capitalism as an opportunity for their country to prosper rather than as a threat. Fast economic growth is India’s best weapon against leftist extremists and Islamic fundamentalists (and their brothers across the border).
It is also true that majority of India’s IT professionals, engineers are hardcore BJP supporters, as well as big on capitalism.
Why is that do you think ? They are mostly upstarts, hailing from humble middle class or lower middle class families. Most studied in kannada medium or marathi medium schools. So they are unaffected by the pseudo-secular virus that Convent educated elite are afflicted with – you know , sympathetic to Islamic fundamentalism, leftist inclinations , contempt for hindu culture etc., which is considered to be ‘suave’ and ‘sophisticated’ in those circles…….
Middle class India was always passionately hindu at heart. But their voice was not heard and their potential untapped because of decades of Nehruvian socialism during which only the convent educated elite and their kids prospered. Now suddenly, things have changed. With IT/YT and all that, the kids of ghaatis and madrasis have become rich and their voice more voluble.
They may have become rich, understand that capitalism is the best way to prosperity, both for themselves and their country, and yet are passionate about their religion and their culture.
Brown_Fob,
Jai’s father on a good day:
Call Centre worker: Hello, can I speak to Dr X ? (Hah, another Britisher I can swindle) Dr X (Jai’s father): Er, speaking. How can I help you ? (This person has an Indian accent but I don’t know her) Call Centre worker: Hello Dr X. My name is Susan. I’m calling from XYZ Telecom and we’d like to discuss our excellent deal so that you can consider changing to our network (Sh*t, Dr X sounds very authoritative. Maybe I should be calling him “Uncle” too). Dr X: Where are you calling from ? Call Centre worker: I beg your pardon, sir ? Dr X: Are you calling from India ? Call Centre worker: Er, yes I am. Would you like to hear about our excellent deal options ? Dr X: Where in India are you calling from ? Call Centre worker: I’m calling from Bangalore, sir. Dr X: Ahhhhhh, I thought so. I’ve been to Bangalore. Very modern city, beautiful weather. Bangalore is advancing very fast. Call Center worker: Yes it is, sir. We have a large office here. Dr X: Bangalore is becoming very famous for its call centres and IT. You are doing an excellent job and your English is also superb. Very good. Keep it up. Call Centre worker: Oh, thank you sir. I am doing my best. (How nice to be talking to an Indian customer for a change. He seems like a nice friendly Uncle). Dr X: We’re all very proud of you. Thank you very much for calling. Call Centre worker: No problem sir, it’s been nice talking to you. Please visit Bangalore again sometime soon. Dr X: Oh, we definitely will. Goodbye. (Wonderful to be called by someone in India.) Call Centre worker: Goodbye. (Pauses, and realises that Dr Uncle had successfully manouvred the conversation away from the new telephone contract offer. Damn…..)
Jai’s father on a bad day:
Call Centre worker: Hello, can I speak to Dr X ? (Hah, another Britisher I can swindle) Dr X: Speaking (Who the hell is this ?) Call Centre worker: Hello Dr X. My name is Robert. I’m calling from XYZ Telecom and we’d like to discuss our excellent deal so that you can consider changing to our network (Sht, Dr X sounds a bit angry. This is going to be a tough one). Dr X: Where are you calling from ? Call Centre worker: I beg your pardon, sir ? Dr X: Are you calling from India ? Call Centre worker: Er, yes I am. Would you like to hear about our excellent deal options ? Dr X: How did you get this number? Call Centre worker: I’m sorry, sir ? (This isn’t going well). Dr X (now speaking very loudly) : Our telephone number is not publicly listed. How did you get this number ??? Call Centre worker: *Click (Hangs up) Dr X (Grumbling): &^!^&$ badmaash ^%&&&^…….(Calls to Jai’s mother) Another Indian call-centre worker just called us. How do these people get our phone number ? (Muttering) Haraami *&(^(^&^^…….
what may come across as condescension is concern. the problems are much deeper rooted – like why are people who study liberal arts looked at as ‘no hopers’ in india?
and people calling themselves Richard/Susan/Barbie/Ken in a country which has only been independent from colonists for 60 years is a big deal. Heck, I have a whitey name which I was born with and that can be confusing.
I have a cousin who worked for a medical research company for a call centre job for a while, I know that it’s good money but it’s also not a career at all and he personally found it to be very demoralising and is now doing something he loves. jobs with good money also need to be put into a wider context of how beneficial/detrimental they are to people in other ways, and i’m not saying this as a ‘middle class someone who lives in a white country’, i’m saying it as a fellow human being. what is it with indian people who visit this site and bash others for not understanding our culture…wtf else are people on this site trying to do?
Amitabh,
This one might interest/infuriate you. (It sure did infuriate me). English keeps topper away from leading school. A very smart girl was denied admission to a Delhi school due to her poor spoken English school. Somewhere McCaulay is laughing !!!!
Tashie….bet the average call center worker is a lot smarter and more enterprising than you can ever be. Save your unsolicited ‘concern’ for yourself.
Raj, it was excruciating enough that you wrote that egregiously long comment–that’s like dominating a conversation for 90 minutes when others would like to speak– totally bad form. But now you’re insulting others and acting rather douche-like? Strike two, sir…one more and you’re out.
That should be “due to her poor spoken English skills” …. Looks like I may need help with my written English skills 🙂
Thanks, Topcat :). I totally agree: even if my loooong southie name gets mispronounced, oh well, but big names like Gandhi and Buddha…come on! At the very least, those of us who know better should not participate in this wrong-pronounciation. We keep talking about changing attitudes to people of desi origin on this blog: SO, if enough of us just plain SAY “GanDHI” and “BuDDHa” maybe, just maybe other people will say it that way too over time. I know the “DH” is difficult for westerners to say…but even “Gaan-thee” (Gaan-di with a soft d as in “thee” and “thou”) is SO do-able by western tongues.
Dharma Queen
Sure. You see yourself as North American and should feel free to say your name the way you choose :). This is YOUR personal name, not part of the public cultural domain like Buddha and Gandhi. Now, if an ABD was named Gandhi and chose to prounouce it “Gan-dee” I might not be thrilled at the sound, but hey, its his name and his choice!
At the risk of repeating my point :). If “Gandhi” and “Buddhism” were French (or any other culturally ‘hip’ language) I’d bet good money that people would be trying REALLY hard to say those words the ‘right’ way, correcting each other etc…
I’ve heard debates on how to pronounce Sartre, Nietzsche, Simone de Beauvoir correctly…