No, not Dubya — actually the real Humpty Dumpty, who has been banned from government schools in the state of Madhya Pradesh. According to the BBC:
The Madhya Pradesh government has banned the teaching of English nursery rhymes in primary schools to “reduce Western influence” on children.
Indian rhymes will now replace their popular English counterparts.
“There is no need for English rhymes when there are Indian rhymes to infuse patriotism in children,” says state education minister Narrotam Mishra.
He has asked government primary schools from now on to teach Indian rhymes and tales from the life of Ahilya Bai, the legendary ruler credited with building a number of leading temples in India. (link)
Because obviously, Humpty Dumpty is the Trojan Horse of cultural imperialism. Just think of the infamous lines: “All the king’s horses/ and all the king’s men/ couldn’t put Humpty together again.” They seem to suggest the monarchy is incompetent — making the seemingly innocent nursery rhyme into subversive Leftist agit-prop that criticizes the government.
Incidentally, I wonder why Education Minister Narrotam Mishra didn’t cite the fact that Mr. Dumpty is an egg in his decision to ban the him from schools in MP. Isn’t an egg a feminine entity, and isn’t Humpty Dumpty therefore a female in drag — and consequently in probable violation of sections 294 and 377 of the Indian Penal Code?
(Just kidding, yaar. Still, anyone interested in translating ‘Humpty Dumpty’ into Hindi or other South Asian languages for us? Or even in English: can we desi-fy him so perhaps Mr. Mishra might consider reinstating him? If we get some good ones, I will email them to the MP government. (Hint: Start with “Hum pati / dum pati”)
Well, you could call him “Egg man” (unda banda in my horrible transliteration) rather than “Humpty Dumpty” …
This may be a move I actually support drawing on my experiences. I am 28 and lived in India for the most of my life with a liberal dose of English medium education thrown in. It slowly dawns upon me that we had too much western education that studying the mother tongue become optional. To this day I cannot converse/read/write in Tamil as fluently as I do in English (and my fluency in this language too is questionable). Look at it this way: these chaps are going to learn English anyway given that it is the language of international business, science and all that rot; and the only chance they have to hone their skills in the native tongue is to learn it rather well when young. I personally feel that my education would have been more polished if there was more local lang. education when I was in the lower standards (grades/forms).
I also feel you have been too hasty in condemning this move (judging from the tone; apologies if I got it wrong): the same BBC (or links from it) article talk about “Baa Baa Black Sheep” having racial overtones which lead to its ban in English (as in UK) schools and some of the nursery rhymes were actually more violent than television.
Could the government not just desify humpty – turn him into an – I don’t know……what is fragile and breaks easy…..my mother :)- or something along those lines, maybe a bhagi that has been frozen to kryogenic levels…what would we call him or her?
I agree with PGW completely.
PGW, Yes, my post is meant to be humorous though I concede there are some serious issues there.
Firstly, these are government schools, not convent schools. The private schools will continue to do the Humpty Dumpty dance and bleat the Baa Baa chant at will. (The English-speaking people I know in India who don’t speak their mother tongues very well tend to be from the upper classes — so class is clearly an issue.)
Secondly, I don’t think this is meant as a move to prop up Hindi language and literature in the state. From the quotes in the BBC article, it sounds more like a cultural move. In keeping with the broader BJP nationalist ideology, the education minister wants primary education to be derived from local sources.
Thirdly, stuffing Shakespeare and Wordsworth down Indian students’ throats is one thing — but “Humpty Dumpty” is, in my mind, pretty obviously innocuous. Hence my attempt at humor.
In that case, they won’t mind replacing the original text with this Jasper Fforde classic in which Mr. Dumpty is assassinated.
On a more serious note: PGW, I’ve lived outside India all of my life and can read/write/speak Tamil, Hindi, Sanskrit and English pretty well. This arose from personal and parental interest in my knowledge of these languages. Again, go ahead and vilify English, but realize that it is useful to know thy enemy. 🙂
Subtext: Language/culture need not be mutually exclusive.
I don’t know if young children should be protected from the serious violence that is in nursery rhymes. They are, in my opinion, an innoculation against the very real violence that these children will have to face in the world in the future.
In addition, nursery rhymes and fairy tales are among the few remaining links to the folk culture of the past. They also appeal to children’s sense of the fantastic without being anodyne, unlike many things that are made for children today.
How about a laddoo, androgynous in all its sweet and unmistakably desi glory? 🙂 (Even a broken one is yummy.)
…I was once asked to help desify Santa Clause such that he could be used as a vehical for educating desi kids about Hinduism and Indian culture. Of course, I was against this proposition for several reasons and disturbed on multiple levels by the idea of manipulating Santa. India and the South Asian diaspora has such a rich culture, which can’t be confined to textbooks and stories, is best when experienced personally, and doesn’t need to mimic whatever cultural symbols may be popular at the time.
perhaps they should also ban humpty for the jains. you know, since they don’t consume any eggs…
seriously though, in response to:
the article also then goes on to say that the ban was ridiculed by black parents. and also that the research into nursery rhymes by the canadian researchers was “tongue-in-cheek”.
basically, this sort of thing reeks of pandering to the majority on the grounds of religion, which is dangerous. i don’t follow indian politics that much, but it seems that anytime there’s something about the bjp in the western media it’s almost always about this sort of thing. and the party name is always preceded by “hindu nationalist party”.
just wanted to clarify: the quote i mentioned in #9 is from comment #2, not from amardeep’s post.
Answering Maitri, I have noticed that most of the Indian-American families I have met here in the US have had their sons and daughters coached in the Indian languages and customs. This may be a sweeping generalisation, but it seems like the Indians outside India seem to know, care about or be passionate about “Indian Culture”. During my stay here at Berkeley, I have seen more ‘Indian’ shows than I did in India. Perhaps this comes about because parents value this Indian tie and try to impart this to their children. I am guessing that in India parents may see this as the primary function of the school and therefore not be as pro-active as those abroad. My parents never pushed me to learn languages or read the Tamil classics and mine was not an unusual family!
I did not/will not disparage english lang. education and I havn’t the foggiest idea where you got that notion. I was merely suggesting that these fellow are bound to learn it anyway (at the expense of local language).
Again, go ahead and vilify English, but realize that it is useful to know thy enemy. 🙂
enemy?? is that geared toward the British or the language??
I still remember the hindi version I learnt (long after I learnt the english one).
Humpty Dumpty baitha deewar pe Humpty Dumpty gir gaya dhadaam se Raja ke haathi aur raja ke ghode Humpty Dumpty ko kabhi na jode.
On a more serious note, I too regret the overly anglo-centric education I received. I developed an interest in Indian culture only in my 30’s and feel I missed out on a lot. There’s no need to ban english nursery rhymes but regional language rhymes must be given precedence, imo.
PGW, But that’s the diasporic effect for you — everything magnified by distance. Often the “Indian Culture” that NRIs and second-gen Indians worship is a nostalgic, artificial construct that bears no resemblance to the real thing.
I grant that local and folk traditions are often neglected in contemporary India. But this isn’t the way to go about fixing it. If you have viable local or Hindi language alternatives, by all means, add them in alongside the English nursery rhymes. But banning something so commonplace strikes me as a pretty crude measure — like Import Substitution.
Side-note: estimates differ, but last I checked only between 5 and 10 % of people in India actually speak/read functional English.
What ho, PGW, very happy to acknowledge you as a namesake and a fellow mutineer.
Perchance you have noticed a fellow mutineer called Ms. Fink Nottle. I don’t recall Gussie Fink-Nottle having a sister, do you?
Ms. Fink-Nottle, perhaps not Gussie’s sister but maybe his wife? Didn’t he end up marrying Madeleine Basset (I remember it was that stars are god’s daisy chain woman)
Divya, I can’t believe they had a hindi version of humpty dumpty. All we got was macchli jal ki rani hai (I don’t remember anymore 🙂 )
PGW, maybe it was a regional thing but I studied in Punjab till the sixth grade. It seemed like they emphasized Hindi and English almost equally; for instance, we read a Tagore short story translated into English and another one translated into Hindi. They seemed to alternate like that for fifth and sixth grades. Punjabi didn’t get as much attention, but everyone at home spoke it. I learned more Hindi from school. I actually had a lot of trouble with spoken English until I got here. But yeah, all schools are different.
I is Finks vaife, she said coyly. Our eyes met over a newt-bowl one day …
I is Finks vaife, she said coyly. Our eyes met over a newt-bowl one day …
But banning something so commonplace strikes me as a pretty crude measure — like Import Substitution.
There’s a scene in Orhan Pamuk’s Snow where the terrorist named Blue retells (I believe) a tale from A Thousand and One Nights. He informs the narrator that this story was once known throughout the Muslim world – but no longer, it has long since daded from collectd memory. Perhaps Indians are going through something like that. I initially thought that de-Anglicizing India was silly business, eg., changing the name of Bangalore to Bengaluru …until someone pointed out to me that two generations from now, no one will know better, and Bengaluru will seem as natural as the sun.
alas, ms. fink-nottle–I believe that Gussie never did marry Madeline. She married the insufferable bully Roderick Spode (Eulily!)
Amardeep said (#14): “Side-note: estimates differ, but last I checked only between 5 and 10 % of people in India actually speak/read functional English”.
Amardeep, that’s probably true (I’ve heard 11%). But keep in mind that this number will be much higher in a generation, and MUCH MUCH higher in 2-3 generations. Only 3% were competent in English about three decades ago, and supposedly less than 1% when the British left in 1947 (I can not back this up with a source, it is anecdotal). So the numbers are going up exponentially.
More than just the mere percentage, it’s the overall social picture you have to look at. If you go by percentage, then Punjabi is the mothertongue of nearly 50% of Pakistanis; you would think (incorrectly) that it must be an important language there. Yet it has no official recognition, is not taught in schools in ANY CAPACITY (not even as a subject), has extremely limited media outlets, and is looked down upon by many of its own speakers. In urban areas, those who are middle-class or above, OR ASPIRE TO BE middle-class or above, have jettisoned the language completely and do not speak it with their kids. You will often meet people in their 20s and 30s from Lahore who can’t speak Punjabi.
In the case of English in India, there are a whole bunch of entrenched attitudes and social/demographic factors which are poised to continue the expansion of English and the concurrent deterioration of the Indian languages. First of all, English has penetrated the middle-class, it is no longer the preserve of the elites. Not only the middle-class, but anyone who ASPIRES to be middle-class, sees English as a must. As the middle class grows, English in India will too. Those 10% who speak it right now are the powerful, educated, “SHINING INDIA” types, who can participate in the new economy, globalisation, etc. Everyone wants to be in their shoes. So they have an importance and presence far beyond their 10%.
Actually I have a lot more to write on this subject, I don’t think I’ve expressed most of what I’d like to, but this post has gotten too long already. Depending what direction this thread takes, I’ll try to expand later on.
Yup, Neeraja, he didn’t marry Madeleine…he married me or perhaps more accurately, I married him. You know that Gussie, all wish and wash.
Amardeep, not trying to hijack the thread. Will now work diligently on Humpty Dump to atone…
I just IM’d my sister (she knows everything) and Neeraja is right, Madeleine did marry the lingerie peddler (everyone together now, gasp!) Now I think Gussie married an American girl. Emerald Stoker! Finally.
As promised…
Presenting Humpati Tumpatni, the new Heterosexually Correct Contraceptually Challenged Acrobatically Gifted Version…
Humpati Tumpatni baithiyun deewaar Humpathi Tumpatni kar rahe pyaar Daude raja ke ghode, daude raja ke yaar Humpati Tumpatni ka badh raha parivaar.
To be precise,
Presenting Humpati Tumpatni, the new Heterosexually Correct Pornographically enhanced Contraceptually Challenged Acrobatically Gifted Version…
And whats all this nonsense about Madeliene and Stoker. Gussie mera hai, mein Gussie ki.
Welcome move..
They should replace with songs specific to the local culture.. Brits have stopped ruling India for close to 60 years now.. Time to get rid of colonial hangover..
“Humpathi Tumpatni kar rahe pyaar”
Tauba Ms. Fink-Nottle, what would Gussie think? Or for that matter, Little Pinky’s mummy?
Excellent! I’m sure the MP Education Minister will love this one. As will the population control bureaucrats 😉 (btw I like the play on Pati/Patni… very nice)
Divya, thanks. Actually, this version solves the language problem and it’s perfectly rhythmic. And it even keeps the meaning… It’s too bad they can’t just substitute it in place of the English version.
This reminds me of that urban legend from the 70s about Finland “banning” Donald Duck, supposedly for “not wearing pants”.
OK, I do not have the translation of Humpty-Dumpty, but one of my friends did translate the rhyme “Jack and Jill” to Bhojpuri during my undergraduate days in India. The translation goes like this:
“Jackwa or Jillwa, Char gayal hillwa, Panwa lane ke waste. Jackwa gir gayil, Uka sar phut gayil, Jillwa niche awat lurakte hue raaste.”
Regards,
From the quotes in the BBC article, it sounds more like a cultural move. In keeping with the broader BJP nationalist ideology, the education minister wants primary education to be derived from local sources.
What exactly do you find wrong with it? Other than the ex-colonies of the subcontinent, does anyone else derive primary education fof their children differently? I doubt if the French or the Dutch or the Chinese teach Humpty Dumpty to their children, let alone teaching them in a non-mother toungue medium. Are you arguing that the current Indian way is better? If yes, why?
Maharashtra just decided to make English a mandatory 2nd language in all government schools.
And the non-heterosexually-correct version:
Humpati Vohpati baithey romancing Deewar mein Amitabh aaya hai dancing Hijra ke kapde pain ke chalaiya Jumma de, mera bhai, mera maya
(Humbert, Dilbert sittin’ in a tree Amitabh breakin’ like O.D.B. Dressed up all in drag, he shouts Kiss me brutha, right on the mouth)
Gujjubhai, Actually, the French invented Humpty Dumpty! And there is apparently definitely a Swedish version. So yes, the French do use this. (And note that there aren’t nativist Englishmen running around trying to ban Humpty Dumpty because of its foreign origins.)
Since a lot of people clearly aren’t getting the premise behind the joke, let me state it quite directly: Nursery rhymes like Humpty Dumpty are part of India’s heritage now, and erasing them is crass revisionism. And it won’t work: all the Indianizing that has gone on in recent years has mainly resulted in confusion — Flora Fountain is still Flora Fountain (except on the tourist maps), and the vast majority of people say “Bombay” in English at least.
At best it’s just a bureaucratic maneuver — something designed to waste time and distract people from their real problems. In this case they’ve gone after something entirely innocent, which has given children especially a lot of joy over the years. They won’t succeed — Humpty Dumpty will just go underground!
Anyway, everyone (including everyone in China) is dying to learn English for economic reasons, so all this nativist talk is about 30 years out of date. Humpty Dumpty ki jai!
So here’s my pro-globalization, pro-free market, pro-liberalization version of Humpty Dumpty:
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall Waiting for the British Empire to fall When it did, he tried to reprogram his kids But found they only wanted to go to the mall.
The Chinese ARE dying to learn English…they are NOT dying to replace Chinese with it*. Being competent in English does not require making it your mother tongue, and ignoring your own language. I like the Scandinavian model…If you look at Swedish, Danish, etc. youth, they are educated in the medium of the mother tongue, but all end up fluent in English as well. In the Netherlands as well, people speak great English. But (here’s the crucial point) they speak better Dutch.
*That being said, the Chinese do have rather draconian policies in regards to the non-Mandarin varieties of Chinese (regional dialects). They are trying to make Mandarin the only spoken form (as you can see language issues are very important to me).
No one remembers the hindi “aksharmala” (ka kha gha) once they’re through grade 2-3. On the other hand, no one will ever forget ABCDEF for the rest of their lives!
Actually, Humpty Dumpty should be banned in all languages. It is a primitive superstitious rhyme meant to subtextually advance the oppression of women. You see, Humpty Dumpty is an egg, thus representing womanhood in general and the fertility goddess in particular. Humpty Dumpty “sat on a wall,” representing women throughout history and their attempts to escape or see beyond the “wall,” the artificial barriers erected by the patriarchy to oppress and stultify female advancement. Humpty Dumpty then “had a great fall,” alluding to the incredibly sexist Judeo-Christian creation myth and the “fall of Man.” Since the male-hegemonic symbols of “all the King’s horses and all the King’s men couldn’t put Humpty Dumpty back together again,” the supposedly innocuous nursery is really implying that once women have attempted to educate and better themselves and escape the shackles of their injustice and subjection, they are no longer valuable to society as barefoot and pregnant incubators of the next generation of oppressors.
Really, the minister should be congratulated for such a progressive and forward thinking stance on such a critical issue.
Speedy
When we were little, my sister made up something that went something like, “Hey diddle diddle, Ravan played the fiddle, hanuman jumped over the moon.” But I can’t remember how we ended it.
Oy. Flashback: it’s a small world; bangla translation; full elementary school auditorium.
Anyway, I used some poetic license, but here’s the bangla to the best of my ABCD ability:
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall. Humpty Dumpty had a great fall. All the king’s horses and all the king’s men Couldn’t put Humpty together again.
Humpty Dumpty dtheaale boshlo. Humpty Dumpty khoob dthoor porlo. Rajaar shob ghora aar rajaar shob chele, Humpty ke aar aastho parlo naa korthe.
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall When the flag was raised, he heard the call His eggshell was shattered, small fragments of white But his yoke was saffron, so now it’s alright.
=>” Humpty Dumpty ki jai!”
I do not belong to anyone called Humpty Dumpty, regardless of the rumours you may have heard.
And this is why I love discussions of lit – posts #39 and #40. Take a discussion about artificial cultural constructs, and it generates new snippets of creativity.
My earliest memories are of my parents and grandparents sharing literature – my mother paraphrased and edited her English lit favs for my tender ears; my dad shared poetry (mostly western childrens classics), and my grandmother shared her favorites from the Bangla canon.
Reverting just to the vernacular would be like insisting that you and I read desi diasporic fiction only. Oh wait – no, I suppose all I can read is Oklahoma and Texas women’s lit, since that’s primarily been my desh for the last umpteen years.
The French invented Humpty Dumpty, the Dutch speak English better than most Americans and the Chinese will learn English to get competitive. If you want to play ball in/with the west, learn the ways of the west. There’s nothing wrong with learning English and your own mother-tongue (as opposed to Hindi which seems to be fashionable all over India, despite the fact that it’s a baby language). The teaching of language and culture need not be an either-or proposition.
Neither. Read the whole sentence. If you’re going to make an enemy at all, it’s best to know them well.
My attempt at almost-rhyming Tamil poetry:
Umtee Dumtee sevaru la vukanthaan Umtee Dumtee nalaa viyunthaan Raja odai kutharagalum raja odai alugalum Umtee Dumtee vai ottai midayalai thiripiyum
“And it won’t work: all the Indianizing that has gone on in recent years has mainly resulted in confusion — Flora Fountain is still Flora Fountain (except on the tourist maps), and the vast majority of people say “Bombay” in English at least”
Bad example amardeep…..and it wont” work!…goodness so much confidence about it without any statistical comparisons to support it. Why won’t it work? Do you have any justifiable reasons? And as far as Mumbai being called Bombay, that was very much expected. They have changed the name only a few years ago…….it take decades/generations for it to actually happen. So while you are only thinking 10 years from now, the education minister is thinking for the next 10 generations to come!
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall Refused to cooperate, was mutinous and all. All the pucca wogs and all the native folk Marched seawards to salt the colonial yolk.
My parents still miss Desh, although they lament the quality of the present version whenever they go back to Calcutta. We also make snarky couplets at home. I could almost feel that tingle of association when I read the Suitable Boy (although to be fair, ours weren’t quite up to the standards that Seth imparts to the Chatterjees).
Maitri: nice. But of course any Tamil pullavar who was going to put “Umtee Dumtee” into a textbook would insist on it being written in Sentamizh, no?
Umtee Dumtee sevaril utkaarndhaan Umtee Dumtee nandraaka vizhunthaan Rajavin kudiraigalaalum rajavin aankalaalum Umtee Dumteevai ottamudiyavillai thiruppiyum
oops – suvaril = suvattril
Madurai Vivekan, I love your Sentamizh version.
Do the Tamilians care to provide a translation for non-Tamil speakers? Same goes for other languages. Thanks
chandi:
Umtee Dumtee sat on a wall (actually it should be suvattrumel – suvattril = in a wall) Umtee Dumtee nicely fell The king’s horses and king’s men couldn’t stick Umptee Dumtee together again
Do the Tamilians care to provide a translation for non-Tamil speakers? Same goes for other languages. Thanks
This is the funniest post. :-))
Dude, these are translations for the “Humpty Dumpty” poem.
Although with a few errors..
The translation of “King’s men” to “rajavin aankalaalum” sounds very crude..