I’m sure everyone is sick of reading “my parents want me to have an arranged marriage, and I’m like, totally annoyed and stuff” stories in the American papers. Officially I am annoyed by them too, though I actually find these stories curiously addictive even in their predictability — like bad pop songs on the radio, or celebrity gossip.
Sarita James has one of these pieces in the New York Times “matters of the heart” column from the Sunday Style section. Though she initially resisted her parents’ attempts to have her arranged off, at the merry old age of 19 she decided she liked a boy they had picked out for her (he was 26) and got engaged. Even at the time of the engagement, the boy’s family indicated that he still had to “see” two other girls, in order to avoid “formally offending” their families.
So he goes off to India, and doesn’t call for a week or two. Oh oh. The family soon finds out the boy got engaged to an engineer in Bangalore! And Sarita gets these emails:
Dear Sarita, I am so sorry for what happened. I wish I had gotten married to you. Matters were taken out of my control. I want to apologize profusely both to you and your family. Unfortunately, I can never explain what happened.
A second e-mail message, posted five minutes later, read:
Dear Sarita, I regret my indiscretion in that first e-mail. Could you please delete it? Please trust that my apologies are sincere. (link)
The snake! But the explanation is even worse than the content of those emails:
A few years later, I learned that a large dowry had been exchanged as part of his wedding. Most of it had been passed along to his sister’s bridegroom when she was married the same year. Not only had the suitable boy let me down, he had also perpetuated the injustices of the dowry system. (link)
So not only is the boy a flagrant yellow-bellied wus, he’s a sell-out to the dowry system. At the end of the article, Sarita indicates that she’s still single, and she’s not doing the arranged marriage thing anymore. Good for her; hope she never gets an email like that again.
Anyone out there have comparable war stories they want to share (anonymously, if you prefer)? I’m particularly curious about nutty things that happen to people because of the internet.
There are some fourth generation Fijan Desis whose spouses are 1-gen. from the Desh. In fact, the more and more I think I about it, this is a very widespread practice (see my above post). Jai is right: the approach is: “Indian is Indian”, and they see no differences between an Indian born and/or raised in the UK being married off to an Indian from India.
But I think it’s also too strong to say these the culture in question is “an alien culture”. Sure it’s not 100% “native”, but it’s not completely “alien”, either.
I think this whole thing of trying to marry offspring off to spouses handpicked from the Desh may have to do with “transmitting the culture” from the “authentic” source– the Desh. Fear of “watering down the culture” induces some parents to search for their children a bride/groom straight from the homeland (with the kids wholeheartedly agreeing, in some cases).
I may be wrong, though.
^^ I think as much as wanting to transmit culture, there is also a fear on the part of Desi Parents. What if they don’t want to be second class citizens in their own families, and they don’t want to be sitting their speaking in a thick accent or having a funny curry stewing on the stove while Mr and Mrs Normative are clucking clucking about their backward new relations?
I wonder if it drives things as much as any other consideration?
Anyway, as I grow older, I find young girls and lately even younger girls quite attractive. I used to love older women when I was in my late teens and early twenties but not anymore. Are there any other men here who are creeping out themselves?
The half-life, on average, for sexual attraction towards the same partner is about what, two years? After which one must start “imagining” to keep it going; and then eventually the imagining becomes boring too. Many men feel guilty when there eyes start wandering away from their spouse (many don’t); and the women too eventually lose interest.
In the context of marriage, it is important to keep this in mind. People in the West tend to have very high expectations for marriage – soul mates understanding one another, long lasting sexual bliss …when the reality is much much different. The popular culture here perpetuates this myth. That, to my mind, partially explains the very high divorce rates. If you can respect one another, share a few interests, and allow each other space, then you would at least be realistic…
Me thinks that Sarita girl is really ugly coz if she was hot the guy wouldnt have left her….. even if he left her she wouldnt be whining about it coz every hot indian chick always has a backup plan (Backup plan is a guy who the chick uses for a number of purposes right from getting a free ride home to having him pay for her etc) and just when the guy thinks the girl has fallen for her, she goes for an arranged marriage with a “decent” guy usually a well paid guy. Its true, it happens all the time.
Just to my add two-bits re: the difference in parental assumptions in india vs. US. I am an indian born immigrant who came to the US in the 1980s. I went to college in India. Of my college buds, I would say that fully 50% chose their own partners, with a good proportion (25%?) crossing regional/jati/religous lines. And this was in the 80s!!!
So it is kinda shocking to hear some of the stories from american-born desis in the year 2006. Maybe it is something to do with elevated levels of anxiety amongs immigrants? I certainly dont plan to get in the way of my kids in this fashion.
Never got hit with the arranged marriage scenario, except from my dear granny – since my parents’ had a hideous marriage, neither of them were willing to promote the arranged marriage route. So all of Dida’s plans fell on deaf ears. There must be others out there whose parents were arranged marriage victims, and therefore refused to impose that particular model on their kids.
To the cynics out there: there ARE older couples still going at it like rabbits after many, many years. Human beings are occasionally capable of great, long-lasting fidelity and lust (for one object).
I think that’s a tall and wide assumption. I find more in common with my Episcopalian white girlfriend from Minnesota than with my cousins from India in terms of upbringing and values. My girlfriend like me was taught the value of hard work and conservativeness growing up and found no reason to lead a double life unlike my cousins from India who I find are far more progressive in terms of sexuality and deception then anyone I know in the west and are spoilt rotten and lazy. Perhaps because here we never felt the need to because after reading all these above comments and that article (yet another one) I think my parents are just simply super.
I have never experienced the arranged marriage conundrum but to address your assumption that simply trying to understand a parents opinion would automatically garner respect from them is a bit too simplistic. 99.9% of the time it isn’t lack of “understanding their POV” but simply the fact that we disagree. I’m in my 30s I don’t feel the need to agree with my parents on everything nor do I feel my parents need to agree with me on everything. That we do on most issues is a moot issue. I respect their different opinion. The problem occurs when they expect me to follow it. Sometimes my mother who has only learnt of America in her insular visits to her children really doesn’t get that after several decades her children are adults and American. I don’t always expect her to understand and albeit trying to explain often she doesn’t get it. Which is perfectly fine with me. But isn’t always with her.
This is where the “we are Indian and not American” line is liberally used and that line of thinking really dilutes a conversation to unintelligent levels in my opinion. I don’t have a rebuttal to something like that because I find it laughable. I have conveniently pointed out all that is Indian (NOT) about my family in India which they conveniently dismiss as an anomaly.
And that brings me to these famous words uttered by the Fresh Prince of Bel Air “Parents really just don’t understand”…& sometimes you simply just have to stop trying to get them to. Some battles are worth fighting. A vast majority of them are simply not.
Throwing in philosophical laments like “try to put yourself in their shoes” is an inadequate approach to a complex relationship.
Well, the Desi community in the States is largely dispersed all over US cities, not concentrated in one place; some live in “vanilla suburbs” as well. So for some to find a Desi partner, their range of selections might be pretty small (unless you are at a university where you meet a larger number of Desis, ie Desi student clubs on campus).
Yes, the predicament of being an immigrant partially play into some of the arranged marriage stories of ABD’s, but Desis in the Desh have their marriages arranged as well (see response below). I don’t think it’s accurate to attribute the desire to arrange their child’s marriage solely to their status as immigrants.
Not to discount the fact that in India there are people who are choosing their own partners, but let’s not forget that Desi immigrants and Diasporans aren’t the only ones engaging in arranged marriages. As far as I know, most people in India are still having their marriages arranged; and there are plenty of families in India who are willing to arrange marriages with the offspring of Desi Diasporans from all over (for various reasons, namely socio-economic considerations). Also, people in college may be choosing their own partners and crossing caste and regional lines, but those are people who are in college. The majority of Indians aren’t in colleges and concentrated in big metropolitan cities where such a possibility can be easily accessible and feasible.
I’m a 1st gen immigrant here in the US.
Once at a tradeshow, I met a 2nd gen girl whose parents were forcing her to get hitched ‘cos she was just crossed the big three-oh (30) and they couldnt stop reminding her about her ticking biological clock. She proceeded to talk about how difficult it is to get married to a) an Indian in India – who basically looked at her as a green card ticket and could not make the cultural match and b) to an ABCD born here – who are not “ultra-orthodox”, but completely self-aware adults in their own right have such high expectations from a desi girl that this would not work out as well.
The long and short of it is that a perfectly nice girl (mean it in the right sense) is truly confused – in her choices, in her identity and her expectations for her mate. Confronted with a crunch like that what’d you do? Blame your parents?
(groaning) Oh no, I hope this thread isn’t going to veer into 1-gers making sweeping “American Born Desis are Confused as hell” remarks to explain every single phenomenon that occurs within the Indian American community…..
Another thing:
Many 1-gers here are taking the position that in India things are changing, that only Indians abroad and their children are stuck in the old traditional ways, that India is rapidly “progressing” regarding marriages and whatnot, but may I remind you that Indians in India are largely “traditional”?
Like I said, I don’t want to discount the fact that in India, things aren’t changing. Even in my own family in Gujarat and Bombay, I have cousins who have married Bengalis, Punjabis. But 1) they went to college in huge metropolitan cities where there are Indians from all over the Desh and from various backgrounds, and so had the opportunity to meet them and 2) they are still in the minority.
CAD:
Fair enough, i agree that in small towns and villages (gulp!) crossing jati or religous lines is simply not possible. I agree that most marriages in india are arranged (80%?). But the immigrants to the US are mostly college educated. So thats a puzzle to me..
..This is the silliest excuse I’ve come across for two reasons- 1)If indian guys are gc-hungry, then such a hypothesis should be true for indian girls too. Then why do I see so many 1.5, 2nd gens marrying girls from desh (think Madhuri Dixit)? Doesn’t it bother them? .. 2) More realistically, both the green card and the cultural match issues are fungible. The green card question can be addressed by asking the girl if they would ok marrying a desi raised UK or Canada for that matter? If the answer is a yes, then green card is really not an issue but rather its discerning how much love is driven by true emotions vs. the greencard. About the cultural baggage – it took me just 8 weeks of training (when I started as a mgmt consultant) to pick up the american accent and learn the cultural lingo. So such stereotyping (Indian guys are GC-hungry, ABCD guys are conservative) is just an excuse, and betrays a lack of confidence, on the girl’s part, in her own decision-making skills. Anyway, I think I’ve exceeded my word limit and my time for trivial debates for today..I’ll leave with y’all my fav chant… Trust the Bell Curve. Amen.
There’s a lot of arrogance and stubbornness too. This is further bolstered if their social circles also think in the same way and support them in this mindset — or, conversely, if the parents concerned are so ego-driven that they get a further kick out of their own supposed moral superiority (or maintentance of “pure” Indian values) over other people of their generation that they know who may have taken a more liberal stance.
They somehow think that it’s their job to “continue” what they perceive as Indian culture in its unadulterated form.
This of course ignores the fact that there are over a billion Indians currently living back in India, and society over there is not going to collapse if the comparatively small minority of desis consituting the NRI diaspora start “deviating” from certain aspects of subcontinental mores and possibly absorbing elements of Western attitudes and values on a large scale.
Many of them view themselves as literal extensions of Indian subcontinental society — ie, members of the Indian population who happen to live overseas, rather than members of their countries of residency first and foremost.
There’s also an element of selfishness on the part of many Indian mothers who would very strongly prefer a daughter-in-law from India — apart from the usual stereotypes regarding “values” etc (which obviously are not necessarily going to be true in reality, especially these days), they feel a greater degree of kinship with them compared to Western-born Indian women. This is going to be exacerbated if a) the mothers concerned very strongly disapprove of certain aspects of Western culture and/or the behaviour/attitudes of “modern” Western-born Indian women, b) they’ve experienced some kind of problem in this regard with their own daughter(s), and c) if they have no daughters at all and therefore the potential daughter-in-law would fill this void in a surrogate capacity.
Some fathers will also have a bias towards Indian-born desi guys as potential sons-in-law for similar reasons, although the prevalence of actually going through with this is much less common compared to the situation with mothers.
Amongst some quarters of the older generation, it is regarded as a badge of honour (and something to be admired) to be as conservative as possible, especially if a) one is seen to be holding onto to “pure”, “traditional” Indian values [even if their counterparts back in India may not be], and b) one is regarded as having their adult children “under control”.
It is very idealistic but it’s not necessarily a “myth” by any means (assuming you’re lucky and are also “the right person with the right perspn, for the right reasons” — and vice versa). The problem is that this kind of relationship is not regarded as an attainable situation within Indian culture (despite how Bollywood movies portray such matters), especially amongst the older generation, who have — willingly or unwillingly — often compromised their hopes and expectations to such an extent that the notion of the aforementioned ideal being feasible is either an impossibility in their eyes (often due to lack of direct personal experience) or something to be laughably dismissed. There is a difference between being “realistic” and being excessively cynical.
I think that among many of the older generation there’s possibly a fear of “losing their identity” — as an internal psychological issue, not just in relation to being “absorbed” into the wider population with the consequent fear of becoming invisible. Perhaps that feeling of “separateness” has somehow become an inalienable part of their self-identity — and, at least here in the UK, I expect that early experiences (60s & 70s) of feeling rejected and disparaged by the majority white population would certainly have bolstered this attitude. Of course, these days desis are generally accepted as being a part of British society and there has been a degree of cultural osmosis into the majority society too (on both counts, to markedly greater levels than the current situation in the US), but amongst the older generation their previous feelings of “otherness” have often become too entrenched.
There are also other parents who refuse to admit that there is anything significantly wrong with the state of their marriage, and may even impose similar situations on their (adult) children when it comes to them getting married because they either haven’t experienced anything better themselves (and have little direct concept of what a genuinely healthy, compatible, deeply emotional romantic relationship can be like), or even out of a warped sense of jealousy — “I never experienced anything better, so I’m going to ensure that you don’t either”. The latter isn’t always verbalised, of course, but it can be an underlying motivation.
The GC reason is often a mask for the real reason, cultural. Man or women two people from two spheres of life don’t have too much cultural commonality simply because they are brown. But it sounds politically incorrect. How someone is raised and in what culture shapes who someone is and for a lot of people it’s important to be with someone that shares a similar POV about life. Someone born and raised in India may not always totally understand and get someone born and raised in the west. It’s a practical thing but it sets people off and a notion that offends easily so most people rather shy away from it and blame it on the GC hungry folks.
As for why the reverse works more then the other. Culturally women are considered moldable. I’m not making up stuff it’s a fact that Indian culture considers women from India far more moldable then women from the east. Whether this is true or false is a discussion for another direction but that assumption is widely accepted so the environment is more acceptable of men going off and marrying girls from India then vice versa.
And there is one big issue most desis will not touch with a 10 foot pole. Sex. A sexualy experienced woman would not want to marry a man without test driving him. Something not possible in an arranged setup. Whereas for a man it makes little to no difference if a woman has any experience or not. A man would prefer to teach a woman how to please him in the sack, women consider it a turnoff and would rather develop that relationship with someone they make a emotional connection with. Again something that is difficult in a traditional arranged set up.
is very idealistic but it’s not necessarily a “myth” by any means (assuming you’re lucky and are also “the right person with the right perspn, for the right reasons” — and vice versa). The problem is that this kind of relationship is not regarded as an attainable situation within Indian culture (despite how Bollywood movies portray such matters), especially amongst the older generation, who have — willingly or unwillingly — often compromised their hopes and expectations to such an extent that the notion of the aforementioned ideal being feasible is either an impossibility in their eyes (often due to lack of direct personal experience) or something to be laughably dismissed. There is a difference between being “realistic” and being excessively cynical.
I am not denying the possibility of such relationships (and you say there must be luck in finding one), but I question the duration – in intensity – of the type of relationship you describe. If one is looking for this type of love, then serial monogamy -intense relationships lasting two to four years, would probably be a better choice than marriage, which must be made of sterner stuff. The problem with the Western culture currently is that it associates such bouts of intensity with everlastingness. And I will continue to call that assumption a myth. The divorce rate in America is over 50%. Part of the reason is that people have very unrealistic expectations of what a marriage should be.
And also, for all your dismissiveness of Indian parenting (compromised hopes and all that), I hope you will agree that children can mistake “love” for abuse, dependence, a fetish, or lust, and are often unable to detect when they are being manipulated. A good parent (and hopefully good friends) would help a person see through some of these traps which many fall into when they are not completely objective.
Flag on the play. You were making a lot of sense until that line.
Shall I rephrase? A woman can learn to please a man because for a lack of putting it any other way she doesn’t really have to do a whole lot except show up. Everything else can be learned. For a man showing up is just the tip of the iceberg, no puns intended.
Oh people so love that statistic and I can only assume you are using it in comparision to India?? There are no solid statistics out of India about marriage so any assumptions can be made. You an look at the glass half empty and I look at it half full. Divorce rates have only increased because women have become emancipated and self sufficient. Given the opportunity the same will happen in India and has. In the last decade alone divorce rates have tripled and quadrupled in major cities. Why is that? Because people learnt to recognize that it was better to get out of a bad marriage then continue to remain in one. So everytime someone uses the divorce rate in America comparision to talk India up I gotta ask them to take a step back and accept the cultural differences that prevent more divorces from happening in India. It’s a wide and rather silly assumption that the rates are low because marriages are somehow happier there than in the west.
These are the same parents that have often remained in very bad loveless marriages for the “sake of the children”. I’ve lost track of how many such marriages I know in my parents generation. Aren’t you assuming that they know any better about healthy relationships then adult children? Everyone has the potential to screw up, new or old generation. I simply don’t think any one generation is the authority on a good marriage or for that matter any one person could know and define exactly what another adult needs in a good marriage.
HUGE misconception there and it depends on the subset of “men” you are talking about. Men wouldn’t cheat nearly as often as they do if what you were saying was accurate. To believe that any woman can be “trained” to be sufficient for the vast majority of men is kind of sexist. What do you think is the reason that some men go to whores?
Just “showing up” is never enough. Men aren’t just animals looking for a hole.
Like I said, I agree with most of what you said but I think you are getting sidetracked on this.
. You an look at the glass half empty and I look at it half full. Divorce rates have only increased because women have become emancipated and self sufficient.
I never brought India up. And men have become emancipated too. Don’t they initiate divorces in equal numbers. But then, if marriage is so troublesome, why have one in the first place? Serial monogamy may be the answer.
These are the same parents that have often remained in very bad loveless marriages for the “sake of the children”. I’ve lost track of how many such marriages I know in my parents generation. Aren’t you assuming that they know any better about healthy relationships then adult children?
I like my parents 🙂 They never shoved expectations down my throat. I realized they were fully capable of making mistakes. But then, so was I…
I was trying really hard not to get graphic but you are dwelling in the semantics and missing the point. Women with experience seek certain physical requirements from a man. Whether it is the size of the ship or the ocean. A woman with experience wouldn’t want to enter into a wedlock with a man she hasn’t experienced intimacy with because she has already had experience that sets up expectations. By comparision there are no physical requirements of a woman because the ships aren’t so vastly different and they don’t need to “perform” the way a man needs to.
Because marriage is the ultimate seal of approval and acceptance in society. There are a lot of people living in serial monogamy and don’t feel the need to enter into wedlock. However if people seek rights and choose to have children it generally is practical to get married.
So here’s an odd observation about an arranged marriage (completely anecdotal, of course, so it really isn’t that valueable in supporting one stance or another). My parents had an arranged marriage (they were introduced, met a few times first etc). Terrible from the get-go. Yelling and shouting on a regular basis and violence on a semi-regular basis. We’d never really lived in India(we were always there for just a few months at a time), being sort of nomadic until I was 5 at which point we moved to the US. I was always told by my Mom (for as long as I can remember) that I was the reason she was sticking around (‘It’s so you have a real family… you dont want to be from a broken home, do you?’). When I was 10 I went to a boarding school in India(I came back to see my folks for 4 months a year) and I guess fortunately escaped living in a really unhappy place regularly for the next 7 years. I did the college thing (here in the US) and grad school is winding down now. My folks (both here and back in India) have now started dropping hints about what’s next.(I suppose this is where my little tale becomes slightly more relavent to the discussion on this page)My Mom, of all people, who’s lived in a loveless, unhappy (arranged)marriage for the last 26-odd years now starts talking about how she’s going to find me ‘a good Sikh girl’. What.the.fuck. Did she not learn from her own life that this arranged marriage thing is not necessarily all that it’s cracked up to be? Wouldn’t it just be better if I fended for myself to avoid having a situation similar to my folks… hell I rather remain celibate than going through life with a simmering hatred for my assigned partner. Anyway, being 23 the topic hasn’t really come too seriously just yet… just the ocassionaly hint or too… but it still does blow my mind that Mom still seems to have hope, and trusts the system.
However if people seek rights and choose to have children it generally is practical to get married.
And imagine, those loveless Indian parents actually stay in marriages for the sake of their children! 🙂 I think children is a better reason to seek marriage than everlasting love, which can only be ephemeral, what we Hindus call Maya – in short, a myth. But people will go on searching for it … and continue to frustrate themselves watching the once enflamed candle taper into emptiness.
And then they’ll “emancipate.”
Lurker, Exact same story here, my parents who haven’t really gone a month without threatening divorce are now dropping hints about finding a nice sikh boy for me from Desh. After reading your post, the really sad thing was that I was wondering how different (better) it would have been if I had gone to boarding school. I wouldn’t have had to deal with the daily fights. And now, both of my parents want me to have an arranged marriage. Yes, they did give birth to me and raise me and in their words “get me into med school,” but I’ve always wondered when we stop paying back. I don’t want to imagine the conversation I’ll have when I finish school and this topic comes up for real. But trust me, as much as I love and respect my parents (individually), I don’t think that conversation is going to be about love and thankfulness. Call me a thankless ABCD (oh and yes, people have), but I’ve seen too much go way wrong.
Lurker,
Much compassion – reading between the careless lines of your loveless tale, I read some terrible sadness. Can relate – there was shouting and yelling in my parents’ loveless arranged marriage from the get-go, and occasional violence. Unfortunately, I was the only child, was at home and witnessed it all. Only when my mother got me a dog, and I saw him cower against a wall as my parents fought, did I know what I’d gone through myself. And yeah, Risible Invisible, my parents stayed together because of me. I would have done a lot better if they’d split and run after the ‘everlasting love’ you dismiss so easily.
Anyway, we’re all grown up now and responsible for ourselves. Lurker, just please don’t ever let ANYONE manipulate or guilt you -especially your mother, whom you’re probably most sensitive to – into making decisions that aren’t yours…
Yup. This is something even fairly monogamous people in the queer/lgbt community caught on to a long time ago. For emotional purposese, relationships should last until they stop making sense for one or both partners. Of course then (at least for straight people) there’s the prospect of old age alone, so I suppose it depends on the person, their financial and other emotional/social supports, etc.
Sleepy,
In answer to your question – WE NEVER HAVE TO PAY BACK. Why should you pay someone for giving birth to you?? Were you there when that decision was made? Did you tell them to pay for med school, or did they just do it? Do you think they got nothing out of your being born, or out of raising you? Of course they did. They made the decision to have you, and you were a blessing to them. In return, you love them, try to like them, and try your damnednest to respect them. None of that means you have to PAY something, or make decisions that hurt you. What parent worth his or her salt wants to be PAID in that way?
RI I don’t know what to say. I’m sorry you feel so cynical about something so simple has a deep long lasting love. There are plenty of long lasting marriages filled with deep love which began with no magic formula. Some are arranged others were destined. I can’t imagine knocking one way of finding a significant other to prove the other more effective. There is no magic formula.
I’m with you on this one a 100%. My parents were married for 10 years, have been divorced for 26 years, my father remarried for 20 and are friends today including my stepmother and I am always grateful that they chose to walk away from eachother rather then raise screwed up kids.
To Lurker, Sleepy & Gargi…. Please don’t let your parents choices no matter how difficult to understand dictate your choices. Give yourself credit that you will make the right choice for yourself. It’s always difficult to walk away from that baggage and desi society seldom lets you as well. I have lost count how many times I heard as a child “your parents got divorced you will too”. Yes I was a child and I’m glad it’s stopped now that I’m an adult. Mostly because people are afraid what I’d say to them. Of course I’m sure there are people in the community that still say it behind my back. Whatever.
Sleepy, Lurker, and Gargi, 100% agree. It’s far better to leave a hate-filled marriage than to stay ‘for the sake of the children.’ Unless financial independence is an issue, and it was for most women of a certain generation, it’s far better to leave and give the children some hope that a saner relationships are possible.
JOAT, I’ve often wondered if people have done research and produced stats about children of parents who stayed in dysfunctional and abusive relationships. I bet such children grow up with a natural aversion to marriage. But of course, in this age of championing family values the only stats we have are about children of divorced parents.
Chandi, interesting you ask that question. I have a terrible aversion to marriage. I’ve lost two relationships partly because I didn’t want to get married. My last bf, everytime he asked me to marry him, my stomach would clench up, and I’d pick a fight.
I’ve been in one relationship so far and it turned out very badly. It was like taking my parent’s relationship and making it worse. It’s been a year, I’ve moved on to a different place and a different school and I still catch myself wondering how I could have been with someone that made me feel so horrible. So point being, I’m not even sure I know how to be in a healthy relationship, the one closest to me was so messed up. Basically, I don’t want my parents to choose and I don’t trust myself to choose well anymore. I guess it’ll come with time and I don’t think my early twenties is really the time to be panicking, but yeah I think about it.
The “conservatives” will hope for a once in a life time marriage, the “liberals” are aware of their unrealistic expectations from marriage and are prepared for another one if necessary. People inbetween viz conservative upbringing planted in a liberal society have to balance both the worlds.
Lurker wrote:
Sleepy wrote:
Let me play cupid..a nice sikh boy and good sikh girl 😉
Oh of course. But, at least until they drive us all full-fledged down the cliff of contractual monogamy, there will probably be more single LGBT people at older ages than straight people just by dint of the fact that there are more straight peopel with rings on 😉 I could be wrong though–i guess it’s just what i tell myself to keep myself sane.
Janeofalltrades- IMHO, you have an extremely narrow and one-sided view of sexual compatibility. You say “A woman with experience wouldn’t want to enter into a wedlock with a man she hasn’t experienced intimacy with because she has already had experience that sets up expectations.” But you fail to realize the same is true for many, if not most, men. I could just as well say “A man with experience wouldn’t want to enter into a wedlock with a woman he hasn’t experienced intimacy with because he has already had experience that sets up expectations” and it would hold just as true. In fact, this case may be true more often with Indian men/women due to the social stigmas that remain about “reputation” among women- this is definitely an issue with which many ABCD women struggle. The end result being that there are probably more experienced Indian guys out there with inexperienced Indian women than vice versa.
Your definition of sexual compatiblity seems to be: “the size and experience of the male partner”. I believe sexual compatiblity is a much broader issue, and it is definitely a two-way street.
VMN Rao – I appreciate your point (though I disagree many ABCD women ‘struggle’ with their reputations, I think we’re a little beyond that). But yes, men have sexual expectations about women and their performance in bed these days. THANK GOD. Or we’d be reverting to the days when women were supposed to be passive receptacles of mens’ lust etc. Women may think they just have to show up, but they’re sure to disappoint if they do.
“A man with experience wouldn’t want to enter into a wedlock with a woman he hasn’t experienced intimacy with because he has already had experience that sets up expectations”
…and if all of his experiences are with gay guys? Someone looses in this situation.
There are plenty of long lasting marriages filled with deep love which began with no magic formula. Some are arranged others were destined. I can’t imagine knocking one way of finding a significant other to prove the other more effective. There is no magic formula.
JOAT: I know that there are many long lasting, happy marriages. I just believe that the idea of a marriage’s success depending upon something the popular culture calls love is a myth, because the feelings associated with that type of experience tend to be ephemeral for the vast majority of people. The problem with western marriages is that they are premised on finding this type of evarlastingness, which for most is unlikely – and the numbers bear this out. And even proponents of such a system use words like luck to find something that is apparently so breathtakingly simple.
This is not to say that the modern Indian middle-class arranged system is any better. Asking a man or a woman (probably a man in particular) to remain sexless until he is 28 (which is about the time it takes to achieve ‘settled’ status in an industrial society), is very unrealistic. And the 20s can be a very lonely and empty time, because you no longer have the readily available peer groups you had in school and college.
There are plenty of long lasting marriages filled with deep love which began with no magic formula. Some are arranged others were destined. I can’t imagine knocking one way of finding a significant other to prove the other more effective. There is no magic formula.
Loveless affairs are as common as loveless arranged marriages. Wanting to fall in love is different from being in love. Some are lucky to find perfect compatibility, some keep looking their whole life. Even though I might not go for one, I find that my parents’ arranged marriage sacred.
50% of 1st marriages end up in divorce, 60% of second time marriages end up in divorce and 75% of third time marriages end up in divorce. There is the stat for you. If you’ve gotten two divorces in America, don’t bother getting married again cause there is 3/4 chance you’re getting another divorce. JOAT: You are right, culture has more to do with divorce rate than the type of marriage. In America, the divorce rate is high not because everyone has “love marriage”, but because everyone knows that getting a divorce is a very viable option. In India, divorce is starting to be an option, but still life post divorce can be difficult. I’ve seen so many arranged marriages among ABCD’s in america end up in divorce. Its not because the arranged marriages failed them, its because they failed in marriage. Chances are their marriages would have failed regardless of the type of marriage they had. Does it really matter? no. All that matters is that you are happy regardless of whether you’re married or not. That is the American way of thinking.
funkydesi, I keep hearing that people get divorced because it’s easy and there is no respect for marriage etc etc. Maybe there are people like that, maybe American culture (whatever that is) promotes the idea that divorce is easy etc. But from my point of view, that sounds terribly judgemental. Among my friends and family, both Indian and American, I don’t know of a single person who thought divorce was a great idea or didn’t work really hard at making things work. It can be a brave, mature, and sensible decision to end something that is causing wreckage all around. I’ve always thought it’s a lazy way out to blame people for just being bad, misguided, and immoral rather than taking a look at why marriage as an institution has come under so much pressure. And most people who say divorce is on the rise because people don’t respect marriage have neither been married nor divorced.
Chandi, I didn’t say that ppl think divorce is a great idea, i believe i said its a viable option. I’m married, never been divorced(nor do i plan on it). If i got divorced, it would be a great disappointment to me and my spouse. If i was in India, it would be an out right tragedy. I have a cousin in India who is divorced, she is looking at living the rest of her life alone.
It can be a brave, mature, and sensible decision to end something that is causing wreckage all around The question I have to ask is this. How does someone who has “fallen in love” and got married to a person they’ve spent time with before marriage get into a relation ship that is “causing wreckage all around”? After all isn’t that the argument given by people who are against arranged marriage? Again i’m not agains any type of marriage, its not the type of marriage that measures success, but the people involved in it.
Funkydesi,
The naivete in your question is astounding. People fall in love with the wrong people all the time. Especially when you’re young, how are you to know whether you are looking for the right things or not? Some people fall for appearance, or charm, or wit, without looking at the whole person. Or they fall in love with someone who becomes a different, very wrong person later on in life (ie can’t handle responsibility, cheats repeatedly, starts to abuse drugs/alcohol, gambles, beats his spouse, verbally/emotionally abuses spouse/children). In India, these situations were handled by telling the woman it was her responsibility to stay, adapt, take it, and be abused. Women here (and there, now) are not swallowing that gigantic load of horse manure any more. They now have the means and the freedom to move on and grow with a different person, or alone if need be. However – as Chandi notes, most people do not go through the carnage of divorce eagerly, and will work extremely hard and long to avoid it.
Your question reveals either an utter lack of experience or an utter lack of compassion.
Your question reveals either an utter lack of experience or an utter lack of compassion. Thankyou. Guess you know what i’m about. I didn’t talk about anyone here and don’t see a reason personal attack like that. I was trying to make a point… which was that cultural upbringing has a lot to do with views on marriage and divorce.
Or they fall in love with someone who becomes a different, very wrong person later on in life (ie can’t handle responsibility, cheats repeatedly, starts to abuse drugs/alcohol, gambles, beats his spouse, verbally/emotionally abuses spouse/children). In India, these situations were handled by telling the woman it was her responsibility to stay, adapt, take it, and be abused. Women here (and there, now) are not swallowing that gigantic load of horse manure any more. They now have the means and the freedom to move on and grow with a different person, or alone if need be.
You are right guys are such disguesting idiots!!! they are 100% responsible, even if all the statistics point otherwise.
Wet towels can kill marriage and so can leaving the toilet seat up. Talk about working hard to avoid divorce.
Ofcouse the idea is that the girls in India put up with shitty men which explains the low divorce rate. The girls here don’t put up with such Horse manure so the divorce rate is where it should be. Good!! you win.
Ofcouse the idea is that the girls in India put up with shitty men which explains the low divorce rate. The girls here don’t put up with such Horse manure so the divorce rate is where it should be. Good!! you win.
The same holds good for men in India putting up with “women who dont shave their moustache” just for their kids.
The same holds good for men in India putting up with “women who dont shave their moustache” just for their kids.
LOL watch out.. someone might say that you have utter lack of experience or an utter lack of compassion.