I’m sure everyone is sick of reading “my parents want me to have an arranged marriage, and I’m like, totally annoyed and stuff” stories in the American papers. Officially I am annoyed by them too, though I actually find these stories curiously addictive even in their predictability — like bad pop songs on the radio, or celebrity gossip.
Sarita James has one of these pieces in the New York Times “matters of the heart” column from the Sunday Style section. Though she initially resisted her parents’ attempts to have her arranged off, at the merry old age of 19 she decided she liked a boy they had picked out for her (he was 26) and got engaged. Even at the time of the engagement, the boy’s family indicated that he still had to “see” two other girls, in order to avoid “formally offending” their families.
So he goes off to India, and doesn’t call for a week or two. Oh oh. The family soon finds out the boy got engaged to an engineer in Bangalore! And Sarita gets these emails:
Dear Sarita, I am so sorry for what happened. I wish I had gotten married to you. Matters were taken out of my control. I want to apologize profusely both to you and your family. Unfortunately, I can never explain what happened.
A second e-mail message, posted five minutes later, read:
Dear Sarita, I regret my indiscretion in that first e-mail. Could you please delete it? Please trust that my apologies are sincere. (link)
The snake! But the explanation is even worse than the content of those emails:
A few years later, I learned that a large dowry had been exchanged as part of his wedding. Most of it had been passed along to his sister’s bridegroom when she was married the same year. Not only had the suitable boy let me down, he had also perpetuated the injustices of the dowry system. (link)
So not only is the boy a flagrant yellow-bellied wus, he’s a sell-out to the dowry system. At the end of the article, Sarita indicates that she’s still single, and she’s not doing the arranged marriage thing anymore. Good for her; hope she never gets an email like that again.
Anyone out there have comparable war stories they want to share (anonymously, if you prefer)? I’m particularly curious about nutty things that happen to people because of the internet.
OK seriously as i said in comment #90 DESIDANCER>>>>>>>> please read
” I arranged it myself”……that line is a hit hah! I will use that one too!
I have paid so much to Uncle Sam than even an average american……but no citizenship! As they say, work hard….a lot of people on welfare depend on you! Anyway citizenship is irrelevant……I think it is your cultural heritage is what determines you.
Jai- come on dude, you’re desi and we’re good at Maths. Put 2 and 2 together 😉
So sorry, Jeet beta, but the instructor is also already married. I suggest you arrange yourself with somebody single!
Jeet, yaar, see my Comment #82. Main pehle se shaadi shuda re.
I think America (the beacon of “freedom”) should try to get these poor south asian women, who are stuck in arranged marraige, out of their life of, highest income, highest education level, lowest divorce rate and other such malaise. Freedom is on the march .. errr… I should say Freedom get off your lazy ass and get on the march. Save these poor women … If nothing works, use 2000 pound cluster bombs …. It has worked so far in Iraq… So many women “freed” over there !!! What about right here at home (and may be in South Asia ..too ..lage hathon(while we are at it) ) 🙂
WHERE?!?!
my wife’s a total bitch (and these are her words, not mine …hi honey, i know you’re reading this), who, due to my own paranoia and state of questionable mental wellness, i think, has had sexual relations with far more men than i’ve been lead to believe … “Pinky, why you little devil!! I’ve only seen that maneuver just once, and that too in the only porn ever produced when Peter North XXXXXX that other guy’s XXXXXXX. You’re filled with all sorts of surprises for someoen who’s never reached first base!!! kiss kiss“
cook-what!?
her baby, please let’s go eat out tonight! me: we just went to dinner LAST night her i know, but tomorrow’s Monday and you’ll be busy all week …acha, theek hein, i’ll cook then me: WAIT. NO. GET READY, I’LL START THE CAR her no, your’e right. i’ll try something new! me: you mean like you did last week when you BURNED THE KITCHEN DOWN because you forgot about the flame-engulfed roti that sat on the tava for two hours because you were talking to your mom?! her hehe, you think you are soooo funny hehe haha. here, i will make a list of things for you to buy at the market. and don’t delay like you did last time talking to the gas station wala! chi!! hurry back!
clean-who?
her yaar i miss my servants tooo much. i’m so happy you’re good at this cleaning business me: (pulling the power cord from the vacuum cleaner) i can imagine, but think of the sense of accomplishment after housecleaning. it’s one of those small things that makes you feel good after doing it her i only feel that way when you buy jewelry for me pout me: ha ha, oh, c’mon.
her no, i’m ABSOLUTELY SERIOUS. me: eye roll well i’ve got a Burger King crown you can wear as a tiara while you help clean the dishes if it helps. now let’s MOVE. her: hehe you think you’re sooo funnny all the time. i’ll show you funny when you come close and try to have sex with me tonight!!
what can i say. she’s crazy and i’m a sadist.
and yes, it was an arranged marriage, unlike my elder sister who married the whitest man mother nature was capable of putting on God’s green Earth.
nahiiiiiiiiiiiiiii….lol another failed attempt, oh well….
.
tell that to some desis who are willing to renounce everything desi for an opportunity in Amreeka
In the early 60’s, only one-in-10 black families was divorced and only 1-in-20 had out-of-wedlock births.
“The movie came out in 1967.
Today (since the early 90’s), 6-in-10 black marriages end in divorce, 65%+ black teen pregancies are recorded and 70% of Black children grow up in single-mother households.
Over the same time period, white/latino rates have increased at a much lower rate.
Is there a link?”
Moornam, I really don’t understand the point you’re trying to make. I brought up a movie about inter racial marriage to illustrate something about the whole brown family guilt/obligation thing that makes people do what they’re parents want them to do even if it goes against what’s best for them. First off I want to know where you’re getting these statistics from, second of all are you saying that arranged marriages is the way to avoid teen pregnancy and divorce? I’m not trying to be an ass, I really just don’t understand what your point is, please clarify…
AC LMAO, and that too at work… your personal stories are hilarious..plz keep sharing
I think there arent any left, esp in india where its kind of sexual revolution going on
This is an interesting board. I guess I don’t know how I feel. seems like you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Someone I used to know in college wrote an article about this, it talks more about how the arranged marriage system developed
http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00002707&channel=university%20ave&start=0&end=9&chapter=1&page=1
tell that to some desis who are willing to renounce everything desi for an opportunity in Amreeka
Jeet….More then that I need to tell this to people who think they are americans just because they were born here. Atleast the former can go back to India if things dont work out here but fo rthe latter….its like hanging in the middle….na ghar ka na ghat ka!
I think all the “real Americans” were born on the moon :-))
Man, this one has to be the most ignorant comment in a while.
107 AC
dont you mean masochist and not sadist?
bongdongs married men always refer to themselves in third person. Hence sadist
Those people that were born here are really american….same with the white people. Some Europeans immigrated here. They had children. the children are white americans. Some brown people came over here. They had kids. Those kids are brown americans.
Puccahindustani, Are you joking? This is the silliest logic I’ve heard. Of course parents arent “FORCING” anything, but they make you so uncomfortable by bringing it up every 5 damn seconds that you do it just to shut them up. It’s like this. we all use cellphones now, none of us could imagine living without it now. especially women, dear god. anyway, but, if you’re, say over the age of 25, you went through entire college years without a cell. and you survived. Its the same thing, most parents are married, and have been married for 20 years by the time they start pimping their kids on the biodata market. They can’t conceive of a life without marriage.
and don’t come at me with this “merely setting up” crap. The friend/colleague comparison is total hogwash. My guess is your friend/colleague isn’t as emotionally connected as your parents are, so a lateral setup is TOTALLY different then a parental one.
Now if you succeeded then bully for you. Its like someone splitting 10’s on a blackjack hand, and winning both of them then saying, “splitting 10s is the best thing to do!”
Echoing other’s thoughts- the way one ‘chooses’ to marry(arranged or otherwise) is driven by their personality. I, for one, would not prefer the arranged route simply because I trust my own decisions. However, this kind of confidence is moot when you keep running up (like I do) against provincial attitudes. I can’t remember the number of times my ABCD “leads” have gone cold bcos I’m not a gujju or a punjabi or a christian or even a vegetarian. So maybe I’ll pick up that phone and get some help to meet someone fun! You can call it arranged if you want, I don’t care.
So…here is how is you keep your folks happy: desi guy goes to India with non_indian gf . His Mum says – “next time please bring an Indian gf” desi guy goes to India with indian gf . His Mum says – “next time please bring an Indian gf from our community” desi guy goes to India with bf . His Mum says – “next time please bring a gf”
This is funny and relevant here:
http://in.news.yahoo.com/060602/48/64rc4.html
“To sell myself in the matrimonial market, I had diligently drafted a matrimonial advertisement. As it happened it did work. It helped me to eventually change my marital status.
For some strange reason my wife kept a paper clipping of that ad in her bank locker. At first I thought she may have done this in order to preserve a fond souvenir – a testimony of her deep affection for me. But later she explained that her intention was really to use it as arsenal, should she wish to terminate our relationship in a court of law!”
Orthodox jews, amish and many other “american” groups participate in family-oriented marriage rituals. The key to the whole thing is the avoidance of coercion, and giving young people time and space to decide. This latter aspect is what makes some of the indian “arranged marriage” situations undesiranble.
It is amusing to see that people assume that “american-style” marriage is based on “freedom”. I think there are exceptional strong forces in the US that shape attitudes and expectations. Some of them are quite as unfortunate as some of the worst aspects of indian “arranged” marriage.
The majority of white guys I know restrict their interest to north european blonds. Compared to their language and behavior when discussing their preference for such women, the indian prejudice for “fair skin” is a mild one. Many relationships and marriages are shaped by extreme forms of consumerism (“get the big house in the burbs”) or careerism (“both of us are top lawyers”). Lets compare apples to apples, and not compare arranged marriage to some american fantasy….
Who says matrimonial ads don’t work? Sarita James has drafted a quite detailed one and convinced the NYT to run it prominently – how’s that for product placement?
I agree with my husband-be-be, brown_fob. The days of meeting the person you are going to spend the rest of your life with only on your shaadi day are over (largely).
I am not against arranged marriages. As long as both parties have the individual agency to choose what they want in the end, then it’s fine.
Regarding arranged marriages vs. love marriages: I’ve seen plenty of unhappy arranged marriages, but then I’ve seen a lot of unhappy love marriages as well.
I also hear those of who you are groaning under the heavy weight of the “getting too late” lectures from parents, uncles and aunties. Last time I was home for Christmas Break, it was truly unbelievable to see just how much marriage is a common denominator in Desi society, whether in the Desh or in the Diaspora. I couldn’t wait to come back to my apartment which is far, far away from the whole kutumb 🙂
What is all this marriage nonsense? Just find someone nice and settle down. They’re our lives, not our parents’, and we’re going to have to deal with the consequences on our choices. Additionally, you really think they’re going to be happier with you if you succumb to their pressure and then get a divorce 3 years later?
Incidentally, there’s a good story in Royal Ghosts called “Father, Daughter” about this issue of parental disapproval of marital choices.
well those who think that AM are a sole concept of India only… well there is something for their knowledge … here is a documentary shot by National Geographic photographer Jodi Cobb http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0602/feature2/multimedia.html it tells abt China (look at the section called ‘Bride Shopping’) where men interview …and yes I mean interview.. … this Taiwanese man is interviewing Chinese girls while other are waiting in other rooms waiting for their turn…so this dowry thing is not there only in India but China and other countries as well…. in India atleast this is not so short… there is intro and then some time for courtship before the consummation of marriage ….. here everything is finalised in 10 mins!!
watch the whole documentary it provides some food for thought…
A Story:
When I was about 17, my mom sweetly asked me out of the blue one day, “CAD, beta, do you remember Anjali Auntie’s son, the one who you met in Baroda? Back in 1985?”
In 1985, when I was six years old and the first time I went to India, my mother wanted to pay a visit to her best friend, Anjali Auntie, and brought me along with her. Anjali Auntie and her family lived in a crowded town where cows lazily sauntered by the myriad of cars, taxis, and bicylces and goats darted about the vehicles. The family lived in a sorts of barn in the city. The “barn”‘s exterior looked like any other apartment complex in the city, but once you knock and enter, one sees three stories: the first floor is a veritable barn, and the second floor has all of the bedrooms, kitchen, etc, and the third floor is an open roof, where one can sleep during hot summer nights. The barn contained two cows, numerous baby goats running around, and a couple of chickens.
My memories of Anjali Aunty’s son– who was two years older than I am– were of us playing in the barn, grabbing the horns of the goats and laughing diabolically, chasing the chickens, and getting rope burns from having slid down the rope that hung in the barn.
So I asked my mother, “Why do you ask?” She hesitantly replied, “Well, he’s in medical school right now in India….” to which I responded, “And….?????”. My mother, no longer able to contain herself, burst out excitedly, “Do you want to marry him?! Shall I call Anjali Aunty?!” I looked at her and I said “No, Mom”. “But why beta?! He’s going to be a doctor!!!” I just glared at her and said, “No”.
Every once in a while, she resentfully remminds me of Anjali Auntie’s son: “Do you know that he’s married now? Treats his wife really nice. They live in a nice big house….if only you hadn’t put up all this naatak…
Scary thread. Seems like I got more freedom to do whatever I wanted to, from my small town Indian parents than some of you South Asian American folks here. I need to convince myself that having kids here in North America is way too expensive. Not worth when there are huge chances that they will be calling you f’in nuts in 20 years.
Going back to Desi Goth Manifesto:
Are the Do what’s right for you and Cultivate your own future ideals considered GOTH, because it defies the history of South Asians socially- and culturally-accepting (suggesting? creating? forcing?) arranged marriages, thus supporting independent thought?
Or is it the I want my parents to arrange my marriage, etc., because it contrasts the ABCD* (read: modern?) perception and lifestyle, if you will, on the subject…?
Neeraja? 😉
*Excuse me for referring back to this label, but being a 2nd-generation Indian myself, I find that people seem to at least grasp and recognize this branding. (Is placing recognize and branding in the same sentence redundant?)
Why would Indian parents in America (India) want to “marry off” their daughters or sons with someone who’s alien to American (Indian) culture…say someone like Anjali aunty’s son back in Gujarat
the only people who truly suffer in “arranged marriages” are the children of those
marriagesarrangements where the couple was unsuccessful in creating a nurturing child-friendly environment where they were able to communicate effectively beyond discussions of weather and menu items and whereby such fundamental incompatabilities were sought to be vindicated through raising EXCELLENT, TOP-CLASS KIDS. I mean, you gotta focus your attentions on SOMETHING, right – and your spouse sure as hell could give a rip about your personal philosophies, but perhaps the kids can (and will) care!i’ve heard a handful of stories of “…so we had kids, thinking it would improve our marriage and BRING US CLOSER TOGETHER” from WASP/American couples. I think the same holds true for desis, but it’s rhetorical — which may be worse.
The “C”onfusion is the 20/30-something fallout of this unfortunate slice of our generation.
One could go so far as to consider such haphazardly placed “good intentions” as child abuse.
Where is the Child Protective Service ?? I mean all these abused kids of “arranged marraige” must be saved the same way Florida wanted to save this baby
Orthodox jews, amish and many other “american” groups participate in family-oriented marriage rituals. The key to the whole thing is the avoidance of coercion, and giving young people time and space to decide.
Anyone notice that when it comes to marriage, not all browns are made alike.
In order of most likely to marry out:
1) South Indian Brahmins 2) Bengalis 3) Malyalees 4) All other South Indians 5) Punjabis 5) Sindhis 6) Gujaratis
Gujuratis are also most likely to speak the mother tongue two or even three generations out. They seem, on average, less rebellious than other South Asians, and comfortable in both worlds. Many SI Americans and Bengalis are complete headcases. This might have to do with stifling, ultra-orthodox parenting and the inability to relate to the Bollywood/Hindi “culture.”
Well, this must be the most popular post to receive comments on SM.
comments on previous comments:
(#42) Kesh – oh, wow! (#55) MoorNam – wonderful! (#57) Sugunam – “Holy S$%t (#69) you GO Girl!!! (#107) AC – LOL!!!
Now, let’s throw some spice into the conversation.
How do things work out when the “suitable boy” is actually GAY, insists he’s really “bi” and submits to his /mother’s wishes?
I appreciate the fact that there is no Social Security system in India, and that the son is expected to take care of aged parents… (and working in the field he’s in, he will make mucho rupees)
one more thing…
I want to thank all of you for sharing your thoughts, hopes, desires (and what’s funny)with this Gora guy. I started reading Sepia Mutiny a year ago to try to understand what the “Brown” community deals with and experiences. I work at a NY University, and have to say that range of topics, issues, and many good leads to Bollywood movies/soundtracks has always been welcome.
I leave next Tuesday for my first visit (of 20 days) to India (for the above-mentioned’s wedding). I have had more vaccinations this past year in preparation for this trip, have more drugs at my disposal (and have to take) than I can count, more advice than most can imagine, and yet – I AM looking forward to it. You guys have helped me prepare for a totally new experience, and for that, I am very grateful to the Sepia crew, past, and present. Love you guys – a Gora Indiophile
La gustibus non disputendum….. (u don’t argue with taste)in latin
For those of you who don’t like Arranged marriage… good For those of you who don’t like “love” marriage… good
The thing that irritates me is all this parents bashing! So the parents should invest all their time and money raising kids with no expectations? Relationships are like bank accounts, you only get back what you invest in it. Most of our desi parents invest a LOT in us and when its time for a little bit of withdrawal they get “”are you f’in nuts?”
And of course I appreciate my parent’s hard work, sacrifice, ya da ya da ya da. But at the same time that is no reason why I should be obey every ruling out of their mouths. Respect is a 2 way street — parents should respect the opinion of their children and the decisions they make regarding their personal lives
ya you appreciate it… but don’t seem to respect it. In my personal experience…my parents have done more for me than what my american counter parts got from their parents. Parents will respect the opinion of their kids as long as they feel like their kids understand their opinions. Try that technique… might change your relationship a little bit.
And then there was the lovely dentist gal from Gurgaon. An angelic complexion of smooth, fair skin and ruddy red patches in just the right places
Fair skin!
Anyway, as I grow older, I find young girls and lately even younger girls quite attractive. I used to love older women when I was in my late teens and early twenties but not anymore. Are there any other men here who are creeping out themselves?
not an indian male,
but as a young layday you’re creeping me out!
also single guy: our parents are not nuts, our life experiences often are! it’s not that people have less freedom growing up in western countries, it’s that we have do have to navigate our own path between too much freedom and not enough.
also immigrant parents from all cultures put a lot of faith/hope/guilt into their kids. so it probably compounds the sense of duty that many feel to fulfil their parent’s wishes.
How did he ruin his life by his marriage? No one has a guarantee if marriage is going to work out, so what if he got an extra pocket money along the way? And why is a 19-yr old getting married?
Also, I think someone said that Indian marriages are like having a blind-date. No, it isn’t. It’s a full blown bachelor- bachelorette system.
And don’t hate on arrange marriages, after all what will happened with the anti-social engrs? Huh? Think about them!? =)
The problem begins when anything short of unquestioning obedience to parent’s opinions is perceived as ‘disrespect’ or lack of ‘understanding’, as is often the case in many Indian society or families.
I have not had to face the arranged marriage scene yet, but I do sympathize with people who’ve had to use the ‘fuckin nuts’ tone with their parents. It usually comes after a lot of other less aggressive approaches because there is no other way out. Believe me, an Indian mom can nag/guilt-trip you down to death to get what she wants and sometimes that becomes the only remaining way you can do what you think is right for yourself.
Also, as Indians (whether 1,1.5 or 2-gen) we do not necessarily have the benefit of having parents with similar life experiences to us. I am a 1-gen, I followed my parents advice for several years after I came to the US, but slowly began to recognize that it was not working for me, because they were not acquainted or did not understand the cultural and lifestyle differences between the two countries. There are points when I have to decide for myself based on the circumstances I am in, and that does lead to conflicts.
This is truly insightful. Do you have a PhD in moronic comments or just an MA in stereotyping?
Beware the wrath of the Bong mafia!
Word.
baleful glance at RI
single guy:
This is not the first time I have heard this comment. It may very well be, given that South Asian societies are continuously evolving and changing (like all societies), whereas many Desi parents came from India years ago; and if there haven’t been periodic visits so as to witness the constant changes back in the Desh, in many cases they seem to carry a somewhat ossified version of India (insert South Asian country here). Incidentally, I have also heard many aunties remark distastefully– after having come back from their first visit to India in years– that “our girls here in America are more Indian than the girls back home”.
funkydesi:
This is fair enough. However, have you seen some of the ways in which Desi parents completely use this concept to force their kids to do things that are going to ultimately make them truly miserable and unhappy? Sure, respecting parents for having given you life and raising you is not to be dismissed and disrespected. But I don’t believe that parents have the right to be so selfish as to emotionally blackmail their kids– by throwing it back in their face saying “Oh, we did so much for you and this is how you pay me back?”– to do things that make the parents, not the kids’, happier. There is a limit to parental behavior too, once the child reaches a certain level of age and maturity. Any parent uses “We gave you birth and shelter, now you have to do this” as a weapon is kind of mean, in my opinion.
brown_fob:
Very good question 🙂 Especially in light of the fact that it happens often, and not only between India-US, but the entire global desi shaadi network: UK-India, India-Kenya, Kenya-UK, etc.
I’m telling you, it’s both fascinating, repelling, and incredulous, the extent that marriage is a common denominator in Desi cultures. I don’t know about all of you, but from my experiences– friends, relatives, acquaintances– the topic of marriage and matchmaking is discussed ad nauseum. Aunties sit with endless cups of chai discussing who is next on the list, or what a certain so and so is looking for in a potential mate, who the potential mates could be, etc. Then they call so and so and initiate the whole cupid process. This kind of talk isn’t limited to auntiejis, but to unclejis as well.
Specific to the Diaspora, one would tend to think that the diasporas may lose certain social practices over time, but not so in the South Asian Diaspora. If anything, matchmaking has been cranked up 10 notches due to the Internet, and now there are global matchmaking webs that are hooking up people faster than the “Love Connection”.
Many Indian parents refuse to acknowledge the fact that the younger people concerned are actually from different countries. In their view, “Indian is Indian”. Any Western mindsets or attitudes which may potentially cause conflict in the viability of the “match” are either ignored or are expected to be changed/suppressed.
Maybe there’s a transatlantic difference at work here, but the situation here in the UK is very different indeed. 2nd-Generation Punjabis and Pakistanis tend to speak their mother tongue far more commonly than Gujaratis here do; in some ways they’re also more traditional than their Gujarati counterparts, especially compared to some of the younger women who tend to be the most Westernised of all desi groups (very broadly speaking).
CAD, “This is fair enough. However, have you seen some of the ways in which Desi parents completely use this concept to force their kids to do things that are going to ultimately make them truly miserable and unhappy? Sure, respecting parents for having given you life and raising you is not to be dismissed and disrespected. But I don’t believe that parents have the right to be so selfish as to emotionally blackmail their kids– by throwing it back in their face saying “Oh, we did so much for you and this is how you pay me back?”– to do things that make the parents, not the kids’, happier.” Does this happen? yes. But, my opinion, it happens when the kids don’t take the parents opinions into consideration. The times i’ve seen it happen are mostly in my friends case when they decide that they were marrying girls from different races. There are’nt a lot of ppl in this world who would accept inter racial marriages. Even some white ppl(usually considered liberal) i know gave a hard time to their daughter who decided to marry some one who was “African American.” The guy was a nice guy, but her parents couldn’t accept that concept. Easy to pile it all on the parents, but the fault lies in one of two things. 1. Lack of communication 2. Fear of communication
CAD, I think you are right. Ironically, I found middle-class desi women much more empowered back home–when they were not stuck with a traditional spouse–and as society has continuously evolved. On the other hand, insular desi cultures in the US and UK have often freaked me out.
132. Why do you think SI Brahmins are most likely to marry out? Just curious what’s your reasoning. I am married to one, and my husband is the only one in his entire extended clan who didn’t marry his first cousin. And my ma-in-law has been so traumatized at his marrying out of the community that she has tried to do everything in her power to turn me into a traditional Tamil DIL, which, if you knew me, is very very funny.
And an exact opposite happened with one of my closest buddies 😀 – He was in India, and the girls parents came from NYC to India – the girls parents met the boy, boy and girl liked each other, everything was happy-happy and all that. Why, they even got engaged, and my friend was madly in love with the girl…. Until one fine day, after 6 months of engagement (their marriage was another 2 months away and everything was planned out), she emailed him and told him, she’s marrying someone else…and she’s breaking the engagement. Apparently the guy whom she got married to turned out to be another guy from desh, but a “richer” party, whom unfortunately my friend’s family sorta knew.
…And we think it just happenes to ABCD females. I think that the female who broke with my friend was a wuss and a cheapskate too. And I am glad they didnt marry hehe 🙂
suyog
Ah yes, this is an old whipping horse that I have ridden quite often. So much so that recently I seemed to have morphed into an apologist for arranged marriages, especially when older ‘firangis’ associated with an international students & locals friendship organization in this city, smirkingly ask me, ‘So Mr. S, are you going to have an arranged marriage too?” when the issue of marriage comes up. Then I am almost tempted to turn racist/ sarcastic, and riposte, “Madames & Sirs, unless any your progney mates with me, an exotic animal, yes, I will have to resort to such strange rites.” I also half tempted to recite this poem to them in order to explain such irrationality of the natives.
That said, I think Ms. James’s article, if not exactly revelatory, was superior to this other recent article on the same subject that was recently sent to me by a friend. And if you want to read, here lies my rejoinder to that latter article.
Beware the wrath of the Bong mafia!
ooh
Maybe there’s a transatlantic difference at work here, but the situation here in the UK is very different indeed. 2nd-Generation Punjabis and Pakistanis tend to speak their mother tongue far more commonly than Gujaratis here do; in some ways they’re also more traditional than their Gujarati counterparts, especially compared to some of the younger women who tend to be the most Westernised of all desi groups (very broadly speaking).
This might be because a large portion of the Gujurati diaspora in the UK is from East Africa. But East African Gujaratis still often speak Gujurati – many generations removed from Gujurat.
Why do you think SI Brahmins are most likely to marry out? Just curious what’s your reasoning.
Those born here, not from India.
I am married to one, and my husband is the only one in his entire extended clan who didn’t marry his first cousin. And my ma-in-law has been so traumatized at his marrying out of the community that she has tried to do everything in her power to turn me into a traditional Tamil DIL, which, if you knew me, is very very funny.
You’ve summarized my reasoning. Ultra-orthodox and stifling, no?
fundydesi:
I also think it is too easy to pile everything on the children as well. The fault doesn’t always like with “lack or fear” of communication– because often times, “communication” with Desi parents means “disrespect”. And “taking their parents’ opinion into consideration” ususally translates as “obedience”, or “Do as I say”. How can you expect your grown child of, say, 30 years old, to do this? I’ve seen some who are 32, 33 who have been mentally manhandled by their parents into marrying their father’s best friend’s daughter in the UK and then get divorced at the most a year later.
I also think you are confusing parents giving advice, ie concerned about their childrens’ welfare, and parents literally emotionally blackmailing their children to force them into doing things they don’t want to, all because “we gave you birth and shelter”. This is a ridiculous weapon to use against children. The sperm and ovum that went into making that child didn’t jump and scream up and down “Fertilize me! Fertilize me! Give me birth and shelter!” Parents decide (usually) to have kids, and they should be prepared to accept that at one point in their lives, their grown children will take paths not always favorable to the parents (and “favorable” here I mean anything that goes against the wishes of parents, and this could mean anything– from choosing a major in college that doesn’t sit well with parents, to marrying someone they chose).
Now that I think about it, many Desi parents that I know are quite unwielding and difficult to budge because they are very, very set in their ways(but not all, there are some who are truly the opposite).
NOTE: I am basing my opinions on observations. I’m not making an argument.
chandi:
Tell me about it. I feel you on this one.
Risible Invisible:
Do you really think your stereotypes are that accurate?
i think commenting on marriage is a way for people to opine about other people, which we all love to do
I have vaunted to be saying another thing, but I can’t find the thread for it. But the discussion was had as to where the bomb-ass desi guys were, in light of the number of bomb-ass desi women. Me thinks thou doth protest too much!
And also it does seem like Desi Kids in India are more free than Desi kids out here in terms of cultural dating norms