I’m sure everyone is sick of reading “my parents want me to have an arranged marriage, and I’m like, totally annoyed and stuff” stories in the American papers. Officially I am annoyed by them too, though I actually find these stories curiously addictive even in their predictability — like bad pop songs on the radio, or celebrity gossip.
Sarita James has one of these pieces in the New York Times “matters of the heart” column from the Sunday Style section. Though she initially resisted her parents’ attempts to have her arranged off, at the merry old age of 19 she decided she liked a boy they had picked out for her (he was 26) and got engaged. Even at the time of the engagement, the boy’s family indicated that he still had to “see” two other girls, in order to avoid “formally offending” their families.
So he goes off to India, and doesn’t call for a week or two. Oh oh. The family soon finds out the boy got engaged to an engineer in Bangalore! And Sarita gets these emails:
Dear Sarita, I am so sorry for what happened. I wish I had gotten married to you. Matters were taken out of my control. I want to apologize profusely both to you and your family. Unfortunately, I can never explain what happened.
A second e-mail message, posted five minutes later, read:
Dear Sarita, I regret my indiscretion in that first e-mail. Could you please delete it? Please trust that my apologies are sincere. (link)
The snake! But the explanation is even worse than the content of those emails:
A few years later, I learned that a large dowry had been exchanged as part of his wedding. Most of it had been passed along to his sister’s bridegroom when she was married the same year. Not only had the suitable boy let me down, he had also perpetuated the injustices of the dowry system. (link)
So not only is the boy a flagrant yellow-bellied wus, he’s a sell-out to the dowry system. At the end of the article, Sarita indicates that she’s still single, and she’s not doing the arranged marriage thing anymore. Good for her; hope she never gets an email like that again.
Anyone out there have comparable war stories they want to share (anonymously, if you prefer)? I’m particularly curious about nutty things that happen to people because of the internet.
I’m not across the board opposed to arranged marriage, but have yet to personally know of a case where there wasn’t the usual coercion techniques applied. And the only way out of the box, in my opinion, is to first think for yourself and then work hard at living your own life (it’s not easy to erase all those years of manipulation).
Here’s an example of what’s typical. The woman (mid/late 20’s) who writes this blog is looking forward to an escape abroad to get away from her parents and their marriage manipulations. Read the post titled, “Who needs Guantanamo Bay.” Her blog is filled with stuff like this.
I don’t know the statistics, but IF it turns out that arranged marriages have a lower divorce rate than love marriages, one big factor will be that those who go in for arranged marriages usually fit into a more ‘conventional’* (for lack of a better word) setup (more amenable to Indian family set-up and social mores, perhaps less opportunity to meet eligible people, perhaps more dependent emotionally on parents etc). Someone like this is also usually more inclined to STAY in the marriage — not necessarily because they are happy in it, but because the same reasons that made them go into the marriage prevent them from leaving it.
*For the record, I am aware that lots of intelligent, free-thinking individuals are not opposed to their parents finding them a mate — if the mate the parents come up with fits your needs, why not at least give the person a chance…it might well be someone you’d have picked yourself :)!
I think both love and arranged marriages can work just fine.
absolutgcs:
Yes, but you can still be POLITE to your parents. Phrases like “are you f’in nuts?” seem totally wrong to me. It’s probably the parents fault that their kid feels comfortable to talk to them like that. I don’t have kids, but if I do in the future, I’d like to think I’d support their choice in lifepartner…however, I’d never tolerate being spoken to in that way.
Amardeep, Thanks for your insightful and thoughtful comments. Does anyone else remember this? Prince Charles whined after his divorce that he was forced into marrying Di because mummyji wanted good bhirgin bride from good phaimly to produce heirs to the throne. I thought it was hilarious that the prince was complaining about being forced into an arranged marriage. Knotty issue, this. Marriages can succeed or fail for any number of reasons. I am suspicious of arranged marriages because of the unspoken traditional expectations that come with it. The grounds for negotiation between two people is overdetermined. Everyone gets in your business and no one lets you become an emotional adult. This may not be true any more in a changed social situation. The other part of this is that many of the folks who grew up in the US might not remember this, but in India, dowry was connected to the most horrendous murders of women, many of them educated women, who weren’t able to walk out of these ‘traditional’ situations. This was in the 80s, and I was in college. I don’t think dowry is merely a wedding gift. It’s a coercive, exploitative, crass social custom that gets tied to self-respect and social status. It has made fathers incur lifelong debt, and perpetuates the idea that you are compensating the groom for taking away the woman who will now be maintained by him. and I feel very strongly that it should be resisted by all enligtened people. There was a story all over the Indian and international media a year ago of a woman who refused to marry someone right before the wedding because he was putting pressure on her father to give more dowry. It turned into a huge melodrama, and she got hundreds of proposals from admiring men, which was, of course, duly reported in the international press as well.
absolutgs/browndalicious,
Try not to fly off the handle.
It’s not your general objection to arranged marriage that I oppose (who am I to oppose your personal choice in life?). It’s the way you convey that message to your parents that makes me cringe. These are the thoughts that go to my mind:
In your 20+ years on this planet, you have not developed an effective method of communicating with your parents. You start off with guns blazing. Which probably means that…
…Your parents have failed to listen to you. Most likely because, they themselves have done little to assimilate into mainstream American society. Their movie tastes do not go beyond Bollywood/Z-TV. Their religion does not go beyond temples. They have probably done little digging around to understand what makes this country tick. They don’t even know what Calvinism is. They think Libertarian is a type of Librarian. Which means…
You really grew up in a household where the doors and windows were shut to outside influences. But thanks to school/college, you got a chance to get out of the stifling environment. You saw a world which was different from your house, and in the excitement, you completely disregarded much of the good which was in your house. Which is probably why you use the f-word with your parents.
In any case, that’s why you became an abCd (that’s C in capital letters). You think opposing arranged marriages will liberate you. But if someone asks you – liberate you from what?, the only answer you have is – parents.
As for your parents, in their 50+ years on this planet, they did not develop a means to communicate with an American living in their house. I’m not necessarily letting them off the hook, but at the end of the day, they try to do what they think is best for you. So…
Develop a way of communicating. I have many ABC relatives who have diplomatically told their parents that if they need any help with marriage, parents are the first people they would turn to. And their parents have accepted that. (The same relatives have slowly started realizing the positive attributes of arranged marriage). When parents don’t force things down their children’s throats, why would the children gag?
M. Nam
A point of clarification, “are you f’in nuts?” followed many YEARS of polite variations of “I’m not interested.” The respectful approach we Brownies tend to have with our elders isn’t a bad thing, except when it enables coercion and other forms of abuse.
So here’s the perspective of a divorced male.
I was introduced to someone by my sister. She was in India, me in California. We corresponded for over a year and explored the concept of getting married. I went to India for my green-card interview. She knew I was coming over and wanted to meet me. We met, I proposed, she accepted, we informed parents, and we got married. As I look back, part of what compelled me to propose was the ticking green-card interview date: getting married before meant she can come back with me; else, she (or anyone else I married outside the US) would have to wait, potentially several years, before joining me.
Once she got her green card and came to this country the abuse began. Once the children were born her abuses worsened for her friends told her she will get “custody.” With friends like that who needs… Once I achieved financial success her abuses worsened more. Her friends told her she will get 50%+ She got her citizenship and moved out a month later under some vague pretext. Long story short, family physician recommended I divorce and found me an attorney. In divorce court she claimed the marriage was “arranged” and suggesting she was coerced, manipulated, and the Indian system was very cruel to women when it comes to marital choices. Ex was diagnosed with personality disorders and ordered by court to therapy for domestic violence and such. I ended up learning about and working myself out of a pattern of codependency/tolerating abuse.
So…where can I write this up for others to read to balance the Sarita James and others of her ilk?
M Nam
I just read your lengthy assumptions about my upbringing and you can’t be further off the mark. Of my parents and their desi friends, mine were by far the most liberal. I used to bring GF’s home in highschool and continued through college. My mother, so full of lovable contradictions, even let us sleep in the same room together. Go figure…
Meanwhile, I saw many of my Brownie friends simply choose to live a dual life. One in the eyes of their parents, another the way they chose. I didn’t go that route.
But, I can see how my way of communicating with my parents seems harsh to you. Keep in mind it’s only because more polite forms conducted over many years had no effect. However, in the end increasing the volume/brashness wasn’t the solution either. I finally realized it was ME that was enabling their behavior.
My expecting them to stop behaving as they were was equally irrational as their expectation for me to suddenly become a spineless lemming with respect to decisions about my life.
p.s. My relationship with the ‘rents has never been better.
Sugunam…
wow…Thats a lot of pain to go through. I hope you got custody of your kids
Re #52 above, I’m not saying that people in arranged marriages are happier than those in loue marriages, but simply that those in arranged marriages are perhaps less likely to fight to end the marriage…and perhaps less likely to even question how ‘happy’ they are in their marriage.
I remember an uncle telling me that the concept of love (between man and wife), as understood in the west, does not really exist in India at all — the relationship between man and wife is more familial, societal, bound with things like duty and roles etc. So you end up ‘edjusting’ (now how often have we girls heard that word!!!) a lot more…which, within reasonable limits, is not such a bad thing.
The perpetual fascination with the arranged v/s love marriage debate, enjoying the rich life off ur first gen parent’s hard work and then ridiculing their ways.. getting into Mass Comm … and cribbing about geeky desi nerds in engineering —-> Is this a stereotype of a second generation desi? Yes it is… And this piece is just another brick in the wall.
I am sure this isn’t really the case. Yet… I wonder.
absolutgcs – well said. I’d have been more keen about exploring arranged marriages, had it been presented as a possible option, rather than the only one. I went through a few years of trying to work through my parents’ fear-fueled hysterics and ultimatums before I finally made my choice. They were heartbroken, but I made sure they understood that 1) I wasn’t doing anything to “punish” them, 2) Had honestly heard and considered everything they’d said to me, even when things were really tough, 3) Was truly sorry that they were upset, but was going ahead with my decision anyway because I knew it was what was right for me, and 4) My door would always be open.
And do you know what? They came around and embraced her as if she were their own daughter. We’ve celebrated our first wedding anniversary this week and things with my parents have never been better (She’s on the phone with them more than I am). It was anything but quick and easy, but I have no regrets about taking control of my life. I always knew that my folks were doing/saying what they did out of love, reflecting the ideas that they knew best. We’ve all learned a lot in the past few years.
Sometimes, love (of the family kind) really can conquer all.
sure.
do you want to hear about “Cold Feet 2001 – Where Were You?” when from out-of-the-blue I get a call from a lass I met — we’ll call her “Shivani” — who said “don’t worry about those emails I’d sent earlier about how I didn’t find you attractive and that we had absolutely no chemistry because I thought about it and I’m like 90% sure I want to marry you [and because my mother found out that I wasn’t so ready for marriage and SCHOOLED MY ASS for having rejected the notion in the first place behind her back.. .chemistry’s overrated anyway!]”
Or maybe the sweet girl from St. Xavier’s who’d just finished her Poli-sci degree and was quick to speak unabashedly of her purported “wildness” and how she loved to go clubbing on weekends when no sooner was her enthusiasm squelched when her mom barged in to tout her daughter’s homely strengths and explain to the rest that “Anuja” was “coached” all throughout her schooling as her mother LIVED WITH HER THE WHOLE TIME. uh oh, Spaghettios!
And then there was the lovely dentist gal from Gurgaon. An angelic complexion of smooth, fair skin and ruddy red patches in just the right places. she spoke with grace and aplomb; a sincerity in the tone of her voice you tend to associate with that one friend whom you’ve trusted your whole life but then snappily asked, “IF WE GOT MARRIED WOULD IT BE ON K1 FIANCEE VISA OR K3 SPOUSE VISA?! I NEED TO KNOW.” I’ve seen some real dick-wilting stuff in my time but c’mon now [although, jokes aside, things like citizenship, greencards, wealth, etc are just the opportunistic [and unfortunately selfish] components that make “arranged marriages”.]
The school of thought by which the concept of Arranged Marriage manifests itself is SO insanely different (and complex) than what we, Western, American-born desis know.
I have to embrace the sentiments of both Ani and BrownD to the extent that the individuality professed by Western culture collides so viciously with what we’re taught growing up that that discussion therein is nothing more than a pressure-cooker ready to explode with often times ill-effects.
And don’t dismiss the subtleties of coercion and “guilt” so easily. The insularity brought upon by the anxiety and fear of assimilating within a culture whose tenets conflict so greatly with theirs [i.e. those of our parents] often times created a “We’re not lisssteenningg blha blha blah Mary Had a Little Lamb” barrier which prevented effective communication that is enhanced by the stifling predictability of the “You’re here because I put you here. Now hush up and listen!” effect.
And I don’t doubt the affections BrownD received from both his mother and father were genuine and ones filled with love and not malice.
MoorNam, your exercise in delineating some type of sensibility within a discussion of arranged marriage across two generations separated by something far greater than any distance comprehendible is facile at best, but mostly, irresponsible.
MoorNam, your exercise in delineating some type of sensibility across two generations separated by something far greater than any distance comprehendible is facile at best, but mostly, irresponsible.
The road to hell is often paved with good intentions.
No one’s saying arranged marriages are right or wrong but rather its viability in BrownD’s, or Ani’s or Joe Schmo’s own context.
What parent would wish hellfire and fury for their children? That’s right – NONE.
One of my Brownie friends in highschool had early on settled to “his fate” in an arranged marriage. As I recall (it’s been a few years), he was expecting to get a hotel as part of the deal. Interestingly, his plans for adjusting included frequent extramarital relationships, a practice he claimed was common of many men in his family. So, in my opinion, the fact that a couple stays married says virtually nothing about the state of happiness in the relationship. And if someone’s entire extended family were involved in the arrangement, business dealings within and so forth, the pressure to stay together must be intense. Divorce must not be a visible option for many Brownies, just as selecting their own mate was never a choice.
Yes we respect and love our parents. And of course I appreciate my parent’s hard work, sacrifice, ya da ya da ya da. But at the same time that is no reason why I should be obey every ruling out of their mouths. Respect is a 2 way street — parents should respect the opinion of their children and the decisions they make regarding their personal lives. Communicating with your folks and telling them you don’t necessarily agree with them is the not the same as “ridiculing” your parents. Uhm hello, I grew up in America — what did my parents think was going to happen — I’d turn out to be some homely girl?
I too have felt that curiosity to read about other desis’ marriage experiences, if anything to see how things work out in the end. The story of how two people come together has universal appeal, and if it involves two people coming together despite ridiculous odds, then that’s an even more interesting tale.
However, stories like Sarita’s and others I’ve read are so specific to one person, that I’m wary of reading anything general into them. What can you possibly say about her experience other than: she was young and maybe naive, she met a guy she really liked, they almost got married, and his motives for marrying someone else are highly suspect? It’s a sad story and it sucks she went through it, but that’s as far as I read into this. I don’t see this as an indictment of her naivete or his being an asshole (he very well could have caved under enormous pressure, which is common). But I do see this as yet another example of how the f’d up dowry system continues to destroy potentially happy marriages.
In response to MoorNam
not true. i have developed an effective method of communicating with my parents. that doesn’t mean that arguments don’t happen. tempers flare and language is used to make a point, not to offend. if you think the conversation goes something like “this family told us about their daughter…” and me replying with “are you f’n crazy”, you’re way off base. it’s usually after persistence and guilt trips that the language would fly. they used to use language around being a good son, being a good hindu, etc to guilt me out, so i’d use language focused on my level of objection to make a point. regardless, it’s all a moot point now since things haven’t been like that for several years.
my parents have attempted to assimilate to some degree. heck, my mom went to school @ a convent in india in spite of being hindu so she’s very familiar with the judeo-christian beliefs that guide much of the thinking in this country. she always encouraged me to appreciate good things about different cultures and religions. they do watch mainstream american movies, but their primary interest is in indian movies (go figure…). they became naturalized citizens and participate in the electoral process, so i would say they have done some work to understand what makes the country tick. in spite of all that, it doesn’t ensure that they are capable of listening to me. when they see me, they see parts of themselves which they expect to act and think like they do. so characterizing the listening problem as a lack of assimilation falls short.
there were some outside influences, but not many, growing up. this is a generalization that can apply to any immigrant family since it characterizes the classic cultural preservation/assimilation struggle. but to extend that to say that i disregarded what was good at home is false. i didn’t have to wait for college to see a world different from my house since i actually got out in high school and hung out with many different types of friends (immigrants, 2nd-4th generation asian american, white, black, hispanic, jewish, etc). in fact, when i got to college, i actually increased my appreciation for what i learned from home, especially when i got more exposure to the south asian american “club” on campus.
nowhere did i say i oppose arranged marriages. hey it works for certain people. all levels of society and all different cultures have this in some shape and it persists for a reason. there’s something to be said for things being easier when people come from similar socio-economic backgrounds. but that doesn’t always mean it is the way to do things. i’m not really Confused about anything and that characterization from you, someone who knows absolutely nothing about me, is offensive. so far, your psychoanalysis of the situation is pretty off-base. regardless, not being forced into arranged marriage IS liberating. it’s liberation from a practice that isn’t right/relevant/applicable to everyone.
parents trying to do what’s best for you is always a good thing, right? actually, that type of thinking shows a complete lack of humility. and completely rejecting parent’s advice is also equally arrogant, so instead, both sides should appreciate what the other has to say, but not take it as gospel (or veda as the case may be). regardless, my parents had to figure out how to communicate with someone who was figuring out who they were in the context of being Indian and being American, which i appreciate as being tough to do. simply casting the problem as figuring out how to communicate with an American makes it sound like Indian parents can’t communicate with anyone but Indians, which is laughable.
anything else you would like to infer?
I guess this hits home for me b/c my husband went to hell and back for eloping with me. His parents were not cool with me at all. I’m not from the same region that my husband’s family is from in India (we were both born here in the States) and shit went down hardcore. He was strong and god I respect him for that. He treated his parents with respect and utmost politeness BUT stood his ground FIRMLY. We eloped — it was right for us. Granted, it gave both of his parentsÂ’ heart attacks and things were distant for a good year. It’s coming close to our 2 year anniversary and his family has completely come around. They’re actually mad cool and very loving. I couldn’t have imagined if my husband had behaved like a spineless twit — granted I wouldn’t have married him — b/c that’s the epitome of “unsexy.”
Right on absolutgcs and ani. My first boyfriend was Turkish and from a Muslim background and my current boyfriend is a whitey. Though my parents strongly prefer me to be with brown men (whom I have nothing against), I’ve always been confident enough in my choices to not let the sometimes not-so-subtle pressure ever push me into throwing away great relationships. Like absolutgcs said, the fact that our parents gave birth to us DOES NOT entitle them to complete ownership and power over our most important life decisions. I don’t know if anyone here has seen Sidney Poitier’s “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner” (basic plot, black dude marrying white girl, parents not so thrilled) but there’s this great scene where Sydney Poitier’s dad is guilt-tripping him and talking about all the hours he worked as a postman earning extra money to put Sydney through college and med school blah blah blah and Sydney gives it to him good and says the following which I hope we all have the guts and eloquence to say to our parents if we’re ever in the same situation (The first part is what’s really applicable to what we’re all talking about, but I put the whole thing in there just for completeness :))
“You listen to me. You say you don’t want to tell me how to live my life. So what do you think you’ve been doing? You tell me what rights I’ve got or haven’t got, and what I owe to you for what you’ve done for me. Let me tell you something. I owe you nothing! If you carried that bag a million miles, you did what you’re supposed to do! Because you brought me into this world. And from that day you owed me everything you could ever do for me like I will owe my son if I ever have another. But you don’t own me! You can’t tell me when or where I’m out of line, or try to get me to live my life according to your rules. You don’t even know what I am, Dad, you don’t know who I am. You don’t know how I feel, what I think. And if I tried to explain it the rest of your life you will never understand. You are 30 years older than I am. You and your whole lousy generation believes the way it was for you is the way it’s got to be. And not until your whole generation has lain down and died will the dead weight be off our backs! You understand, you’ve got to get off my back! Dad… Dad, you’re my father. I’m your son. I love you. I always have and I always will. But you think of yourself as a colored man. I think of myself as a man.”
Sorry for the long ass post 🙂
Good God. That link was filled with cliche after cliche. And all of them horribly, horribly accurate.
Unless the people concerned have really managed to hit the jackpot in the Russian Roulette that is the traditional arranged marriage — at least in this aspect — those are often the words of individuals who have never passionately loved someone in the romantic sense. A sense of warm familiarity and “being used to each other” may or may not have developed after they got married, but there is a stark difference between this and deeply loving someone who you regard as being your soulmate.
Experiencing the latter can make it very different for a person to consider “settling” for the former, although of course there are plenty of desis around who have unfortunately done so (for one reason or another, parental politics being a major cause).
Anyway…..
Kesh,
My sympathies, bro. I really hope you manage to find a way to successfully resolve your situation. As I’ve mentioned on a similar topic previously on SM, there is an absolutely huge amount of very deeply-embedded social and cultural conditioning that many (not all) of the older generation are exposed to, especially the acceptability of emotional blackmail as a technique for manipulation and the whole issue of being obsessed with “what other people will think”. The desire to micro-manage their adult children is of course another pertinent issue, especially with regards to choice of spouse (and the nature of the path taken — dating/love marriage/arranged marriage/etc etc).
Sugunam,
You just did, my friend 😉 SM gets about 16000 hits every day. Or you should consider creating your own blog and posting your thoughts there. I’m very sorry to hear about your terrible experience, anyway — the gold-digging trait can often be a nasty characteristic amongst some Indian women, especially if her girlfriends are encouraging her behind the scenes. It happens here in the UK too, especially in London.
*And all of them horribly, horribly accurate.
…..In the sense of being realistic.
“Nothing ticks me off more than friends who are freaking adults — done with school — making their own money — but are desperately afraid of letting their families know they have a boyfriend/girlfriend that they want to marry. It’s insane. You’re an adult!
Growing a spine helps.”
Ani, ain’t that the truth!
I’m a white girl who made the huge mistake of falling in love with a south Indian boy, 26, Brahmin, who lived very typical middle class existence before he came here for school, and for all external appearances had gotten quite Americanized in his several years here (you know the drill, steady diet of rap music, clothes from JCrew/Banana republic/Express, etc), but when the “living two lives” occasions would happen, I cut him way too much slack during the time we were together. First, Mummy came for an extended visit and we went through weeks and weeks and weeks of furtive phone calls (him in hushed tones so she wouldn’t hear him at night – I mean, dude, grow a set already!) until he introduced me just before she went back as his “friend” (but she bloody well knew there was something going on). I visited the motherland with him and when we attended a friend’s wedding together, he couldn’t have been more standoffish or distant, like I was a stray dog that had followed him home, and man oh man, you shoulda seen the Looks of Death I got from all the aunties. He was one kind of guy there, another here.
But we persisted, supposedly loved each other, to the point that we started talking about marriage and kids and we moved in together. I think around then Mummy told him not to dare come to her to look for a wife for him in the future (she obviously knew we’d never last), because he’d be, in essence, damaged goods and aiyo she couldn’t show her face to any decent girl’s family because everyone would know what an awful thing he’d been doing over here. (Meanwhile he now has the caché with the ladies of being a bad boy.)
And after two years of living together in our “committed relationship” (ha ha), turns out home slice has had a profile posted on an Indian matrimonial website for months and months, and was still in constant contact with a former girlfriend back in India. Things went steadily downhill from there, and when he announced that he wanted out, I discovered that he had been fooling around with a white girl in his office, before he even moved out.
(Amardeep, was meri chhoti kahani sufficiently nutty for you?)
Ani What a refreshing perspective! This arranged-marriage-bashing thing has many ignorant fans. Posting links about personal ‘getting-back’ stories just add to promoting the negativity about something which could ( and is for most people) a very positive experience.
I didn’t like the article at all. It seemed like an exerpt from a brown chit lit book – not an article for the NYT. The topic is stale now. Furthermore, I am shocked that Ms. James shared as much detail as she did for all to read i.e. her first kiss at age 22. A few days after it was published, it was forwarded to me by her Cousin-in-law (who happens to be my cousin).
Ann On
I give you props for even staying that long with a doofus like him….damn you even went to motherland
Is it me or have i heard that happen one too many times? indian guys “hooking” up with american girls (white, black, latino), Promising them the world – relationship, marriage, kids etc. and then when its time to get married they go to india and find a nice virgin desi girl who cooks and cleans.
I think Ann On, you got played and he used the “my parents wont accept you easily – i need more time to make them feel comfortable” excuse to get some space away from you so that he could persue his real intentions which were to mess around with the other girl at the office.
My guess in your situation is that his parents never had a chance to think about you as more than a casual girlfriend because he probably never told them that there was anything serious between the two of you.
He didnt really need to “grow a set” – it was all part of the game which you naively fell for.
Meena writes: >>there’s this great scene(Guess who’s coming to dinner) where Sydney Poitier’s dad is guilt-tripping him and … Sydney gives it to him good and says the following which I hope we all have the guts and eloquence to say to our parents
In the early 60’s, only one-in-10 black families was divorced and only 1-in-20 had out-of-wedlock births.
The movie came out in 1967.
Today (since the early 90’s), 6-in-10 black marriages end in divorce, 65%+ black teen pregancies are recorded and 70% of Black children grow up in single-mother households.
Over the same time period, white/latino rates have increased at a much lower rate.
Is there a link?
M. Nam
Ouch Turd that was harsh.
I love the whole idea of arranged marraige. Unlike what most westerners think it is not like parents are forcing us to marry…..they are merely setting us up with someone which is no different than your friend/colleague setting you up. The guys family either comes to your house (how convenient) or the girl and the guy meet for lunch or dinner at a restaurant (thats how it was in my case) and decide among themselves. I mean my parents never told me “this is the guy you have to marry”, infact the question was “would you like to marry this guy”? As a indian born and bred woman coming from a middle class indian family and now a practicing attorney in the US, I find it very annoying when americans conceive that every marraige in India involves dowry, every little girl is married blh blah. As a girl, woman in India, I have never felt oppressed, repressed…..I mean how many more generations of Indians will have to keep answering the same questions again and again! I think we as Indians, and I mean all people of indian heritage (just being an american citizen is not going to make you american ) need to make a conscious effort to highlight the rich indian heritage and not just the negative aspects of it. I mean there are negative things in every culture, religion….. Just the other day a partner in my office asked me at lunch,” so did u ALSO have an arranged marraige” Yes, I replied. It was arranged by god
(
Then what makes you an american if not citizenship? I would imagine citizenship defines nationality….
(
Then what makes you an american if not citizenship? I would imagine citizenship defines nationality….
So she got e-dumped by a guy who didn’t have the spine or conviction to stand up to his parents? Sounds like a big fat blessing in disguise. Not that getting dumped doesn’t hurt, but if he sold her out for dowry, he’d have done it 100 times over, for petty things, if they HAD been married.
And before anyone flames me, I’m not about desi-man-bashing… I love my pati dev. He’s also nobody’s wuss, ya hear.
the way to improve the bottom line (and i’m not talking in a financial context) IS to highlight the problems. we have enough melas, diwali/deepavali shows, etc to “highlight the rich indian heritage”. in my opinion, the effort to examine the negative aspects is still a fraction of all the highlighting and celebrating that is done.
nice one. I like to say “I arranged it myself.” 😉
I love that, “I arranged it myself.” I’m going to steal that line and use it:)
well, since you asked, in the infinite wisdom of my father, PAYING TAXES. and lots of them.
“vhaat?! i pay this uncle sam XXXXX a year and still i’m not citizen?! ye koi baat hein?”
of course he HAD to become a citizen after making gobs of dough and realizing that only through that would he reap much greater benefits in his pension.
Nice one. I am stealing it for myself :).
Taking a cue from Unclejee, I can say unabashedly that I qualify to be Auntyjee to most of the marriageable young men and women here.
Stop fretting already! There is no golden “how to” in the marriage game. I met my own husband the second year of college, dated steadily for five years before getting married. I am talking 1970s in India, when the overwhelming number of marriages were “arranged.” (Must confess though that it couldn’t have happened without two sets of open minded parents on both sides especially because it was a cross cultural match – Bengali/Punjabi). And we were not the only ones. A large number of our friends had “love marriages” most of which endure to this day. There is no significant difference in the divorce rate among our peer group between those who marched to the beat of their own drummer and others who took their marching orders from the “elders”. One thing is true however. Far fewer of those who decided for themselves, linger in a bad marriage compared to those who went the traditional route. I guess if you can go against social pressures to enter into a marriage, you also are better equipped to walk out when things no longer work for you. One thing I don’t believe for a moment. Parents can sometimes “prevent” one from marrying but they cannot “make” you marry. Not if you yourself don’t have material and emotional expectations from your parents. And I am talking about adult, educated and reasonably financially secure people, right? Not child brides and bridegrooms.
I had posted about the same article on my own blog – I was underwhelmed by Sarita John’s predicament. Someone said vis-a-vis arranged vs love marriages, different strokes for different folks. And I agree. I am more concerned as an Indian American mother whether our wonderful, accomplished children have the same wide playing field in the marriage market (be it self or community arranged) like my friends and I did as members of an ethnically majority community in India.
Have a look at the latest issue of Newsweek about the state of marriage in the US.
first, i’d need to see a source to believe the initial statistics. and even then i would bet that EVERYTHING from ALL RACES/ETHNICITIES was underreported.
so you are suggesting that 1.) there was an increase in rebelliousness in african americans that exceeded whites/latinos from the 1960s on and 2.) this contributes to the divorce, teen pregnancy and single-mother household rates?
good luck proving that one. how would you control for other influential factors, like, oh i don’t know, racism, poverty, fluctuation in government assistance, absence of affirmative action, etc?
Desi dancer that dance class? the instructor is hot, how about arranging that for me?
Paying Taxes? I dont get that one. I lived in the UK for a year and paid taxes there. I would never claim that paying those taxes made me british in any way….
infinite wisdom of my father….this could work. i just have no clue what exactly it means…
Very cool Ruchira Paul — I have the same cross-cultural marriage you have. I lucked out — my Bengali parents are psycho liberal San Franciscan hippies.
Ditto.
I cringe when old uncles mention getting arranged marriages to younger [Read: 21] girls is good for guys, so they can ‘mold’ her. I also find it interesting how guys in the 25+ group would want someone who is 19 years of age, for marriage, not to date or go out with. It isn’t the most common thing, but as this case shows, it does happen.
Most these days at least families let the prospective bride and grooms complete their education before circulating the Biodata on the Uncle/Aunty stock exchange.
I’ve gone this route and one of the reasons why my fiancee and I hit it off was the fact that we’re essentially the same age and could relate to each other on an equal mental/maturity level. It was one of the reasons she felt very comfortable with me, too.
Ain’t nothing wrong with you ladies who hold out past the ‘ripe’ marriage age. More power to ya all. There are men who appreciate the fine wine type qualities.
Ani, I don’t think Turd was harsh; I think he was right. This guy turned out to be an inveterate liar, and he totally played me.
On a much happier note, I like that “I arranged it myself” line too. Shabash DesiDancer.
Very cool business you’ve got going on DesiDancer. I might have to wander in sometime since I’m local and check it out. Don’t know when I’ll have a chance to bust my Bollywood moves, but very cool.
Thanks Jai, appreciate the support 🙂
Browndelicious– bring it! you are welcome ANY time, yaar.
I love the way DD keeps the mystery going by not revealing whether she’s Pooja or Renu 😉
Agree with the previous comment — impressive business.
Anyway, back to the arranged-marriage arguments and anecdotes……
It doesn’t stop there, after you get married it’s all about what you’re going to do with that and when will you start procreating, already? Oh but it’s never your parents’ idea, it’s always some friend in The Indian Community who wants to know. Ugh.
Just say no to meddling aunties.
Kesh,
No problem, buddy. If it makes you feel any better, remember that there are huge numbers of other desis who have gone through this before you or are having to deal with it right now, so don’t become too despondent. You’re not alone in this by any means. Keep trying to achieve a change — it’s worth it 😉
Very best of luck.