Rising Racial Tensions in the UK?

Last week, a Sikh woman was confronted by an angry racist mob while walking in a park in Southeast London with her daughter and friend:

[They] were out on a walk and … decided to go home when a crowd of around 20 boys and three girls started shouting racist abuse… The three made their way to their car but were confronted by the rabble minutes later. They hurled sticks, full beer cans and stones at the car causing slight damage to the windscreen. [Link]

The BNP is “wholly opposed to any form of racial integration between British and non-European peoples” While they got away unscathed, the racists also avoided punishment:

They escaped unhurt and called police. The victim says police told her no arrests could be made because officers said they were “outnumbered” by the horde of teenagers. [Link]

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p>The victim was petrified because Southeast London was where, in 1993, 18 year old student Stephen Lawrence was beaten to death in a racist attack:

“All I could think during the attack was, ‘This is something like Stephen Lawrence went through. It feels like we’re going to get killed’. [Link]

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p>Here’s my question to our British readers out there and those in the know – is this an isolated incident, or part of the rising tide of xenophobia? Is this incident part of the same phenomenon that led to the British National Party (BNP) doubling the number of council seats in the last election?

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p>For those of you just tuning in, the BNP is a right wing nationalist party in the UK that was once a fringe party but which has ominously gained strength recently as anti-immigration sentiment in the UK has grown:

The BNP declares itself “wholly opposed to any form of racial integration between British and non-European peoples.” It seeks to restore the overwhelmingly white makeup of Britain before 1948; its leader has called Islam a “wicked, vicious faith” [Link]

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p>Their pamphlets are openly racist:

Featured on the cover is a photo taken in 1953 on the day of Queen Elizabeth II’s coronation, showing a large group of white women and girls attending a party. Below are two more-recent photos of the neighborhood, showing black men and Muslim women in head scarves and veils. Large bold letters ask, “Is this what you really want?” [Link]

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p>And its critics link it to neo-Nazi groups around the world. Its anti-immigration positions have grown steadily more popular even though people are hesitant to support these positions when they are identified with the BNP. This means that the BNP has more support than the pollsters realize.

I had thought the time for open violence against brown people in the UK had passed as Asians became more recognized and accepted in mainstream British society. Was I wrong?

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p.s. Ironically, I had earlier heard a BBC interview with a Pakistani couple who agreed with most of the anti-immigration sentiment that the BNP represents. They complained that the new immigrants had come in and taken advantage of government benefits without contributing much. They didn’t identify the new immigrants, though. If they were referring to Africans, this is unsurprising – there’s little news in brown-on-black racism. However, if what they meant was the recent influx of Polish immigrants, then it’s funny – brown people getting racist against white immigrants to the UK – Go back to Poland where you came from and leave the UK to the brown people! Unfortunately for them, the BNP wants to keep rolling back waves of immigrants until it can restore the UK to its “pristine” condition. It’s amazing how foolish people can be in their political affiliations sometimes.

78 thoughts on “Rising Racial Tensions in the UK?

  1. Thanks for this post. Having lived in the UK, i can say that tension and violence against Asians is far from being over. I’m not sure if there is a new wave of hatred occuring or if this hatred stems from years of Asians immigrating into the UK… but it seems that mainstream British society has an issue with the new generation of Asians — those who were born and raised in England. These youth may not think of themselves as immigrants like their parents had, and this therefore creates tension and conflict for those individuals who do think they should be considered as immigrants. I think a lot of suppressed feelings are re-surfacing now and that will unfortunately, without dialogue, lead to further tension and violence.

  2. but it seems that mainstream British society has an issue with the new generation of Asians

    perception: this anti-immigrant sentiment seems in large part strongly skewed toward low SES whites. another perception: low SES whites have of late been characterized by a culture of nihilism in the UK that is spinning out of control. so, i wonder if racism is simply a manifestation for this group to believe in something.

    anyway, not everything the BNP says is wrong, even if their racism, hatred and implicit violence is.

    britain doesn’t really have that many non-whites compared to the USA even. i think residential segregation is part of the problem. i have read/seen leftists complain that tv shows (like the “Up series”) does not represent britain because of only token non-white representation, when the reality is over 90% of the british are white.

    also, another perception: it is easier being non-white in the US than in most of europe. ironic note: my relatives in the UK are something of black sheep in the bangladeshi community because they are not syhleti. my cousin would regularly get beat up by other bangladeshis on the street on his way back from school (there might be a class angle, he’s a ‘public school’ boy).

  3. Razib:

    ironic note: my relatives in the UK are something of black sheep in the bangladeshi community because they are not syhleti. my cousin would regularly get beat up by other bangladeshis on the street on his way back from school (there might be a class angle, he’s a ‘public school’ boy).

    I have heard about this syleti vs non syhleti situation, but I don’t quite understand it. What is going on with that?

  4. Interesting article by Ennis. As someone living in the UK, here are a couple of points:

    1. The BNP are taking advantage of current controversies over illegal immigration and what is perceived to be “unmanageable, excessive” immigration. The idea that the UK’s “intrinsic British culture” is being (negatively) changed by brown people is also nonsense; there has certainly been some influence by various immigrant groups, but in reality the UK has become far more like an extension of the United States, culturally-speaking anyway. The dominant cultural influence here is actually American.

    2. They are also attempting to facilitate some kind of “alliance” against Muslims, and that includes targetting non-Muslim South Asian groups, as the BNP is aware that culturally and historically there has often been a significant degree of animosity between these desi sub-groups.

    3. Razib is absolutely correct in stating that “perception” is an important factor; there actually aren’t that many South Asians here compared to the 60+ million people comprising the rest of the British population. However, the reality is distorted in regional areas with a high concentration of desis, and also the profile of South Asians here (publicly and in the media) is greater than the “actual” numbers (the latter is the same situation as Sikhs in India, for example).

    4. 9/11, 7/7, the Danish cartoon controversies, and the activities of some radical Muslim groups such as Hizb-ut-Tahrir, Al-Muhajiroun/Al-Gharaaba etc have all made matters significantly worse in recent years too. However, these issues are just an excuse for the BNP, who have always had a racist agenda and continue to do so. They’re just capitalising on people’s fears.

    5. 5.
    Asians became more recognized and accepted in mainstream British society. Was I wrong?

    Not necessarily, but it does depend on who one talks to here and where one lives. There are plenty of intelligent, good-natured white people in the UK who have enough objectivity and decency to be able to see “the big picture” and do not fall for the propaganda, and they certainly don’t blame “all” Asians for the issues I mentioned in point #4. However, there are others who have a less enlightened attitude. It’s obviously going to depend on their own personalities, environment, and social circle.

  5. I’ve read some articles that really spoke to me about the divisions and discrimination among the Asian groups in the UK. Recently the Tooting Boys, a Tamil gang, killed two Pakistanis for no reason. On BBC Asian Network there was also a Sikh man (maybe he was a Punjabi Hindu, I’m not sure)who was a member of the BNP. His membership was based on his hatred of Muslims, specifically Pakistanis.

    When evaluating Asian relations in the UK, one might also consider the 1985 riots in Birmingham, and the more recent riots in Bradford, in 2001 I think. There was also more recent violence in Birmingham, between Afro-Caribbean and Pakistani youth, which started with a rumor that a group of Asians gang raped a Afro-Caribbean girl.

  6. Guy from Cali: I’ve read some articles that really spoke to me about the divisions and discrimination among the Asian groups in the UK.

    I am a fellow Californian. There are also divisions and discrimination among Asian groups here in the US as well. At one Hindu mandhir, I remember, there had been a group of Desi youngun’s who did a drive by shooting (!). In addition, though I personally steered clear away from Desi cliques, a friend of mine once convinced me to attend a “Desi party”. At least 5 different gangs had been present– the Bombay Posse, the Pakistani Psychadelics, and something-or-others. Lots of gang rivalry. In other areas, there had been confrontations between Punjabi Sikhs and Gujurati Hindus.

    Too many divisions amongst Desis worldwide, yaar.

  7. A guy from cali

    Those Pakistani boys in Tooting were not stabbed by Tamils – they were stabbed by Pakistanis – they have already arrested some people for the crime.

  8. The UK is not an immigrant country like the US. In the UK you have to conform to the majority culture/ community. I find the native Britions generally warm and welcoming but the favour must be returned. I find some immigrants not doing so and most of them from Pakistani-Muslim backgrounds. Living in ghettos also does not help.

    The BNP by the way is not on the march. It has a very small %tage vote and soem seats in areas it was expected to win. It was a protest vote by white working class Brits for being ignored.

    Racism is not on the rise in the UK, but anti-Islamism is on the rise – but this is now a general feeling amongst many Infidels – so not a new thing to worry about.

  9. a guy from cali

    The 1985 riots in Birmingham were carried out by Rastas and Jamaicans – who mostly targetted Asian businesses and even burnt to death two Bangladeshi men in a post office – throughout the 1980’s blacks in the UK inner cities rioted. There were even riots in Southall in 1981 against the Neo Nazi National Front (NF) when they tried to march through Southall. They got chased out and the pub in which they came to watch a skinhead concert was burned down. Dozens of skinheads had the shit kicked out of them. The Nazis never dared to set foot in Southall again.

    Oh yeah, by the way. The BNP does claim to have a couple of Sikhs and Hindus who support it because of their hatred of Muslims. The BNP know that the best prejudice to whip up at the moment is that against Muslims and their efforts are concentrated on trying to drive a wedge amongst Asians by playing the good Asian/ bad Asian card : ie: Sikhs and Hindus won’t try and take over England and bomb us and rape our women – Muslims will. You get the picture. That way they can say they are not being racist but are simply riding on the wave of opposition to ‘anti-Islamism’, in the light of the Mohammad cartoons etc.

  10. I agree with Bihari Babu – the BNP are not on the march – they are a racist and fringe party seen as lunatics, and gaining seats in a couple of wards on a 30% turnout in areas of white working class disillusion is a protest vote and nothing more. Anyone who knows what racism was like in the 1980’s and 1970’s will not be under any illusion that things are getting worse in the UK – there are a number of dynamics going on there is increased integration and a much higher profile and acceptance and wealth and at the same time tensions and traction in some of the inner city ghetto communities. It is not black and white and on the whole Britain is a good and decent and fair country for Asian people. Regional differences too – the North is in general not as integrated and prosperous as the south.

  11. Living in ghettos also does not help.

    I suppose their choice of neighborhood is limited by income. How rampant is housing discrimination in UK?

  12. Rising?

    When I lived there in the 80s the country had no shortage of racists. My dad wanted to leave England because after living there since the 70s he had come to the conclusion the country was full of racists. Was there some lull in the 90s where everyone was holding hands and it was all one love? Or perhaps nothing has changed, and England is as England always has been.

  13. That’s a pile of crap. England is not full of racists. Or put it this way. It is as full of racists as America or Canada or Ireland or Australia is. Pay your money and take your choice. When my Aunt lived in New York in the 1980’s all we heard from her was about the infamous New Jersey Dot Bashers. You can’t extrapolate that to a whole society.

  14. England is not full of racists.

    Anecdotally, it took 17 years for an American to toss a racist slur at me, but only a couple of months in a posh area of London.

  15. I think it is tough for North American Desis to understand the British desi dynamic. For example, residential segregation is a lot bigger, but desi culture permeates society in a way even a Vancouverite would find surpising. Despite the similar language, the UK is still a foreign country.

    But bear mind that the BNP went from about 22 council seats to 44 council seats — out of a total of about 22,000 council seats. Not much of a crisis.

  16. Perhaps “full” was the wrong word. Still, you’ll have to trust me when I say Canada and the England I remember are nothing alike. Really.

  17. English people are rude! I was there in ’01 and cant remember hearing even once excuse me or a thank-you

  18. All that stuff about racists aside, yeah sure you might be more likely to encounter racism somewhere in the UK than somewhere in the US but the variation is pretty broad in either place. What is more important is that London is a centre of South Asian culture in a way nowhere in the US is. I walked into a Dixon’s (big UK electronics chain, soon to be rebranded Curry’s, except at airports, not kidding) at Heathrow airport the other day and the (all Punjabi) assistants had the old Punjabi song “kali teri gut te paranda teri lal ni” playing. Outside India, damnit, London is home.

  19. English people are rude! I was there in ’01 and cant remember hearing even once excuse me or a thank-you

    I wrote the exact same thing in my blog when I got back from a wedding in England last year. I was craving the politeness of New Yorkers after that trip!

  20. At my NYC gym they play bhangra sometimes (late night the customers are cabbies), and at Barnes and Noble in Union Square (like Waterstone’s in Piccadilly Circus) they play old Hindi songs pretty often. But no, it’s not quite like Londonstan.

  21. CAD- Thats a good point, I knew there had to be divisions at some level between desis in the US obviously, but I guess sometimes we have to step back to really see it.

    Tooting Bec- Thanks for the info you seem to know alot about the subject. Do you think that blacks are more accepted than Asians in the mainstream in the UK? I’ve always thought that they are, partially because of the status that blacks have in the US, their presence in movies, music etc so it makes it ok or even cool to have blacks in the media. I always look for desis when I watch British movies, and usually see blacks before desis, if there are any desis at all.

  22. Do you think that blacks are more accepted than Asians in the mainstream in the UK?

    Yes, for all the reasons stated in post #23, but also because black people here tend to be comparatively more “westernised” than Asians are (or are perceived as such). There’s also a considerably higher rate of intermarriage between white people and black people, along with people in long-term relationships (but unmarried).

  23. I wrote the exact same thing in my blog when I got back from a wedding in England last year.

    life’s all a big shamiana and dhol gig, eh Sonia? 🙂

  24. I don’t particularly want to get involved with discussion, people seem to have some bizarre views about the UK based on what seems to be almost no experience. I guess I sound the same when I talk about America (although I’m more accurate and almost certainly more polite :)) I would never choose a life in America over the life I have here, and I’m sure Americans would say the converse. There’s a limited amount one can infer about living in another country simply from the media. e.g. Ikram’s point, that the BNP ‘threat’ is being immensely overplayed.

    However I think Eurodesi has a point, London is quite different from the rest of the country. I wouldn’t like to live anywhere else in the UK because I love London, but I wouldn’t feel out of place anywhere. I’ve never felt unwelcome in any particular area.

    Tooting Bec, your one line sums it up:

    You can’t extrapolate that to a whole society.

    Silly generalisations are just that, silly. We hear about racist incidents from America on a regular basis but I don’t think anyone here thinks “America is full of racists” (cf ramanan #14)

    Really just commenting to say yo to Tooting Bec – another Tooting lad on here, excellent (I’m assuming you’re a lad!) I was wistfully driving past Amal Shawarma and Sree Krishna this afternoon, and I thought after six great years I’m really going to miss this place.

  25. BB – leaving aside shallow overgeneralizations, do you think that there is an increase in xenophobia in the UK? Do you think that is related to the BNP in some fashion (as I pointed out, support for them is limited but sympathy for their objectives seems to be increasing far more), and do you think that this incident is related or just a one off?

    I understand your distaste for sweeping culturalist explanations (all Brits are X), but can you give us a more subtle perspective?

  26. life’s all a big shamiana and dhol gig, eh Sonia? 🙂

    Oh, that would be heavenly if it were true =)

  27. Ennis,

    do you think that there is an increase in xenophobia in the UK?

    Xenophobia, no. Distrust and antagonism towards Islam (and by association, Muslims), definitely. The latter also sometimes spills over into problems towards (South) Asians in general, because for many people here, the terms “Asian” and “Muslim” are interchangeable.

    But as BongBreaker has mentioned, the rest of the country has different social and cultural dynamics to London, so issues further north aren’t necessarily relevant, or as pronounced, in London (and vice versa).

    Personally, I don’t think it’s directly related to the BNP (although they’re probably “fanning the flames” in their target areas), but they’re jumping on the bandwagon and, as I mentioned earlier, trying to use people’s fears and concerns to their own nefarious advantage.

  28. There are a variety of scenarios. The first two are not mutually exclusive:

    1. Xenophobia is increasing for various reasons – the BNP benefits, and various racial incidents occur
    2. Xenophobia is increasing for various reasons, and the BNP both benefits and fans the flame

    3. Xenophobia is increasing, but is unrelated to the racial incident, and the BNP has not really benefitted.

    4. Xenophobia is not really increasing.

    Of course, then there’s the issue in variation in xenophobia – where, amongst whom, towards whom, etc.

  29. Wow – the first thing I have to say is that I see a lot of prejudice towards the UK on this discussion. Same old, same old. For some or other reason not just the UK, but the entire of Europe is perceived to be ‘full of racists’. The same way that North American Desis won’t like it when we make generalised statements about them, so shouldn’t you do the same about the people in Europe and the UK.

    That said, I don’t actually live in the UK, but from what I’ve read and seen is that there are certain areas with a very high concentration of desis(e.g. Bradford) – and those are invariably problematic places. From what I know, the population there mostly consists of lower-class Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Correct me if I’m wrong though.

    As for the xenophobia , I wouldn’t know if that has increased – but I’m inclined to think that it hasn’t.

  30. Even as a fringe with the limited numbers listed below, can you see why the BNP raises eyebrows? We don’t have anything like this in the US:

    In the 2005 general election, the party raised its total number of votes by 0.5% to gain 0.7% – or 192,850 votes. It gained support in the 2004 European Parliament elections, increasing its votes by 3.9% to gain 4.9% of the vote, but failed to win a seat. The BNP has courted controversy over its policies, which include a total ban on immigration, and the forced deportation of illegal immigrants from the UK. BNP spokesman Phil Edwards said the Rowntree report reflected unease among voters about Britain’s shift towards a multicultural society. He said Britain had moved from a “racially homogeneous society … into one where the cultures are quite alien.” “That does add quite a lot of tensions and stresses,” Mr Edwards said. “What we are trying to do is preserve the traditional culture and identity of Britain,” he added. [Link]

    I’m very glad that the protest vote went to the Tories instead of the BNP, but increased sympathy for the BNP is of concern. At the very least, it could change policies amongst the major parties, even if the BNP never grow.

  31. we don’t have parties like the BNP in the news regularly

    You don’t have openly treasonous groups like HuT and Al-Muhajiroun/Al-Gharaaba in the news regularly either, interviewed in order to represent “the radical Muslim perspective”. God knows why the British media even considers giving them the oxygen of publicity.

    BNP and HuT/Al-M/Al-G are two sides of the same coin. The latter fan the flames with their own proclamations and agendas, and give yet more ammunition to the BNP.

    They’re all as bad as each other and are causing problems for all of us, although I would agree that the threat posed by both groups is exaggerated.

  32. Question – who are the immigrants in question here? Is this about proles against Poles? Or those with no jobs against those with hijabs?

  33. can you give us a more subtle perspective?

    I’ll try to Ennis.

    7/7 was the equivalent of our 9/11. Irrespective of scale, the potential to change people’s mentality was there. However I have found almost no lasting fallout from that particular incident. London truly is one of the most multi-cultural and happily multi-cultural places in the world. Experiences of desis I’ve read about, especially from Sikhs, in the US seem completely alien to me and my peers.

    I don’t know whether I’d agree with your viewpoint Jai. Has Islamophobia increased or is it simply talked about more? The right-leaning press has certainly found itself talking about Islam more frequently than a few years ago. But society at large hasn’t change its treatment towards Muslims and the government has been particularly soft on the hardline elements. That in itself has led to frustration from the public, people certainly are of the opinion that extremism is not being tackled effectively.

    The BNP result can also be linked (at least somewhat) to the recent Home Office furore, where 1000-odd foreign convicts were released after their sentence and not deported. Many re-offended. This, combined with two other controversies, sent the Labour party into meltdown for the week of the elections. However the BNP contested 350 seats, but only won 44 and 30% were in one area, where the flames have certainly been fanned by the BNP. The Danish cartoons and the ridiculous reaction in the UK were great for the BNP.

    Immigration remains a hot topic and polarises opinion. A hardline anti-immigration stance appeals to some, combined with the new Tory leader being accused of being ‘soft’ on certain issues. Some Tories may well have moved further right.

    Ennis your point about the BNP being in the media is an interesting one, as Sunny and I have made many calls for them to be in the media. What encouraged some ‘Islamophobia’ is the slanted coverage Islam seemed to receive in the tabloid press. Extremists were given front page articles and stacks of column inches, giving the impression that most Muslims were like them. So we say that if you’re going to cover the fringe elements, fine – but be equal about it and cover the BNP too. At the moment, many of the BNP-supporters don’t really know what the party’s about. Those ethnic supporters are clearly deluded and seduced by talk of ‘improving transport, healthcare’ etc etc. So if the BNP are on TV more frequently, their one-policy racist strategy will be exposed. Bar their intelligent and eloquent, but utterly racist, leader they are entirely incompetent and their gains will be fleeting.

    You may not have parties like the BNP, but then you really only have two parties anyway.

  34. Question – who are the immigrants in question here? Is this about proles against Poles? Or those with no jobs against those with hijabs?

    Actually, you answered that question already. I just wanted to try my hand at sloganeering.

  35. I hear a lot of vitriol directed towards Poles Ennis. But they’re white, so it took a little while longer for the mainstream media to pick up on it. People are unsure about the unregulated EC-wide migration. Most East Europeans come for a few years, work as plumbers and decorators (both in short supply) and go back. Everybody wins. But skilled immigrants are outnumbered by outskilled, or so it seems. I know a lot of people who have had bad experiences with Poles and it has led to an overall distrust. They have developed a reputation for being benefit scammers.

    Hijabs aren’t arriving in the country that much anymore. Skilled immigrants from outside the EU have a tougher time coming to the UK, e.g. Indian doctors have been shafted. So immigration is quite separate to the Muslim issue now – the ‘problem Muslims’ are almost all homegrown. Segregation is not as widespread as the press makes out, but it does exist in significant swathes. And it will only get worse as far as I can tell, with the proliferation of faith schools.

  36. England is a really racist place…point blank. I apologize if you have already touched on some of the things in your previous posts but i’m at work and have to put this up quick. I’m mixed race (African-American, Irish and English). As a kid in the late 70s i had to be taken out of my primary school because of the racist attitudes. Moving forward i went to several schools Newbold College (Wicked School lots of Africans), St Josephs RC Primary School (Not too bad with the racism) but still got into tons of fights whenever someone called me the n word. Salesian College though was the worst…some of my (friends???) decided it would be fun to say that i had AIDS because i came from Africa.

    Lots more stuff of course but you cant let hatred and bitterness rule your life. I do believe that Asians do get a lot more stick than West Indians or Africans because you have several distinct cultures that are completely foreign to most english people. Also being Black there is the coolness factor, which for some reason gets you respect from people who don’t like Asians…(very strange people those ones).

    Some of my friends actually got into a fight with some skinheads down in Southampton one time. They were minding their own business when these white lads came at them with motorcycle chains and bats. They ended up winning the brawl but unfortunately one of the white lads passed away.

    England is a little different than the States though because Blacks and Asians stick together more over here we are separated. I think the reason for the separation is that America encourages people to stick with their own kind. Of course people date inter-racially and do other stuff but it is not as accepted.

  37. I’d guess the UK is more racist towards desis given that desis are the dominant minority. A better comparison would be desis in the UK vs. blacks in the U.S.

  38. i think the USA is more PC as opposed to less racist. it is an important distinction.

    I agree 100% with Razib on both points.

  39. Interesting how the people who have said Britain is very racist have both cited experiences from the 1970s.

    I think the reason people are citing examples from the 70s is to suggest that racist attitudes aren’t on the rise, that they have always been there. My father lived in England for 17 years, and has no love whatsoever for the place. When he goes back to visit he complains so little has changed; the BBC reports on the same sorts of stories he recalls from the 70s and 80s: white kids still beat up on minorities; the police and government still don’t seem to bothered by racism; skinheads are still skinheads; the conservatives are still afraid of immigrants.

  40. oh god you guys are scaring the paste out of me … i’m ramping up for a client meeting in london later this year… and you ARE NOT HELPING… the only thing positive is the news that red ken has let his toilet simmer for six months now
    btw – for all the talk on the xenophobia – did anyone take the time to check out the 2004 murder of Kriss Donald in #2 above – Hate is EA/EO, IMO – is that a song – -whoot-whoot-chckchcka-shoopshoop-shick

  41. I’d guess the UK is more racist towards desis given that desis are the dominant minority. A better comparison would be desis in the UK vs. blacks in the U.S.

    well said.

  42. Question – who are the immigrants in question here? Is this about proles against Poles? Or those with no jobs against those with hijabs?

    Nice sloganeering, Ennis.

  43. Manish,

    I’d guess the UK is more racist towards desis given that desis are the dominant minority.

    No, it’s because desis are perceived to be less westernised and less integrated, as I mentioned before (and of course they’re more obviously visible compared to white immigrants). The next-largest minority group, black people, has a greater cultural influence in mainstream British society than desis do, although this has been changing during the past 10 years or so (although 9/11 and 7/7 set this back to some extent).

    Bong Breaker,

    Has Islamophobia increased or is it simply talked about more?

    Both, in my opinion. Before 9/11 people here viewed Islam as “another Asian religion” and the average person didn’t know much about it, not even the differences between Islam and the “indigenous” South Asian faiths. To some extent I would even say that the “average person” didn’t even care. Matters have obviously changed due to local and global events during the past 5 years in particular.

    The fact that many Muslims, both local and worldwide, are being perceived to have extremely hostile anti-Western attitudes and are using Islam to justify their mindset is obviously going to increase hostility towards Islam itself.

    Experiences of desis I’ve read about, especially from Sikhs, in the US seem completely alien to me and my peers.

    True, but that’s because Sikhs here in the UK were already relatively well established, and pre-9/11, the combination of beard + turban was known to equal “Sikh”. I’m not sure what the recent influx of bearded & turbaned Pathans will have on this (go to Green Street and you’ll see what I mean), but since the latter are still relatively small here in terms of population, I don’t think the average Brit is going to mistake Sikhs for Muslims. Well, apart from the really ignorant type who propagated racist atttacks on gurdwaras as well as mosques post-7/7 because he couldn’t tell the difference. But I don’t think that’s representative of the mainstream British population as a whole.

    However, for those of us who are clean-shaven (both older and younger generations), I think there certainly has been some hostility on the part of white people who cannot tell what religion we are and assume we must be Muslims, especially those of us (eg. me) who look more Pakistani or Middle-Eastern than Indian (on average). Bongsy, you may have personally had different experiences, of course.

    But society at large hasn’t change its treatment towards Muslims

    I’m afraid I’m going to have to politely disagree with you here.

    and the government has been particularly soft on the hardline elements.

    Absolutely correct, as I mentioned a few times previously on this thread.

    That in itself has led to frustration from the public, people certainly are of the opinion that extremism is not being tackled effectively.

    Also correct, although I think that to some extent there’s a sense of confusion on the part of the British authorities with regards to how to deal with this, especially due to their fears of inadvertantly alienating the rest of the British Muslim population. Of course, the BNP is capitalising on this problem too, ie. “We’ll know how to solve ‘the Muslim problem’ effectively”.

  44. I’d guess the UK is more racist towards desis given that desis are the dominant minority. A better comparison would be desis in the UK vs. blacks in the U.S.

    Perhaps…certainly some here have drawn parallels between Pakistani ghettos in the North to the black ghettos the world hadn’t seen until Katrina. But then again there are more black people, as a percentage, in the US than brown people in the UK. Black people have been in the US for hundreds of years, browns have been here half a century. Black people were still being lynched mere decades ago in the US, Commonwealth citizens were entitled to English education and immigrants received the vote from the 1950s. We haven’t had a brown Rodney King or James Byrd Jnr. So trans-Atlantic comparisons are not easy to make.

    I’m not denying for a second there are racists in the UK, but I have a difficult time seeing them as more than a tiny minority, as opposed to this widespread fiction that ramanan paints. I can’t think of that many countries with as diverse a population which are less racist. France has a mixed makeup and far right politics plays more of a role than here; likewise Germany.