Last week, a Sikh woman was confronted by an angry racist mob while walking in a park in Southeast London with her daughter and friend:
[They] were out on a walk and … decided to go home when a crowd of around 20 boys and three girls started shouting racist abuse… The three made their way to their car but were confronted by the rabble minutes later. They hurled sticks, full beer cans and stones at the car causing slight damage to the windscreen. [Link]
The BNP is “wholly opposed to any form of racial integration between British and non-European peoples” While they got away unscathed, the racists also avoided punishment:
They escaped unhurt and called police. The victim says police told her no arrests could be made because officers said they were “outnumbered” by the horde of teenagers. [Link]
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p>The victim was petrified because Southeast London was where, in 1993, 18 year old student Stephen Lawrence was beaten to death in a racist attack:
“All I could think during the attack was, ‘This is something like Stephen Lawrence went through. It feels like we’re going to get killed’. [Link]
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p>Here’s my question to our British readers out there and those in the know – is this an isolated incident, or part of the rising tide of xenophobia? Is this incident part of the same phenomenon that led to the British National Party (BNP) doubling the number of council seats in the last election?
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p>For those of you just tuning in, the BNP is a right wing nationalist party in the UK that was once a fringe party but which has ominously gained strength recently as anti-immigration sentiment in the UK has grown:
The BNP declares itself “wholly opposed to any form of racial integration between British and non-European peoples.” It seeks to restore the overwhelmingly white makeup of Britain before 1948; its leader has called Islam a “wicked, vicious faith” [Link]
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p>Their pamphlets are openly racist:
Featured on the cover is a photo taken in 1953 on the day of Queen Elizabeth II’s coronation, showing a large group of white women and girls attending a party. Below are two more-recent photos of the neighborhood, showing black men and Muslim women in head scarves and veils. Large bold letters ask, “Is this what you really want?” [Link]
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p>And its critics link it to neo-Nazi groups around the world. Its anti-immigration positions have grown steadily more popular even though people are hesitant to support these positions when they are identified with the BNP. This means that the BNP has more support than the pollsters realize.
I had thought the time for open violence against brown people in the UK had passed as Asians became more recognized and accepted in mainstream British society. Was I wrong?
p.s. Ironically, I had earlier heard a BBC interview with a Pakistani couple who agreed with most of the anti-immigration sentiment that the BNP represents. They complained that the new immigrants had come in and taken advantage of government benefits without contributing much. They didn’t identify the new immigrants, though. If they were referring to Africans, this is unsurprising – there’s little news in brown-on-black racism. However, if what they meant was the recent influx of Polish immigrants, then it’s funny – brown people getting racist against white immigrants to the UK – Go back to Poland where you came from and leave the UK to the brown people! Unfortunately for them, the BNP wants to keep rolling back waves of immigrants until it can restore the UK to its “pristine” condition. It’s amazing how foolish people can be in their political affiliations sometimes.
Perhaps you are right Jai, w/r the general public’s treatment of Muslims. I realise I live in an atypical part of the country and socialise with an atypical group of people. Higher education, particularly science, has so many non-white faces that the white people tend to be more knowledgeable than your average Joe Bloggs about the different ethnic groups. I would really have to ask Muslim friends what they think.
I don’t think the UK is anywhere near as racist as it was when I was younger — things here have improved significantly over the last 15 years or so (consider the pariah status of Jim Davidson and Bernard Manning w.r.t their “jokes” aimed at Asians, and I can’t even imagine a character like Apu in a British cartoon these days).
However, there is overt racism and a more subtle version. The latter isn’t openly hostile but the person concerned isn’t necessarily going to go out of their way to be nice to you either. Both exist here in the UK, although it’s not as widespread as some people may fear. On the whole I would say that life for Asians here is a hell of a lot better than it used to be and certainly compared to some other parts of the Western world, and the fact that there is now an entire generation of white Brits who have grown up surrounded by desis (neighbourhoods/school/university/professional life/social life) and regard us as a normal part of British society also makes a significant difference, especially in London.
Although, again, it depends on social circle and individual personality, of course.
Jai wrote:
However, there is overt racism and a more subtle version. The latter isn’t openly hostile but the person concerned isn’t necessarily going to go out of their way to be nice to you either. Both exist here in the UK, although it’s not as widespread as some people may fear … Although, again, it depends on social circle and individual personality, of course.
I nominate Jai as Federal Reserve Board Chairman. Can anyone parse that paragraph?
I’m not denying for a second there are racists in the UK, but I have a difficult time seeing them as more than a tiny minority, as opposed to this widespread fiction that ramanan paints.
I’m not suggesting it’s rampant; i’m suggesting that things haven’t changed all too much in England as a whole over the last 30 years. I would agree London is probably a very different city now than it was 30 years ago. How much of an effect has that had on the country as a whole? I would suspect very little.
Also: I haven’t lived in London in 16 odd years. I can’t pretend to know what’s it like there now. All I am saying is that when I read a post like this, or when my father reads a post like this, our reactions are the same: it’s all the same shit.
Ikram, going one better and parsing the thread, this is my Cliff’s Notes version…
Some people dislike those who look different, other people don’t. Some people beat up those they don’t like, other people don’t. Some people change, other people don’t. People is people. ( And they don’t all live in the UK )
Now back to previously scheduled programming.
Peace
This poll seems related to what is going on…
In addition to what Bong Breaker already said… I find the BNP hilarious. Nick Griffin came on TV on election night and said his party was “not racist”. So in fact even the racists are on the defensive. Politically, it is unacceptable to be racist, though it’s becoming more fashionable to be anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim. While see the latter two as an extension of the former, a more nuanced approach in dealing with the latter two arguments has to be adopted.
[shameless plug] Hooray for the BNP vote [/shameless plug]
the modern tribalist news blog has posted a few stories just in the last week that give the impression that the situation is really deteriorating in the UK. how many people are aware that london now has a crime rate 7 times that of new york city?!
http://moderntribalist.blogspot.com/2006/05/total-crime-rates-for-london-have-been.html
and if this the kind of news that regularly makes the papers, then it is no wonder tensions between whites and south asians would be increasing:
http://moderntribalist.blogspot.com/2006/05/asian-machete-mob-in-racist-attack-in.html http://moderntribalist.blogspot.com/2006/05/injured-cyclist-slams-british-court.html http://moderntribalist.blogspot.com/2006/05/gang-of-asian-men-hurled-racist-abuse.html http://moderntribalist.blogspot.com/2006/05/british-police-are-trying-to-apprehend.html
also check out http://www.chavscum.co.uk/ for a unique insight into the “chav” culture of britain’s white underclass youth.
That’s one heck of a biased blog.
The rudest person I encountered in the UK was a desi woman at Heathrow. But my general observation is that Brits can be pretty grumpy & irritable. It could be the weather.
You guys seem to write essays on here…. lol….Whoever said england is full of racists is very very wrong.. I find Americans to be much more racist and culturally ignorant than the British (i’m talking about middle americans here, i’m a desi-american kid from Colorado and i lived in London for a year) My time in London was the best time in my life, i felt so ‘normal’ there and even in more rural places in England i never got stared at or got any stick for anything… There seem to be alot of Asians in the “subculture” in London as well, which you don’t find alot in america,.. Nothing cooler than going to a club in Camden Town and watching a band all your friends are raving about with a brown skinned lead singer.. it really seems they don’t make such a big deal about color of skin in england compared to the US as well… sorry for my poor grammar and spelling, my writing skills are definitely not up to par as most of you guys!
I agree with Sunit about the racism aspect, as London is truly one of the most multicultural cities in the world -ethnicity is embraced as a whole and it is a cultural hub! Rural areas tend to be accepting (when compared to other cities in Europe – I closely escaped being lynched by some Neo Nazi’s in Budapest had it not been for my conscientious European (German and Swiss) friends; although from speaking to many of my black friends, they seem to face more racism than the Asians – wonder why this prejudice still exists – it seems that black people are seen as more of a threat – even the Asians are racist towards them, hence the backlash!
On a political perspective and to do with the recent elections, although the BNP seem to be gaining votes, it is more to do with the inadequacy of the Labour party (many promises no delivery), the Conservative party hence gain a stronghold which is what the people seem to want! Since the BNP are a minority party, it is unlikely that they will ever have a stronghold and come to power! It would mean that society as we know it will deteriorate to oblivion if a party that cultivates hatred is allowed into power!
All the best and keep up the excellent blog Sepia guys! Ashanti OMkar http://www.OMkari.net http://www.aworan.net
pormeeoptheous rocks your links are laughably slanted. The seven times New York crime rate made the news here about a year ago – and was rubbished as although more petty crime was reported, serious violent and armed crime and MURDER were not included in the stats. Gun crime here is minimal, although it is on the rise. In those stakes, New York beats London hands down. To be frank, I’d rather have the London police than the NYPD (and I’m no fan of the police) but this is straying from the original topic of racism.
No doubt about that trend….
Another thing about ango-indians compared to indian-americans is the fact that there always seems to be Indians in the newspapers/magazines/TV/music, etc… in the UK compared to here… We only get “Harold and Kumar” or “Apu” with stupid accents; growing up in high school everybody would ask me if I can speak like Apu and nobody really took me seriously cause i was Indian.. I’m not even going to start on the racist comments i got after 9/11, anyways.. I think because of all of these things that happened to me with stupid ignorant middle-americans i have a pro-UK anti-american attitude right now… Do you think a band like Cornershop would ever make it to #1 in the USA? I don’t think so.. In America, most kids were laugh if they hear a sitar on mainstream radio, I was a happy man when Cornershop made it to #1 in the UK (yeeears ago), also its so nice telling someone you are indian and they don’t ask you to imitate the APU accent.. lol
Racist — you mean like not wanting Sonia Gandhi to be prime minister?
I assume all the Desis here realize that India is just as racist as any country in the world, right?
‘Racist — you mean like not wanting Sonia Gandhi to be prime minister?’ right. and we’re better at it because we manage to create races (and call them castes)where there aren’t any.
The American desis posting their biased and convoluted viewpoints here make me laugh, considering that it seems like a lot of their opinion is filtered through what their baba told them from his time “in UK” scurrying around Manchester or somewhere grim up north decades ago.
I have lived in the US for close to 10 years and in the UK for more than that. IMO, from my own experience, the UK and especially London is a lot more welcoming to a brown person such as myself than the US. For the reasons touched on in earlier posts: Indians are more high-profile and play a significant part in daily life. There are a number of brown people in every segment of society, from check-out girls to business tycoons and cutting edge artists. They are not pigeon-holed.
Hear hear to sentiments from BB and Rahul.
I’ve grown up in the UK and lived in the states for just 5 years. Asains are far more predominate in everyday society in the UK and at all levels. I do agree with the premise that there is some rasicm of course in the UK and more so now post 7/7/ towards muslims but it’s not as bad as it may seem . The rascism to Asains is a little like what happens to Blacks here in the US to an extent as someone stated but agin it’s not as bad . My mate who is a Black Brit living here in NY states she can’t walk down the street in Harlem with her white BF here in NY without getting stares and hassle….that surprised me that this still happens A lot of communites in the states are far more isolated by race than in the UK where there are hotspots like Bradford etc yes but nothing like it is here in the US where smetimes whole regions are predominately one race and the surrounding areas cater to that community in the types of shops, entertainment etc found…eg Russsians :Brighten Beach, Flushing : Chinese, NJ Jersey City: desis, NJ Palisades area: Korean and so on. It’s not a bad thing but i feel uk is far more integrated than people realise.
Surprised nobody mentioned that the wealthiest person living in the UK as actually a desi… I’m sure that helps our profile there as well
(btw, i’ve just started watching a few “goodness gracious me” sketches… i think alot of these would never be aired in america, especially the “lets go out for an english” scene
The Kriss Donald story does prove that prejudice and evil work both ways. See the posts re the Africans in India blog, and you will see the proof
I was quite curious about the black/desi relations in the UK compared to those in the US and the Caribbean. Are they equally the same? Do both groups get along or not?
Huey,
Younger-generation desis and black people generally used to get along very well and there was a lot of appropriation of black culture by the young desis concerned (to some extent there still is), but in recent years this has changed as British desis have grown in numbers and public prominence, along with the rise of an indigenous “British desi” subculture.
The two groups aren’t really as amicable towards each other as they used to be, broadly-speaking. However, it does depend on where you go and who you speak to.
Thanks. I have another question: What have black people done to have negative reactions and avoidance from South Asians?
Not all black people come from Uganda or Guyana. Do they ever learn about slavery or Jim Crow/Civil Rights Movement, etc. or anything about black/African American history before coming to America?
umm.. yea iv’e seen some comments on sikhs not supporting the BNP even though the BNp do say their are… well the reality is that their are alot of sikh supporters of the bnp me bieng one of them
The issue facing the world today is that the Muslims are trying to take over the world. I have spent 4 years in Iraq and Afghanistan trying to help these people. There is no help for a society that has chosen poverty and illiteracy because the other option would interfere with their religion. These people are never going to change unless they want to. If you are one of the individuals that has overcome the adversity to become a productive citizen then I respect that. although there are too many immigrants that just keep coming in and trying to stake claim in the U.S. in my opinion the borders need to be shut, and a nation wide illegal immigrant clear out needs to happen. That will prevent allot of the extremist bullshit that some of these brainwashed religious freaks have committed or attempted to commit on the soil of the US and the UK. When Australia told all of the immigrants “this is a Christian community if you don’t like it GET OUT” they were 100% right. These people expect us to be sensitive to their culture while we are in their country, but, they think they do not have to respect our religion and ways of life in the US. How would Pakistan like it if one of the leaders of the US had asked any and all willing Americans to go to Pakistan and have as many children as possible to turn it into a Christian society in the next 100 years? There would be a war from them. If you don’t want it to happen to your country! Then don’t do it to ours. There is no reason that things have to be this way, everyone has their own country that speaks their own language, and has their religion, go there and stay there do not mix in where you do not belong. Unless you are willing and able to drop all of the Muslim brainwashing about some degenerate that converted people at sword point, is a known Pedophile, and has no proof other than he said he saw something. Come on! There has got to be at least one of you in that faith that says WHOA!! I think that marrying a girl at the age of 6 and having intercourse with her when she was 9 is wrong and he needed to be shot for such an act. Get with the rest of the world and conform to where you are, don’t think the world will conform to you. Just to make a point, I do not claim any religious sect or belief just because of this crap, that all of the religious nut jobs think if they blow themselves up! They go to heaven. Bullshit!! What needs to happen, is when they detonate the bomb and blow them up, there needs to be someone that takes the remains and feeds it to the pigs. How about that for the extremist who tries it and lives. He would have a bad ending by the swineÂ’s!! And as for some type of recourse to the Iraqi militias, we need to give them some of their own medicine and start sending out car bombs of our own and see how they like it.
No all British are racist people or Anti-Asian, but in recent years the rate of racism has significantly increased. Reason?
1. The rise of Asia? (maybe afraid of India,Russia and China getting a better life), or joy to see asian living like dog. 2. British investing in asia causing unemployment in UK? or feeling uneasy to see asian getting a job which is lower paid, so call cheap labor. 3. Some lower class British people felt unbalance, when they saw rich “asian” businessmen/women?
4. Discrimination to those “asian” who had different believe? To force muslim to eat pork, forcing Buddist to eat beef, and forcing to chance their asian name to a BRITISH NAME!!!
All those above are assumptions. Most common things happen in Australia and USA!!! White dominant countries. Before you criticize Every Thing Above, Please read more historical articles, and history background on UK. You will find THE TRUE side of WHITE!