And what I loved most she had so much soul
She was old school, when I was just a shorty
Never knew throughout my life she would be there for me
On the regular, not a church girl she was secular
Not about the money, no studs was mic checkin her
But I respected her, she hit me in the heart
A few new york niggaz, had did her in the park
But she was there for me, and I was there for her
Pull out a chair for her, turn on the air for her
And just cool out, cool out and listen to her
Sittin on a bone, wishin that I could do her
Eventually if it was meant to be, then it would be
Because we related, physically and mentally
And she was fun then, I’d be geeked when she’d come around
Slim was fresh yo, when she was underground…
In the lyrics above from one of my favorite songs, Common laments about the debasement suffered by his true love, real hip-hop music. The BBC reports on a recent international hip-hop conference in Connecticut where it was evident that the love is being kept alive in other countries around the world, countries where artists treat hip-hop music how she was meant to be treated:
A recent international hip-hop festival which brought together rap artists from around the world has raised the question of why non-US rap is so political – whereas mainstream American rap appears frivolous… Rolando Brown, of event sponsors the Hip-hop Association, said the festival highlighted there was “more of a focus on positive community development” outside the US… We have been able to filter out the elements of sex, money and drugs – you don’t get that in Tanzania,” he explained.
“You don’t get airplay if you talk about these things in your music. Over 99% of the rap in Tanzania is in Swahili – and it actually has a political message to it.” “They are the records that sell and appeal to a wider demographic of people than any type of music…” [Link]
However, many artists in Hartford blamed the current preoccupations of US hip-hop on the music industry, and stressed they believe record labels and radio conglomerates are actively promoting negative stereotypes to bury rap with a positive or political message.
“Being sensational about violence or sex or drugs is a huge part of it,” said Chee Malabar, a rapper with Asian-American act The Himalayan Project. “It’s easier for Americans to buy into that than it is to look in the mirror and say, ‘some of the social policies and institutional hierarchies are messed up’.
“That’s hard to sell, and ultimately it’s about selling…” [Link]
The BBC article ends with a zinger that perfectly captures the current problem with the crap that passes for music on the radio:
“They don’t really want to hear about your opposition to George Bush – they’d much rather hear about what you want to do with George Bush’s wife,” she said.
“They don’t want too much politics or too much sociological content rammed down their throats, because they’re looking at rap as a fantasy – ‘if I can famous, I can get iced-out teeth as well’…” [Link]
foxy, listen pls: Hard kaur will forever have a special place in my heart for bottling a racist guy halfway through a conversation I was having with her. Now that’s worthy of respect! And one of my mates has been in love with her for ages so I keep hearing her praises. Admittedly, her music is iffy.
Cheap Ass Desi
It’s a dying form. Back in the early 90s this dude called Devang Patel released a tape on the down lo called Patel Rap. It was HUGE underground, a real cult classic at kitty parties and on long voyages through gujarat. The “rap” was awful but the collection included a superduper guju version of “we didn’t start the fire”, “aah jo kevo kaayar” (or summat like that). Patel later ‘sold out’ to Bollywood and turned his number van hit “Mari Marzi” (apache indian rip off) into “Meri Marzi” for the besht film in the universe, Gambler. From there he went on to covering such brilliant acts as Lou Bega and Venga Boys. Look the old guju stuff up on soulseek, limewire, etc and do yo bad guju self proud! And by proud I mean you will never recover from the shame. But I can’t lift this burden on my own dammit!
Oh god, Neha, I think I’m going to lose control… Was the rap in Gujarati? And the beats, what were they like? It’s wasn’t Navrati and Garba music, was it?
Who says Gujaratis can’t have their own beat?! Take that, Bhangra!!
Don’t have sharam…Patel Rap can’t be worse than gangsta Bhangra (Just kidding, everybody, just kidding).
lots of african hiphop floating around online, here’s one source.
appreciate the contributions re: various forms of desi hiphop, palestinian, etc etc. hiphop has worked well around the world because the musical foundations (MC + DJ) are easy to replicate, require little investment and honor the most universal and versatile instrument, the human voice. it also works because it has a role in giving voice to the previously voiceless, which is something that people around the world can relate to and emulate.
with reference to points made earlier in the thread, i would hope that folks consider american hiphop with the same degree of openness at they consider international hiphop. the whole “hiphop sucks nowadays” discourse annoys me no end. first of all, generalizing about hiphop is of little use now, late in the third decade of the existence of the form. hiphop has splintered, merged, morphed, cross-pollinated, etc., way beyond useful generalization. three decades after chuck berry and elvis presley, “rock” had produced punk, new wave, soft-rock/easy listening, hardcore, AOR, arena-rock, glam, etc etc etc. a lot of it sucked, a lot of it was brilliant, and a lot of it, hey, just appealed to different ears.
meanwhile, hiphop has infiltrated and added techniques, content, styles, rhythms, etc. to any number of other genres. why is it that when hiphop mixes with rock, we think of that are rock? when hiphop mixes with R&B, we think of that as hiphop? when you listen to mary j. blige, you’re hearing music that could not have happened without hiphop. so you might say, well, it isn’t hiphop because it’s not rapping over a beat. i’d reply, rapping over a beat isn’t hiphop either, according to connoisseurs. it’s rapping. rapping is a vocal style that you can bring to many genres of music. the orthodox definition of hiphop is that it is a specific culture with several core components: MCing, DJing, graf, and b-boying; some add further elements to do with consciousness, economics, education, etc. by that standard, very little of the hiphop you hear and dislike on the radio is actually hiphop.
thinking of music in categories is great if you’re a record label or a commercial radio station or an editor assigning stories. it’s not useful if you’re an actual listener. musicians themselves almost always have much broader listening tastes than do their committed fans. right now, if you came up with hiphop back when it was a more concentrated, focused concept, you can choose to be agitated about what is labeled hiphop today, or you can actually engage the music and start to figure out the differences, the local styles, the social and cultural facts they represent. you can listen to the atlanta and houston styles, for instance, and understand what makes them different; where their lyrical preoccupations come from; what’s up with their musical concepts (e.g. snapping in atlanta, screwed and chopped in houston) and what the history of those innovations is; and determine what you like versus what you don’t like from each style. you can go on to think about the rise of southern sounds and what that means about popular culture. and so forth.
if i’m feeling nostalgic about “true” hiphop from back in the day i’m not going to listen to tired-ass common with his whiny voice and preoccupations, a B+ rapper if there ever was one; i’ll go back in my collection and listen to rakim.
peace
I know it ain’t rap (or anywhere near) but Raghav of the untamed hair did a song to a garba/dandia (delete as appropriate, it all means the same to me) beat, Ain’t Nobody.
I used to know the dandia champion of Mumbai, fo’ shizzle, and he taught me some badass tricks. I even own my own set now, ch-chingcho.
Thanks for the contribution Sid, good to read. I had an argument about the elements of hip hop the other day, with an American no less, concerning whether beatboxing should be included. In fact KRS One said there are 9 elements, but I can’t remember them all – street entrepreneurs, clothes, language and something.
I used to know the dandia champion of Mumbai, fo’ shizzle, and he taught me some badass tricks. I even own my own set now, ch-chingcho.
Bong Breaker– even if you know some bad-ass tricks, it’ll probably be nothing compared to what I could do. I am the queen of dandiyas, I was born with a pair of dandiyas in my hand. I could play anyone like a drum… 🙂
Sid– I completely agree, American hip hop and rap need not be the constant point of reference in global music. But I have to admit, though, that some mainstream Italian and French rap kinda brings a smile to my face… but not in a mean way.
Oh I’m not claiming I’m any great dandiathlete, but for a half white Bengali, I’m probably hot shit.
What do you mean about French & Italian rap bringing a smile to your face but not in a mean way? You like it or you think it’s corny? French rap is awesome. There’s so much about France and in particular Paris and Marseilles that I love, French hip hop culture is very different and ostensibly wider and more inclusive. Italian rap, on the other hand, I don’t particularly like – to be fair I don’t understand it which can’t help.
Bong Breaker–
Sorry, but I don’t think you can beat a 100% Gujarati who was born to garba… 😉
Re: Fr. and It. rap bringing a smile to my face…. hey, have a smoke and relax!! I meant that mainstream rap, particularly Italian rap (of which I perfectly understand) sometimes is kinda corny, like there is this one called “Pappone” which means “Pimp”, and the video is alla Notorious B.I.G. but in Italian. I couldn’t help but smile there. Nothing malicious, though, in my smile.
bb – half-white bengalis are hot shit by definition! (especially the ones who listen to hiphop…)
I know! I never claimed I could, hence the opening line to my last post 🙂
MC Solaar is as mainstream as you get in France, he’s been likened to Will Smith in popularity across the board (not style) and he’s one of the best rappers in the world. I’ll believe what you say about Italian rap as I’m not very knowledgeable.
Now that many desi music videos have jumped on the bling bandwagon, can you imagine someone over there assimilating the whole “pimp” thing too and start using the word “Dalaal” instead ? The mind boggles…..joking
Actually, Abhishek Bachchan came pretty close to emulating the pimp-bling image in his video for “Right Here Right Now” from Bluffmaster.
Bong Breaker,
Can you spin a dandia in your hand like a drumstick ? I always thought that looked pretty cool — there was usually some flash git doing that during the times I last went to some garbas (extremely long time ago).
Woahoho, Sid! That was wicked, bip bip, buk buk, fire fire and all that!
za za za za za, zazazaza, za za za…I can’t stop, LL CJ needs to have my babies pronto.
I wish that beat were dandia styles but I don’t remember the Patel tune being very beat-heavy. I’m with BB on this tip:
When I was 11 I entered a bhajan competition (yes) at the Calgary temple and got second place to 16 year old (dhago) Raghav, he used to look so nice with side-parted hair in his kurta. Unfair, the dude was years older and had been in voice training since the womb. He does have a great voice, just wish he’d stop dancing. Isn’t Ain’t Nobody that tune where he sings a part of “gori tera gaon bada pyara, mein to gaya mara”? My mum and I have danced many a jig to that tune.
French hiphop is crazy good, they’re coming out with some wicked shit nowadays from France, Northern Africa, Quebec. MCs like TTC, Omnikron, and DJs like my beloved Ghislain Poirier and DJ Rupture are doing great things. Wish I could understand what they were on about, sometimes I hit up Ghis for a translation but his english ain’t perfect so things get lost. There’s always google I suppose.
ok… there goes the geisha fantasy
I am not a fan of hip hop – but i have enjoyed parkour videos and there isnt any other music that has the energy – i dont know if they’re talking drugs and pimping – but i cant imagine a practitioner doing dope and doing a backflip off a 6 foot wall (or may be not) – anyhoo – speaking of montral, another cool asian-canadian DJ out of montreal btw is kid koala and- wonder of wonders- i first heard of him through a gushing article in the national post (rightwing canadian rag, for you amreekis)
and BB, you dandiathlete, you’re enriching my vocab every day – keep at it old boy.
Neha, The years of bitter shame I felt as a child just disappeared. It seems that at least one person would have accepted me how I was. 🙂
That’s the badger Neha, jig away. So you lost a competition to him eh? I’ve been getting revenge for you. For you Neha, for you. Every party he’s at (and that seems to be a lot) we play ‘How can Rohin annoy Raghav today?’ I’m the world champion, but seeing as how only I play that’s not hard.
One of the classics was when a friend and I flanked him (that sounds dodgy) whilst he was trying to dance with some girls and we Raghav-danced, complete with wagging finger and baseball ‘safe’ manoeuvres. He’s a nice chap though. You like TTC? Hmm, I’m not sure. I don’t follow everything either (as I’m sure a lot of English speakers don’t follow everything Twista says!) but I once had to translate Au Pays du Gandhi by Solaar in its entirety. I think it was parkour that led me to the French hip hop scene. That and La Haine. Ha dhaavak just hit refresh and saw your mention of pk too. I don’t think rap’s the only music for it, the UK boys are more keen on rock and d&b.
Jai, yeah I can do that but my left hand’s iffy. One day I want to be up there with this brother.
I think I just lost brain cells watching that video…WHO THE HECK videos their hand? Spinning pens???? Since the advent of youtube and google video, nothing is safe.
was some dude jst trynna diss bhangra or somethin lol..i kno u gujrati man but dawg garba cant be compared to bhangra..just cuz its liek the level of energy is so different. some gujus might get mad cuz its their thing but man i kno a lotta gujus that dig bhangra anyday over garba or something but i dont kno any punjabis listenin to garba lol. neways im not trynna hate jst had to say somethin for that reply dat dude made.
p.s. bhangra is gangsta man because jatts r gangsta lol
That (talented?) person has too much time on his (brown) hands!
crap, I just plagiarized Taz – unintentionally! damn you, blockquote!
Aw taz, did you ever go to school with Malaysian/Singaporean/Korean/Japanese/Chinese boys? If not you won’t realise that pen-spinning is not only a rite-of-passage but also a pastime, a religion and a sport. Chemistry lessons were dedicated to who could spin an ink eradicator in the most imaginative way. It’s like table tennis – Indians are good, but never quite as good as their East Asian cousins.
ha! for all ye googlevideo fans… here’s some parkour for you… and i really dont know what the french guy’s saying (starts somewhere around minute 2) – but it totally gets me all bothered by minute 4 – want to go swing like a demon from the trees… -sigh- then i realize i’m not 20 no more and should stick to little granny moves –
Dhaavak I hate to be an ass, but that is lousy parkour. In fact, it’s not really parkour at all, it’s tricking. First rule of parkour videos – if the soundtrack is from the Matrix, particularly Clubbed to Death by Robb Dougan, don’t watch. Stick to stuff by Sebastien Foucan, David Belle or Cyrill Rafaelli (and YouTube’s better). Interestingly you saw one of my films the other day dhaavak, my first ever movie was parkour-themed!
Metric the pen spinner is Korean I think..?
Abhi, cry no more innerchild, cry no more. Boys aren’t the only ones with good vs. naughty fantasies. Besides, I used to have a deadly side part too, then a middle…A MIDDLE.
You, sir, are a good man. I hope there will be some tears, tears like the ones on my pillow that fateful day, TEARS…and hair loss. What? It’s bound to happen with all that product. Is he working or anything else or is he strictly shagging? His fans (my mum) are waiting!
Ya, I dig TTC, actually I dig a lot of whatever Big Dada throws my way.
Dhaavak – it’s ON, my friend, me + you + queen/spadina + cardboard mat + granny moves + random garba clapping = DANCE FIGHT.
Korean? aah well – don’t blame me for being confused. Here I go into a content-free, irrelevant comment: My granny had rather small eyes and no hair on her legs or arms, so as a youngster I would say, “Nana is Indian and Nani is Chinese” and would get corrected.. Screwed up my differentiation skills ever since.
damn, sparked a big debate eh? I have so much to say, but let me say this:
GIVE ME A BREAK. YOUR WHITE FRIENDS ARE OVERT CULTURAL CO-OPTERS, AND YOU ARE ENCOURAGING THEM TO DO SO. CONGRATULATIONS, YOU ARE A BROWN SAHIB.
hey bb to me it all looks like tricks :-)- beyond my reach – the best i can do is jump over fences and trash bins – so candidly am a worm in this ecosystem – will look up those giys on youtube
ok… my dirty confession – i’ve seen like one half- matrix movie – nodded off mid way in i think the last one and woke up when this guy was getting gouged by the metal earthworms – but i have picked up enough pop-culture references to sound knowledgeable in company tho’ – i completely know what you wre going for in your movie, and quite enjoyed it
ok man.. i am.. but you’re hurting my eyes buddy – pls off the caps lock
… anyway.
So, I guess my original point is not that culture is static or anything like that. My point is that sometimes desis act like we have inalienable unadulterated rights to Black music and culture.
I can’t speak for the UK. You guys actually do have a different sociopolitical landscape there. I know Asians and Blacks have mad tension but I also know there’s some connections there that are different from what happens in the US.
[Bong Breaker]
Definitely not my point at all. Hip-hop in the US has come from a wide strata of class backgrounds. Tribe Called Quest is undoubtedly middle-class hip-hop. Common grew up in a middle-class family. There are dynamics behind all of that too, of course…
My point is not class, it IS race. Race is the bottom line in America. So we need to pay attention to what has happened to Black art and culture historically in America. IT’S BEEN STOLEN. So many Black art movements have been stolen by whites, co-opted, and sold to mass audiences. Whites profit all around and the original creators of the music don’t.
So, as desis, we don’t have the power to co-opt the way whites do. We are people of color. So we’re not functioning by the same rules. BUT, are we serving a white supremacist co-opting system when we parade around acting like anyone has total rights to hip-hop — all in the name of “art”? Doesn’t that encourage co-optation?
Sorry if this is less articulate than my last comment, I’m writing at work.
Cheers dude. That was just a dumbass pisstake, it’s just one scene from the lamest movie ever made. But lots of fun and we showed it at uni with my pk/breaking one on a two storey high screen with a big audience, was awesome. The other stuff I do involves more work, but less gags.
Please tell me you’ve seen The Matrix (1) though? Sod the other two, but you’ve seen one right? RIGHT?!
ok some recommendations before dinner (I take back the YouTube superiority, GV seems to have more): 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
Listen Again: Yo– I’ am not a dude, but a chokri; and even though I am Gujarati, I love Bhangra, as I grew up with it (I have had close ties with a large number of Poon-jis).
Are you hating?
Look, you claim that Poon-ji Jats are gangsta,– BUT THEY ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES. Didn’t you read Neha’s post? There are Gujurati gangstas as well– look at Patel Rap!!
Don’t get me into talking about the genre “gangsta” Bhangra, or I’ll have a few choice words for you 🙂
Confession- I’m posting without reading the thread…
So I watched this amazing trailer last night on Hip Hop in the middle east. It is SERIOUSLY dope.
It sparked a conversation on is punk political? Is hip hop political?
I love outlandish! I was the biggest fan of Guantanomo…
We also watched this video of Ecko tagging Air Force One…
I’m listening to Saul Williams right now, and it reminds me of how he opened for Mos Def at USC, and there was a group of white kids with coke bottles in the air singing along with his racially political songs. It was …uh, interesting…
(Now I’m going to read the thread… 😉 ) Speaking of Co-opting race and culture- check out this Regatone artist, he’s like HUGE, all the chicano chicks love him- But he’s full on Pakistani and moved to So Cal, but I don’t think anyone knows that he’s South Asian. I just outed him. sorry. http://www.myspace.com/caponee
hmmm… why did i just have the vision of mr. bean on the dance floor – shakes head – but you’re On Lingus – but queen/spadina – surely not the horseshoe, eh? – or is it some underground spot – thinks- should i bring out sequined jammies – speaking of cool jammies — ooo if it sounds like i’m feverish today – daddy’s going to get a new bike kidods – and he’s going hammer-style right now – cant touch this… :-))) ))) ))) )) ))))) ngahahha
umm.. – scratches head – bows head in shame – no.
How about Neha hosts a Toronto meetup, and she and Dhavaak provide the entertainment 😉
It’s already in the works my friend – going to be the hawtest party ever!
We should have it a roller-rink! Or are roller rinks too pervy for people our age??
I mean old school style, less money less problems, out in the open on the footpath. I’ve got my bike leggings with neon green down the side, a hypercolour sweatshirt, and shiny fake gold things.
Ennis, come to Toronto, see how much fun we have?!
Meetup is a great idea…after this weekend (bf’s dad’s coming to town) I’m going to get my act together an organize one for whoever is in town…
Abhi – didn’t you tell her about the rule that you have to be single to host a meetup? Otherwise, as with the Beatles, “our fans will be disappointed” 😉
Speaking of which, I’ll be in NYC for a few weeks at the end of May and beginning of June. I should host one there, now that the Vij is gone …
err…by ‘bf’ i mean ‘best friend’. honest. 🙂
familiar with THE1SHANTI? He’s currently providing the necessary ambient noise for take home testing. i swear it helps me focus.
a drop from his bio:
in my mind’s eye … i can see two roller derby teams – the “hello kitty“‘s and the “emily the strange“‘s – the metric and the lingus can duke it out on who gets to lead which team – hehehe. i’d be happy ref’ing it.
I went to my first roller disco a few months ago. Don’t worry – it was a private function so everyone was my age, no little girlies to scare. Man that shit is cool, especially when you turn up with a girlfriend with pig tails and hot pink skates! But kind of gets dull once you’re done showing off. There are few people who enjoy showing off as much as me, but yet I kind of tired of it after a few hours. But hell, if the TO meetup turns out to be the first meetup on wheels, with a Neha-dhaavak dance-off, I’ll frikking fly there.
Ranjit I still don’t agree with you, but cheers for the clarification.
For the woefully uninitiated, I bring you the Patel Rap!
then… you must die.
The laughing yoga uncle may have been replaced as the greatest thing I’ve found on SM. Awe. Some.
Sounds like half the white lines bassline in the background.
Now that S*** was FUNNY. Also funny, video #1 that BB sent out. Who would have known that mutineers have so much free time on their hand…
the second best meet-up place to a roller-rink would have to be an old-school disco with light up floors and steps. why did those ever go out of style? WHY?!! And they all closed down right around the time I was born – ang came into the world and all the fun went out of it…. sob I’ll just have to go to the Ukraine or Poland to get a taste of that old-skool love. Night clubs these days are sooo boring – just standing around staring at everyone else posteuring – bah!
third best meet-up place: bowling alley…. glo-bowling, of course.
DJ Poonani-jaabi:
When I clinked on that link and saw the website, I felt the call of the Desh tugging at my heart.
On another note, I would like to say that having been a Bhangra veteren and honorary Punjabi for quite some time now, I feel very nostalgic when I listen to old school Bhangra, like AS Kang, Safri Boys, Malkit Singh, Apna Sangeet and others. The old boliyans stir my emotions and bring tears to my eyes. It is a sensation similar to when uncles and aunties get all choked up and glassy-eyed when they listen to old Kishore Kumar, Mohammed Rafi, and Lata Mangeshkar (80 years ago, when she first came out to make her debut) geet.
Neha– when your DANCE-FIGHT takes place, let me know, and I’ll show up with my deadly, spiked dandiyas. For all of you who are caustically poking fun at Garba, let me see if any of your dadis can spin the way mine can after 7 hours of non-stop swirling at the annual Navrati Garba held at some gymnasium.
IT’S ON.
The bassline from Patel Rap is similar to the “White Lines” bassline but I dont’ believe it to be the same. Interesting story behind the “White Lines” bassline however. From the wiki:
The bass line [From Grandmaster Flash’s “White Lines”] is sampled from (The Sugar Hill House band playing) Liquid Liquid’s “Cavern.”
The real question is, did the Sugar Hill Gang ever record a totally original song?