Ever since I got my nano, I have been obsessed with downloading podcasts. Since there isn’t a Sepia Mutiny podcast for me to download (ahem) I do the next best thing and listen to a Desi Dilemma, a podcast by a woman named Smitha Radhakrishnan. This week’s series on ‘Desi Love’ perked my ear up- seeing as how the search for a ‘suitable mate’ is always at the forefront topic for most mutineers (or so it seems).
“There was a clear message from the Indian community about dating, that it was somehow inextricably linked with the most dangerous, scary thing that could befall an ABCD kid; an identity crisis.”
As has been mentioned before on this blog, as an ABCD youth one often had to deal with the projection by your peers that the only people you were expected to date is that one other desi in the school, even though you had nothing in common with them. Forget the fact that you weren’t allowed to date; if you had been, there was no one there for you to date, in the often confusing bi-cultural high school years. For me, this reminds me of senior prom. And prom reminds me of how my mother wouldn’t let me go to prom unless I went with my gay guy friend because only then would she know nothing would happen to me on prom night. How’s that for bi-cultural confusion?
Though in the realm of desi pride now, growing up there was also the conflict of trying to fit in and be as American as possible. I recently received the following e-mail:
I came to US at a young age, I faced discrimination from those who were born here… they acted like they were too good for me…Then as I made closer friendship with Americans to avoid all the bulls***t south Asians were giving, the new comers from south Asia started giving me the same crap. Eventually I became this “white boy” among SAs..Of course, I have learned to deal with such issues as I’ve grown up …But this question has always lingered in my mind… why do SAs hate each other? What makes US born’s better than those who come here? And how is it that those US born’s turn SAs so quickly during college years, and see those whom they disdained for being SA in the first place still as different?
Now that I’m older and in the ivory tower I can use big words like assimilation and racialization to analyze the divide in the generations, but really, when you’re just a kid in school, all you are trying to do is fit in. Being able to analyze this factor of bi-cultural identity now doesn’t make dating for a 20-something female any easier. In fact, knowing the internalized identity issues simply makes searching for love all the more confusing. There’s desi chick lit trying to manuever around it, and I regularly read a various group of blogs by single desi females all talking about similar issues. We are bombarded with desi dating websites, as well as pressure from family. Until that tab for Sepia Destiny is created, what’s a single girl got to do?
As Smitha asks in her podcast, and I’d like to further pose to you on this lazy Saturday afternoon,
“Are there things about being desi that give us a different set of expectations about our love life and our marital lives than our non-Indian peers?”
Oh pfft. Does everything have to turn into a pro-life rally? Or can we not actually ever talk about our personal experiences without having to discuss how our actions offend the church fathers or the particularly sanctimonious? And if you want people to accept your opinions, give a little and hear them out too without jumping on it immdiately as something you think you need to comment on and condemn.
As for your post being taken off – see that little disclaimer right above where you’d be typing? It’s there for a reason. I’d wager you fell somewhere between non-issue and non-funny with perhaps some intolerant thrown in? You’re on a site called Sepia Mutiny – not Sepia let’s-maintain-the-status-quo-and-harangue-people-whose-life-choices-are-disagreeable-to-us. A little bit of an open mind, please.
hey Al,
I mean that sometimes I do feel sympathetic towards FOBS when they get dissed but when you look at some other FOBS who act like jerks, you do feel that they deserve to be treated that way.
I agree. That rant (and yes it was a rant) from not so much was annoying as hell. It wasn’t the difference of opinion that irritated me it was the way it was presented and the way temporarily in disguise was attacked. Uncalled for. Make your choices. Share them here. All good. Putting someone else down for their choices. Unacceptable. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That’s what maks SM worth visiting everyday.
just curious about your personal experience – how did your relationship come about and what was the fallout – i think this is relevant on the forum if positioned right.
other thoughts.
i knew of a couple of women come over from india, in grad school – who had some unpleasant experiences – the relationships meant more to them than to the guys – and in each case the guy used different flavors of “come on, you’re not in india any more. loosen up a little” line – one of them got preggers with a palestinian guy who really messed her head up and she left school shortly thereafter, the other one did well, and went on to her PhD – so while i appreciate the the personal tell-alls with the tinge of pathos, the whinges-r-us gets my goat because they’re really confusing issues by the sepia bashing – and suggesting there is something patently insular about india/indian guys.
net net, more JOAT, less goat.
Not So Much,
I didn’t call you a fundamendalist nutcase because you have problems with abortion. I called you that because your response to someone confessing a very personal secret, on a delicate matter, and asking for others’ input, was to trample all over them. This demonstrated an insensitivity which characterizes all fundamentalism.
It’s true, you don’t 🙂
oh, no worries :). i had a lot of fun and made several good friends, only not with abds i knew at that point.
but like i said, i have met several nice abd’s since, and i definitely don’t have a grouse now. some fobs can be obnoxious, as can some abds.
but isn’t it nice that i only have to use one abbreviation for australians and americans? 🙂
ah the difference between “dreaded” and “endearing” here is how you behave in other aspects :). for example, a resonant “vat” in perfect pitch still sounds better than a nasal “what” off-key :).
shruti, i think you get my drift. but hopefully i don’t think i wasn’t driven into a chauvinistic position at least in gender relations, definitely not to impress someone. but all that is history though.
You’re astroturfing comments by pretending to be multiple people. Abusive posting -> ban.
NSM, your opinion is welcome. I actually like to hear about peoples’ experiences and decisions re: pregnancy termination, but it’s when words like calous (sp) and selfish get thrown about that it starts to look less like sharing your opinion and more like passing judgment on someone based on 5 lines of text.
I disagree with your politics but I won’t attack your character. Even if I sort of want to.
If you had an opinion I missed it. Because I didn’t see you saying “I’m against abortion and I made a choice to have a child instead”. All you did was attack someone else instead for simply stating what was a smart choice for them at the time. That isn’t an opinion. That is just rabid behavior because someone else made a choice you didn’t agree with.
It isn’t your opinion on abortion that made your remark uncalled for it was the way you presented it which was tasteless. Understand what an opinion is first and please do learn to present it a little better. Is it so hard to admit that you made a poor choice in words? No one really cares whether you didn’t have an abortion or for that matter someone else did. That isn’t the point. Being rude to someone in an open forum is.
You must be new to the forum because you obviously seem to have missed some seriously heated debates that go on in this forum all the time and people don’t resort to name calling nitwits. Hell two of the bloggers don’t see eye to eye with each other yet exist in the same space. If that isn’t tolerance I don’t know what is.
“Admin, did u ever think that two people from the same hosuehold or living conditon can be reading sm and have separate things to say? if this was a college dorm, and we all read sm, but shared one computer and one connection, we end up having the same IP. they have comments on right now, check the IP, not the same.
then to be fair, take off temp in disguise as well, they are pretending to be someone else as well.”
Yes, you’re right – the administrators can see who’s veiled and who’s not…. but I’m pretty sure they aren’t going to reveal someone (or even bother looking) at someone who is “temporarily in disguise” if they’re revealing a painful and/or personal experience to share with SM. Frankly, with all the judgement going around, I am not in the least surprised that some would prefer to stay anonymous. However, if someone is trying to strengthen their point by posting under several names (to make it seem like there are many in agreement), I’m pretty sure that’s up for removal. If you have a good argument, one name should be enough.
By the way, “selfish” and “callous” ARE judgemental words to be hurled at someone.
Now, can we get back to the wonderful, revealing discussion we were having here?
oookay… now we’re debating about debate. Back to the point?
t-i-d: the only thing harder than coming out that I can imagine is telling the parents about pregnancy. If telling them would have broken you, I don’t see how an abortion could in any way be seen as “selfish”. It is really difficult enough to deal with the accusations that having a sex life is ‘selfish’ not honouring your parents is ‘selfish’ – if not having these rants is what keeps everyone healthy mentally and relationally – and you have the same right as the next person to be whole, then any choice you make that would destroy your self worth is unreasonable. …thanks for sharing your story.
Too bad you ruined the possibility of a valid post by tainting it yourself with …
Screaming louder doesn’t make anything more true. Quite a few people pointed out to you the fallacy in your making the above statements which do attack a poster and do attack their choices made in the past! Yet you chose to get on your high horse and scream at everyone trying appear insulted. The one that needs to get over themselves is you my friend because no one really cares about the choices you or anyone else made. A rude comment is a rude comment is a rude comment.
Meena…welcome and it’s a wonderful step. Don’t worry about having little or no knowledge about all things Indian, no one here makes that claim either. Where are you located and why is it 10X worse where you are?
Janeofalltrades, I live in the Netherlands, where supposedly there are junkies and prostitutes on every corner of the street, everyone has had a gay marriage, smokes pot and kills old people. At least, that is how we are perceived in the outside world. A colleague of my father’s seriously received a mail from an Indian who had been offered a job in the Netherlands, and was wondering whether there was a lot of promiscuity in schools here. This man has child who is only just ready for primary school! It was slightly disturbing to say the least.
That said, I do have two desi (girl)friends. One has sadly already defected to the USA. The other is not intent on staying in the Netherlands for the rest of her life either. Most desis who come here are either temporarily employed or leave anyway after a few years. The Indians who have been staying here for a long time send their children to International schools. I was one of the few who went to a Dutch school, though my mother was against it in the beginning, my father convinced her it was for the best. Obviously I can’t identify much with these children either, not in the least because they don’t speak proper Dutch and aren’t very assimilated into the society.
As a final note, somethings I say might be interpreted a bit wrongly, but that is most probably because my English really isn’t up to the standard of the others who post on this site, since Dutch is the primary language of schools in this country.
Meena, goedag:
Your English is great. Sorry if my post earlier seemed critical – it wasn’t meant that way. Lived in Belgium for a couple of years, and though it is different from the Netherlands, I can see how the situation would be very different from that faced by N.A. desis. The isolation must be a lot greater, especially with the increased polarization between muslim immigrants and dutch people. Indians don’t fit into either category. On the other hand, I was always told by my Belgian friends that Amsterdam is extremely diverse and easy for immigrants of all nations to live in. Is this true?
I’m going to shamelessly advertise the proposed Delhi meet-up (late July?) discussed on another thread. If anyone’s headed Delhi-side maybe we can continue some of this discussion in person? Any SM bloggers going to be around? Holla back, y’all.
The way you phrased your post drips of misogyny. However, with that said, IÂ’ll try to give you the benefit of the doubt and address what I think you were trying to say.
As I see it, we should ALL (men, women and children) be actively questioning and confronting patriarchy at every possible opportunity because it binds and bounds ALL of us in a million different ways. It seems to be me that the statement you made, as crass as it was, begins to touch on ways that you have perhaps felt bound by your (IÂ’m assuming youÂ’re male) own gender conditioning. ItÂ’s certainly something that IÂ’ve wondered about. My father, who is interested in all kinds of things, really had no choice but to go into engineering because he felt the pressure of being the one who would need to support a family. If he hadnÂ’t felt that pressure, could he have been a great poet, dancer, singer (definitely not, IÂ’ve heard him in the shower), journalist, or (if he wanted to) engineer? My mother had to fight her ass off against her extremely strict father to be able to take art and music classes because thatÂ’s what she adored. Sadly, it was perhaps only my grandfatherÂ’s passing on at an early age that gave her greater freedom to do so. Fast-forward thirty years and my mom decided that she wanted quit her job to stay home and paint and take music lessons and for her that was a possibility. For my father, that would never be a possibility. He loves his job too much to ever consider it anyway, but IÂ’m just saying.
The point I’m trying to make is that it’s not ‘patriarchy, ha! I win, you lose!’ We all lose.
When I told my parents about the decisions I had made regarding my career, one of their primary concerns was how I would support a family. I laughed off their concerns at the time, which I shouldn’t have done. Their concerns were genuine, but came from a different time and place. Nevertheless, men today (and I absolutely include myself in this), I feel, are perched on a kind of fragile masculinity. That is, we (many of us, I hope) have realized that there is something fundamentally wrong with the way we, and men of previous generations, were taught to be men, but we haven’t figured out ‘what next’? I think what’s next is that we should begin to realize that this is a struggle that we are all (men, women and children) engaged in and we’re all on the same side. Win or lose.
dharmaqueen:
I don’t leave near Amsterdam actually, I live in a town quite a distance from it. Now it’s a more multicultural place but when we just moved here it was 99% white, and stayed that way for the longest time.
I actually imagine that Belgium must be a little harder to live in than in Holland, because the extreme right has a stronger foothold there than in this country. Of course my perception must once again be skewed since I have never actually lived there.
Yes, there is increased polarization between the Moroccan and Turkish populations, and the indigenous Dutch. However as far as I know in the mind of most Dutch we Indians are not grouped together with either of these groups of immigrants. To be fair to both sides the Dutch can be quite prejudiced about Muslims especially, but on the other hand this group(not Indian muslims generally, but more the people of Middle-Eastern descent) also makes things difficult for themselves by rioting(e.g. the Danish cartoons).
sigh amen, PMG. High five.
Meena said, in regards to Desis in the Netherlands :”The Indians who have been staying here for a long time send their children to International schools. I was one of the few who went to a Dutch school, though my mother was against it in the beginning, my father convinced her it was for the best. Obviously I can’t identify much with these children either, not in the least because they don’t speak proper Dutch and aren’t very assimilated into the society.”
I’m sorry to go off on a wild tangent but it’s not often I have a quote like that to work with. That quote is VERY analagous to urban kids in India educated in English-medium schools. They don’t speak proper (any Indian language) and are not assimilated into (here goes) Indian culture (I know, I know, culture is hard to define, a slippery concept, ever-changing etc etc. and I have no right to say anything about it). But it’s my opinion.
PMG,
You may have noticed some whinging from a lot of desi women on this thread about wanting to meet a great desi man —
Can we clone you?
Did NOT mean to offend anyone. It’s true I have no right to make judgements on who is and who isn’t assimilated into anything, nor can I define Indian culture. It’s just my opinion.
Yeah PMG where you at? And where are the rest of your bretheren? 🙂
Actually, in the two-three years that I was living in India I went to a convent school(thus Christian, thus English-medium).
Even here in the Netherlands my parents never really bothered with upholding our language and culture.
PMG said:
PMG, your entire comment was so well-written and articulate, I had to say something. There has been so much discussion and dialog on emerging roles for women, and the changing definition of the feminine ideal, but the perceived or preferred role of men in the community and family life doesn’t seem to be evolved. Like your father, had my father been given the opportunity to do anything other than a 9-5 job to support his immediate and extended family, he would have jumped at it. But alas, that was not to be. Today so many of us – male or female, regardless of where we were born and raised – have the luxury or privelege of questioning our place in society and asserting it without even realizing it.
Just random, mid-afternoon pre-coffee thoughts here. On a less ponderous note, your comment also reminded me (for some reason) of the emerging “masculine ideal”: ubersexual.
Quote from Rama:
“millivanilli and others…one thing I’ve noticed among many ABCDs is the idea that they are “not the average ABCD”. The interesting thing is that this seems to be the norm and not the exception. This is essentially holding (most) other Indians to a stereotype, but not yourself. It seems to me that you may be judging white people more as individuals, while judging brown people more as a group. Why not grant the brownies the same privilege of being judged one at a time?”
You make a GREAT point and I appreciate being called out about this. Don’t think I haven’t posed the same questions to myself; it’s definitely something I struggle with, understanding my own desi identity within the larger context of “Indian-ness,” whatever that is. I am constantly challenging myself to be more open-minded towards ALL Indians — whether I view them as alterna, mainstream, fobby, etc. I will admit that I have been absolutely myopic in my view towards FOBs; I have disparaged mainstream Indians; in general, been very immature about my judgments of Indian people, which have definitely been more harsh than necessary. I suppose I chalk it up to youth and a lack of exposure to a variety of Indians. (In some ways, I’ve done that to myself — I’ve grown up in places with huge Indian communities, but I distanced myself from them on purpose). In my older age (ha ha), I’ve been blessed with friends who run the gamut of desiness. In creating friendships with them, I’ve realized that I have to start giving people a chance as individuals, instead of dismissing them because I think they fit into some stereotype that I’ve shoved them into before even really getting to know them.
That being said, let me at least say a couple words on why I do continue to make distinctions between mainstream and alterna-desis. I don’t think it can be argued that I was, in fact, very different from the Indian peers within my community. I can only speak to that experience, as I’m sure communities in other states/countries have their own cultures (and I’m sure communities differ by Indian region as well). I was the very first person to have a secret boyfriend; the first to lose my virginity; the first to get drunk; the first to do drugs; the first to get arrested; the first to go to underground parties; the first to leave home; the first to travel the world by myself. And when I say first, I mean, YEARS before anyone of my Indian peers in my community. Those things do NOT make me cool or better, oh god no. But, they did set me apart from the other Indians my age, who, by and large, judged me and ostracized me. I truly believe that the mindset I developed towards mainstream desis was a reaction to being judged by them for so long. When I started college, the SASA/ISA groups actively tried to recruit people, invite them to dances, etc. I started college with a shaved head and a couple piercings; immediately I got a reputation as being “wild” or “different” and I was never once invited to participate in desi events. An officer in ISA even told a friend of mine not to bring me to a dance because I didn’t fit in with the ISA crowd. I had never even met this person before, so WTF was that all about? They didn’t give me a chance as an individual and the funny thing is that in many ways, I am more traditional than those people. I did occasionally attend some ISA events with Indian friends, where, once they got past my external appearance, they made fun of me for being a) south Indian, b) religious (Hindu), and c) vegetarian. They were more interested in talking Bollywood than going to the temple; that ain’t my thing, but I never openly criticized them!
I think I can say that I am “not the average ABD” because my personal and anecdotal experiences tell me so — my list of “firsts,” for example. I almost never saw fellow desis out at the parties I went to in high school, people shunned me because I did drugs, there were rumors that I was a slut even though I barely had a sex life in college!! When they eventually started to party a bit, they made fun of my bars/clubs because they were too “dirty” or “divey” and instead preferred going to places that were frequented by yuppies. Fast foward a decade later and now these same people are asking me what the good club nights are and asking me to score drugs for them. Sorry if I feel a little resentful towards these people and remain suspicious when I see or meet someone who, on the outside, appears to be part of this crowd that left me on the fringe for years.
millivanilli a big hug to you. You sound like a long lost sister. Like you I went way extreme and made a 180 degree turn at some point in my life, a few decades later. I actually ended up just fine.
I still keep a large portion of the general desi community at a healthy distance. Interestingly like you when I didn’t fit in people made up things about me to entertain themselves and satisfy their egos. I was the “bad girl” when I was and have been far more traditional then their “good” daughters who were having sex in the backseat of daddy’s car, smoking pot every chance they had and barely wearing anything underneath the clothes they walked out of the house with and removed later.
This is where the sad stereotypes come from and they are hard to break when people keep falling into the same trap everytime you meet someone new. I never realized how much the desi community (in the west) is all about the validation of a woman’s existence which can only come from a father or a husband. If you aren’t living under your fathers roof you must be running a brothel from your house! Nevermind that you work two jobs go to school and worry about paying rent. If you aren’t married but live life without apologizing for your existence and acutally appear happy you must be out to steal their potbellied married men or a hussy of some sort.
Yes this is the sad desis in the west, you can leave Indian behind 20 / 30 years but not the Indian mindset. Hell today there isn’t even a Indian mindset in India in the progressive new generation. And this mindset in my opinion is best ignored and not assimilated with. I have no qualms about keeping my distance from them.
Millivanilli:
They made fun of you for being South Indian? Of all the things I’ve read on this thread, that’s the most upsetting. I’m north Indian background myself but in the Indian cliques when I went to college/post-college etc. I don’t recall that being an issue. Looking back on it though, there may have been a certain pressure (mostly that women imposed on other women) to be into Bollywood.
Oh, I can’t tell you the number of times I heard rude comments about South Indians — our food is tasteless mush, we have a backwards culture, we’re not modern, we’re oppressed for largely being vegetarian, our temples are not as pretty, etc. Blah di blah. But I love being S. Indian so I just let it roll off my back 🙂
where did you catch these nuts?
Oh, minivanilli, I can completely identify with the South Indian thing. There are/were a majority of North Indians in my community, and while they didn’t make fun of me, I did hear a lot of comments regarding how surprised they were that I was South Indian at all – that I didn’t look ‘dark’, didn’t watch ‘lame South Indian movies’ and eat ‘smelly food’, etc. etc. I’m sure that North Indian vs. South Indian cultural differences and social issues have been debated to death on other threads, but I just wanted to say that there are desi dating/desi issues, and within them, a range of issues depending on where in India you or your family are from.
yeesh. I had no idea about this kind of polemic. I mean there’s clearly a North-Indian bias in terms of representation in any desi group and the North-Indian hegemony is kind of obvious but I didn’t realise it translated to this kind of blatent racism. Gah – how vile.
DQ and JOAT – Thank you for your very kind words, I’ll let my blushing speak for itself 🙂
VBSF – Thanks for your comments, and I absolutely agree with you that there isn’t nearly enough discussion going on about any of this. I was really lucky to have gotten the opportunity to participate in an excellent workshop organized by DVRP in DC last year for A/PI men to discuss masculinity. It was a really intense, heartfelt, funny and thought-provoking discussion, and one that definitely needs to be going on all the time, but that isn’t. At one point in that discussion the group leader asked us to go around the room and talk about the “strongest” man in our lives. Prior that we had been discussing strength and masculinity and trying to open up what strength and power and all these very “masculine” words actually meant to us. Anyway, when it came to the question of the “strongest” man many of us were clearly stumped. Here we had just been deconstructing notions of the masculine, and so no one was going to say “Hulk Hogan”, but then what were we left with? After some thought and some hesitation people started coming up with really interesting answers about what “strength” meant to them and the men in their lives that personified that strength. Things like being a loving person, caring about those around you, growing and maturing with age, etc. It’s amazing to think about how much that short session of sitting around with men I don’t know and talking about masculinity affected me and continues to stay with me. Which only speaks to how rare and how necessary these kinds of workshops are.
One resource that might be of interest is the Exploring Masculinities South Asian traveling seminar. Parts of the website are still under construction, but they have some very interesting links up.
almost off topic, but.. anyone who heard the desi love podcast recognize the music at 4:15?
Totally agree dxdydz & millivanilli. The North-South thing emerged especially I found in university. India, for the ISA crowd, consisted only of the North. When my friends tried to suggest that the cultural shows etc should include S.Indian culture, they met with considerable resistance, based on some of things alluded to in the previous comments. They then suggested that it should be called the North Indian Students’ Association, but not surprisingly that didn’t go over too well either. 😉
I do think things might be changing a bit (hope so anyway). The prevalence of South Asian Students’ Associations might attest to a more inclusive university scene. As with everything, though, I’m sure it depends on where you are.
And, on the dating front,(back to the thread) this issue arises again and again. Now, honestly I think/hope much of that is when you are seeking a partner who has things in common with you, the incredible diversity of South Asia means that you will have more in common with someone from the same geographic region as you (or your parents). That being said, I also think that there are probably other more malignant forces afoot as well (skin colour being one of them).
At #129, Shruti wrote:
I thought this was a really interesting comment, and I’d love to hear more if folks would like to discuss. I also wonder if this falls along alterna-desi lines. Funnily enough, most of my alterna-desi-sistas actually lean away from dating white guys when they date interracially. Part of this is probably b/c we live in California, which generally is more diverse, but I have my theories on why this tends to be the case. But actually, this is probably not just alterna-desis but desis in general, depending on regionality, generation, etc, perhaps?
I must have missed the (what appears to be, in quotes) truly vicious posts that were flying back and forth earlier. Kind of happier for it, to be honest.
And so bummed to hear about the North-South hate! It’s funny, I’ve always grown up with South Indians and never seen this, but always heard horror stories from my Southie friends from other areas. As a person hailing from the North-desh, I just have to say, the food is great, as is the film/dance and the temples. 🙂 Not to totally exoticize or homogenize all of South India…
Also, PMG, thanks so much for sharing. Your posts have been super thoughtful and great to read. Overall, despite my general aversion to “desi love” conversations, I’ve really been enjoying these discussions, and not just b/c I’m avoiding my thesis 🙂 The posts flying back and forth are awesome, yay for the mutiny.
um about the south indians being vegetarian comment: aren’t gujus the majority of abcd’s in the US and definitely the majority of north indian abcd’s in the us. not sure about fob’s. anyway gujurat maybe the state with the largest %age of veggies in india. im not sure if most si’s or non veg. well definitely in kerala at least(a lot of hindus there supposedly eat beef). my parents are tamil brahmins from kerala. a lot or perhaps most of our non brahmin tamil friends in fact i think most eat at least chicken. although maybe some of them just switched when they came to the us i don’t know.
i don’t know if gujus are the majority of abcd’s in america… but more and more i come across 2nd/3rd generation abcd’s gujus who have not kept up with their vegetarian ancestors/parents… i’ve come across more south indians who have kept up that cultural belief… and the south indian food isn’t smelly..it’s delicious… love that and good guju home cooked meals–the veggie guju bean…
While the North-South cultural bias might be present in other North Indians, I have felt this to be the strongest from the Punjabi crowd. A lot of Punjabi kids I knew turned up their nose at south Indian food [ I still think it’s yummy] and Southie languages were fair game for poking fun at. The latter might have been ok if it didn’t contain hints of derogatory tones. I mean the bhojpuri, bihari, gujju et al accents are common but the southie ones were definitely not in the same spirit.
It disappointed me. Also this might totally be a ‘gelf’ phenomenon, but all Southies were referred to as ‘mallus’ and it was not meant without insult by the above mentioned group.
Quite a shame overall.
a quick refresher – there was a move a while back in tamil nadu headed by Periyar which challenged brahmin domination of Tamil society, and the imposition of Hindi from the center. there was summary rejection of several practices traditionally associated with hindu society – and Periyar actively promoted beef eating as part of the rebellion – this movement actively promoted the use of tamil over hindi, which by the way precedes sanskrit a couple of centuries at least – some of this is detailed in Naipaul’s MillMuttNow btw, but you all knew that you smarty munchkins. ah, but words can and have drawn blood. By the way – those punjabi’s amongst us, may also consider tracing the history of the “punjabi sooba”
sincerely, வ்ர்ன (yea i know vowels are missing)
Good God. All of our food is smelly. If you want to insult a fellow Indian, you can surely come up with something better than that.
Incidentally, the only thing I ever heard about South Indians, growing up, was that they were smarter than North Indians.
As a fellow South Indian, it is sad to hear of all these North-South issues. Interestingly enough, I’ve never witnessed this among the Indian crowd! One thing I have noticed is that many Punjabis, Gujaratis, and other North Indians are under the impression that there is one big state in the south called “South India”, while they are very particular about the state they are from in the North. Cracks me up every time I point that out.
What do you mean when you say “all our food is smelly” ? Isn’t food supposed to smell (good) ? Doesn’t barbecued ribs, steak smell…same with mexican food, thai food. “Indian food is smelly” is a common comment that ‘non-desis’ make. We don’t have to use their yardstick to judge our own food. Taste and smell are essentials for food to be classified as “good”.
I love the many turns this thread has taken 🙂 To continue in the same vein but bring it back to the original question, I was wondering if any of you face parental or societal pressure insofar as dating/marrying within Indian society as a whole. For example, a friend of mine (Telegu) was dating a Punjabi guy; his parents refused to meet her, and they eventually broke up because his family disapproved of their relationship since she wasn’t Punjabi. Without going into too much detail, I know that in my parents’ ideal fantasy world, I would not only marry someone from the same caste but also subcaste and sub-sub-caste. (Again, they’re not putting pressure on me either way and have convinced themselves that I will be marrying a white guy). I know lots of people who have had North/South or inter-caste marriages and they faced strong opposition from both families, just as much as the opposition I’ve seen to bi-racial marriages.
To address an earlier question re: why do ABDs tend to talk about only dating white guys, if dating outside of the desi spectrum … I’ve dated white, black, E. Asian, S. Asian, and Latino guys. It’s just been the trend lately that they’ve all been whiteys. I have a big crush on a 1/2 African/Indian Grenadine man at the moment!
reality check- south indian food SMELLS. whoever says it doesn’t is probably so used to eating it they can’t smell it on themselves anymore. all desi food smells, but south indian food takes it to a whole new level. i had a s. indian roommate in college, stunk up the entire floor of the dorm when she nuked her leftovers. EVERYONE complained.
The North-South disconnect is quite common in Indian universities too. Its mostly “lack of knowledge” ..and there is usually no animosity or tension between people from different regions. From my personal experience, I feel that you’ll find very few gujjus in Indian engineering colleges. When we speak of North Indians, it usually mean Delhi, UP, Bihar, Punjab, Haryana, HP, MP, Rajasthan.
Some common generalizations are: – North Indians mostly reason using their hearts while South Indians use their brains 🙂 – South Indians are less likely to enter into a fight. – Northies are more likely to talk to strangers…southies are a bit more reserved. – When it comes to academics, southies are more hard-working and sincere. – When it comes to college politics, Northies rule the roost. – All Northies love DOSA (this is quite true). – Southies love Punjabi food (this is also true).
Add more 🙂
“pungent wafting aroma”- I take it from your post that you do not like the smell of South Indian food. You are right when you say that all desi food smells. What you don’t seem to realize is that it’s all relative- to many South Indians, the smell North Indian food is just as pungent, and to some repulsive, as well. I’ve seen it time and time again with friends/family in the South. This is because they aren’t as used to the smell, just as you aren’t as used to the smell of South Indian food. Food for thought.
pungent wafting aroma: oh, your post has made my mouth water. Thank you for reminding me of the delicious aromas of bajji, thayir vadai, puliyotharai, rassam, sambar, idlee, yumyumyum. But don’t share too much more; you’re making me miss the smelly abode of my parents!
Wow – this is such a loaded topic.
I think this fob/abcd, southie/northie crapola plays a role only when you are young. When you hit past the mid twenties or have seen enough to realize that nothing really matters, things are much clearer.
During my initial years of stay in US, I used to expect the abd kids to be friendly with me. I didnt know how to steer the topic, but now I do. I can judge the tone and also the level of interest and sail it along.
Just as an incident from past (which was when I started to act smarter, ahem) – there was this ABD girl on the hiking meet we went. Her name is Maya. One Canadian dude asked her what her name means and I was also doing some friendly chat up. She literally expected me to answer the question. I just played like its none of my business to answer a question posed to her, which was when she gave him the meaning and me her digits 🙂
If I were put in same situation within first 2 years of my living here, I would have told all about illusion, the meaning of maya, the spiritual connotations and what not. Life do leaves funny trails.
cheers -P