I’ve always been one of those girls that scoured mainstream beauty/fashion mags to see if there was a desi face within the pages. Of course, I was constantly disappointed. While thumbing through Jane Magazine’s April issue (print edition only) this weekend, I surprisingly found two. These two women were profiled in a list of “30 under 30,” basically, 30 cool women under the age of 30…
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Miss Congeniality |
Kashish Chopra, 22 – Washington D.C. Real Estate Agent; openly gay; Miss Congeniality at the 2003 Miss India pageant. “People would tell me how they were born gay but didn’t know how to come to terms with their personal or cultural identity. But they shouldn’t be afraid of it, because they are not alone.” (p104)Alpana Singh, 29 – Chicago. Youngest female master sommelier in the country (and one of only 16 in the world). “It’s like, you can see Scarlett Johansson having wine, whereas Tara Reed is doing shots of tequila. Do you want to be Scarlett or Tara?” (p121)
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She Likes Her Wine |
It got me to thinking…just two? I know there’s more. Most of the people I come across in doing South Asian American work are dynamic women, all moving to break down barriers…Who would I additionally add if it was a list of “Desi Women Under 30”?
- M.I.A, 28, rapper. – I had to do it. You knew it was coming. She was the first woman I saw perform on a live late-night TV talk show. Does this SM mascot even need a bio update on this site? [link].
- Parminder Nagra, 30 actress. – Of the Bend it Like Beckham fame, as well as on E.R. “She was nominated for a 2006 Asian Excellence Award, in the category of Outstanding Female Television Performance, for her work in ER.”[link]
- Sunny Leone – 23 ‘actress.’ “…is the first performer of Indian descent (her parents were born in the Indian state of Punjab) to become a Vivid Girl.” NSFW [link]
- Rasika Mathur – 26, comedian. A brown lady that is shaking her butt on MTV in a not typical MTV-type way – on Nick Cannon’s improv show Wild ‘N Out. [link]
- Mohini Bhardwaj – 27, gymnast.Won a Silver Medal for the U.S. gymnastics team in the 2004, and was India Abroad’s Person of the Year in 2005. [link]
- Aliya Deri – 13, Spelling Bee Competitor. She came in second at Scripps’ 2005 National Spelling Bee. “Aliya plays violin, viola, and piano and is a member of two orchestras. Her other pastimes include Indian dance and Tai Chi.” [link]
All these women to me represent ‘Desi Women Firsts’ in so many ways. There are so many more women under the age of 30 that have done amazing things in their respective fields that I know I am leaving out (unintentionally), and many more I had thought of that were just beyond the ‘under 30’ bracket. These are just a handful of the women I’ve come across that are cool, young, and desi.Who would you list?
OHHHHHH tongue in cheek! Whee!
Gaurav – yeah I have to say I agree.
gaurav, beautifully put. and additionally, it’s not a matter of east vs. west thinking, or anything else like that. it’s a case of logic, common sense and decency. it’s like those damned cammie girls who ruin the internet. anyone with sense in their heads wouldn’t allow their spouses/inomoratas to show off their bodies, or perform private acts for the indulgence of others. and even if you don’t have a spouse/inomorata, it’s no less lude. anyhoo….thanks for posting this.
brown face, and brown butt, and brown pu….
They’re actually pink and grey, Razib.
Ennis is right. This thread is beyond salvageable.
Grey ??
I have seen pink and black (may be brown ?)but grey?
Must watch more porn
Gaurav (#100):
How about that – we agree on something! I don’t think that sentiment has much to do with being or not being American, either.
Though I do think that information on safe sex and sexual practices should be available/accessible to anyone.
Oh dear. I shouldn’t have contributed to the derailment of this thread. But yeah, if you think about it, when you mix pink, brown and black, you get pretty shades of brownish grey.
Pattie Kaur,
Can I please request you not to use verbal abuse in reference to these women. A woman choosing to wear revealing clothes is not committing a malicious act and neither is it some kind of “sin”, so they certainly do not deserve to be referred to in such disparaging terms, regardless of whether or not you disagree with their choice of attire (or lack of it). Using such terminology is not only inappropriate (especially for someone who claims to be serious about shortly becoming Amritdhari), it sounds worryingly similar to the kind of rants some UK-based “hijabans” come out with in reference to their more liberal Muslim sisters and Western women in general.
This statement, however, is absolutely correct. Nevertheless, as Dudette said in one of her posts, it is ultimately the responsibility of the individual concerened as to whether they are making the “right” decision, both logically and ethically. Now, we know that engaging in the porn industry probably does have adverse psychological effects on many of its participants and (beyond a certain point, if taken to unhealthy extremes) on its viewers too, but these things have to be realised by the people involved. We reap what we sow, and we often have to learn our own lessons in life — sometimes the hard way.
But the ultimate responsibility for the consequences of one’s actions and their impact externally and (especially) internally lies with the person involved. You can certainly disagree with their behaviour, and to some extent you would certainly be justified, but unless someone is engaging in grossly malicious activities, they do not merit such bile on your part.
As a fellow Sikh, albeit a comparatively liberal one, I should mention that a more appropriate response by you — at least in line with the Khalsa path you claim to be travelling on — should be compassion for the porn actresses concerned due to the self-destructive impact their activities will undoubtedly have on many of them, not disgust and verbal abuse.
Madurai,
I never realized that we disagreed on everything. However I don’t think there is any problem with disagreement as long we are civil. I think I have been civil and so have been you. Social Taboos and Morals are constructs of time, location and Historical dynamics. Therefore What I find distasteful as Indian you as American may not and vice-versa
Jai,
I hope I do not offend, but I think it is little extraneous to bring Sikhism (or for that matter any other religion) into discussion on porn. Also while one is free to indulge in any activity (as long as permitted by law of land), I do not think Patti (or anyone else) is wrong to judge or criticize. I somehow feel disappointed with modern attitude of “Do not judge” and “Anything goes”, for a society to exist the individuals must judge and discriminate.
Regards
I agree with Jai. Women’s decisions must be respected. There are many reasons why a woman would wear what she does. Sometimes she is a victim. Sometimes she is proclaiming victory over gender oppression. But a naked woman and a woman under a burka can both be victims for different reasons. Similarly, a naked woman and a woman under a burka may be happier in their clothes (or lack thereof). But only those women themselves can tell you which one (btw I’m not saying it’s always and either/or situation). The point is, no matter what their real situation is and how they really feel, all those women are degraded when we speak for them in this way.
Shruti,
“Women’s decisions must be respected”
I do not agree with this. Tolerate yes, Respect depends
I have no compunction in discriminating
For me Mohini Bharadwaj and Kalpana Chawala are worth emulating, Sunny Leon is not.
Regards
Regards
Gaurav, I’m not opposed to expressing disagreement, but we can judge and criticize after we hear the women’s own opinions, and that too, without essentializing rights and wrongs for women. When I said I agreed with Jai, I was talking about his view on women, not Sikhism. Still, I don’t want to say Sikhism doesn’t have a place in a discussion like this because I’m not Sikh. Maybe we should let them decide. And as far as disagreements with Madurai, does the model minority discussion ring a bell? There might be more, but that’s what’s fresh in my mind.
Shruti,
“I’m not opposed to expressing disagreement, but we can judge and criticize after we hear the women’s own opinions”
You mean that we can discuss porn only after we have interviewed each and every porn nymphet, I think Porn is so often discussed that I doubt that there is any new information to be obtained.
“….and that too, without essentializing rights and wrongs for women…..”
Again noone is forcing anyone but there is nothing wrong about expressing on what is right and what is wrong for men, women or Felicity
“…And as far as disagreements with Madurai, does the model minority discussion ring a bell?…” I do remember but it was not everything.
Regards
I just mean we need a diversity of opinions from the actual subject of our discussion.
And yet we keep coming back to the same ignorant conclusions about women. It’s not the frequency of discussions about porn, it’s what you actually consider in the discussion. And anyway, do we not progress (or regress)? The porn industry and the gender roles that influence it are not static.
Shruti
“I just mean we need a diversity of opinions from the actual subject of our discussion”
But who really is suppressing this “diversity of opinion”. To simplify, A is free to say that Moon is made up of blue cheese. B is free to say A is a loon.
B is being judgemental (even using ad-hominem assertion), but he is not suppressing diversity of opinions
“And yet we keep coming back to the same ignorant conclusions“
See, even you are being judgemental!
There is no agreement because as I said Social mores change with place, time. So any debate concerning them is bound to run in circles.
As an aside all your statements about women, will you hold the same opinion about “The judges ready to unleash full measure of justice”
Regards
Pattie,
if you truly believe that our society is screwed up b/c of porn…then i guess i have nothing further to say
This post had so much potential… why’s it degenerated into a discussion on porn instead of desi women who are successful?
Taz’ premise on this post has been her definition of cool – not that of a career professional (none of the examples had a career. they all came under the broad entertainment category) – needless to say the ‘career’ is falling in disrepute – and the point is made clearer in this essay by allison wolf.
Some excerpts
What do you think? If a career is un-cool, is it cool to be a nurturer – if one doesnt choose entertainment? What is cool after all?
Farah Ahmed from Nirvana Woman Magazine. Why isn’t there more stuff out there about what she’s been doing? i mean, heading a real magazine for indian woman is a big deal and does tons to promote a positive image of indians! why are we wasting our time on Sunny?
you have the power to change it!
What’s so great about Nirvana Woman Magazine (besides being riddled with grammatical and spelling errors)?
Nothing says progressive outlook like an East-West, static-dynamic, spiritual-industrial, dichotomy…
Okay, I have an idea. How about we all name a woman from Sepia Mutiny (one of the Mutineers or one of the commenters) who is a good role model or generally worthy of admiration, and include our reasons for doing so.
That should hopefully steer this thread in a more constructive direction.
my mayn says i should not speak up in public. but he is away so i can say.. JaiJi and SiddharthBabu, you are so maynlee. i am getting the tingles. is that bad?
Shruti (#111):
Gaurav (#112):
After graduating from college I was sitting in on an alumni meeting of sorts during which we were trying to come up with phrases to describe the college. One that came up was something like, “A student at our college respects other people’s points of view.” An older alum said he didn’t like the term respect here and preferred tolerate/toleration.
The problem is that for many of us, toleration has taken on a very patronizing connotation. If one encounters a view which one doesn’t like/agree with, one can simply tolerate it without engaging with it. This becomes a problem when the scenario is played out between two people in different positions of power with relation to each other. Someone in a position of power simply tolerates another person’s view because it’s simpler that way – an, “Ok, you think what you want, let’s agree to disagree and move on, I’m not really going to worry about what you have to say,” sort of thing. When those who are at the losing end of these power dynamics seek to assert themselves, tolerance/toleration is no longer enough. They demand to be recognized and understood.
We never did agree upon a better word though – perhaps acceptance?
The list was compiled of people that have good publicity (and website links)- it is very hard to find people to interview in careers I’m not familiar with all in a Sunday afternoon- which is why i left the post open ended- because I was hoping to see who people would add from there respective fields! I’m all about career professional women that are under 30, but it’s so hard to find them. Well hard to find them with websites. As a side note, 80% of the board of SAAVY would fall under this category.
well… maybe i was misreading into your statement – in the star article i linked to, there was reference to the salary gaps across genders and how it was decreasing for certain segments of the population – my very broad hypothesis was that you wanted to emphasize non-careers because it is indicative of this generation’s expectations of work-life balance and of salary parity through non-traditional professions – most any of the people you pointed out – are their own bosses – their salary and their work hours are governed to a large extent by themselves … broad reach – and i am not sure whether you had this in mind … but like is said broad hypotheis.
Gaurav (#110):
Yes, of course. My comment in #107 was tongue-in-cheek. Sorry I didn’t make it clearer.
my apologies towards my choice in verbal stance….however, a female who chooses to wear reavealing clothing is doing it for a purpose – to actract negative attention and gain for their ego. THAT is wrong. i find it curious that you comment on my terminology yet you find those who decide to be enticing perfectly fine. neither of us is perfect, fine….but would it make you happy if i were to use perfect verbal tense, and then go around in straticially placed strings when i do my marketing? i think my sardar would not be very pleased with that. and it’s only certain parts of the human population who feels they wish to see females in innapropriate attire. hell, i don’t need to see a sardar half naked to appreciate them. the whole point doesn’t sail…. also, it doesn’t mater what faith you follow, be it us sikhs, or even someone who doesn’t follow any….it’s common sense and tact to keep yourself properly clothed. those with maturity do not feel the need to show off everything they have to gain respect, nor do they feel the need for such attention. for some reason…ennis might be the better one to comment. and he’s staying silent. we will not go into the sikhi vs. whatever thing. this is not about just us, it’s about people in general.
anyhooo
correction…constructive critism. but you’re right there – whilst it’s not right to judge or criticize without good reason, unfortunately we need to use some judgement to improve society, and try to gain mature common sense and values.
it goes for both sexes…and i dunno so much about tolerating, it depends of the decision made, if it is a poor decision, it must be brought to their attention, and corrected, so that they gain better thinking where they’ve made a poor choice.
lol…seriously…good one. and many of those pron nymphets may have had tough lives, gone thru this and that, blah, blah, blah…but the whole point is they’re choosing to make complete degrading persons of themselves, so the only good that would come is if they could turn their lives around and grow up. many people have gone thru hard times, look at oprah winfrey….you don’t see her doing porn, just because she was given the crap stick in life. and it does indeed go for both men and women, but women are advertised more often in innapropriate ways.
quite right. except i will add that it’s not JUST porn, but porn happens to be one of the big issues….we emphasize sex too much.
yeah…seriously….but i like siddhartha’s optomism. so, with that in mind…let’s set to it!
tough one….anna, janeofalltrades, sonia, nina, taz seems cool, cicatrix, chick pea, and there are many, many many more here. so many to list. but indeed a great idea for once.
also, i like how some folks have added in some more great examples. it’s good to see.
ooohh crow…i forgot to add my reasons….
one thing in common is that these girls give some really good insight into things with their posts/comments, and are impressive because of their intellect. each in their own way. they’re also, fun, perky (in a good way), and great to hear from.
Again, I’m not South Asian. I’m a pasty, pink, white-privilege-having, Ashkenazi-descended goree. In spite of my name.
Again, I’m not South Asian. I’m a pasty, pink, white-privilege-having, Ashkenazi-descended goree. In spite of my name.
lol..issok…you don’t have to be desi to deserve respect. heck, i’m a pasty creamish – pale pinky – and am part gori, so what….lol…you’re cool and give great posts. that’s what it’s about!
You know whos my hero, my mom, although she is is older than 30, regardless of what she claims
ovaltine, that is sso cool to say. for me, it’s my mum in law. besides, it’s not about chronolgical age so much is it?
Nina,
You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. 🙂
Hey, I know Kashish Chopra, kinda. She’s my buddy Shringar’s little sister! What great news.
Boy, great to see a post derailed right from the get-go. What, porn is still shocking? What sort of cutting edge discussion will we see next? Women who reveal their ankles in public? Non-wool bathing suits?
But since you went there…the country (and by association, Brown Americans) doesn’t suffer from an over-emphasis on sex. That’s a bit like saying post-invasion Iraq suffers from an abundance of bullets.
Pattie Kaur,
It’s a question of degree and context. Whether or not a woman chooses to wear revealing clothing is her choice; it’s obviously not “saintly” behaviour and is not going to be conducive to any spiritual benefit for her, but neither is it a malicious act and it certainly does not warrant the kind of venom you used in your previous post.
Since you have taken this into an issue of morality and, to me, my ultimate source of reference in ethical matters is Sikhism, I am basing — and will continue to base — my viewpoints on the teachings of the faith, even if I have a liberal intepretation of them as per my own personality and the propriety of applying them in a liberal environment. So should you, if you are as serious about your religious beliefs as you claim to be. Taking Amrit is a deadly serious business and involves a significantly higher level of idealism, integrity, and all-round saintly behaviour than is expected from an “average” person (something I am unlikely to achieve in this lifetime), so if you are going to represent yourself as a soon-to-be-Amritdhari, then I am afraid that people such as myself are going to call you on this if your behaviour and ideals wildly deviate from the noble ideals involved in being a Khalsa. I believe that you significantly “crossed the line” on multiple levels and in multiple areas in post #90.
Sikhism encourages and recommends — please note the terminology, there are no “commandments” in this matter or dire threats of temporal or divine retribution — women in general to dress relatively modestly if they are serious about increasing their spirituality and overall level of morality. However, woman who choose to dress more provocatively are not viciously condemned as the harlots you seem to think they are. Verbal abuse and insults are not used to “motivate” women to dress in a particular manner. Again, context and motivation are the key factors here — as they are in most aspects of the faith. A woman living in London or New York who chooses to dress in the prevailing fashion, which involves fairly tight & revealing clothing these days, is in an entirely different environment and culture to her counterparts in Riyadh. While her attire would be inappropriate if walking down a public street in Saudi Arabia — and indeed, her motivations for insisting on doing so could be justifiably questioned — the two scenarios are very different and, if she is based in a more liberal environment, her manner of dress does not necessarily reflect negatively on her personality.
Not everything is black & white in matters of “right & wrong” — some things certainly are, sure, but there is a huge grey area of neutrality in between.
Your terminology is offensive and, while revealing clothing may not be in line with the higher ideals of Sikhism (should a person decide to aspire to those ideals — which is left up to the individual’s freedom of action), what is worse is your reaction to it and your attitude towards women who choose to dress in that way. The latter is totally incompatible with the Khalsa ethos — and may I also remind you that “false modesty” in female attire is also explicitly condemned. It’s the reason why “veiling” (burqas, hijabs etc) are condemned within Sikhism, not just for Sikh women but for women of all backgrounds, and also why the onus is placed on men to control their sexual reactions to women (regardless of how provocatively the women may be dressed or behaving), rather than transferring the “blame” to the women concerned and stating they are responsible for the way men react to them, and that they should therefore dress modestly for this reason. That’s not what it’s all about.
If a woman decides to try to become a more saintly individual, and feels (or deduces) that her manner of dress affects this, she will dress more modestly automatically — it will be an intuitive, natural process for her. Launching into aggressive, over-the-top personal attacks against provocatively-dressed women is a totally counter-productive way to go about things — it should not be such a big deal to you and should not bother you so much, regardless of the fact that you may be right in some cases, and certainly not to the extent that it triggers the kind of outburst in post #90.
I would feel that it’s not the most intelligent or appropriate way to dress in that situation, but beyond that I would feel that it’s none of my business and it’s your own responsibility to deal with the consequences of your actions.
That’s good, but as a married woman you should not be “appreciating” any men apart from your husband at all, sardar or otherwise, and you certainly shouldn’t be making such statements on a public discussion forum which is visited by hundreds of thousands of complete strangers every month. The occasional light-hearted comment or banter is fine, but when it becomes a regular, repeated, frequent, almost daily event, again I think this is seriously crossing the line. If you were unmarried or not in a steady relationship then it would be a different matter. However, since you claim to be serious about taking Amrit, then it does raise questions about the moral propriety of such behaviour, certainly if you deem it appropriate for you to vociferously condemn women on the “morality” of their attire.
But, as mentioned before, such things are none of my business, and we all have to take personal responsibility for our actions, for better or for worse.
Hey hey now – even us married folk are allowed to look at the menu, just not order.
Sonia,
Perhaps, but not if one is seriously claiming to shortly be going down the Amritdhari route, and it probably isn’t a good idea for one to simultaneously berate other women on the alleged “immorality” of their manner of dress and their perceived motivations for dressing that way.
what about sania mirza? or Karnam Malleshwari?
thank you for my weekly dose of porn, tolerance of porn, and kitty porn discussion
Thanks a lot Jai, for making that stand. I really admire Pattie’s resolve and religious beliefs but the criticism was getting a little out of hand. One man’s meat is another man’s poison and you put it in a very good way.
It’s wonderful how humans are so multi faceted. One woman probably gets her kicks from anjoying her sexuality and being bold about it and another probably finds her salvation in modesty and religious faith. To each his own. The thing to remember is that if you don’t like it, turn your face away.
Jai and everyone else – I completely understand what you’re saying about how we should not judge those who choose to dress provocatively and what not. However, I can relate to what Pattie is trying to convey. I fear raising my future children in a society where 12 year olds are cruising the mall wearing tube tops and itty bitty skirts and it’s considered completely normal. I also don’t want my daughters to think it’s “cool” to be a porn star like Sunny Leone.
Jai ~ As Sikhs, we should all be on the path to becoming Amritdhari .. regardless of how far along (or not) we are. I don’t think it’s fair of you to keep bringing up Pattie’s personal path with Sikhi when it comes to her commenting on a public blog. If you see her smoking and drinking in a club .. give it to her. But spare her when she’s just having some fun expressing her opinions – like we all are.
Breaking the rules on age ever so slightly, a la Cicatrix, I nominate Shaheen Sheik. She’s a total rockstar — literally!
Msichana,
Thank you for your kind words — greatly appreciated. I’m glad you understood what I was trying to say.
Sonia,
Believe me, I completely agree with you here. However…..
I brought it up because I have a problem with people demonstrating double-standards, especially if it involves aggression targetted at undeserving third-parties (I have been restraining myself from using the word “hypocrisy” because I do not wish to turn this thread into one of the usual flame wars). I do not think women deserve to be addressed in the kind of language that Pattie has used, especially in this part of the world and in this day and age. I also think this kind of attitude regarding female attire is incompatible with the principles of Sikhism, and would not have mentioned it were it not for the fact that Pattie herself often emphasises her religious affiliation and has mentioned her Amritdhari aspirations.
It is not the basic principle of objecting to the increasing (and in many cases, inappropriate) sexualisation of some aspects of our society and the media which I have a problem with — and as mentioned earlier, I happen to agree with these concerns — but the tone in which this objection was voiced, the highly abusive language which has been used, and the “targets” towards whom the vitriol has been directed.
As far as I am concerned, such behaviour is far worse than (for example) “smoking & drinking in a club” because the former is unwarranted, excessive aggression towards individuals who do not deserve it. Strongly condemning deliberately malicious actions on the part of another person by using firm language is one thing — and even then, one should exercise self-restraint for the sake of one’s own mental/emotional self-discipline, to prevent the situation from being unnecessarily inflamed, to prevent one’s own actions from being driven by corrupt motivations (ego-driven self-righteousness, sadism etc), and in order to achieve a positive outcome to the situation — but the issue of grown women’s attire, especially in the West, does not warrant such an indignant response. I can understand an orthodox Muslim reacting in that way, or some of the more conservative members of the older desi generation, but not someone who has grown up in the West or someone who has really understood the basics of Sikhism in such matters (and how to react to them).
Sonia amen to that. But you have to have faith in yourself. My parents were about as conservative as any average Indian parent and I grew up in NYC so I’m sure it was doubly hard and for a long time I’m sure they believed they failed in imbibing their values in me. They haven’t. You have to have faith that like you your children will also turn out just fine.
I sincerely appreciate conservative values but I could care less to indulge in a discussion with anyone about what is right or wrong with it. It wasn’t till I turned 30 that I understood the value of the phrase “…because we are Indian”. And I no longer feel embarrassed about it. I have no problem saying that to someone anymore and once upon a time thought it was the most horrid thing ever.
Struggles with a changing society have been always been omnipresent all thru history. Have faith in your own self that you will raise your children right.
Nice one Jane.
Sonia, I don’t know about your folks but mine grew up when being a hippie was cool and free love was the mantra for everything. I am sure that their exposure to uninhibited sex and drugs etc is similar to the fear you have of what you see happening to kids nowadays. My granny is uneducated and probably didn’t know about half the shenanigans that my dad might have been a part of while growing up, but in the end, he turned out just fine. It all amounts to personal choice.
I will say this though, sometimes, exposure is good. A sheltered and puritan upbringing is not always the best thing to give to your children. They need to know why a certain activity or place etc is bad. I believe in empowering their judgement instead of saying, ‘it’s bad for you and you must listen’. Letting your children reason out between what is good and not is way more effective then fearing what is outside and keeping them from it.
As Jane said, have faith in yourself and do the best you can. 🙂
Exactly. I’m sure we’ve all seen what has happened to some desis from our various social circles who come from typically sheltered backgrounds, and then (usually at university, or at some point after they start working in the “real world”) they are subsequently exposed to various people and situations where the parental restraint is no longer present. People can really go off the rails and self-destruct, big-time.
Madurai Vivekan, I fail to see the error in the Nirvana exerpt you quoted. The dash “–” is read as “that are” as in “their lives that are grounded in…”
re: my #122
“confidant”
I can’t find the grammatical error I’d found earlier, but the syntax really wasn’t the point of my comment.
I was wondering why Nirvana Woman Magazine should be considered so great when it makes those East-West divisions (besides my personal problems with flaunting wealth; a cursory glance also reveals an unhealthy dose of Fair & Lovely).
JOaT and Msichana ~ Thanks for your comments and your assurance that I’ll survive the child-raising process =) What can I say, it freaks me out sometimes! But you are both right – society can only affect you as much as you let it. And, hopefully, we’ll have the strength to give our children the freedom to experience life, but still be able to protect them.
Jai ~ You’re right, and I understand where you’re coming from. But I don’t think you’ll be able to change a person when all you know about them is what they write in comments on a blog. I think Pattie just reacts more strongly than most of us who double check our comments before clicking on the Post button. All her comments on this thread were based on her reaction towards porn – and I don’t think that’s a problem. Some people are for it, some people are against it – and that’s not going to change. I think a lot of her comments were just made because she was heated about that issue. Let’s drop it?
Gaurav in #116: I have an answer for you that will only take us in circles, so I’ll hold out on it. But I was wondering what “The judges ready to unleash full measure of justice” is supposed to mean?
Madurai in #125: point taken, thanks 🙂