I’ve always been one of those girls that scoured mainstream beauty/fashion mags to see if there was a desi face within the pages. Of course, I was constantly disappointed. While thumbing through Jane Magazine’s April issue (print edition only) this weekend, I surprisingly found two. These two women were profiled in a list of “30 under 30,” basically, 30 cool women under the age of 30…
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Miss Congeniality |
Kashish Chopra, 22 – Washington D.C. Real Estate Agent; openly gay; Miss Congeniality at the 2003 Miss India pageant. “People would tell me how they were born gay but didn’t know how to come to terms with their personal or cultural identity. But they shouldn’t be afraid of it, because they are not alone.” (p104)Alpana Singh, 29 – Chicago. Youngest female master sommelier in the country (and one of only 16 in the world). “It’s like, you can see Scarlett Johansson having wine, whereas Tara Reed is doing shots of tequila. Do you want to be Scarlett or Tara?” (p121)
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She Likes Her Wine |
It got me to thinking…just two? I know there’s more. Most of the people I come across in doing South Asian American work are dynamic women, all moving to break down barriers…Who would I additionally add if it was a list of “Desi Women Under 30”?
- M.I.A, 28, rapper. – I had to do it. You knew it was coming. She was the first woman I saw perform on a live late-night TV talk show. Does this SM mascot even need a bio update on this site? [link].
- Parminder Nagra, 30 actress. – Of the Bend it Like Beckham fame, as well as on E.R. “She was nominated for a 2006 Asian Excellence Award, in the category of Outstanding Female Television Performance, for her work in ER.”[link]
- Sunny Leone – 23 ‘actress.’ “…is the first performer of Indian descent (her parents were born in the Indian state of Punjab) to become a Vivid Girl.” NSFW [link]
- Rasika Mathur – 26, comedian. A brown lady that is shaking her butt on MTV in a not typical MTV-type way – on Nick Cannon’s improv show Wild ‘N Out. [link]
- Mohini Bhardwaj – 27, gymnast.Won a Silver Medal for the U.S. gymnastics team in the 2004, and was India Abroad’s Person of the Year in 2005. [link]
- Aliya Deri – 13, Spelling Bee Competitor. She came in second at Scripps’ 2005 National Spelling Bee. “Aliya plays violin, viola, and piano and is a member of two orchestras. Her other pastimes include Indian dance and Tai Chi.” [link]
All these women to me represent ‘Desi Women Firsts’ in so many ways. There are so many more women under the age of 30 that have done amazing things in their respective fields that I know I am leaving out (unintentionally), and many more I had thought of that were just beyond the ‘under 30’ bracket. These are just a handful of the women I’ve come across that are cool, young, and desi.Who would you list?
What you wear tells other people A LOT about the type of person you are and HOW you want others to perceive you. So it is inevitable that you will be judged by or treated as per your clothes. I really cannot see any reason why a woman (or man) would wear sexually provocative clothes OTHER than to get sexual and/or preferential attention. While being abusive is always wrong, I don’t think there is anything wrong with forming preconceptions about a person by what they wear.
If a woman wore something that shows an unnecessary amount of cleavage, I cannot help but think of her as being promiscuous or attention seeking, just as I couldn’t help thinking that a man wearing a T-shirt with a nazi swastika symbol as being a racist.
Bengali (#152)
Let me add a caveat,
What is provocative and what is not changes with times. Even attitude to sex is a function of social configuration.
About swastika, it is not neccessarily a racist symbol, depending on context.
Regards
Oh yes, good point. Agreed!
Yup. That’s why I said nazi swastika and not just swastika 🙂
(An Indian Brahmin colleague of mine has a picture of the hindu swastika on his wall in the office; the first time I saw it, it took a couple of seconds to sink in that this was not an expression of any racist sentiment)
excellently put. actually, provativeness and not provacative does not change, it is how we choose to see it….which isn’t always a good thing. usually isn’t a good thing.
holy bats,people are awake late… unless ur on another time zone… or continent…
agree with above posters, yes, what one wears says somewhat of what one ‘may’ be, but in no way or form decisively. what one may be is a trend follower, i.e. low cut jeans, even with stomach hanging out, or those tiny jackets women are wearing these days, like the laundry ate the other half, for some, it is followign a trend, and mighty nice they look, for others, it is ‘look at my belly button’. u can ttell, unles su have mutant psychic powers.
this may go also with the way one acts. i knew of some very prudishly dressed and extremely well mannered gals in school who probably should not have been approached without a hazmat suit, they gots around, a few times…
50+ postings ago, someone, maybe me, said its upto the individual how or what they do and how or what they present themselves as. 35 posts later perhaps someone said societal norms change, as do individual attitudes. moreover, personal preferences. despite standing up to a persons right to do what they want with their own lives as long as it doesnt affect others, i for one, though she be hot, wouldnt invite sunny leone to have tea with dad…
a person chooses wether or not to follow a trend, or be their own person. the clothes mosnter doesn’t come up to you, and shove the day’s outfit on you. you make your own choice of how you wish to be percieved.
That might annoy your dad 😉
holy bats,people are awake late… unless ur on another time zone… or continent…
Manish Vij on April 6, 2006 04:32 AM · Direct link
Hehe. It will be funny if the timing of Manish’s posts dont’ actually change just b/c he’s half a world away from his normal time zone. 😀
Exactly. These days it’s just a matter of fashion, not necessarily a reflection on the alleged lack of “morals” of the wearer.
Beyond a certain point, it’s a mistake to make assumptions about people based on limited information, especially if their attire is mostly a matter of prevailing fashion trends rather than some kind of statement of “excessive availability” on their part. Frankly, I’m surprised to be hearing some of the views which have been posted on this thread, considering this is 2006 and most of us live in the West.
Here’s a question for those of you who disagree. It’s very common these days for Western women (yes, including huge numbers of younger South Asian women, at least here in the UK) to wear a bikini when visiting the beach in a tropical destination. Do you think that all the women involved are automatically “promiscuous sluts” who deserve to be condemned ?
Not to step on toes here but by forming these preconceptions and prejudging people because of their attire, wouldn’t we be as ignorant as the people who think that every brown person who is wearing a turban is a terrorist? If every person made these preconceptions, everyone who covers up, has facial hair, wears a head scarf, wears pyjama bottoms with a dress etc etc would be on a hate list.
Who is to judge what is necessary and what isn’t? I have seen very modestly clad women being eye balled because certain parts of their anatomy are obvious. Heck, I have seen men leering at women breast feeding their kids!
I don’t propose covering up or baring all or whatever it is that rocks anyone’s boat. My take is based on the mighty ‘live and let live’. If someone wants to sh!t in the backyward, they can do so, as long as it’s not in mine. I have the capacity to turn my face and enrich my life in a different way if something is offensive. What might be my version of proper attire, behaviour etc might not hold true for someone else. In that case, maturity is in not judging someone else. Do your thing and move on.
Do not judge someone by their clothing. Yes, we do choose what we wear, while we cannot choose our skin colour – but it is still a very ignorant judgement to deem someone “promiscuous” or a “terrorist” or whatever because of their attire. In some cases, the anatomy itself, if obvious or ample, will automatically make any clothing seem more seductive – it ain’t the wearer’s fault. At a place I used to work, two girls had the same shirt: one woman had more cleavage than the other (though the shirt was her size)- she was instructed to go home and change, while the manager did not take notice of the other girl at all!
Sure, we could all wear potato sacks, but that’s not exactly flattering either. Besides the point, I’m pretty sure some men would leer even if all women wore garbage bags!
As far as the “attention-seeking” accusation – when was that a crime? I can think of alot more heinous crimes to focus my “attention” on…….
Thanks for speaking up- I was getting worried about how the line of conversation had turned.
Case in point. The first time I was violated in public, (I had my ass grabbed and I turned around and I didn’t know who did it) I was in head to toe burka (as close to potato sack as possible), holding my little sister’s hand. I was living in Saudi Arabia, this happened in Riyadh, I was in a pet store looking at fish. I was TWELVE.
Anyone who beleives this line of thought needs to go live in Saudi Arabia and understand it’s never about what you are actually wearing, but if you are a female, you will get judged. Despite potato sack clothes. But they would say that I was being promiscuous because I had a few strands of hair peaking out. and we know how silly that is.
“I will say this though, sometimes, exposure is good. A sheltered and puritan upbringing is not always the best thing to give to your children. They need to know why a certain activity or place etc is bad. I believe in empowering their judgement instead of saying, ‘it’s bad for you and you must listen’. Letting your children reason out between what is good and not is way more effective then fearing what is outside and keeping them from it.”
Well put Mschiana. I just wanted to add that it’s impossible to protect your children 100% of the time. Sure, you could be restrictive and never let them out of the house, but sooner or later, this can and usually does backfire. To give them growth and coping skills, you have to be able to give them some freedom – but not without a thorough discussion (on a regular basis) about consequences, and some role-playing/scenario; i.e. what would you do if a boy offers you a drink? etc etc. If you have an open-honest discussion with your kids, they’ll be better prepared for life, and not to mention, you’ll have a better relationship with them. It’s also really important to trust your kids, “have faith” as someone else put it. Constantly moralizing, accusing, and fearing only makes your kids more insecure with themselves. And insecurity can lead to bad decisions.
I know that south asian parents only want the best for their children, and there are demons out there; whether it be assault, sexual assault, rape….. but over-protectiveness, fear-mongering, lack of communication and shame, can only do your children good for so long. Sooner or later, they will be put in a situation where they may have to make a decision that could impact their safety. They need social and life skills that are learned in childhood and adoloscence to deal with such scenarios. You’ve got to have faith in your ability to mentor and faith in your children to do the right thing.
I really hope that the parents out there take this advice to heart. I am not a parent, but these are pretty much quotes from my own parents who have mentioned they wish they could go back and do things a little differently. It’s a common saying that “kids don’t come with a handbook”, but there are now several great parenting books and educational programs to help you deal. The one thing I think is missing is a book for south asian parents… that would be a great resource. I’ve had enough of the “hush-hush” factor in the desi community – people don’t talk about their problems and issues. That’s got to change, but a book would be a great start.
Thank You Taz!!!
I didn’t want to get sucked back into this thread, and could not believe the direction this thread was taking considering the comments that were being made.
A woman who shows too much cleavage is labeled as promiscuous….we’re getting into very dangerous territory here…especially if you have to precede your opinion with phrases like “while being abusive is always wrong”
To further my point in #164, which is so off topic, but I’ve gotta finish…..
Furthermore, a good open and honest relationship with your kids ensures that if they ever do find themselves in an unsafe situation, they will call you first! Wouldn’t you want your kids to call you first? I hope the answer is yes…. If they feel ashamed or guilty, they may not call their parents for help, and this could put them in a compromising situation.
Lastly, shit happens, and we have to move on and live life. Why not give your kids the opportunity to cope with gawdawful stuff that happens to them by being supportive, open, rather than accusatory, or shameful? Depression can result if a person feels isolated, and this can be very, very debalitating…. can last many years into adulthood. I’ve seen it happen to too many people I love dearly.
I apologize for the rant, but I really feel it’s important for South Asian parents to communicate more about such issues with their kids and with each other. I hope this is not perceived as a lecture – I am really genuinely concerned about the safety and security of our kids….. This post has brought out my yet to be tested maternal instincts… to tie all this in to the original posting, I’m going to list myself under great women under 30 😉 just kidding!
well, metric ang, u points are VALID, and well taken. if we, atleast me, could go back in time and force said patar/matar to read said good pts, ah, well, we’ed, i’d be a diff person, sort of, today. dad beleieved in exactly the sort of thning mentioned, teaching us responsibility, part of which is for us to f*&# up, and then learn from our mistakes… but mater, believed in the IRON fist, i think our time in thatchers england had too much impact on her, and the kids should be told (read forced) to do whats good for them.
i pretty much ignored the mater..heh heh..
metric ang, as a parent, who happens to be sA, if frightens me to a silly stupour any time i think how my kid will fare int he world, very diff from the one i grew up in, where the parents were a little extra overprotective, despites dads solid thinking… due to what he did and where we were. and the kid is less than a year.
i am constantly amazed at SM’s posts, that evolve over the rantings wishes arguments and disagreements of commnetors where sometimes i forget what we started with in the first place.. like a visit to local joe spot with buds… =)
So how should someone be ‘perceived’?
(I’m not going to use the word ‘judge’ anymore because I don’t judge people. If someone IS promiscuous, I don’t think they are a bad person. My best friend – or as I called her, my best fiend – at university had more boyfriends and one night stands then Samantha in Sex and the City and she (my friend) is one the most kind hearted and generous souls on the planet)
Everyone agrees that a person should be perceived by their actions. What you wear is an action which tells others a lot about your personality. First impressions are based on the exterior – clothes, hair style, body language, it is Psych 101, guys. I really have no idea why people are getting upset by this assertion.
First impression is precisely why you dress nicely and neatly when you go to a job interview.
Anyhow, there’s nothing wrong with being promiscuous, as a result there should be nothing wrong with thinking that someone is promiscuous. In a society, if it is okay and even COOL for men to be promisuous it should be same for women. It’s a lifestyle choice. And frankly, I find it worrying that so many people on this board still think that being a promiscuous woman is inherently a bad thing.
There is a difference between ‘perceiving’ and ‘judging’ – I was wrong to use the word ‘judge’ in my first post.
When I see a woman in a burkha/hijab – I think “she’s a practising muslim”. I DON’T think “she’s a narrow minded religious zealot who is bashed at home and married her cousin, who is a terrist”.
When I see a girl in a private school uniform – I think “she goes to so and so private school she may be from a wealthy family” – I DON’T think “she’s a snotty and snobby little rich bitch”
When I see a middle aged guy in a red convertible checking out everything in a skirt – I think “mid-life crisis” – I DON’T think “sick minded pervert”.
Bikinis are different – they’re at the beach and going for a swim. It’s the socially appropriate attire to wear in that particular scenario.
Mschiana (161#)
“Not to step on toes here but by forming these preconceptions and prejudging people because of their attire, wouldn’t we be as ignorant as the people who think that every brown person who is wearing a turban is a terrorist? “
No! For the reason that Turban (or Dastar or Safa or Hijab) is a mark of religious/cultural identity.
Attire indicates personal choice. It is not unfair to judge (or perceive or discern or recken or whatever) on the basis of personal choice.
Here I must say that I don’t care about what one wears (or does not wear). I usually shrug off/roll my eyes/raise my eyebrow depending on the situation. What I am speaking against is “You can’t judge people”.
Freedom doesnot meant immunity from criticism
Regards
“there’s nothing wrong with black people, some of my best friends are black” 🙂
Not everyone who goes to the beach wearing such attire is planning to “go for a swim.” Many women just want to soak up the sun (or get a tan, depending on their ethnic background).
However, they are still wearing clothes which render them almost naked in front of large numbers of complete strangers. Should they be condemned (especially if they are from a South Asian background), and assumptions made about their supposed promiscuity and desire for attention ?
(Before anyone lynches me, please bear in mind that I am playing Devil’s Advocate here, as indicated by my previous posts on this thread which should give a more accurate picture of my “real” viewpoint in such matters).
this is an interesting discussion…Pattie, I wonder how you would feel walking around some parts of Kenya where women are completely bare chested? Breasts are not considered sexual (for some tribes), and so these otherwise deeply conservative societies who are not liberal when it comes to women’s rights, don’t consider it inappropriate to have boobs hanging out…
It all comes down to what society/culture/individuals consider sexual. it used to be ankles, in some culture showing hair or even your eyes is considered too much…everyone draws the line they are comfortable with. I am highly uncomfortable in a bikini and shorts (the short kind) and mini skirts. I probably would not let my daughter wear them.
also pet peeve because I’m a HUGE proponent of it: why are American, in your face with victoria secret ads and such, so prudish about breasfeeding? I was talking to a couple on the plane who were apologizing profusely because their kid needed a feed and the woman didn’t have any pre-pumped milk. I told them I was cool with it, besides the woman was soooooo well covered and discreet about it, but apparently they had had major problems before in public areas (like malls, even when the woman choose a quiet spot). I mean I don’t get it, if most people would not take their meals and go to the public loo to eat them, why do you expect women and their especially vulnerable to infection infants to go to the restrooms to breastfeed?
i can’t believe we’re STILL on this topic…ok..i feel no different about it as i do anywhere else, but they are in a diferent situation than that of britney spears or such, so i have to give them a bit of slack, as long as i don’t have to look at them. and i prefer not to have to see them, or have breats and other privvie bits practically shoved in my face where i go. but you do have a point –
It all comes down to what society/culture/individuals consider sexual.
first off, i find VS ads sickening. and second of all, maybe i could go give my dollface a nice one right in the mall, as long as we’re descreetly covered. but it does perplex me too. also, i don’t mind women, as long as they are covered. and it seems scanilty clad women show up more often than men, not that men should be scantily clad either…i prfer seeing a nice, vute man fully covered, than showing off muscles.
nuff said, see the society thing.
i think sunny leone and parminder nagra make hindu,muslim,sikh all indian religion look bad.because in all three religions exposing body is not allowed.i really got offended when they say there indian.i even dont like malika sherawat.i dont know why people in india let her come in movies. bye tc jai shree sai baba jai shree krishna
biju – please tell me ur kidding. someone please tell me that was a comment made just to spark debate. that’s just hysterical!!!
Kashish is awesome; she should be very proud of herself. I would love to meet her. I’m married, but as I’m mostly lesbian, I have to also admit that I think she’s really sexy too!
well…i don’t know sunny leone personally so i don’t have the certain rights to comment on her…but its all abour karma and dharma. we should not worry ourselves because she has chosen her path and intertwined her decision with destiny. however, I am saddened to see the culture and tradition of our homeland, India, stomped on by way of assimilation and confusion.I only feel remorse for how saddened and hurt the hearts of the Indian borne MR. and Mrs.Leone are…(i speculate that they are hurt because they urge Sunny to discontinue her work…forgive me if i am mistaken)
Jai Shri Ram
i love fat woman !!!!