Gurbaj Singh Multani, a Sikh student in Québec, was playing during recess when, oops, his kirpan, a ceremonial Sikh dagger, fell out of his clothing. The mother of another student noticed, and minutes later the principal of the school, Danielle Descoteaux, informed Gurbaj that he would not be permitted to attend the school so long as he continued to carry this “weapon” on his person.
The school board agreed with Descoteaux’s initial reaction, stating that the kirpan violated its code of conduct, which prohibits the carrying of weapons. The boardÂ’s council of commissioners upheld that decision, but told Gurbaj and his parents that Gurbaj would be permitted to wear a kirpan-shaped pendant or a kirpan that was made of some other material (e.g., plastic or wood), not metal. Gurbaj’s father sued, claiming his son’s rights under the Canadian Charter were violated.
The Supreme Court of Canada unanimously sided with GurbajÂ’s father, holding that, “The council of commissionersÂ’ decision prohibiting [Gurbaj] from wearing his kirpan to school infringes his freedom of religion,” as guaranteed by Section 1 of that Charter.
The Court described the importance of this specific right as applied to Gurbaj:
Religious tolerance is a very important value of Canadian society. If some students consider it unfair that [Gurbaj] may wear his kirpan to school while they are not allowed to have knives in their possession, it is incumbent on the schools to discharge their obligation to instil in their students this value that is at the very foundation of our democracy. A total prohibition against wearing a kirpan to school undermines the value of this religious symbol and sends students the message that some religious practices do not merit the same protection as others. Accommodating [Gurbaj] and allowing him to wear his kirpan under certain conditions demonstrates the importance that our society attaches to protecting freedom of religion and to showing respect for its minorities. The deleterious effects of a total prohibition… outweigh its salutary effects.
Balancing an individualÂ’s general right of conscience (manifested by religious expression or moral objection, for example) against competing considerations of the general public, such as health or safety, is a difficult and problematic exercise, one which will not result in a satisfactory outcome for all interested stakeholders.
Complicating matters is the fact that, as Dahlia Lithwick noted recently in Slate, “The right of conscience, ultimately, is a subjective one.” And, as the Supreme Court of the United States stated in addressing an individual’s refusal to receive a mandatory vaccination for smallpox:
Real liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own, whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others.
Similarly, some argued that GurbajÂ’s kirpan presents a safety threat to others in the school and that his religious beliefs, however sincerely held, do not outweigh this threat:
[GurbajÂ’s] presence at the school prompted about 30 parents to yank their children from school in protest, insisting that a kirpan was a dangerous weapon.[link]
On the other hand:
The Kirpan is an ingrained part of the Sikh religion…. The Kirpan has been an integral part of the Sikh religion since it’s early inception and has a very sacred religious symbolism for Sikhs. To suggest that it is a ‘dagger’, or a ‘weapon’ or merely a cultural symbol is both misleading and offensive to Sikhs.[link]
Gurbaj and his family should be thanked for taking this case all the way up to the Supreme Court, and for convincing that Court to hand down a decision that protects the rights of all Canadian Sikh students. Respek.
A point of personal privilege: I would like to thank the ballers at SM, particularly Sajit, for inviting me to contribute to this important substantive forum. I noticed that some of the commenters called for a female or lesbian/gay guest-blogger. I am neither, but I hope that I will able to present a unique perspective to certain issues and enrich the existing intellectual dynamic on this exceptional site. Let’s do this!
first off, welcome dave!
wonderful post…..it reminds me a bit of the ‘talk’ i had with my mother not too long ago. i had to explain amrit, and the 5’s k’s to her. she said to me ‘ you cannot carry a knife in public like that, you’ll be arrested.’ this ranked along with calling my kara a ****ing bracelet. and indeed, i was very offended, as this had been a perosn who had brought me up to learn tolerance of others. it’s not like we go hacking people to death or something like the kkk on a regular basis. and just the same, gurbaj ji i’m sure had no intentions to harm anyone. and why should we have to do the ol out of sight out of mind thing either? jees, myself and tohers have raised complaints over far more pressing issues, and we were laughed at. it’s outright ignorance and lack of willingness to learn and accet other’s faith. The boardÂ’s council of commissioners upheld that decision, but told Gurbaj and his parents that Gurbaj would be permitted to wear a kirpan-shaped pendant or a kirpan that was made of some other material (e.g., plastic or wood), not metal.
and at least as far as i was taught, that is a wee slap in the face too. i bet he’s prolly one of the best behaved kids there to boot! 😉
besides, they would have died if had he been a nihang.
Pattie, you have too much faith in the alleged goodness of mankind. Religious reasons or not, the law should apply to all people equally, especially in schools. Some students shouldn’t be allowed to carry knives, while other students aren’t. Even if it is a religious symbol, I fail to see how much less symbolic wood/clay are in comparison to metal.
I mean, if such a law were to apply equally to all students of all faiths, then I could carry around a sword, quoting the passages in the Gospels where Jesus tells His disciples to carry swords.
As my dad is so fond of saying: “There is a time and a place for everything.”
The concerns of canadian parents are justified in every way. Despite its religious symbolism, A kirpan is still a dagger and without defaming Gurbaj’s character in any way, consider the possibility of the dagger being used in anger or stolen by another hot headed student. It is still a potential weapon in a young childs hands, i think Gurbaj’s parents should take up the offer of the plastic of wood substitute.
..yea..my religion wants me to carry a bazooka..talk about religious tolerance running on skewed mental apathy!!!
Pattie, you have too much faith in the alleged goodness of mankind. Religious reasons or not, the law should apply to all people equally, especially in schools. Some students shouldn’t be allowed to carry knives, while other students aren’t. Even if it is a religious symbol, I fail to see how much less symbolic wood/clay are in comparison to metal.
I mean, if such a law were to apply equally to all students of all faiths, then I could carry around a sword, quoting the passages in the Gospels where Jesus tells His disciples to carry swords.
um…….mmhhhmm…wow, that’s a new one – i’m usually just the opposite. anyhoo, my only fault comes in not clarifying myself. i could see if he was threatening others with his kirpan, or something, then some sort of action should be taken, withi reason. however – the kirpan is not to be used as a dagger, a knife, or other such thing. i fail to see the oking of other things that go on ins chool, when this boy hasn’t been doing any harm. thinsg such as very young students who have come to school in very innapropriate attire, verbilizing adult themed things they have picked up, and such. the kid has done nothing wrong. i will not even start on the whole christian vs. sikhi thing. i will just state that sikhs have a uniform of five items (Kakkars), including the kirpan, which is part of their bodies, and has just the same significance as their turbans. they are – kesh, kirpan, khanga, kecchera, and kara. christians have a different belief system, and do not have these. we allow others to worship god as they please, and we will do as we do. as long as no one harms anyone else, or do their worhsipping as a mockery, then let it go. i was once christian, now am sikhi, and i havn’t time energy, nor do i really care to pick such bones for good reason.
anyhoo….i will reiterate that i could see the other parents being upset if the boy had tried to use his kirpan in some form to hurt others, threaten, or something. however, they are usually to be kept in a gatka strap. the issue is more how to keep the kirpan from getting into the hands of others…that and people’s attitude towards such. and as long as he does no harm intentionlly, let it be.
and i fear also, it’s not kirpans we must be afraid of, isntead ‘Nieuctwo i Niedojrzały’ as my grandad would say.
and it’s so nice to see that tom has changed his name to nick. << sighs sarcastically.>>
I don’t intend to hurt anyone and I am probably stupid not knowing the answer to this question.
But what stops me from making a new religion where I have to carry a gun all the time ? (I don’t want comparisons to other religions) – I just want to know if there is a system wherein someone decides what is a religion, what is a culture, etc ?
if we want to talk about things being used as weapons. we don’t chop off people’s arms and legs just because they can be used as weapons. damn near anything is used as weapons these days, but society only chooses to single out certain things. hwoever, it really doesn’t get us anywhere.
I don’t intend to hurt anyone and I am probably stupid not knowing the answer to this question.
But what stops me from making a new religion where I have to carry a gun all the time ? (I don’t want comparisons to other religions) – I just want to know if there is a system wherein someone decides what is a religion, what is a culture, etc ?
yes, society – apparently society, ised.
somehow the younger the religion the more it adheres to its beliefs. makes them stick to their rituals a mite more fanatically. i’m not a big fan/supporter of religion and i would rather ask questions.
coming to this issue. ok..this 5K thingy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Five_Ks umm..wikiworld. come on God..ritual underwear..what next!! ah..its holy/sacred and cannot be questioned as its the word of god/guru..whatever.
sardars are not supposed to smoke and will try to muder you if u offer them one. ask them why and they will say its mighty bad/addictive. but why are they such lovers of equally bad/addictive johnny walker scotch whiskeys. dude..i’m not even sure that cigarettes existed in the centuries when the Gurus set the deliverables. nah..cant expect them to think rationally without getting mad at me. i take sardars on a case by case basis. on one hand we have people like Manmohan Singh who is a fine man and on the other we have the junta from Hoshiarpur.
damn it why cant it just be a plastic kitchen knife? is this racist, abusive, illiterate, content-free or commercial comment. no, but neither is it funny. I dont expect u to understand ur religion for what it is, but am just imploring u to think what others feel. it would make me worried to know that a friend of my kids has a wee little “self-respect” inducing knife in the playground.
I think this is taking liberalism too far. I can agree with veils,turbans etc..but a knife and such things shouldnt be allowed. I mean,can a kid really understand that this is a ceremonial knife and cannot be used to strike somebody?
When i was in india a sikh kid did draw a kripan over some silly issue. I heard that it was over his bicycles tire being deflated. It would be proper for sikhs to make adjustment, b/c what made sense back then is not, besides its not a weapon of choice when fighting evil. In india most sikhs i know did not keep kripans. There was only 1 sikh amongst those who i knew who carried a kripan. when i was in punjab i did see a lot of sikhs with kripan, but even there it was not a majority. For the most part its something a lot of sikhs have personaly chosen not to do.
sardars are not supposed to smoke and will try to muder you if u offer them one. ask them why and they will say its mighty bad/addictive. but why are they such lovers of equally bad/addictive johnny walker scotch whiskeys.
damn it why cant it just be a plastic kitchen knife? is this racist, abusive, illiterate, content-free or commercial comment. no, but neither is it funny. I dont expect u to understand ur religion for what it is, but am just imploring u to think what others feel. it would make me worried to know that a friend of my kids has a wee little “self-respect” inducing knife in the playground.
oohh dear….here we go again…
ok, i’m going to persue this from yet another angle till the rest of the betallion enters ( and hopefully soon)….maybe you don’t pay attetnion to rabbi shergill. those sikhs who ARE johny walker fans, i do happen to know one, are not following the khalsa. propely, as intoxicants, in general are prohibited.
damn it, why can’t it be a kitchen knife? the hijab (islamic women’s head covering) is not replaced by a stocking, a pillowcase, etc. because GURU GOBIND did not imply that we go go around with knives to murder everyone with. the Kirpan – (Kirpa (act of kindness, Sanskrit) + Aan (self respect, Persian) sword (the length cannot be limited). Kirpan – the sword, with which the Khalsa is committed to righteously defend the fine line of the Truth.
for reference read here, here, and here.
and it’s soooooo degrading and ignorant by calling the kirpan simply a knife. it’s good to knwo that we have more respect for your religion ( or perhaps lack of) than you do ours. i’d be more afraid to see some smart mouthed little jackass who asks dumb questions trying to make a mockery of others on the playground than a fine young sardar who’s following his faith.
When i was in india a sikh kid did draw a kripan over some silly issue. I heard that it was over his bicycles tire being deflated. It would be proper for sikhs to make adjustment, b/c what made sense back then is not, besides its not a weapon of choice when fighting evil.
the kirpan is not meant for such a use, and the child shuld have been corrected over it. many sikhs have ‘made adjustments’. however, sikhs who adhere to khalsa strictly, the kirpan is like a limb. as i said, it is not meant to induce violence, though the bearer may choose to do so, and that is wrong. however, to remove the kirpan would be an unspeakable act, most especially to an amritdhari sikh. many sikhs are also shaving and ditching their dastars, but that doesn’t make it any more right. think of how you’d feel if your south park, porn, and rap was taken away from you. (except the kirpan isn’t disgusting or degrading.) point is, for us, it’s a part of our face that has extreme significance, and to tell us to ‘get rid of it’, is like telling someone to go paint their skin another colour because it scares a group of people. as long as it is not being used to hurt anyone, there is nothing wrong with it.
Interesting case. I have too lazy to read the opinion but here are my do paisey and a slightly different take on the case:
The school board certainly has a right to pass a law with a secular purpose and which is neutrally applied even if it infringes with the religious practice of a person. To satisfy the purpose and the neutral application the school board here could claim that the purpose of the law was ‘safety’ and it had neutral application as all ‘weapons’ were banned. However in this case, the school board banned the Kirpan outright and allowed for no exceptions to the ban. This leads me to believe that the law was aimed at a specific religious practice. As the law ostensibly had a secular purpose and application, it should have had the same exceptions which are accorded to weapons like knives used in the cafetaria or when a school allows kids to handle guns in a gun safety course. Here, there were no exceptions here which would have taken care of the safety issue. For example, to take care of safety issues, guns cannot be taken out of a classroom in a gun safety class or dangerous chemicals cannot be taken out of a laboratory. If the school board was only looking out for ‘safety’, the school board should have carved out exceptions for a fake dagger, a plastic dagger, blunt dagger, symbolic dagger, hidden dagger, empty sheath etc. The absolutism of the School Board ban makes it clear that the law was specifically aimed at a religious practice. If a law specifically targets a religious practice, the government should come up with a very good reason as to why the law is necessary and should try to accomodate the religious practice as much as they can and use the law only as a last resort when no reasonable alternatives are available. In the US, if a law is specifically aimed at a religious practice, the Government has to show a compelling interest and a narrowly tailored law towards achieving the purpose (oversimplification alert!) I dont think the School Board here can show that the law was narrowly tailored towards achieving the ostensible purpose of maintaining ‘safety’ in schools.
I wonder how are our new US Supreme Court sans Rehinquist and O’Connors would have ruled on such a case.
The small kirpans that Sikhs carry are ceremonial in nature and are very blunt. They can’t cut anything. A pen could do more damage than those kirpans.
The Kirpan (ceremonial sword) worn by followers of the Sikh religion sometimes raises questions or concerns among people who are unfamiliar with the religion or it’s tenants. The Kirpan is an ingrained part of the Sikh religion and is in many ways itÂ’s religious symbolism is similar to the Cross in Christianity. Just as a Cross is worn by devout Christians, baptized Sikhs are required to wear the Kirpan. The Kirpan is no more symbolic a weapon than the Christian Cross is symbolic of a torture instrument.
If the Kirpan is truly ceremonial in nature (i.e. small, blunt and incapable of intimidation and causing any physical injury), one should definitely be allowed to carry it as a religious symbol, but secularism should not be interpreted to mean that people should be allowed to carry real weapons on their person into places where they are prohibited. A parent would certainly have reason to be concerned about it since schools are not generally known to be the safest places – if the Kirpan can cause harm, then how do you really trust the judgement of a kid, especially when your own kid is in potential danger?
Then again, if the Kirpan is intended to be a symbol, and not a true instrument of harm, then there can certainly be no issue with using a wooden/plastic/clay one instead! So why sue the school council when they left the door open for the kid to wear a truly symbolic Kirpan?
the kirpan is not meant for such a use, and the child shuld have been corrected over it. many sikhs have ‘made adjustments’. however, sikhs who adhere to khalsa strictly, the kirpan is like a limb. as i said, it is not meant to induce violence, though the bearer may choose to do so, and that is wrong.
Even though I agree with the decision of the Canadian Supreme Court, the line of reasoning used above about the purpose behind the kirpan has very little relevance. Even if the kirpan is meant to be used as a deterrant or because it is mandated by God, we all know that the Kirpan can be used as a weapon. The purpose behind the Kirpan has some trivial relevance, but the test here should be whether the Kirpan can be used as a weapon.
However in this case, the school board banned the Kirpan outright and allowed for no exceptions to the ban. This leads me to believe that the law was aimed at a specific religious practice. As the law ostensibly had a secular purpose and application, it should have had the same exceptions which are accorded to weapons like knives used in the cafetaria or when a school allows kids to handle guns in a gun safety course. Here, there were no exceptions here which would have taken care of the safety issue. For example, to take care of safety issues, guns cannot be taken out of a classroom in a gun safety class or dangerous chemicals cannot be taken out of a laboratory. If the school board was only looking out for ‘safety’, the school board should have carved out exceptions for a fake dagger, a plastic dagger, blunt dagger, symbolic dagger, hidden dagger, empty sheath etc. The absolutism of the School Board ban makes it clear that the law was specifically aimed at a religious practice. If a law specifically targets a religious practice, the government should come up with a very good reason as to why the law is necessary and should try to accomodate the religious practice as much as they can and use the law only as a last resort when no reasonable alternatives are available.
woohhoooo! THANK YOUUUUUUU! yes…..far more important than the whole what do we consider a kirpan is just what you put so well.
“Then again, if the Kirpan is intended to be a symbol, and not a true instrument of harm, then there can certainly be no issue with using a wooden/plastic/clay one instead! So why sue the school council when they left the door open for the kid to wear a truly symbolic Kirpan?”
It can’t be of wooden/plastic/clay. The kirpan like the kara needs to be made of sarbloh (iron/steel). Sarbloh carries deep symbolism in Sikhism.
Regarding safety concerns, those parents should be more afraid of what schoolgirls carry in their makeup bags than the blunt kirpans… I know I can do some serious damage with my tweezers, cuticle scissors and eyelash curler.
When Sikh kids in Indian schools are not allowed to carry kirpan why are the fundies in Canada making such a fuss? Canada as usual is wrong again by bowing to the wishes of these Khalistani terrorists.
As someone said above Sikhs in India have moved to modern times while the (primarily) Khalistani Canadian Sikhs are stuck in a timewrap and now forcing their customs on their children.
What a shame that these tiny minority Khalistani Sikhs get to say what is good for majority of good Sikhs of Canada.
To continue further, just because the Kirpan can be used as a weapon does not mean that the Kirpan should be banned outright. I googled up gun safety courses and fencing classes in high schools and there are a lot of schools in America which allow both gun safety courses and fencing classes to high school students. Both guns and swords are weapons and not normally allowed in schools, but both guns and swords are allowed when appropriate precautions are taken and certain restrictions put on the usage etc. Likewise, we can put similar restrictions on the kirpan as to its usage and style. Banning it outright makes no sense and reeks of prejudice and ignorance.
Jas,
According to wikipedia, it was 8 inch long kirpan. That is a full-fledged weapon which may be misused. If you have better details about the case, please post. “The issue started when a 12 year old student dropped a 20 cm (8 inches) long kirpan in school. School staff and parents were very concerned, and the student was required to attend school under police supervision until the court decision was reached.”
I am with you 100 % for a cerermonial 1-2 inch kirpan – In fact, I know many Sikhs that do that with ceremonial kirpan even smaller than pocket knife or pendant. However, here it was not the case. The Canadian School board offered a pendant option. Please think about it.
Canada as usual is wrong again by bowing to the wishes of these Khalistani terrorists.
Do you have any evidence which can substantiate at any level your rather preposterous and ridiculous allegation? Just because you happen to disagree with their exercise of their religion, does not turn them into terrorists. Also have you heard of the concept of ‘free exercise of religion’ or is that completely alien to your reactionary and hateful self.
A pen could do more damage than those kirpans.
I personally would attest the other K Kara could probably do more damage than a Kirpan. I was jumped upon by a group of four non turban wearing Sikh wannabe gangsters in a nightclub in DC. While one of them held my hands from behind the other’s relentless Kara barrage opened up my forehead. I underwent 20 stitches two days before 9/11. My fault: I was apparently dancing with one of their girls!
No ill will towards my Sikh brothers though.
Jabi,
Why are you bringing the term ‘khalistani terrorist’ into this? Just because an amritdhari Sikh wishes to follow the tenets of his religion (it’s another matter that you may disagree with the Court’s decision) that in no way makes him a Khalistani terrorist. You are showing your own poisoned, biased, and prejudicial outlook with that phrase. And Sikhs don’t have to live according to your definitions of modern. The Sikhs in India face so much pressure from people like you to give up their ways and blend in with your useless ‘modern’ identity. At least in Canada they don’t have hegemonistic Hindus (or atheist or whatever you are) trying to run their lives.
The Canadian School board offered a pendant option
Kush, do you have more details on the ‘pendant option’. I was under the impression that the school board banned the kirpan outright and gave no options to the kid.
The Sikhs in India face so much pressure from people like you to give up their ways and blend in with your useless ‘modern’ identity. At least in Canada they don’t have hegemonistic Hindus (or atheist or whatever you are) trying to run their lives.
So while you were responding to crap from some guy, you couldn’t keep yourself from saying worse crap. No Sikhs in India don’t face any pressure. That’s bullshit period. Go ask India’s Sikhs for a firsthand opinion.
Canada as usual is wrong again by bowing to the wishes of these Khalistani terrorists.
Do you have any evidence which can substantiate at any level your rather preposterous and ridiculous allegation? Just because you happen to disagree with their exercise of their religion, does not turn them into terrorists. Also have you heard of the concept of ‘free exercise of religion’ or is that completely alien to your reactionary and hateful self.
yes, i agree….DO you? no matter where we are, we surely aren’t THAT bad! and then again…..how far away are you from what you call us, jabi? really, watch what you say – because when you condemn soemone with ignorance, it speaks volumes of yoruself.
I notice whenever Sikh issues (specifically those related to efforts on the part of Sikhs to maintain their own identity) crop up, there’s always a small but venomous subset of folks ready to immediately attack. That too with the harshest of words. Oftentimes they are Punjabi Hindus. Just because you guys (the lunatic fringe) have turned your back on your language, culture, traditions, and identity, why try to bring down those who have not done so, and maintain their pride and self-respect?
Kush Tandon,
Personally, I kinda thought of 8 inches as being small. Size does matter… but I guess its relative since the real kirpans are much longer. And too me, a blunt 8” kirpan is no different in terms of safety issues than the 12” metal rulers used by students at my school.
Also havenÂ’t you ever engaged in the “weapons” in metal or woodshop classes? A student could kill someone with those saws, drills, etc. but they’re not banned in most schools. After watching the news today, IÂ’d be more concerned about some student running me over with their car. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/05/national/05carolina.html Should we ban students from driving cars at schools now?
“but told Gurbaj and his parents that Gurbaj would be permitted to wear a kirpan-shaped pendant “
ALM,
Right above in the post you are commenting on by Dave himself. I am giving him the benefit of doubt that he researched the case well.
I know a Sikh friend who wears a kirpan pendant. Ir is like any other pendant.
I am all for freedoms (religion, speech, etc.) in a democracy but smartly. In general, I am even leary of weapons floating around, and therefore, I am even not a fan of NRA, and all their second amendment numbo-jumbo. How is this different than cancealed weapon issue in US if one uses a 8 inch kirpan?
That’s bullshit period. Go ask India’s Sikhs for a firsthand opinion.
Also haven’t you ever engaged in the “weapons” in metal or woodshop classes?
I do traditional Shotokan karate. Unless you are a very high-level black belt, you do bamboo weapons. Shotokan karate is not a regilion, and therefore, I am not asking anyone for bamboo option in a religion.
I lived in deep South for 10 years, I know gun issue pretty well. Training et al. is all well but it breaks down in School system. Weapons trainig is done in a confined way, if you know what I mean. I have been to a shooting range.
Let’s agree to disagree. I guess 1-2 inch option is not acceptable to you. I said my piece, that’s all. I am not a Sikh, it is not my issue.
Personally, I kinda thought of 8 inches as being small. Size does matter… but I guess its relative since the real kirpans are much longer. And too me, a blunt 8” kirpan is no different in terms of safety issues than the 12” metal rulers used by students at my school.
seriously! it’s not like he lugged in a 3 footer sri saheb! when i was in school, one kid gave a girl a good punch…she was hurt pretty well. he was arrested for it.
Just because you guys (the lunatic fringe) have turned your back on your language, culture, traditions, and identity, why try to bring down those who have not done so, and maintain their pride and self-respect?
kudos, amitabh!
1984. enough said.
Very Ignorant and a very cheap shot too. The issue was if Hindus have been forcing Sikhs to disavow their way of living/religion e.t.c. The answer is a big NO. The riots didn’t happen because Hindus wanted Sikhs to stop carrying Kirpans and Sikhs wouldn’t budge. Read before you write.
I didn’t want to be dragged into 1984 but now that you have me let me give you a piece of my mind. The 84 riots were despicable. The riots have had a lot of exposure since then with various governments in India apologizing e.t.c The sad state of political correctness or liberalism gone haywire is evidenced by the simple fact that the equally despicable Sikh terrorism of several years leading upto the 84 riots is not talked about. What about the segregation of Hindus from buses and then gunning them down or the bombing of Palika bazaar. This crap would happen almost every other day for several years. Who is condemning that?
My apologies.
I did not realize it was an 8 inch kirpan, so have to rethink my opinion on this issue. While I am all for maintaining our tradition, culture etc, isn’t it asking for too much to allow 8 inch weapon into school?
And as far as people raking up 1984 issues, I say visit India and see for yourself how it has changed. As someone said, Sikhs in India definitely have modern outlook than the ones we have here in Canada. Having just returned from India (went there last when I was three), I saw smartly dressed Sikhs (never realized a shinky blank suit and turban is such a dashing combo) flying planes and what not. Heck even the Prime Minister is a Sikh.
But as usual the Khalistanis come out of the woodwork on these issues making all of us Sikhs look like idiotic lunatic Canadians. And while we are at it, let us not forget the Kanishka bombing by Khalistani terrorists. The same apathy of majority Sikhs towards the lunatic Khalistani fringe contributed to killing of 400 innocent passengers including many Sikhs. And whole Sikh community in Canada had to hang its head in shame.
Pattie ~ I wish I was around earlier today to help you deal with some of these comments =)
Pattie Kaur,
Are you on of those immigration attornies advertisiting in Punjabi weeklies about “asylum”? Your contant dragging of 1984 to all issues Sikhs on Sepia makes me wonder if you are on those immigration attornies milking up illegal Sikh immigrants with the promise of asylum and greencard?
Pattie ~ I wish I was around earlier today to help you deal with some of these comments =)
me too dear. i was getting quite frazzled.
Are you on of those immigration attornies advertisiting in Punjabi weeklies about “asylum”? Your contant dragging of 1984 to all issues Sikhs on Sepia makes me wonder if you are on those immigration attornies milking up illegal Sikh immigrants with the promise of asylum and greencard?
actually, i’m an artist. i paint and sculpt. i mentioned 1984 once. so this makes it allll over. sorry, to enchnat your fantasies, but no. however – tom/nick/jabi whoever you wish to call yourself, watch your words. you’re not herlading a warm welcome.
milking up illegal Sikh immigrants
also, i take much serious offence to the idea of milking up anyone. if you have read the site soo well, you’ll have known about connections, which are far from dishonest and so low.
It’s funny how an 8 inch long Kirpan is being defended as something that should be permissible in a school. Blunt or not, it’s got plenty of intimidation potential. For those who talk about how fencing etc is permitted – they are permitted in controlled environments. This Kirpan is something that the student would wear all the time during school hours. If concealed weapons is not permitted by law, it should be the same for everyone irrespective of what your religious beliefs say. If I join a religion that advocates that I should carry a grenade with me at all times, but it should never be used, would you be happy if I paid a visit to a school? Or would you defend it saying that my freedom of religious expression should be protected?
Remember, your freedom (religious/whatever) does not supercede my right to personal safety.
Unfortunately, the school did not offer the option of a smaller sized kirpan. A pendant (even an 8″ one) in the shape of a kirpan would not be acceptable as it is not a kirpan. HOwever, a smaller sized kirpan should be acceptable to most Sikhs.
In reference to Gurbaj’s 8″ kirpan, I wonder if the handle size is being counted in its size. Most of the kirpans I see worn by Sikhs have the sheathed part thats like 2″ to 4″ with an 4″ handle. The Sikh community must come up with uniform standard for wearing kirpans in schools or other public arena. Additionally, I think it would be a good idea to let school officials and concerned parents feel the blunt edges of these kirpans as this would dispell the idea of the ceremonial kirpan being a knife or daggar.
Although I support blunt kirpans in schools, I have to question why Gurbaj concealed
his kirpan… why wear a kirpan if you are afraid to wear it openly?
A quote from the decision that might be relevant to this discussion:
Ananthan, you’re quite right.
the right to wear the kirpan has not given to all sikhs. it is only given to the baptised sikhs or those with whom wearing the kirpan is in character of their other religious practices. this is one of the central tests of who is allowed to wear the kirpan as a student in canada, as described by the canadian judges in their decision.
the kirpan is an essential and uncompromisable part of the sikh faith and it is really unfortunate to see that people on this site, most of whom come from countries where sikhs have the unquestionable freedom to wear their kirpan to school and within society, are writing about their ideas of “amendments” to the sikh faith in the form of plastic compromises, which essentially make the wearing of the kirpan a hollow exercise.
on the question of safety, we allow students to carry many potentially dangerous items at school. baseball bats, tennis rackets, scissors, and others which other posters have mentioned. if we allow these items within a free society, how can we restrict the freedom to carry the kirpan? is the call to restrict the right to wear the kirpan because it is a religious mandate, and that too, the faith or belief that you critics of the courtÂ’s decision don’t specifically adhere to?
why arenÂ’t you calling for a referendum on the rights of baseball players to carry their bats? or better yet, where are the calls to take the forks out of the hands of students in the school cafeteria? is that too not a potential weapon that could very well compromise the safety of schools? within the context of the user, these rights to carry these potentially dangerous items is legitimate and do not make the school a less safe place to be.
on the further discussion of safety within schools, within the context of the sikh faith, the kirpan’s purpose is to instill the value of defending the rights of the oppressed. other posters have explained the literal meaning of the kirpan. a baptized sikh is trained to wear the kirpan with responsibility. i think it is telling that the canadian courts noted that among the thousands of sikh children wearing the kirpan across canada, there has not been a single instance of misuse of the kirpan within the schools. this displayed to the courts that within the context of a baptized sikh student, the kirpan is worn with responsibility. additionally, sikhs wear the kirpan within a sheath—the gathra; the kirpan is not an object worn without safety in mind.
cheers to the canadian courts for affirming the right to practice oneÂ’s established faith freely and completely.
pk, Baseball bats and scissors have prescribed uses, like hitting baseballs and cutting paper. Even a chair could be used as a weapon, but we allow it because it has another practical use. The kirpan does not fall into this category. I don’t think this is a fair comparison to make.