About a half-dozen tipsters, starting with Seema, wanted us to point out this little tidbit in a New York Times Op-Ed published this morning:
 |
|
Give me some tongue baby |
SINCE it’s Valentine’s Day, let’s dwell for a moment on the profoundly bizarre activity of kissing. Is there a more expressive gesture in the human repertoire?…All across Africa, the Pacific and the Americas, we find cultures that didn’t know about mouth kissing until their first contact with European explorers. And the attraction was not always immediately apparent. Most considered the act of exchanging saliva revolting. Among the Lapps of northern Finland, both sexes would bathe together in a state of complete nudity, but kissing was regarded as beyond the pale…
If kissing is not universal, then someone must have invented it. Vaughn Bryant, an anthropologist at Texas A&M, has traced the first recorded kiss back to India, somewhere around 1500 B.C., when early Vedic scriptures start to mention people “sniffing” with their mouths, and later texts describe lovers “setting mouth to mouth.” From there, he hypothesizes, the kiss spread westward when Alexander the Great conquered the Punjab in 326 B.C. [Link]
Well who would have thought? In addition to writing the Kama Sutra we can now take partial credit for kissing! The Hindu right-wing activists are going to go into shock when they see this (or at least they will try and keep it out of California textbooks). 
For the rest of this week I plan to honor my forefathers by exchanging as much saliva as possible. Who is with me?
wow…and they wanted to ban the kisses from hindi movies back in the day.. hehe.. pucker up!
Let’s not forget the Sikhiss from this op/ed:
Let’s not forget the Sikhiss from this op/ed:
(walks about whistling in COMPLETE innocence)
my god, the germans got one thing right!
Talking of Calif. text books… for those ignorant (and misinformed) about the issue, please go through the article in Outlook India (very liberal weekly) and educate yourselves. At least read the tables to get a perspective.
The Germans are also said to have coined the inexplicable phrase “A kiss without a beard is like an egg without salt.”
and don’t forget the muzzies. dhari’s are only half the fun…though i have to admit, there are a few bare faces that are lovely too. 😉
haha awesome. You learn something new everyday.
so for 1200 years the only people in the world kissing were indians…
so for 1200 years the only people in the world kissing were indians…
so much for ‘latin lovers’!
that’s great. i always knew indians were feistier than the rest.
No more “FRENCH” kissing!!!!
I’m getting a little tired of every girl I like walking off with a french guy. Just because they’re supposed to be so romantic and shit…grrrrrr.
On the other hand…it is a bit scary that everything the old uncles say might be true after all…it all came from India!
Pah! Alexander! NOT!!!!Nobody spread around all over from one spot in the Caucasus. All brownpeople came from India. That is the new position– Euros are bleached brownpeople… so, okay, kissing is a brownpersons’ invention.
I think thats why “kissing” is almost non-existent in present day India. You know, Indians were trendsetters in this regard and have moved on 🙂
How do you think we reached the population of over 1 billion…we had to start somewhere…
One must also remember that these “Hindu right-wing activist” were founded by men most of whom were openly gay, and so I don’t think the most traditional ones will try such stunts. True, VHP and Bajrang Dal are trying to become moral police of India, and they ought to be beaten up for it. However, DO make a distinction between these two groups.
BUH??
Anuj, the outlook piece you allude to is right on the money. the hypocrisy of the left dominated california academy is apalling, but sadly expected. and i bet you that if you and i raise this subject in a gathering of [left biased] indians, we will be ridiculed in not so hushed tones and summarily assigned the hindutva label. to wit – the deafening silence here on sepia on the topic.
uh…more like my new job is kicking this California-born, bred and occasionally-public-school-educated mutineer’s ass. i love how random people will assign motives to us when there are none. here, have some proof of how hectic it’s been: i LOVE hosting 55Fridays and they require virtually no preparation/research yet we didn’t even have those for a few weeks. sheesh.
Yeah, and on top of what Anna said I have already written TWO posts on this issue. Out of curiosity where did you grow up? Which public school system…or which country? There are a lot of people giving opinions on this issue (many discussed in that Outlook article which also has its biases) but so few of them are from California. It is just an idealogical battle at this point. I too am a product of the California public school system (12 years). Unless you have similar street cred please go preach elsewhere. Thank you.
I too am a product of the California public school system (12 years). Unless you have similar street cred please go preach elsewhere. Thank you.
that sounded very similar to a FOB telling an ABCD “you haven’t lived in India, so you know nothing about MY country and culture. so don’t talk to me about MY country.”….i’m just saying…
MJ: while i definitely appreciate the point you raise, i also think abhi is right to be territorial/skeptical of people who are so invested in this controversy. the loudest voices in this debate should belong to californians. if my mom wants to scream, she should because it’s her tax dollars that are funding the public schools in our northern california neighborhood– if someone in iowa or new zealand has a problem with any of it, frankly, i don’t care, nor do i think similar weight should be given to their opinions.
By that logic, Mr. Witzel who is opposing the textbook changes is a Bostonian of German origin, should be kicked out of the debate. Similarly, his co-signators are mostly non-californians and non-US citizens. Thus leaving virtually zero opposition to changes.
No that analogy doesn’t hold in this case. ANYBODY is welcome to come on here and talk to me or the other bloggers or other commenters about anything. We are happy to hear strong opinions and opinons that disagree with us. To foster discussion is why we have blogs. “Expose” on the other hand was being snooty and disrespectful. If you disrespect us then we won’t put up with it (especially on a post that was clearly labeled humor).
anna, i do see your point.
however, i typed out a long response drawing parallels between your explanation and my analogy of FOBs vs ABCDs. deleted all of it since it is irrelevant to this thread and discussion, and was far fetched at best beyond the initial point i was trying to make.
(you do raise an interesting point though and one which can lead to an interesting debate….but this post was made under “fun” and i’m not gonna be the one to hijack this thread!)
As pointed out in this post itself, the http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/002613.html and the comments are closed , people – let’s move on and talk about the 3 Ks – kissing, kamasutra and khajuraho.
I meant, that the textbook thread is different (and it is in the url as in my prev comment).
especially on a post that was clearly labeled humor
abhi, see comment above. i meant “humor”, not “fun” of course.
Anna, while I acknowledge the immediacy of your point, I do think there are long-term issues which concern people throughout the States. What is settled in this textbook controversy will provide the backdrop for what goes into other textbooks throughout the country. It’s very likely that other states’ school boards will look to the California debate when choosing what to include vis. South Asia and Hinduism. It’s also very likely that these other school boards will use textbooks from some of the publishers involved in this controversy. So while immediately residents of California have the most at stake, in the end we all have something invested in this.
California sets the trends yet once again…
Yep. From our F.A.Q.:
i wonder if a lot of these problems could be solved if they focused on teaching MODERN Indian history vs ancient. trust me, i swoon harder over the latter but there’s no way they can teach every era for every civilization all over the world–when i was in elementary school, they barely covered enough California history–so if we have to choose what a sixth grader gets, this californian says keep it recent and relevant. and let that trickle out to the rest of the nation, as madurai vivekan rightly points out it will.
sigh. if there had to be a threadjack, i wish it hadn’t been here. this post was so cute.
Actually it is less to do with Indian History and more to do with Hinduism.
While lessons on Judaism.Islam and Christianity have been written by adherents of the faith, and the faith accepted as truth, lesson about Hinduism is written by academics (in my view biased against Hinduism).
Sample some remarks.
“Parvati is queen of elves”,
“It is said that whenever Ramayana is read, Lord Hanuman is near, Look around ! Do you see any monkey”
“In Hinduism women are inferior to men”
and such non sense.
Hindu groups who were trying to rectify this were labelled as Hindu fascist and hence a attempt was made to sweep this under carpet.
I do not know whether Sepia Mutiny covered this, but I was disappointed by the general coverage in blogosphere.
The arguments went like this.
1) Hindu groups are advocating the change. 2) By definition anyone who stands for Hindu issues is a ultra right group. 3) Facts are irrelevant. 4) Bash those fascist instead.
This certainly gives a new meaning to rubbing salts over wounds.
Regards
Is there somewhere else we can take this textbook issue?
Here guys,
Some exmaple of self-styled saffronists (in absence of better definition) and lack for respect for women on blogosphere.
I do not know what to say, read it yourself and judge. I found it very disturding and try to interject. I thought it was in very bad taste.
Please visit.
Back to the core topic…..
Well, it looks like Mallika Sherawat does indeed have some justification for claiming that there’s “nothing unIndian” about all her on-screen canoodling 😉
And ironically, she could actually have a more genuinely “Indian” attitude to these things than all those right-wing saffronist types…..
I think it was actually the British who established the censorship of kissing on screen in India: http://www.himalmag.com/99Sep/kiss.htm
Let me take a shot at steering us away from California textbooks….
Uhhh, good luck after revealing how much ice you consume. Bleccch. 😉
wait…how did “mouth sniffing” turn in to tongue wrestling? 😉 i propose that abhi expound on this at the first LA SM meetup, where he honors his forefathers repeatedly. 😀
so all of that “mouth sniffing” that my dad was so hell-bent to prevent, while I was in high school is actually humare parumpura? See dad, we weren’t behaving immorally, we were all the little sati-savitri types 😉
I don’t know . . . I saw my first Bollywood kiss about 2 months ago and I’m still creeped out from that. I think they need to get over their self-consciousness before they can get it right.
“Mouth-sniffing”, “Beard-sniffing”, “Oil-pulling”…..Ah, those quaint little desi habits and unknown-anywhere-else terminology…..
DD,
Alternatively, you could claim to be a flag-waving Indian nationalist, and you were only doing your level-best to ensure that you didn’t lose touch with your “heritage and culture” (even if it involved “staying in touch” with other people’s tonsils). Sort of like all those people protesting against V-Day.
“Mouth-sniffing” actually sounds like sticking one’s nose inside someone’s mouth (like a dentist…..aha, no wonder so many desis go into Dentistry, the randy sly dawgs).
When I told my mom about this post, she was so happy that India may have contributed to the origins of kissing. Who knew this could bring so much joy?:) Her first thought was to blame the British for the present-day reluctance in India to kiss in public…
Indians weren’t exactly able to freely kiss in public during Mughal times either, y’know…..
I grew up in India. However, I do have family in California and some of their progeny is in the state’s school system or will soon be. Also, my wife and I are planning to have little Exposes and Exposis soon. While at present we don’t reside in the golden state, but at some time in the future we very well may. So to answer Abhi – I have a legitimate and humongously vested interest in the ongoing slugfest. Don’t you think?
“I saw my first Bollywood kiss about 2 months ago and I’m still creeped out from that.”
Divya,
If you saw Bombay film industry (Bollywood) movies from early days (I think till 1940s – I am not sure), kissing on screen was very common. On the web, you will find many examples or history of Indian cinema books.
It was a self-imposed rule when the movie makers said that kissing on screen was a foriegn concept.
Bollywood kisses galore.
I saw my first Bollywood kiss about 2 months ago and I’m still creeped out from that. I think they need to get over their self-consciousness before they can get it right.
Its not as if you can see people kissing each other in India out on the streets. The whole society is ridiculously prudish.
Kush – I’ve seen movies from the 50’s (I think) – Pyaasa, Shri 420, etc. They had a lot of style back then. So if there was kissing in the 40’s, I’m sure it would not have been the squirm-inducing kind that I happened to see recently. RDB had a mild, tentative kiss which blended in well. Sooner or later they’ll get it right and spare us the heaving bosoms and drama.
If you saw Bombay film industry (Bollywood) movies from early days (I think till 1940s – I am not sure), kissing on screen was very common.
I dont think movies back then (with some exceptions) had the mass appeal that Bollywood started to have from the late 60s – they were movies not for the “masses” but for the “classes.” I can’t imagine that more than a small % of people understood the highfalutin urdu in some of those older movies.
Ros: I think it was actually the British who established the censorship of kissing on screen in India: http://www.himalmag.com/99Sep/kiss.htm
Madhu: When I told my mom about this post, she was so happy that India may have contributed to the origins of kissing. Who knew this could bring so much joy?:) Her first thought was to blame the British for the present-day reluctance in India to kiss in public…
Jai: Indians weren’t exactly able to freely kiss in public during Mughal times either, y’know…..
Yup, just population control.
Thats interesting to know:) We shouldnt let go of our heritage!
whoop!