Earlier this week a SM tipster (thanks Ami) sent us word of this article in Time Magazine that does a pretty good job of examining the second generation Asian American experience:
The American story is, of course, made up of successive influxes of immigrants who arrive in the U.S., struggle to find a place in its society and eventually assimilate. But the group of post-1965 Asians was different from the Jews, Irish and Italians who had landed earlier. The Asian immigrants’ distinctive physiognomy may have made it more difficult for them to blend in, but at the same time, their high education and skill levels allowed them quicker entrée into the middle class. Instead of clustering tightly in urban ethnic enclaves, they spread out into suburbia, where they were often isolated. And it was there that their kids, now 20 to 40 years old, grew up, straddling two worlds–the traditional domain their recently arrived parents sought to maintain at home and the fast-changing Western culture of the society outside the front door. The six people at the New York City dinner are members of that second generation and–full disclosure–so are we, the authors of this article.
In the paragraph above you see a very concise reason for why the experience of South Asian immigrants living in the U.S. is different from those living in European countries, and totally different from those living elsewhere abroad. The fact that immigrants here spread to isolated suburbs helped them assimilate more quickly, while at the same time encouraging them to embrace inclusiveness by identifying with other immigrant populations.
If you were to draw a diagram of acculturation, with the mores of immigrant parents on one side and society’s on the other, the classic model might show a steady drift over time, depicting a slow-burn Americanization, taking as long as two or three generations. The more recent Asian-American curve, however, looks almost like the path of a boomerang: early isolation, rapid immersion and assimilation and then a re-appreciation of ethnic roots.
I enjoyed this article because I felt that they were describing my own experience quite accurately.
As a child growing up in Pennington, N.J., Fareha Ahmed watched Bollywood videos and enthusiastically attended the annual Pakistan Independence Day Parade in New York City. By middle school, though, her parents’ Pakistani culture had become uncool. “I wanted to fit in so bad,” Ahmed says. For her, that meant trying to be white. She dyed her hair blond, got hazel contact lenses and complained, “I’m going to smell,” when her mom served fragrant dishes like lamb biryani for dinner. But at Villanova University in Philadelphia, Ahmed found friends from all different backgrounds who welcomed diversity and helped her, she says, become “a good balance of East meets West.” Now 23, she and her non-Asian roommates threw a party to mark the Islamic holiday ‘Id al-Fitr in November, then threw another for Christmas–which her family never celebrated. “I chose to embrace both holidays instead of segregating myself to one,” she says.Asian Americans say part of the reason it is so hard to reach an equilibrium is that they are seen as what sociologists call “forever foreigners.” Their looks lead to a lifetime of questions like “No, where are you really from?”
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p> Similar to the people interviewed here, for me the University experience was where the Boomerang began its return trajectory. I remember that my freshman year another Indian kid asked me “so what are you?” I thought to myself, “is he kidding? Doesn’t he know I am Indian by my name?” He was really asking me what state in India my parents were from. By the time I was 18 I was intellectually aware of the fact that India has many states with many different cultures and languages. At a gut-level though I just assumed that all Indians and Pakistanis and Bangladeshis were the same. They all spoke Gujarati at home and their parents acted just like my parents.
Many children of the Asian immigrants who came over in the 1960s and 1970s say they didn’t find that kind of self-affirmation until, like Fareha Ahmed, they got to college. Raymond Yang was one of only three Asians in a class of 420 at his high school in East Northport, N.Y. “I always felt like I was between worlds, especially in high school,” says Yang, 28, whose parents are Chinese. That interim place felt like his and his alone–until he got to Brown University. When Yang was a freshman in 1995, there were 854 other Asian Americans enrolled–a full 15% of the undergraduate student body. “It was sort of culture shock. I had never met kids like me,” he says. “We all grew up feeling the tension between trying to be Asian and trying to be American. We really bonded over the idiosyncrasies of being between two cultures.” During his senior year, he roomed with five other Chinese Americans, and his close friends included children of Japanese, Thai, Filipino, Indian and Korean immigrants.
And finally, here is the the most salient point. The clearest explanation yet for those people that visit our website that don’t understand why so many of us embrace the label South Asian:
…tension is common to generations of immigrants. But Jack Tchen, director of Asian/Pacific/American Studies at N.Y.U., says these second-generation immigrants are beginning to find a middle ground and to “define a new modern form of Asian modernity, not necessarily the same as American modernity.” That is what sociologists call identity building, and for the second generation, it is based not on a common ethnicity, faith or language (except English) but on shared experience.Which is what the six around the New York City table are discovering. For nearly three hours, they tell stories about their families, their work, their heartaches, their joys. They discuss their Asian identities and American habits.
Abhi:
As one who emigrated from India at a very young age, and grew up here, I understand why the ‘South Asian’ label feels natural to you. I don’t begrudge you, or anyone else, the right to claim any–or no–particular identity. Indeed, I suspect the (perhaps vast) majority of 1.5/2nd gen people also likely identify with a ‘South Asian’ identity, if any.
Rather, for my part, the dispute arises over the implicit argument that the ‘South Asian’ label is the ‘natural’ identity for 1.5/2nd gen people. In the quote from Time you highlight the idea of “…shared experience…”, yet that amounts to a question-begging move.
There is no common ‘shared experience’, after all. Rather, you and others who prefer a South Asian identity, have decided to give greater weight to some of your experiences over others: the isolation of being an immigrant in the suburbs, etc.
Others, like me, who have experienced many of these same things, have not given the same weight to such experiences. As a result, I don’t feel particularly ‘South Asian’. I prefer an Indian-American+Kashmiri Pandit identity. Others, no doubt, prefer some other (or no particular) identity.
Since there is no reason, a priori, to prefer one particular manner of weighting one’s experiences over another I don’t think that ‘South Asian’ is the default state for 1.5/2nd gen people, as so many commenters seem to argue.
Kumar
Hmm, my ‘boomerang’ was S-shaped – grew up straddling between my parents Indianess and trying to fit in with my American friends in middle and high-school, rediscovering my ethnic ‘roots’ in my twenties, and then, after marrying a man raised in India as part of that discovery (well, partly) and subsequently divorcing, I boomeranged back to my own ‘roots’ – my own personal, mixed-up roots. Finding as much in common with Anzia Yezierska (you know, that Breadgivers book everyone reads in college) and Willa Cather’s immigrant characters, as I do with the SASA kids, or whatever the latest South Asian thing is. Anyway, it’s a personal journey and it’s an interesting one. It’s also interesting that two of my best friends are immigrants – Italian and British American. And not desi. I always joked with my Italian friends that they suit me best – like a good mix of the warmth and close interest of my Indian family and the open American society I like.
You know, I felt more South Asian or Indian or desi or whatever before I actually started hanging out with other people of my ethnic background. And then, I felt both an instant recognition and a feeling of disconnection. Wierd, huh?
Good article.
*I don’t care about South Asian versus Indian, personally, and refuse to be drawn into that whole thing again!
I specially liked Nidhi’s story. I think it’s a sign of being truly assimilated when Indians date African-Americans. The Hin-jew weddings are way too banal.
I also liked the matter-of-fact explanation of the Asians being “forever foreigners” syndrome. It’s just a question of looks after all and no need to label an entire culture racist just because of this (as our pal Valerie Kaur seemed to do).
They didn’t manage to reflect the cultural differences among Asians in the article, but I suppose that cannot be expected from second generation kids. I find Indians assimilate much more easily than Koreans, Japanese and Chinese. I think it’s because of the diversity already present in Indian culture.
Kumar – I’m with you. I totally reject the South Asian label. Not a matter of identity, just hate the label.
Yes, neither do I! 🙂 I didn’t intend to highlight that quote as bait but only because I found it quite enlightening that these six people from different ethnic background all felt this way.
An interesting post Abhi.Especially the comment towards the end…”those people that visit our website that donÂ’t understand why so many of us embrace the label South Asian”.
If shared experiences of the second generation is such a strong and unfiying force, then why is it that none of the second generation ‘East Asian Americans’ have this umbrella grouping……working in my hospital I came across so many of them but I feel a similar drive for an ‘East Asian American’ identity singularly lacking…they’d rather still be Chinse-American or Vietnamese-American or Korean-American….my point being,its probably not such an automatic and socialogically irrefutable idea as you like to think….there must be something else that drives you to find the psychological refuge that you do in the idea of South Asia.Because if the idea of shared experinces was to be the only factor,then,as I mentioned above,the same shared life experiences didn’t particualrly drove the Chinese and Vietnamese and Koran American to start singing songs of a United East Asian identity.
And to clarify,i have nothing against a South Asian identity…..I might be one myself…I just find it slightly jarring that some people feel inclined to proclaim it from atop at the slightest opportunity and self-gloat at how much more inclusive the ‘South Asian Indians’ are than the bigoted parochial ‘Indian Americans’.
Yes, very true and I’m kind of thankful for that.
My personal college experience was just the opposite. The other groups you mentioned integrated more easily.
Actually my friend, they do.
If shared experiences of the second generation is such a strong and unfiying force, then why is it that none of the second generation ‘East Asian Americans’ have this umbrella grouping
They do it way more than the South Asians do.
When I was around 15, my family took a trip to see the Hoover Dam. While we were standing with the rest of the tour group, the tour guide asked us in a loud enough voice: “So where are you folks from?” Before my dad could answer with his polite and typical answer which was always “India!” I, rather contemptuosly, replied, “America.” The tour guide laughed and asked again, “No really! Where are you guys from?” My dad was about to respond again when I, in a ruder voice than before, said “Oregon.” The guy didn’t look at us again.
While I love my ethnicity and everything, at the top of the list with questions like “Oh wow! You’re from India? But your accent is so good!?” I despise the attitude of any tour guide or white American when I claim that I’m American.
“No, but where are you really from?”
Gahh!!!!
“Oh wow! You’re from India? But your accent is so good!?”
DivyaDaycruz: Did you take a course at this center?[Note: This comment was edited by admin.]
MD:
Abhi:
MD, I have no wish to participate in yet another 200+ comment-fest on this point either. That said, I didn’t take Abhi’s remarks as bait; just thought I would record my dissent from the (seemingly) majoritarian view on this point.
In any case, MD I rather like your transmutation of the ‘boomerang’ to an S-shape. It underlines the diversity of the immigrant experience (and, for that matter, with the diversity of ‘ordinary’ folk). It’s also consistent (or so I think) with my point about how people don’t filter their experiences in a uniform manner.
Kumar
“Divya: Did you take a course at this center?”
No, but it wouldn’t hurt, except that I don’t really care. I came to the US when I was 27 and do have an Indian accent. Btw, I get the “your english is so good” comment all the time.
Anyway, why do you ask? I have a suspicious there is some sort of sarcasm or meanness intended but I cannot fathom why. Do indulge my denseness.
Divya, I apologize for incorrectly addressing the comment to you. The comment was for Daycruz and not for you. I was of course teasing Daycruz and was not being sarcastic or mean. I know Daycruz does not have an accent because she grew up here. I was playing on the ignorance of the larger population by asking her if she took an accent neutralization course in the way people ask her ‘where is she really from’ because she just cant be an American!
I caught and tried to head off the misunderstanding by editing AMfD’s comment. Did you both miss it? Also Daycruz is a “he.”
ALM,
Daycruz is a guy.
I am going to be completing my 22 years in US in few months, nobody compliments my English. In 80s, maybe once a year or two years – that too somebody trying break ice @ at bookstores or at laundromats or from drunk sorority girls. Either, my English is not that good at all or has really gone bad with time. I am being real serious. Not even when I have taught classes. I have taught classes with ~200 students. Nowdays, I do not go to laundromats. I need to break myself in the sorority circuit – any introductions.
When I go to India, I always speak Hindi and people speak to me back in English. They figure from color of my clothes that I must not be living there – bright red T-shirts, torn jeans, etc.
Even FOBs from Korea and Japan assimilate really fast. I had a friend from Germany in grad school – within the first weekend in US for the first time – he knew all the downtown bars, had dates lined up, and was playing guitar in a band.
Whew! Thanks. Anyway, it could be I’m not sympathetic enough to this issue because I am a foreigner and have never ceased to consider myself an Indian from India. But I do think of all the trials and tribulations one has to go through in life surely this is a small one. Consider also how ignorant Americans are about their own country. How can you expect anything different?
Some of us Indians would appear equally insensitive, I suppose (can’t believe I’m using that word). Daycruz’s story reminded me of the time I met this young Indian girl who could’ve been from anywhere on the planet and I asked her if she was Indian. She promptly replied, “No, my parents are.” (not angrily I thought, or could she have been offended?)
The comments that people reflexively see Asian-Americans as “foreign” is interesting. My personal experience is markedly different. With rare exception, people see me (and I’m 27, have lived in both places, live in the US now and have generally an American accent) as culturally, politically, socially “native”. I often find myself in the position of reminding people that I am “foreign”, that my national allegiances are not particularly American and I generally respond to non-native cultural cues.
Divya, this is a very interesting issue. Here is my take. In my life when I get this question from a first generation Indian it has usually been by one of two types of people. Person A might be missing India and is just happy to see a familiar face or they are just friendly and outgoing and are simply curious. To them in is natural and instinctive to ask you if you are Indian because of the instant bond they will share with you. Person B on the other hand already knows that you are Indian, and either by your dress or appearance also knows that you were either born or raised in the U.S. Person B is not asking you because they care to know you but because they want to challenge your “ABCD” identity to see if you are “Indian enough.” I can’t explain to you exactly how in a split second you can recognize what type of person is asking the question, but you just can. If I feel a person B type is addressing me then I tend to go with the “my PARENTS are from India and Africa” response, partially out of spite. If I am talking to a person A type then I will say, “yes, I am guju.”
Hari,
My experience is similar to yours. I carry an Indian passport and quite often I invoke my outsiderness. Yesterday evening, this beautiful blonde at the barrista wanted to know “Why am I not an American yet?“. One of my co-worker was surprised that I have why talked of visas when I visited Africa. Every election, people ask whom I voted for, and I say “nobody”. They get more confused because I am a junkie for US politics.
You know who is the most famous NRI who still carries his Indian passport – Amartya Sen. I know dozens like me. It might change with advent of OCI.
very cool!
Kush: If you dont mind me asking, why havnt you applied for citizenship?
It is very easy to lose permanent residency. Most Permanent Residents do not have understanding of how easy it to lose permanent residency and that you can lose your PR status for minor infractions. I am of course not suggesting that you are ignorant of the laws, but in my experience, most permanent residents are not too well informed about this area.
Also, with citizenship you wont have to apply for visas to go to Europe etc., and other benefits which accrue out of an American citizenship especially for someone like you who likes to travel. The American Embassies around the world are infinitely better in helping their citizens in distress in foreign nations than the Indian Embassies. If you get in trouble in a foreign nation, you would want to have a passport of a Western nation and preferably a powerful nation like the US. Now for people who dont travel, this would not be much of a consideration. But for frequent travellers it would certainly help to have an American passport in foreign nations. I am sure the Indian dude in Saudi Arabia wont have his eyes gouged out if he had an American passport. I know you are going to travel to Pakistan and you dont want to get in trouble there with an Indian passport.
Also if you were travelling abroad and have your passport or permanent residency card stolen, it will not be possible for you to return to the US for a long time especially now that the INS takes forever even for basic processing of documents plus the time it will take for you to replace your Indian passport. I have worked a little in the immigration area and I saw a whole lot of cases where people just didnt bother applying for citizenship and then got deep into trouble for the any of the above mentioned reasons. I am sure other permanent residents read this website as well, so I have gone into detail to illustrate some of the problems that can be faced by non citizens based in the US.
Al Mujahid,
Thanks for the above information. My husband first rushed through sorting out my PR status after watching ‘The terminal’ and if he reads your comments, it will be back to the immigration for a citizenship app asap! 🙂
I love this thread! Growing up in Tennesse and Alabama, I was hyper aware of race. I remember after telling people that I was of Indian descent, they would ask what tribe. Ha ha. Still, Southerners can be very friendly, warm people. I always knew there were two groups I always felt comfortable with art/theater/metal crowd and other desis. Subbacultcha.
Kush: If you dont mind me asking, why havnt you applied for citizenship?
I haven’t been PR for 5 years yet. A lot of my time has been on J-visa (childhood), F-visa, H-visa, Advance Parole, PR (as an adult). Thanks for your comments and advise. I know the vulnerability of PR, and it does bother me quite a bit. Also, a lot of jobs are not open to me like government labs. American citizenship has lot of currency in every sense – my brother is one.
A simple fight at a bar can grounds for deportation, I know.
Maybe, I should marry an American than 5 year-time period is moot. Otherwise, I have to wait.Thanx!!
It is interesting that ‘shared experiences’ figures prominently as one’s determinant of identity.
Look at it from the typical 1st Gen’s perspective. He/she identifies himself/herself with the hundreds of Indian-American Silicon Valley success figures. They ‘share’ a similar background: born and educated in India and ranking amongst the technology elite. In such circles, there is a cachet in being identified as Indian-American.
Technology, of course, is not the only area where a 1st Gen sees resonance of oneÂ’s background. One sees legions of Indian-American stars on B-School campuses, Venture Capitalists and Fortune 500 mavens.
Ditto for the purveyors of the written word: Rushdie, Seth, Ghosh, Mistry, Chatterjee, Roy et al.
Most, if not all of these individuals describe themselves (inasmuch as oneÂ’s bio and mentions in the press could be taken as an indication of oneÂ’s preferred identity) as Indian-American.
When there is a cachet to being Indian-American, why would one wallow in the morass of ‘South-Asian’ mediocrity?
Why would you take refuge in an artificial construct manufactured by a patronizing media/academia? To culturally assimilate, you say? Look around you at the wasteland of modern day American culture. This is what you want to assimilate? MIA? Shake your 2nd Gen booties to it if that is your rush but assimilate?
Why would you want to do that? The culture of the land, as it stands, is as inane as it is terminal. Yes, there was a time (not so long ago) that the country teemed with the likes of Steinbeck, Salinger and Updike. There was sweet, sweet blues, jazz and old time rock and roll. Whither the taste and timelessness of a Kaukonen solo, the poetry of Lou Reed, the grit and heartbreak of Robert Johnson or the sheer Americana of John Fogerty? And then there was the visual artistry and substance of Kazan, Capra and WilderÂ…
So whatÂ’s my point? Hmm.. OK, the point is: America sucks these days. Intelligentsia, Media, Pop-Culture..it all sucks. There are no real important individuals, no real artists to fucking blow your minds. All we have is mediocre, brain-dead, scared losers that only want to conform. Conform and get a pay check. Conform and secure tenure. Conform and get with the latest movement. And this is the media-academia combine that you guys want to kowtow to? Accept their homogenizing SA nomenclature without a whimper?
Throw it off I say. Shake off the SA tyranny. There is too much needless debate here. There is too much cowering behind labels that are expedient. Glory in your true, desi, Bhangra, desi sharab ka splendor. And go create some real art.
For me, there was never a problem with straddling two worlds. Not because my parents were secure in their own skin – hardly, the fact there are entire circle of friends is composed of solely Bengali Hindus (with a token Bangladeshi tossed in). Their children have forced them to expand their circle a little as they marry Gujaratis, Punjabis, whites, etc, but outside of holiday time, that was rare.
In my house, my bhalo name was used in school and workplaces, while my dak nam, interestingly enough, was a plain old American name. Even my Bengali friends called me by my American name, while my circle of Italian, Irish, and Asian friends used the Indian name.
Sundays were spent in Bengali Sunday school learning to read, write, and speak Bengali. Reading the Ramayana (in handy comic book form), performing plays of Bengali playwrights. I never had to wonder how a Bengali differed from another Indian.
My own lack of difficulty in handling being an Indian in the U.S. is owed (substantially, but not entirely) to something largely beyond my control – my appearance. Character is important, but appearances do matter. On my most recent flight from NY, the fifty-something stewardess attempted to strike up a conversation with me in Italian, thinking I was a paisan. While dining with a Marwari, she remarked that she thought I was Middle Eastern. Even when tying my shoes outside a Kali temple on LI, a guy taking a cigarette break asked, “Are you here with one of the Bengali families?”, thinking I looked out of place. Had I looked like Angkur, the Indian contestant on Beauty and the Geek, my experiences would be different.
IÂ’m not going to comment on the old IA versus SA argument.
KXB:
Would you mind expanding on ‘dak’ vs ‘bhalo’ names? Is this common in the Bengali community? I’ve not run across it in Kashmiri pandits; though I can think of something analagous.
Kumar
Maybe, I should marry an American than 5 year-time period is moot. Otherwise, I have to wait.Thanx!!
If you marry an American citizen, you first have to get your conditional green card which will take anywhere from between 6 months to 2-3 years depending on your location. If you are in New York, LA or any of the other big cities, it takes forever to get the condition green card. Once you get the conditional green card and are still married to the same US Citizen for another 3 years, you will be eligible for citizenship. So if you got married tomorrow, you will be eligible for citizenship in another 3 1/2 to 5 years depending on your location. So if you already have Permanent Residency in the US, marriage wont help you much.
Note: As I understand, they have recently streamlined the interview/green card process for people married to US Citizens, so the initial time period of getting the conditional green card might have been shortened. However, you still will have to wait another 3 years after getting your conditional green card to be eligible for citizenship.
So if you got married tomorrow, you will be eligible for citizenship in another 3 1/2 to 5 years depending on your location.
Then it will do me no good, change of plans, original battle plan still in place. No more sepia mutiny, no more, more.
Thanks seriously, ALM. Answering all the questions, you do not have to do it for anyone. My attorney who I used for PR would have already charged me $400-500 for the amount of post you have written. Simple email inquiries used to cost me in hundred of dollars.
Anyway thanks.
how nice for you, to literally be born in to such privilege. then again, i’m sure you’d be just as possessive of your specific background if you weren’t part of that most endangered species of hindu brahmins, right? after reading this excellent post, i am glad that i am one of those twice-born types who is secure in my skin, in THIS country, where no one gives a rat’s ass what caste you are. you know, it’s facile to hold up an umbrella when you’re not carrying irrelevant baggage.
Kumar,
Bhalo nam translates into “good name” – this is the name on your birth certificate, what we used at school and work. Dak nam although translate means “called name” – no one in your family would address you by your good name, so when you are introduced to a relative, they will ask not for your name, but what you’re called. Jhumpa Lahiris “The Namesake” pretty much covers this matter.
I’ve been asked this too … and though it was asked in a well intended way I remember feeling mildly offended.
Abhi
Totally agree! I’ve been in the United States only a short while and I do know of a few people who are just so spiteful and suspicious of second gen Indians its not funny – and for no apparent reason either.
I don’t think Indians are the most tolerant, accepting people around (Indians from India as well as people who grew up here).
Now this is another stupid thing people keep saying which I fail to understand – your English can be good or bad but how the hell is an accent good or bad?
I’ve been asked this too … and though it was asked in a well intended way I remember feeling mildly offended.
It has been mostly from friends, and co-workers with always best and friendly intentions. I have always taken them as friendly gestures. Sometimes, also from people who I am talking politics (even I do not know them).
In last 3-4 weeks, I have noticed a lot of 2nd genners have been feeling down (sad) because people ask where they are from and really want to know their ancestory. People ask me where I am from, and I ask people (even the Mayflower crowd) where they are from 3-4 times a day. Sometimes, that is the safest way to initiate a conversation. Get a beautiful women in a room full of people – in 20 minutes everyone will know whether her grandmother was from Brazil, her father from Ireland, her mom from Wisconsin. So why bother?
I know sepia mutiny crowd is very righteous, and proper and good people – if you guys have ever read a Playboy. Playboy centerfolds are most of time showcased as Irish-Americans, Polish-Americans, Russians, or something like Irish-Portugese-Brazil-Cherokee Americans. That is how I came to know of Brooke Burke ancestory.
Chaalo, I learned something today. Thanks Kush.
Also, be mindful of the rules regarding Selective Services http://www.sss.gov. You may need a “Status Information” letter from them before you apply for American Citizenship.
KXB:
Thanks for the response. I can’t promise you I’ll pick up a Lahiri novel soon, but I’ll eventually get around to it.
Communis Rixatrix:
I’m privileged and insecure? Astonishing amount of presumption on your part, really! Why I might even suspect prejudice on your part, but that’s unlikely given your ‘liberal’ disposition.
What underwrites your inference about my character? YouÂ’ve never met me. Oh wait, I said I thought of myself (partly) as a Kashmiri Pandit. Hence, IÂ’m privileged and insecure. A non-sequitir, CR.
Privileged? CR, Kashmiri Pandits were forced to leave the Valley; many are still stuck in refugee camps in Jammu. My extended family, and other families, were lucky enough to be able to build new lives in America and elsewhere in India.
Insecure? Once again, for the record: Being a Kashmiri Pandit does not amount to only being a Brahmin of a particular sort, or claiming ‘twice-bornÂ’ status out of insecurity–at least not for me or other Kashmiri Pandits that I know. Rather, itÂ’s about the language (Koshur), food (rogan josh and hak), religion (in my case, my granddad and dadÂ’s combination of Purva Mimamsa + Shaiva + Vaidika), memories of a summer spent occasionally cycling around Dal Lake, among other things.
Nothing extraordinary about any of this, really; like others, I wish to cultivate and preserve my familial inheritance—my family’s Purva Mimaska take on ‘Hinduism’ and the food, among other things.
You despicably gloat that Kashmiri Pandits are “…that most endangered species of hindu Brahmins…”. I’m sorry to disappoint you (and the jihadi terrorists who drove hundreds of thousands of us from the Valley), but weÂ’re going to be around for some time yet. Yeah, CR, tying you to the jihadis is an unwarranted cheap shot; just thought I would give you a taste of what you dish out.
Kumar
A story (bear with me, cuz I think it speaks to this issue):
A few years ago I heard the great anthropologist/physician/rabble rouser/future Nobel Prize winner Paul Farmer speak about his work with AIDS patients in Haiti. The good doctor shared an anecdote about an older woman who was taking both the anti-retroviral meds that he had provided in addition to a concoction procurred from a traditional healer.
“Why are you taking both?” asked Farmer.
Pitying the simple mindedness of this young white boy she replied with exasperation, “Honey, don’t you understand complexity?”
Ah, complexity…
I am fascinated by the vigor (and occasional vitriol) with which this South Asian / Indian dialogue has taken place – on this site, in dorm rooms, in print, in our own minds. Yeah, some of the posts got my blood boiling. Still, I love the complexity at the heart of this. So many of us have offered our own stories as examples of why we choose one or the other. Or don’t choose. To me, the thing is that we have a choice. We even have a choice not to choose. There may be strong sentiments and occasional pressure, but no tyranny.
I think Rushdie said it best, “I too have ropes around my neck. I have them to this day, pulling me this way and that, Indian and South Asian, the nooses tightening, commanding, choose, choose. I buck, I snort, I whinny, I rear, I kick. Ropes, I do not choose between you. Lassoes, lariats, I choose neither of you, and both. Do you hear? I refuse to choose.” Okay, so maybe he said “East and West” in lieu of “Indian and South Asian”. Yeesh, y’all are such sticklers for details.
Karmacola – Zat’s quite a lot of romanticization about 20th century America. The 10 artists whom you cite as exemplifying a more culturally significant United States span the eras of Jim Crow and the Great Depression, the Cold War and McCarthyism, Vietnam and Gomer Pyle. Dark times. Some dark times indeed. As for an America teeming with the likes of Steinbeck, Salinger, Updike et al, I’d say that these guys are notable because they are rare. They stand out because America was NOT teeming with them. And as for Americans today who are blowing minds, look around you – Paul Farmer, Noam Chomsky, John Stewart, Miranda July, Todd Solonz, Dave Eggers, Suzan Lori-Parks – you don’t have to agree with this list, it’s just to point out that there are people who are thinking, innovating, writing, creating. Just because you’re not aware of them doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
In terms of writers, does Canadian resident Rohinton Mistry really consider himself Indian American? Since when is Arundhati Roy making this assertion? And Salman Rushdie? Did you perhaps mean ‘Indian’ and not ‘Indian American’?. If the former, the error is forgiven. If you actually meant the latter though, your lack of knowledge about the authors you cite detracts from your overall argument.
Dismiss MIA and her booty shakeitude if you will (perhaps SOMEONE should add a few more beats to make them bang onto the ole iPod…). I see her as a moden iteration of a tradition evolving out of the same sources as the “sweet, sweet blues, jazz and old time rock and roll” that you so nostalgically cite. In other words, an artist shaped by violence, poverty, racism, one whose appeal mercilessly cuts through ethnicity, class and culture, one who has found an outlet for her desire to get people dancing despite the storm raging at the door.
That the girl can simultaneously lay down a good beat AND bring some shred of consciousness about decades of Sri Lanka’s internecine conflict to club kids, indie music fiends and people who just like to booty shake is no small feat. It’s also strikes me as crazy ironic that you would cite a Tamil Sri Lankan refugee woman who grew up in the squalor of a London housing project as a reason why someone would want to assimilate. But while we’re at it, yes, Maya Arulpragasam is one reason why I’m proud to be South Asian; she’s hot, she’s smart, she can roll lyrics about the PLO and globalizations into a dance hall beat. If it’s cache you’re looking for, that’s one kind that many of us are happy to cash in on. To hell with dem Silicon Valley Injuns (who seem pretty durn good at conforming to get a paycheck, by the way). I sense that you don’t know that much about MIA, thus the diss to her. From Colombo / to the Congo / can’t stereotype Maya’s thing, yo!
Look at it from the typical 1st Gen’s perspective. He/she identifies himself/herself with the hundreds of Indian-American Silicon Valley success figures. They ‘share’ a similar background: born and educated in India and ranking amongst the technology elite. In such circles, there is a cachet in being identified as Indian-American. Technology, of course, is not the only area where a 1st Gen sees resonance of one’s background. One sees legions of Indian-American stars on B-School campuses, Venture Capitalists and Fortune 500 mavens.
What about some kinship with the Indian cab drivers, Indians at the counter of almost every Kwik-E-Mart in the North East and every motel. I guess I forgot the narrative. All First gens are stories of success.
Kumar writes:
Very well put.
M. Nam
PS: Kush, you definitely should become an American citizen!
Speaking of umbrella labels….Africa is a huge continent. Yet in the US, it’s frequently referred to as if it were a country. I undertstand the complex history of the term “African-American.” But over the last few hundred years, life went on in Africa independent of race politics in the US, so I don’t understand why a recent immigrant would be identified as “from Africa” instead of from their country.
Well put Nina. Many Americans consider Africa a country and yet I sometimes perpetuate such a notion by giving the the answer I described above. I should be sure to correct myself and say Uganda, which I most often do. Again, it’s one of those things I usually decide on depending upon who is addressing me. This part however shouldn’t be dependent on anything except the need to be accurate.
AmfD
Newsflash: Ist Gen are more successful than 2nd and 3rd Gen
Please see research by Portes (Johns Hopkins U.) and Rumbaut (Michigan State U.), Levitt (Wellesley College) and Waters (Harvard U.)
The fact, however unapalatable thought it may be, is that the typical 2nd Gen grows up with the frustration of not being able to fundamentally better the truly heroic achievements of their progenitor. Hence the need to create artificial constructs for being more ‘evolved, refined’ Hence the coinage of SA. Hence the need to seek refuge in an identity where medicority is tolerated and mutually admired.
Of course, the cabbie and slurpee reference points will always exist. Feel free to have a better opinion about yourself in comparison to said cabbies and slurpees.
Mallumollu
Yes, I meant to refer to said authors as Indians. It would be monumentally indignified for me to prove/debate the merit/worth of contemporary art vis-a–vis that of the 20th Century. If you feel you are enjoying an age of cultural enlightenment, bully for you. On MIA though I will concede I was out of line. I was just chatting with someone whose opinion in such matters I respect and it seems she is not the usual shake-a-tush flavor of the month. My apologies.
Take care and keep rocking
Two questions:
Abhi:
Is it? Is being a desi in Canada that different to in the US? I don’t know much about antipodean South Asians, but there are a fair few now. Are there any Aussie-desi (Audesi, hohoho) sites?
Divya:
Why can’t it be expected?
Interesting thread! As a young FOB in USA I have learned a few things about me, western culture, football and the fact that the whole world stomped over India for past thousand years. No team can achieve the levels of excellence unless they make each other feel better about themselves. How do you that? 1st, mentally block all the negativity surrounding you, 2nd, read needs of people and help them achieve what they want to achieve, 3rd develop some obsession which will make you physically and mentally strong and 4th, believe in the fact that we as a human beings havent even scrached the surface of the unknown.
~~~I think it’s a sign of being truly assimilated when Indians date African-Americans. The Hin-jew weddings are way too banal.~~~
Late, but why is this considered an act of assimilation?
Feel free to have a better opinion about yourself in comparison to said cabbies and slurpees.
The cabbies and the slurpee givers are as much a part of the narrative of first gens as are the Venture Capitalists (also they are way more in number than your venture capitalists and fortune 500 CEOs) You are the one who wants to purge all references to the cab drivers and pretend that they dont exist. I am sorry if bringing them up forces you to acknowledge a segment of first gens you want to forget about.
Oh well,I wouldnt go as far as Karmacola to suggest the first generation as’more successful’ than second generations.I do feel however that the parameters of success should be very very different.For the 1 generation,the mere act of migration is a success.I think its a fact usually underappreciated(and at most, reluctuantly acknowledged)by many second generation kids and many first generation people the3mselves that if someone decides to leave ones family/home/past and travels half-way across the globe to start a new life ,thats a remarkable success story in itself(even if you are a cabbie,slurpee etc etc).Yeah being the only brown kid in your grade must suck but it sucks even more to be the brown dad of such a brown kid and giving away the best years of life away from home,family and friends to enable the brown kid to attend that class.I am sorry if this sounds an oft-repeated sentimentalist crap but it holds.
Interestingly,I see a paradigm shift in the way first generation people are bringing up their kids and relating to the entire first generation experience.No longer is there the sense of aloofness and social insecurity that might have stymied the earlier people.There are no illusions about any ‘superiority’ of Indian culture over western but no apologies about it either.I am sure the progeny of this current crop of first generationers wouldnt have so much of an issue with the straddling of the two cultures.
is that the typical 2nd Gen grows up with the frustration of not being able to fundamentally better the truly heroic achievements of their progenitor
You have mastered the art of overstatement. So going to IIT and then coming to the US and getting a low level management job with unabashed servility to the boss and colleagues is heroic while the cabbie driver who puts his kids through college after working 65 hours plus a week in a dangerous job or the second gen who works for social justice and struggles to pay his student loans is fundamentally weaker!
There is quite a lot of name-calling that can go on about people who leave a country they profess to love but can not stand to be in. but in order to maintain a sense of superiority, name-call other people with no basis in facts. And, success as a person is not tied into making money. Quite a lot of people with money are not what you would call “successful” at much besides making money. Money is important granted, but its not the be all and end all for everyone.
Also, most of our parents don’t talk to us as their less successful progeny.
Also, the condemnation of American culture given above was trite. Much of the art used to condemn american culture is formed from American idioms. Try to formulate a cultural protest against the US without using forms of protest with at least some roots in the US itself. You probably can’t. Its funny to me that if a person was to go to India today, much of the culture is currently actively borrowing from a culture we seem to hear is lost and without merit. yeah. right. tell it to me after watcingh a Bollywood (bolly for holly) movie, go to a mall, listen to remix music at a record store, get a pizza, and chat on the internet; in english
is the debate about whose life sucks? i didn’t think it was about that. but if that is the debate, what is hard about struggling to succeed at work, coming home to a wife and kids and then hanging out with like-minded friends on the weekend? thats a pretty familiar narrative, no?