67 thoughts on “Hench-desis”

1. Don’t forget that Kiran was also the only oompah loompah in the remake of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory…

2. No, that was Deep Roy.

3. The movie, funded in part by a wealthy Christian religious activist, is awash in Biblical allegory.

   I haven’t seen the movie, yet, but aren’t the books the same? Not funded by a wealthy Christian activist, but written from a pretty intense religious angle. Is the movie simply more overt? When I was little I didn’t know enough about Christianity to get the symbolism, but the older I get the more surprising the stories — especially The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe and The Last Battle. [Link]

4. … aren’t the books the same?

   Yeah, and I didn’t get it when I was a kid either (‘Aslan’ is rhythmically similar to ‘Jesus’). But the movie’s resurrection scene and numerous religious lines are unironic and blatant in a ’50s kind of way.

   It depends on where you see the movie, but here hipsters were just cringing and laughing in the aisles. Jesus symbolism isn’t handled well here. At least in Constantine, another movie with Tilda Swinton playing a flawed pale person with supernatural powers, it’s overtly a battle between God and Satan.

5. I haven’t seen the movie, yet, but aren’t the books the same?

   The answer is that it depends. Once you have been told by someone that there is an elephant in the room, you are going to look for the elephanet. The movie appears to be overly religious but the books were not. If you read them as a kid, like many of us did, then you hardly noticed. I never noticed them to be preachy. Slate wrote an excellent article about this.

   Judging the Narnia books solely by their Christianity is an impoverished way of reading them. It is a reflection more of our polarized moment—in which a perceived cultural divide has alienated Christians from secular culture and secular readers from anything that smacks of religious leanings—than of the relative aesthetic merits and weaknesses of Lewis’ books. Lewis, devout Christian though he might have been, would have been the first to say so—in large part because the litmus-test approach has led us to overlook children’s experience of the books. The real genius of Narnia is the way Lewis built, out of a hodgepodge of literary traditions and predecessors, a patchwork world of unconventional characters who understand and instruct children without seeking to domesticate or indoctrinate them. The result is indelible, and anything but strictly allegorical.

6. After the movie, I overheard much griping outside the theater, in the bathroom line and on the subway.

   Woah!! You (a man) were on a line for the bathroom???

7. The New York audience laughed openly at all the unintentional camp.

   the new york part is the key. it has a relative paucity of evangelical christians who might go for this stuff.

   p.s. c.s. lewis was, according to some, an anglo-catholic (i.e., high church anglican) by personal profession, though before his atheism he was raised on ulster presbyterianism. so the religious background is a little more nuanced than the religious interpreters, like evangelical american protestants and secularists like adam gopnik would have us believe.

8. That stinks. I really loved the chronic as a kid.

9. btw, dwarves are so fucking cool.

10. That Adam Gopnik guy is funny. [from the newyorker article Razib linked to]

    “No cranny of heart or body remained unsatisfied.” That’s a lot of crannies for a middle-aged don to be satisfying.

11. I meant the Chronicles, not the chronic, obviously… heh heh.

12. Oh, Manish! You don’t like the Wizard of Oz? I used to adore that movie well into adulthood (I’ve seen it too many times now to watch it again, but do catch bits of it here and there since it’s always on). How on earth can you call that movie smarmy?

13. Anthony Lane, from the New Yorker’s stable of critics claims that the Christian allegory is about as easy to find as ‘a rhino in a phonebooth’.

    I don’t like paying $8 for a sermon. I guess I’ll pass this one movie up.

14. Oh, and as for the actual topic of the post? Haven’t seen the movie and am unlikely to until it’s on television and if it’s a rainy afternoon and I haven’t got anything better to do. I suspect I’d like the Christian imagery, though, because, although roughly Hindu and sort of agnostic (oh who am I kidding, I don’t really think much about religion) I like Christian imagery. I just do. Or, maybe I’d hate the movie. Who knows? I can’t tell what I like anymore……

15. Didn’t realize Kiran was a stunt double in one of my favorite action/sci-fi films:

    Aliens

16. my bad on the deep roy/kiran shah mix-up. crummy way to celebrate brown folk if I can’t even keep them distinct.

    anyway – interesting article on CS Lewis in last month’s New Yorker can be read here.

17. If you read them as a kid, like many of us did, then you hardly noticed.

    This is semi-true, but even as a child I could tell that The Last Battle was about the apocalypse. I actually think that the reason I didn’t get it was b/c I hadn’t read the Bible or hadn’t been exposed to a lot of Christian theology (my parents were adamant about me not being “brainwashed” when I was very young – their terms, not mine).

    ‘Aslan’ is rhythmically similar to ‘Jesus’

    What!? Where did that come from?

    You don’t like the Wizard of Oz? I used to adore that movie well into adulthood

    You should read the book, it’s a crazy parable!

18. Related, on reading books as a kid and not realizing the christian themes. i used to read Orson Scott Card’s Ender’s Game series, as well as his Tales of Alvin Maker series, and at the time did not know of the mormon themes in them. i loved the books though and didn’t mind finding out the themes in them later. both series created lessons on morals and how to deal with people in a just way, reading those books can give you a sense of appreciation for how much in common people can have across cultures

19. disney is proficient in christian themes..

    pinocchio… the whale (jonah and the whale), the conscience, etc… morality, etc.. such biblical imagry/symbolism in that story.. wrote a comparative paper about that some eons ago in college…

    k–study break over.. now onto some cancer talk.. cheers…

20. I was under the impression that the word “Aslan” is Arabic for “Lion” — not sure if the rhythmic similarity to “Jesus” was deliberate, although for all I know it may well have been.

    The Apocalypse analogy in The Last Battle was pretty obvious to me as a child too, although I’ve read elsewhere that it’s supposed to also represent the historical fall of Jerusalem to the Muslims. This is hinted at in the description of the invading army’s “cruel curved scimitars” — and although I can’t remember the exact reference (I read it a hell of a long time ago), I’m sure there’s some mention of crescent symbols on their flags too.

21. The movie is aimed at Christian moviegoers. The moviemakers do not care what nonchristians think about the movie. I expect the next post will be a worthless review of Christian music.

22. Regarding the New Yorker aticle, unfortunately Gopnik did a sloppy job of reporting. I am of the opinion that he played fast and loose with the facts, and mischaracterized several events in Lewis’ life.

    One of the most glaring discrepancies in the article occurs when he states that C.S. Lewis wrote “A Grief Portrayed” in response to his wife’s death. In fact, the correct title is “A Grief Observed”.

23. The review is aimed at desi moviegoers. The reviewer does not care what the movie producers say about the movie. I expect the next comment will be a worthless criticism of desi movie reviews.

24. Joseph Sobran on Gopnik’s attack on CS Lewis

    http://www.sobran.com/columns/2005/051122.shtml

25. I’m not convinced by Sobran. The Narnia tales were amusing in my childhood, but I remember being read the first book in 3rd grade, in Catholic school. I think it’s just too transparent that this is Christian propaganda.

    Lloyd Alexander, Susan Cooper, and now Phillip Pullman (who has torn Lewis apart lately) are all more interesting story-tellers. Good v. evil is expectable, but stop hiding behind the medium of children’s literature – at least Christian music is clear that it’s Christian music.

    Tolkien was very devout, even got Lewis the atheist hooked, but he was disturbed by Lewis’ direction, and thought his story-telling left a lot to be desired to boot.

26. The Apocalypse analogy in The Last Battle was pretty obvious to me as a child too, although I’ve read elsewhere that it’s supposed to also represent the historical fall of Jerusalem to the Muslims. This is hinted at in the description of the invading army’s “cruel curved scimitars” — and although I can’t remember the exact reference (I read it a hell of a long time ago), I’m sure there’s some mention of crescent symbols on their flags too.

    Totally possible – like I said, I am no expert on Christian theology or history 🙂 The representations of Muslims/Arabs in the books were pretty racist – the clearest example of this is The Horse and His Boy where the Calormen=Muslims from what we now call the Middle East.

    As far as whether or not the books were meant to be Christian propaganda, I don’t know, but I think they were definitely written with Christian instruction in mind.

    And for Orson Scott Card, who I really enjoy also, the clearest examples of his works on Mormonism are found in The Homecoming series, which is fairly intense. Again, not an expert on Mormonism and can’t really back everything up, but it’s pretty overt as well.

27. The trailer for this does look incredibly crappy. And when CGI looks bad in the quick edits of a trailer, I can’t even imagine how bad tit must be in the actual film. And unlike the recent spate of naturalistic child actors, Narnia hearkens back to when on-screen kids had super-rosy cheeks, overly glossed red lips and full-on pouty twee preciousness. ech.

    I never got into the Narnia books as a kid, and couldn’t figure out why. The whole secret wardrobe thing seemed so exciting, but the story just didn’t hang together satisfyingly. I was bored and indifferent by the time Alsan died. (he did die, right? I don’t even rememer clearly. There was some part that was supposed to be the height of grief, and I couldn’t care less.) Maybe I missed something.

    I do think that it’s a shame Lewis is tossed into the “Christian”side of our modern religious/secular divide. He is defintiely a christian writer, and his beliefs do seep into his writing…but he is of a generation, time, and educational background that offers a more nuanced, intelligent, accepting take than the evangelical wingnuts who’ve claimed that role today.

    Among is clearly religious books, The Screwtape Letters is a series of letters from a master demon in hell, to an apprentice demon on earth. I know that sounds so stupid, but what’s weirder is that it’s really, (intentionally) quite funny. A neat analysis of morality and how we rationalize our actions woven into an amusing correspondence.

28. Narnia was the number one movie at the box office. Philip Anschutz has a succesful movie franchise.

29. Camille, charges of racism are often levelled at C.S. Lewis’ writings. Judging from his other writings, I am confident that Lewis never intended to cast Arabs or darker-skinned people as inferior and natural adversaries. In “The Screwtape Letters”, Lewis writes that in times of war, a Christian shouldn’t be driven to feelings of hate because of a person’s nationality. (I remember this because I finished the book last week – thought it was an okay book)

    And if C.S. Lewis did indeed want to make all dark skinned people evil, what do we make of the evil witch in “The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe”? Surely he would not have named her “The White Witch”.

30. Ack, I meant “charges of racism are always levelled at C.S. Lewis’ Chronicles of Narnia”.

31. Hmm.. Has anyone here read Lewis’ Space trilogy? His other books are also nice:

    Mere Christianity The Screwtape Letters Miracles The Weight of Glory A Grief Observed The Problem of Pain The Great Divorce Till We Have Faces (REALLY good)

    I’ve got most of these in my collection, though I haven’t finished reading them all. C.S Lewis is too good of an author to simply judge him on a few of his works, much less Disney’s interpretation of them.

32. I started his Space Trilogy, but haven’t finished it. I was mostly uninterested, although he did raise some interesting philosophical questions about time travel. One day I’ll finish it, but only because I bought the book.

    Most of the other books you mention are Christian philosophical books. Some are quite weighty (e.g. Weight of Glory, Miracles) to the point that I can only read a few pages before needing a quick nap. Nevertheless, “Mere Christianity” and “A Grief Observed” are excellent. They interest me, as a Christian, because they address tough religious questions.

33. =] Yeah, I loved “A Grief Observed”. It revealed a side of his humanity that his other books rarely show.

34. why are we hating on stanford again?

35. Manish, Another day, another desi angle- another anti-christian angle. And the world continues to turn. So what is your point, exactly? You don’t like the books because of the Christian allegory? Or you don’t like the movie because of it? Isn’t this just another opportunity for you to attack anything that has the slightest tinge of Christianity? For anyone wondering, C.S Lewis may have disagreed with a lot of Christians on some doctrinal issues but he is still considered as a man who held on to the most fundamentalist tenets of Christianity. Imagine that? C.S Lewis a fundamentalist..

    Last comment- How exactly can you say that the movie is overtly religious and the books are not when the movie is exactly like the books? There was one scene that was different. ONE SCENE. Get over yourself, Mutineers, It’s not like you would have spent the eight dollars on something useful anyways.

    I swear,

36. i’ve avoided this thread and the stupid movie which inspired it b/c Narnia was one of THE most boring, unsatisfying books i EVER wasted 30 minutes on as a child, and i loved reading so much i read up to three books a day. there are only TWO books which i didn’t finish, during my entire childhood and this is one of them. and for the record, though my entire existence was surrounded and governed by hard-core christianity, i didn’t even SEE that in these damned books. if i had, i might have given them (gag) another shot.

    daycruz, i haven’t met a malayalee who was raised in a stricter christian family than i was, so please spare me the ridiculous allegation that someone who dislikes narnia is anti-christian. also, this blog which you find “anti-christian” fault with has six founding members: TWO are christian. that’s over-representative when compared to south asia itself.

    you’re usually a really kind guy, but the following sentence had me swearing words you probably wouldn’t appreciate:

    Get over yourself, Mutineers, It’s not like you would have spent the eight dollars on something useful anyways.

    that’s VERY christian. and mature. “i swear”.

37. C.S Lewis may have disagreed with a lot of Christians on some doctrinal issues but he is still considered as a man who held on to the most fundamentalist tenets of Christianity. Imagine that? C.S Lewis a fundamentalist..

    i think minimalist (i.e., ‘mere’) would be a better term. lewis’ ulster protestant background was much closer to ‘fundamentalist’ as we understand it america than his later in light anglo-catholicism.

38. Anna, it wasn’t the fact that he disliked Narnia that bothered me. It was that he used the excuse of “it was awash in Christianity” to dislike it. From reading Manish’s past work and other mutineers, anything that is from a Christian point of view is immediately attacked.

    I appreciate you saying that I am usually a kind guy. I hope I am. I just get frustrated when I read things like this.

    So, to clarify- I don’t think Manish is anti-christian because he dislikes Narnia. I think he is anti-Christian in general and dislikes Narnia because of this. I have to admit that you have provided some good stuff from a Christian point of view.

    Oh.. and I stand by my eight dollar comment. I personally couldn’t find anything usefull to spend eight dollars on either. Except for this nice prosciutto panini at Bella’s Espresso at the Streets of Tanasbourne.

39. daycruz,

    if you had ever been able to come to one of the SF meetups at caffe greco, you would already know that i am a staunch fan of paninis. 😀 just make mine mozzarella, since it’s nthoimbe all year long for me. no better way to waste eight (or in my case six) dollars indeed.

40. Awww… tear

    Group hug!

41. anything that is from a Christian point of view is immediately attacked.

    unless it is christian vs. hindutva 🙂 (jk)

42. Camille, charges of racism are often levelled at C.S. Lewis’ writings. Judging from his other writings, I am confident that Lewis never intended to cast Arabs or darker-skinned people as inferior and natural adversaries.

    I can’t make any arguments about Lewis’ larger body of writing, especially b/c the only thing I’ve read beyond The Chronicles is The Screwtape Letters. That said, whether he had some personal antagonism towards dark-skinned people or not, there are explicitly racist sections in the Narnia series. Perhaps I’m conflating terms – maybe it’s not rooted in a sense of skin-color race as much as it is rooted in vilifying Arab-like figures in the text who are presumably Muslims. Maybe it’s more religion oriented, maybe it isn’t. Maybe he used these characters as bad guys because of the regionality of the story or because, at that time in literature, it was super common to depict “exotic” civilizations as immoral or angelic. There are tons of villains in his stories who aren’t non-white (although this is kind of a silly way to look at it since most of the time they’re magicians or witches or some kind of fantastic charactrs). All I can say is that reading his works from my contemporary context, some sections are really wack. This wackness is unfortunate, because when little kids read these stories before they’re old enough to critically engage with the work, it can fill their brains with stupidity, a la Disney’s Aladdin.

    Which of course didn’t stop me from reading the books. 🙂 I actually really loved this series when I was younger, although I wasn’t as passionate about The Lion, The Witch.. and The Last Battle as I was about all the other books in between and before. I don’t think this reaction was b/c of some aversion to the Christian symbolism, but more b/c I thought the stories were kind of boring and that Edmund was a twit.

43. I am confident that Lewis never intended to cast Arabs or darker-skinned people as inferior and natural adversaries.

    that seems dumb. most everyone back then had views we would perceive as racist.

44. Who really cares if it’s got christian under/overtones. The one thing religions are awesome at is telling great stories, so here’s to another one.

    But yeah, as usual I won’t be able to enjoy it because i’ll be out trying to spot all the racist imagery.

45. i don’t mind racist imagery (mild at least) if it is entertaining. it is pretty clear who the ‘black men of harad’ are in LoTR. it is pretty clear who the ‘sallow men of the east’ are in the silmarillion. if you want to see evil white people, read some of ursula k. le guin’s work. or avaryan rising from judith tarr.

46. why are we hating on stanford again?

    Because we (and by that I mean the writer) went to Cal 😉

    You don’t like the books because of the Christian allegory?

    I loved ’em and was too young to recognize the theology. My guess is that if I were to read them over, it would still be more subtle in the books, as an archetypical legend, as a literary vehicle, than in the movie, which is pretty overt propaganda.

    Or you don’t like the movie because of it?

    Christ figures are common in film and great when well done. They can even be fun when not well done (Neo in The Matrix.) To me, the mortal sin is artless. This is a badly done religious sermon in the guise of a mainstream fantasy film.

    Isn’t this just another opportunity for you to attack anything that has the slightest tinge of Christianity?

    You seem to have trouble distinguishing between film criticism and theological attack. But I will grant you this: I find Christianity adequately defended in this 80% Christian nation and find it more interesting to write about other South Asian religions. Your (probably justified) sense of grievance as a member of a minority religion in South Asia has little bearing on the reality of Christian representation in the U.S.

    How exactly can you say that the movie is overtly religious and the books are not when the movie is exactly like the books?

    Didn’t.

    It was that he used the excuse of “it was awash in Christianity” to dislike it.

    Didn’t:

    The climax is a lame, in-your-face re-enactment of JesusÂ’ resurrection that had my Jewish theater mates groaning. The New York audience laughed openly at all the unintentional camp.

    From reading Manish’s past work and other mutineers, anything that is from a Christian point of view is immediately attacked…

    Incorrect, please back it up with quotes from non-humor pieces.

    I don’t think Manish is anti-christian because he dislikes Narnia. I think he is anti-Christian in general and dislikes Narnia because of this.

    I dig the free psychoanalysis, but my beef is with religious fundamentalists of all stripes: Christian evangelicals tearing down church-state separation in the U.S., saffronists doing the same in India, Wahhabis doing the same in Saudi Arabia, Buddhists tossing hand grenades in Sri Lanka… I have yet to hear of a religious riot by moderates.

47. I dig the free psychoanalysis, but my beef is with religious fundamentalists of all stripes: Christian evangelicals tearing down church-state separation in the U.S., saffronists doing the same in India, Wahabbists doing the same in Saudi Arabia, Buddhists tossing hand grenades in Sri Lanka… I have yet to hear of a religious riot by moderates.

    That has what to do with what now? So you weren’t being Anti-Christian but anti-fundamentalist when you said you disliked Narnia? And yes, only on Sepiamutiny would you find someone equating tearing down the walls of separation between church and state through legislation to Buddhists throwing hand grenades. Yes, only here.

48. And yes, only on Sepiamutiny would you find someone equating tearing down the walls of separation between church and state through legislation to Buddhists throwing hand grenades. Yes, only here.

    -_- It was a statment in proportion to each religion. Christianity preaches “render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and render unto God what is God’s” and yet evangelical fundamentalists get so rabid over certain laws, screaming “persecution of the saints” at the drop of a hat. (and I say that, being a Christian myself) Buddhists, on the other hand, preach peace and so it’s a bit disconcerting seeing monks hurling grenades.

49. just dropping my christian fundamentalist self in to say that i went prepared to like the movie, like many other christians would have(not all, anna, i wouldn’t want to make a sweeping statement), but I was sadly disappointed. The rest will have to go in my review, where i shall pontificate on num nums and centaurs with bollywood sideburns.

50. I liked the movie. I’d read the book in 3rd grade, and I thought they did a good job of representing it the way I had imagined (in spite of some changes to the story). The only thing that I felt was blatantly “Christian” was the concept of sacrifice. But so what? That was the author’s influence, it still made for a nice story. I did think they could’ve taken at least a 1/2 hr out of the movie with better editing though.