Over the tip line we got word from runyolarun about an organization up in Toronto that is promoting itself with a new set of agency posters:
“The Alliance for South Asian AIDS Prevention is a community-based, non-profit, charitable organization committed to providing health promotion, support, education and advocacy in a non-discriminatory manner for those who identify as South Asian living with and affected by HIV/AIDS.”ASAAP is a Toronto based AIDS service organization. It was founded in 1989 as a result of the voluntary efforts of members of Khush (a social group for South Asian gays and lesbians that has since closed down), in a community response to a request for support for a South Asian couple infected with HIV/AIDS who died in isolation, unable to access services in their own language. Our catchment area is greater Toronto and all the surrounding suburbs/towns. Our services include preventative education, support to South Asians infected with and affected by HIV/AIDS, outreach, and advocacy. Services are available in Tamil, Hindi, Urdu, Punjabi, Gujarati, and Bengali. You may need to call ahead to arrange assistance in South Asian languages.
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p>Seems like they do great work. I realize that I am about to possibly get myself labeled as a prude with the following comments (which I assure you is not true), but I’m just not that into their new posters. In my opinion AIDS education has always been difficult because too many people continue to associate AIDS with homosexuality or otherwise “deviant” behavior. In truth, as we all know, AIDS can affect anyone, and an important part in trying to educate people about the disease should be to reach out to populations who think they are above risk. With that in mind I feel like these posters are a bit too racy. I can’t help but feel that many people will think, “Oh, I’m not like the people in those posters (even the one of the straight couple). This doesn’t concern me.” To be specific, the first poster, which seems to be that of an orgy, has several buzz words on it which include “Slip n’ Slide,” and the poster of the Lesbian couple includes the single word, “fist.” Are orgies popular in South Asian communities in Canada (if so I am leaving Jesusland tomorrow)? Also was it necessary to use a clichéd Come/Cum pun on the poster of the straight couple? Am I just getting old? Do most of you like these posters?
..esp from a little community-based, non-profit org.
And also, they’re not trying to adress everypossible issue relating to the SA commuinty and AIDS prevention…
(sorry about the double post)
greet, good points, perhaps I am being too critical. Actually, I thought they looked very glossy and PR department-like, but that is a very aesthetic response and not related in anyway to the message or the campaign.
Is there any data on how different types of campaigns do in educating the public? I imagine studies are difficult to do and easily politicized.
MD, that statement is right on. These posters are just catering to(or with, rather) the lowest common denominator.
What’s with the f–king brocaded silks? Juggi needs to go find himself some Banana.
Naturally, since these are brown people going at it, we need to make sure even orgies look like they are lifted from a book named “The Annotated Kamasutra — bring the Exotic East into your bedroom” that you bought at Duty Free in Mumbai.
I am surprised no one has commented on that yet. My chuddies are in a twist about this one!
Double posting here….
And I know non-slutty swingers. The men are tweeds wearing accountants and their wives are either prototype soccer-moms or very conservative professionals. These posters imply that if you slut around, you get HIV/AIDS.
Contrast this with a campaign such as the NYC one, or the very viral Balbir Pasha campaign in India.
You know, the members of asaap might be the “gay Indians” Russell PetersÂ’ dad is famously dismayed by. 🙂 They march annually as part of TorontoÂ’s PRIDE parade.
Siddhartha & Greet, you make very good points.
These ads are not federally funded, they are not plastered all over the city. In fact, I haven’t seen a single one so far in all my cold wanderings. But if I had seen them I wouldn’t have shudderd and turned away. I’d be an “adult prude” if I expected “adult freaks” to respond positively (or at all) to nice text ads with cartoons for good measure.
Insight into the queer angle in some of the ads, ASAAP recieves regular donations from the Besharam parties that happen every month. In fact, Besharam and ASAAP have volunteers and organizers in common. The parties involve desi scene staples like DJs Amita/Zahra but are nothing like the desi parties you may be used to stateside. Their pride parade stage is also the best one every year. “Besharam is a queer-positive, and heterosexual friendly event.” Also, they play chutney and soca with their bhangra!
These ads aren’t really more risque than the Kamasutra condom ads back in India, with the exception of the fact that they seem to be a little more, er, creative with the various combinations they’re depicting.
DesiDudeInAustin,
I guess you do have a point. All they need to complete the image is a couple of incense sticks wafting away, and a stony-faced, inscrutible-looking bearded dude playing some tablas in the background. And a place of pakoras for some light refreshments (those models could work up a bit of an appetite, after all).
*place of pakoras
I meant “plate of pakoras”, of course. But you didn’t notice that, because you were too busy ogling the coquettish-looking girl in picture no. 3 and wondering where you’d seen her before…..
I think the posters are awesome, especially since they seem to be found on college campuses. The group with the fastest growing numbers of HIV infection is 15-25, and these posters target them. The problem as MD pointed out, is that there is huge dis-inhibition among youth. In trying to destigmatize HIV/AIDS, youth have grown up with the perception that a. HIV is no big deal, and b. that it is treatable. “Living Positive” posters have had this unforeseen side effect.
You should see some of the HIV posters that come across my deskÂ…ItÂ’s bizarre. When people try to be tame the message gets lost, in that it downplays the passion involved, promotes the notion that in the heat of the moment you have to fumble awkwardly for the condom package. I think these posters eroticize the condom (in a good way), therefore making it more acceptable, another step in the fornication process. ItÂ’s the advice given in (real) sex-ed classes: if you find fumbling with a condom package awkward, make it part of the sex act, have your partner put it on you, etc etcÂ…
Orgies are a reality and people participate in them. I know a few people who’ve experimented, although it usually a one-off thing, I know people who have visited sex clubs, and swinger parties…desis all…it’s not something they’d usually admit willingly, but it happens. So do we turn a blind eye? And the thing is that even those people who don’t have “deviant” sex lives but may have a prior partner or two but refuses to get tested…blah blah you all know the rhetoric…at the end of the day everyone has to be addressed, and I thin these posters do a good job of targeting their audience. Also I’m sure they were tested in focus groups.
These posters are targeting browns who grew up outside the motherland and that also makes a difference because the expression of sexuality is soooo different here (and I donÂ’t mean that these things donÂ’t happen there, just that they donÂ’t happen in the main streamÂ…HIV in India is being spread along truck routes and in brothels and by injection drug users and men who have sex with men (MSM) and then sleep with their g/f and/or wivesÂ…) on another note, watch BreakthroughÂ’s amazing PSA/song on HIV: http://www.breakthrough.tv/upload/mati.mpg
I think this whole protecting kids also needs perspective. ANNA, I agree that no seven year old needs to be dressed like a slut, but no seven year old needs to see another seven year old dressed that way either. Unless we blindfold our children we have to acknowledge that they see/hear things that we might not be comfortable with. But we need to address the situation. Now before everyone jumps on me, (hmmm maybe I shouldnÂ’t put in the disclaimerÂ…jus kidding) I donÂ’t mean to say that these posters are appropriate for kids, but when you have seven year olds who have access to porn (an ex b/f) or 8/9 year olds who are experimenting with touching each other on their morning bus rides (a friend), or have a seven old trying to explain sex (pretty accurately) to a five year old sibling (family friends kids and all these are desis btw)Â….you canÂ’t do the turn a blind eye thing. These stories shock and horrify me, but it is reality. I grew up SHELTERED beyond belief, but these kids, our kids, will not, so letÂ’s not go around pretending that kids are ignorant of these matters.
Condoms or latex gloves (split open), and saran wrap, make great dental dams, and should be used whether fellatio or cunnilingus is being performed, because as MD said, STDs can be transmitted by either of those activities.
HAHAHA I was trying to work in a way that I could thank you (Sepia Mutiny generally and Ennis specifically). Msichana and I met up last saturday and had a BLAST!!!!! So thank you…and I would be more than willing to do a DC meetup. And for the people in ATL over thanksgiving looking for Kenyan entertainment visit http://www.nomasana.com/ and http://www.kenyaniyetu.com/v20/forums/view.php?pg=events for the details
I’ve already put in my 2 cents, but I wanted to comment on this: YES there is one, and it was created right here in the labs at University of Iowa. A major drug company is sponsoring Phase III clinical trials right now. When it’s FDA-approved (which they think could be in as soon as 2-3 years) it’ll be marketed to peds and ob/gyn for young teen girls. (And hopefully mandated.)
(HPV has a prevalence of 1/3 college-aged women, and causes over 90% of cervical cancer cases.)
Ok I contradicted myself there. What I meant to say is that desis here are so much more open with their sexuality, they can be more so than in the motherland b/c they live away from prying eyes, parents, relatives, neighbours etc.
Except for Kenyandesi, I think that most of you are missing the point – these are, in effect, condom ads rather than being realistic educational depictions.
When you sell jeans, you show cute young people in jeans, even if the target audience is 50 year old aunties.
When you sell behavior modification, like not smoking, you show ugly people smoking and young healthy people not smoking.
If you want to sell safe sex, you show young, hot bodies having safe sex.
The whole problem with condom use is that people consider it anti-erotic. They may know all of the facts and figures they need about risk, but they really can’t use a condom/latex without destroying their own mood. This is a far greater barrier than ignorance about AIDS.
SEX SELLS people! And not ordinary every day saggy body, groping, confused bad sex, but idealized, glowing, kinky erotic sex.
These ads don’t have to be targetted at high risk groups – they can just show practices that people find exciting and titilating, and that’ll eroticize the rubber.
I quite like the ads, I think they’re clever in that they do multiple things: 1. Eroticize safe sex 2. Remind people that other people are having unsafe sex 3. Effectively communicate with the higher risk populations
This last point has been mentioned before, but it is worth underscoring. If you look at the epidemiology of STDs, you get more “bang for your buck” by going after a small group of highly promiscuous people than you do from general education. The reason that they emphasize that everybody is vulnerable and should change their behavior is more politics than medicine – you want to make the average person care about AIDS. However, it’s not your 50 year old newly divorced uncle/auntie who is of interest to the public health people, it’s your younger, more sexuallly active desikid who is bedhopping.
I’m pretty sure I’ve repeated myself by now many times. The point is, you’re misjudging the purpose of these ads and therefore their likely efficacy.
p.s. I too was amused by our self-exoticization. It seems that we need saris/mehndi/spices to get our own selves to notice 😉
Rupa – yeah U of Iowa (my med school alma mater)
Ennis – you make a very salient point, that the ads are trying to address a high risk population, which is one of the best ways to stop the spread of an infectious disease
*I just want to add that when I said I didn’t care for the ads aesthetically, I was making no judgement on the effectiveness, which is a completely different thing. If it works for the target group, then that is the most important thing. I can find, say, stop signs as an example, aesthetically displeasing and still recognize the utility.
**I love when there are such mannered and careful comment threads as this. I learn so much from you all! Thanks.
Even if you’re trying to make widespread behavior change, often the way you do it is by using somebody unrepresentative, like a celebrity, to glamorize the behavior in question.
Ads for safer sex will usually be sexier than the sex they’re trying to change – that makes it desirable.
Very clever. And nicely put.
The observations about possible “self exoticization” are interesting in light of the group’s response to MAC’s big “Bollywood Cowboy” fundraiser gala in TO. (‘Rethinking Bollywood Cowboy‘)
Forgive me for seeming obtuse, but is it necessarily ‘self exoticization’ or merely symbol-shorthand that emphasizes the South Asian self-identification? Sure its not creative shorthand, but it serves a function. no?
Yeah, I guess so. 🙂
My God, it all sounds so clinical, how can anyone have oral sex with a chunk of plastic in the way? It defeats the whole point. I’d rather not do it at all.
Dental Dams – dont know if this sounds kinky or sinister.
FYI In time for World AIDS Day (Dec 1), UNAIDS has released their latest update (2005) on the Global AIDS epidemic.
The publication among other things including some press coverage from launch events worldwide, can be found at http://www.unaids.org/epi2005/index.html
Interesting note: Dr. Peter Piot, Executive Director of UNAIDS, did the New Delhi launch. I haven’t read through the report yet, but I heard some of India’s numbers were troubling.
I still don’t like these ads. Sex sells to me also, but not this kind of shock value, “look how cool I am” sex. I am all for beautiful, oiled-up bodies but these posters in my opinion have taken the Howard Stern approach. I have seen plenty of ads both funny and sexy advocating condom use that are WAY better than these posters. Perhaps I should create a proof of a poster with me in it to illustrate my point 🙂
overall, I found the ads to be extremely sexy. Admittedly, I skimmed the post. I clicked on the pics and went “whoa! Those are hot! ok now wait, what are we selling here? ok. hunh. safe sex? that’s cool”… but I think it’s that kind of nonchalent approach that may make the ads work. Figure this– Theoretically, next time I feel warm and kinda funny, like when we used to climb the rope in gym class (old skool for you early 90s rockers), I’ll take a second to pause, think about practicing safely, and voila! successful campaign.
and yeah, like Ennis said:
how can anyone have any kind of sex with all the germs and viruses and bacteria in the way….
evil laughter…
I like your comments, Ennis. And I agree that it’s nothing more than a condom ad.
But as I said earlier (#13), I just don’t think the ads do this (your 2nd point) effectively. I don’t see any RISK here associated with NOT using a condom. These are like the Trojan commercials that are all over the media, except even more in-your-face with lists of sexual activities. The difference is that Trojan is a company that wants to make money, while this is a public health NPO.
In the end, selling behavior modification (which is what this is) is difficult. It’s almost impossible to get obese patients to the gym, or get smokers to stop smoking, or recalcitrant diabetics to eat healthy. It’s really frustrating. Because we can’t show them that the effects are immediate and we ultimately can’t sell it as being worth it. Unless they see someone they know and love fighting the same battle. (Like Magic Johnson. MAD PROPS to Magic. What great use of his PR.)
KD, I see your point, and I like that. I agree with you. I think ultimately it’s just one of many steps necessary for one’s behavior modification.
Yes, the subjects of the posters are well-lit and glamorized…
But youÂ’ve also got women with thighs and hips (and long hair that hasnÂ’t been made stick-straight), desi men and women with unquestionably dark complexions, breasts that donÂ’t ignore the rules of gravity…Not ‘sanitizedÂ’ hairless waifish little bodies. Nice.
The man with a condom in his mouth. –> I canÂ’t help but giggle. Something about the look on his face…I don’t know. Overall I like the posters, they’re not brilliant by any means (when have sex ed posters been completely free of all cheesyness?), but I appreciate them and the group’s work.
Neha, the Besharam parties look like good fun (at least from looking at the photos). Thanks for the link.
Also, I’m happy to discover there are so many people from Toronto around here.
Wanted to add another desi- moniker to further confuse everyone 🙂
Here’s my take. Note that I don’t speak for everyone.
Awareness is always a good thing. Especially when it’s awareness about health. These ads started out with the purpose of educating us about the problem of std’s. However, personally, I feel that this is more of an ad that makes non-desi’s aware that desi’s can also be gay and bi and have great sex (hoorah! ennis point #1). I suspect that sub-conciously, the people who created it had the best of intentions but may have let some of their personal feelings get in the way.
Just to explain, the gay community, is sort of dominated by a white-in group. There are deragatory terms (all in good “fun” of course) directed towards desi’s and other gay visible minorities. Probably alot of you think that a generally misunderstood and discriminated group such as the gay community would be more accepting of others, but this, in my experience, isn’t the case (Part of it may have something to do with the way gays are treated on the subcontinent…. it’s complex). In my experience, I’ve been accused of not really being bi, and I strongly believe that has something to do with my ethnicity: other gay girls wear lipstick too, and they aren’t questioned. I really don’t know very many desi gay and bi-sexuals, so I don’t know if they’ve had the same experience, but I suspect it may be the case.
Anyways, I suspect that this is more of an ad depicting “Hey we’re gay, too, and just as important as you. Oh, yeah, we’re empowered and we’re hot”. Great, but it doesn’t really fulfill the purpose (I disagree with Ennis point 3). Furthermore, it alienates alot of the parents, uncles and aunty’s out there. Not all of them are in exclusive relationships like I’d like to believe (this shocked me at one time) and I sincerely believe that they need the education, too. Especially, since when the left the subcontinent, education in std prevention was seriously lacking. And then some come here and believe it’s a gay disease. That worries me. I don’t have any stats, but in the west, anyways, unprotected sex may very well be more of a problem in the straight desi community than in the gay one. I wonder if the ad firm did any research into this???
So, hey, these ads are fine, but serious and frank ads are also required. I believe this is a south asian group ad, not a gay south asian group ad, so why not address everyone? I’m hoping this is just one in a series of ads, that will address straight desi’s as well.
bi-desi you make a great point. I remember being offended when an acquaintance in college (a gay man) sort of made fun of desi gay men…”you see these Indian guys in the back of magazines. I dunno, they just look so…..” The comment irritated the heck out of me and long time commenters know what I’m like when I get irritated!
(This was a conversation about My Beautiful Laundrette and why he found Daniel Day to be attractive, but not the other guy. Who was the other guy?)
On a related topic:
Move over San Fran, here comes Koovagum!
These posters are hot and they are the polar opposite of the usual Desi stereotypes. Too bad more of this can’t make it past public (well, college) awareness campaigns
All,
After researching a bit on this organisation, washing my face and neck with ice-cold water a couple of times to bring down my blood pressure on discovering some grissly details about this org, here’s my take on this…
When I read Abhi’s post on this issue, I agreed with him from a strictly “Are these posters appropriate?” point of view. True – they are trying to sensationalise this serious topic, and brown gay/lesbian being an extremely small minority, they are not getting bang for their buck (more on this below, trust me).
I should have just stopped at this and moved on. But nooo… Like a stubborn fool, I ignored the friendly advice from my well-wishers to never dig into details of any SouthAsian Non-profit organisations because that can have serious health effects on the snooper.
So I went into ASAAP website and started to prowl around…
The first shoe fell when I saw that they have presentation material in desi languages like Punjabi/Tamil/Gujarati etc. I don’t know the %age of desi population in Canada that cannot speak/read English/French, but that must be miniscule. But this is a small irritant, and harmless when you read some of the other stuff.
The second shoe fell when I read words like “diversity”, “social justice”, “equity” in their mission statement. What each of these have to do with HIV-positive desi people, I cannot fathom. If they had instead used words like “we will fight discrimination in jobs/businesses”, then I would agree with their mission. I did not find this anywhere on their web site. “Diversity” applies to non-HIV positive desis as well. “Social Justice” is another word for Socialism. “Equity” is usually used in Wall Street where I work, so I am not sure what these folks mean. Maybe they meant “Equitable”. But I don’t want to penalise them for lack of English skills.
The third shoe fell (I know, I am running out of shoes here) when I started reading their FAQ. It is geared towards people who do not have AIDS and who are not HIV+ve !! That completely blew me off – an organisation that purpotedly was created to help those who already are HIV+, these folks don’t even have the right FAQ in place!!
Another question/answer in the FAQ made blood drain from my face.
Question: Is it ok to have sex before you get your period? Answer: Yes! It is ok ..provided you use a condom….
Now, I don’t know how you read this, but I read this to mean as: Is it ok to have sex before you get your (very first) period? If this is not what they meant, then the question does not make any sense, even accounting for their lack of English skills.
Are they suggesting that it’s ok for under age girls to have sex? If so, my head reels at the very thought.
But I should have stopped there. Hey, this is a private org, they can do and preach whatever the hell they want. To each his/her own. Diversity. Freedom of Expression. Print away them glossy nude pictures – more power to you!
But no…I continued. And when I went through their 2005 Balance Sheet, guess what I found. More than 80% of their funding is from the Government of Canada!!
$250,000 is the funding from GOC. $50,000 is the funding from other sources.
$216,000 is what they spend of Salaries. $13,000 is what they spend on Rent. $25,000 is what they spend on Office supplies.
So, here’s a social organisation, which spends 80% of its funds on salaries/expenses, and the remaining 20% of its funds on doing it’s job(HIV awareness). To cut a long story short, this organisation has 80% overhead, even with the majority being unpaid volunteers!!
I don’t know about you, but if someone came to me and asked me to donate money for something (earthquake, tsunami etc), and they told me that only 20% of my donation would reach the people I want to help, and the remaining 80% would be used up by the organisation, I would tell them to take a hike with such anger that they would dare not walk on the same side of my street anymore.
The fifth (? I am losing count here) shoe fell when I saw that the credentials of the top two people are not clear. One of them is doing some real-estate research in SriLanka and the other is even fuzzier. I would have thought that important things like HIV+ awareness would best be handled by people who are educated in STD’s etc.
Do the taxpayer of Ontario know that they are funding a social organisation which has 80% overhead, has poor presentation and English skills, promotes lifestyles which are borderline illegal and has nothing to show as a return? How many people have they helped? I did not see any references to it on their website.
Folks – these people are trouble. They are leeches who pocket taxpayer dollars and show nothing concrete in return.
M. Nam
MoorNam,
You did a great job. Down here at Sepia Mutiny, facts are the first casualty – that is why I ration my comments to 1/ day or so.
There is a famous saying by Daniel Patrick Moynihan, once a Senator, an ambassador to India, and true statesman.
“Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts”
Facts, Who cares?…….what is damn thing? Let me be PC, fashionable first.
ration all you want, especially if you’re going to make unsubstantiated allegations. moornam brought up “facts” he uncovered for ONE post– you impugned over two thousand, or, an entire blog.
Very interesting MoorNam. Digging into the history of a non-profit is usually quite interesting…..
Kush – aren’t you being a bit unfair? I think that there are plenty of regulars in the comments section who care about facts. Did you read this whole thread? There is some good stuff here. And, as much as I often disagree with the SMers politically, I think they try to be fair.
?? How are facts the first casualty? Did MoorNam say that Abhi said something wrong? Abhi was commenting on the posters, and quoted the group’s own description of itself. I don’t see how MoorNam’s comment and the post are in collision on “the truth.”
This could possibly be somewhat accurate… which is why alot commenters are confused about why the ad is not so effective or meaningful (contrary to Kush’s comments, I see alot of questioning in your comments, and not a pc fashionable blind agreement). I don’t believe that an organization for such an important cause should be so careless in the delivery of some of their material, as Moor pointed out… which makes me suspicious about how much work they are actually doing. I didn’t do any research myself, so I’ll reserve full judgement for now, but in the meantime, I am curious and suspicious. It could be a case of bad marketing.
Moor, how did you deduce 20% for education? Is it possible that some of the salary/expense is for internal marketing/advertising execs, which is really an education function in the not-for-profit sector; thus, if this were true, there is more than 20% going to education. I don’t see where the 20% is coming from in this arrangement:
Added thought: It would be a great idea to provide links to any facts presented, so others can verify or for their own interest.
Kush etc,
Thanks for the compliment. But accusing SM of shortchanging facts is harsh. SM is providing an excellent forum for the facts to come out. SM’ers, however, need to go beyond the chewing-gum posts and superficial analysis and dig deeper into issues, especially serious issues like this one.
Ang,
Here’s the 2005 Annual report. See for yourself.
M. Nam
“Kush – aren’t you being a bit unfair?”
Maybe I am. I being too severe. I never even questioned Abhi and his premise . We all always encourage differing opinions. Last night, I had healthy, spirited discussion with a Calvinist friend in my office but we laid down some facts and then we disagreed on some points. We all love diversity of ideas etc. Many commentors here clearly stated that Canadian tax payer money is not being used, and the whole campaign is educational – they all spoke with authority and knowledge.
Even Ivy League, private schools do not have 80% overheards, what to talk of 80% in salaries.
However, if Eofia is willing to pay my 1 day’s salary, I can show that there are first-order flaws in people’s comments and post very often. That is all OK and dandy so long we all are aware of it.
It goes back to Gandhi on SM being discussed with Richard Grenier as a historian source, and many, many more. More importantly, I am not on any watch either. You may continue…….Again, please read Moynihan’s quote.
Tata, guys. I have two NSF proposals due in a week. They pay my bills and food……………….love, kisses, hugs. I am signing off……..Please, continue. Sorry, to disturb.
and as soon as you want to pay the respective salaries of the bloggers who do this in their precious free time, we can potentially expect less “chewing gum” and more “hard-hitting” journalism. you know. the kind journalists get PAID for. does your argument still seem so clever?
this is a blog maintained by volunteers– if you want hard-core analysis or investigative reporting, read the economist or the BBC. of course, this entire kerfuffle is ridiculous when one remembers the following:
1) this blog is hardly riddled with inaccuracies or lies
2) the POINT the post in question was whether or not we thought the ads were risque like abhi did, or not.
honestly, i don’t know what troll-virus has crawled up the rectum of a normally kind, fair commenter but are people forgetting that this is just a blog? does instapundit write original content or does he highlight items and provide interesting links? at least this blog writes more than that hallowed blogger does. readjust your expectations, please. your unreasonable demands are showing.
Impressive analysis, Moornam. The transgressive aspect of the ads is a red herring (I mean the first image with a geeky guy with a jimmyhat in his mouth is more comical tahn erotic) –I find it hard to believe that these artfully done shots would inspire safe sex. I am equally scared for my unborn children when sex education is handled by fire and brimstone conservatives or reckless libertines. Whatta post to end with…gotta go home and baste my masala cornish hens for turkey day.
From my reading, Thailand seems to a success story on the international front against HIV. And they did it by public officals acting more boldly than these ads –Mandatory media educational spots, training of sex workers, widespread condom distribution from street corners to tollbooths, destigmyfing HIV+ positive individuals, and the highest public officials speaking frankly about the subject.
I wouldnt discount these people as “trouble” just based on their balance sheet. If the Canadian govt. is paying most of the funds and if they are an accredited NGO in Canada than the govt. must have a guideline for the overhead ratio that an NGO is allowed to have. If this NGO is helping any people, the money shouldnt be an issue.
In anycase the posters were racy and I agree with Abhi on them.
ok, i took the bait. i read at the annual report moornam posted, and also visited the organization’s website.
the evidence to support moornam’s critique is exactly zero.
so: desis, PLEASE!
so the bulk of their expenses goes to salaries? well, the services they offer include workshops, personal case management for people with hiv, anonymous confidential testing. in all of these cases, salaries would be by far the biggest cost.
so they get a lot (less than the purported 80%, by the way) of their money from government agencies (federal, ontario and toronto)? well, how does that make them different from other social service ngos in canada – or in the u.s. for that matter? if they do awareness workshops and hiv testing and personal counseling and case management, what the hell is wrong with getting public funds? i note that they also get money from private sources and individual donors. normal stuff.
so their command of the language is poor? the “before your period” item is awkwardly phrased, but read the answer and it is totally obvious that they are referring to the days of the menstrual cycle just prior to the period. they also talk about “during your period” in the same breath. for you to insinuate that they are advocating pre-teen sex is ridiculous. desi, please!
other than that there’s some typical ngo jargon that you can find in non-profits of all types. it’s jargon but no different from business lingo.
by the way, the word “equity” has other meanings than the wall street meaning. meanings that predate the establishment of wall street, i might add.
anyone still wondering, just check the report and the site and tell me if you find anything different.
i’m out.
peace!
How are salaries, etc, not part of their educational or “awareness” mission, if, for example, the salaries and costs are paid to educators and/or for p.r. expenses in their ad campaigns? (Their staff seems to have a couple of “outreach coordinators,” a couple of “media coordinators” — these all seem in accordance with an educational mission.)
It is not as if this is a direct aid organization, where money intended for the needy is siphoned off into administrative costs. Is it?
Moreover, they have a staff, it seems, of 8 people. That means, on average, they get around $27,000 each in “salary/benefits/training.” (That’s roughly less than $23,000 U.S.). It doesn’t seem exorbitant, on the face of it.
I’m reserving judgment on the ads themselves.
siddhartha m,
Way to break it down brother. The finances of the organization were obviously something I had neither the time nor the interest to pursue (nor do I believe Moornam was implying that I should have). Beofore jumping on Moornam’s analysis bandwagon though let’s keep in mind that he is what I label an extreme Libertarian. 🙂 I think he would be the first to agree that this fact colors his analysis on a lot of issues. Down with the government and all social programs!
Let’s keep in mind that though bloggers aspire to provide the best post possible they can’t cover every angle and every detail. That is why in fact blogs are successful. We count on smart readers to turn our “chewing gum” into chewing gum with flavor crystals by means of citing further references and providing counter arguments. The best posts can be considered the best because they include substantive discussion afterword.
Oi Gevalt! This has to do with Grenier? I once wrote a post on squat toilets where I said the following:
Kush objected to this because the quote was sourced to an article where Grenier quoted Gandhi. However, Kush did not dispute the quote itself and I provided four other references to the same point. Nor did I rely upon Grenier’s judgement in any way, I simply used him to provide a quote from Gandhi’s own mouth.
From this, Kush gets “facts are the first casualty”?
Sheesh.
Good lord, y’all desis talk a lot during sex. 😀
I never agreed with MNam’s economic points…Our govts’ spend monies on everyting from infrastructure, defense, education and pumpkin eating contests and puppet shows. It is futile to call out one organization over another. Misses the big picture. Beside I’m not a libertarian.
But the point remains: the images and mission of the org I find to be schizophrenic. It’s the prospect of success of the campaign as compared to others that I think should be the salient issue. Also, the latest issue of India Abroad features a free screening of My brother, Nikhil by some local queer org, also says there will free HIV and syphylis testing after the screening. I call that a great date nite, free, educational, and safe. See you all there.
Ha! Ha ha ha. Ok that was funny.
Siddharatha M,
Did you get your Accounting degree from IIPM?
“Salaries” in a balance-sheet means one and only thing: the pay that’s given to the organisation’s employees. Everything else is listed under the appropriate title under expenses.
They have 80% overhead. There are no ifs, ands or buts about it.
The issue is that they are more accountable for results, to taxpayers.
Again – does it make sense to ask a woman whether it’s ok to have sex between periods? Even a village idiot would know the answer.
So now we have two options: Either they promote pre-puberty sex for girls, or they are complete idiots. Take your pick.
That’s different – I have no issue with the question.
Even the name of the organisation causes confusion: They call themselves Alliance for South Asian AIDS Prevention… but they identify their target audience as those who already have HIV/AIDS!! Well, duh. The person’s already got it – what are you going to prevent?
What’s their only onsite service? Anonymous testing. Well duuuh. The person’s already got it. What are you testing him/her for?
Their only “service” seems to be their website, which has links to a host of AIDS sites providing services. And every now and then they host movies like “Monsoon Wedding” and “Kuch Kuch Hota Hai”. A quarter of million dollars for this? Well, Kuch to Hai, is all I can say.
M. Nam
Moornam said
Hey man – that was rude. Siddharth’s statement is valid – the salaries are the biggest expense for an organization that is a community services provider. There’s no product being produced, they’re not collecting revenues for rendered services – so it is unrealistic to estimate ROI in $’s.
On another note, the math posted by toomuchtime is relevant. The Npo rank and file actually live very close to the poverty line – and this isnt fair for you to insinuate greed on their end, when their personal commitment is all that sustains grassroot movements (presumably) such as these
On the flip side, npo’s still need to have metrics linked to their mission statement and your concerns are valid – their value-add, as viewed on their web site is weak. That said, self-promotion is an essential part of the organization’s leadership, as is funds generation. The lack of the chair’s ability to deliver on either raises questions on his/her competence. I’ll readily poke that hornet’s nest.
Enough of the conjectures – let’s wait for Special Agent Ang to return with the scoop.
A couple comments from a gay desi in Toronto:
1) On the posters’ inappropriateness, a little bit of context: as others have pointed out, you can only really find these particular ones on campuses/sexual awareness centres (and queer brown events, of course), where they’re not likely to cause much scandal.
Beyond that, here’s some posters from a campaign from ACT (the “main” AIDS/HIV organization in the city). Almost as risque as the ASAAP ones, but these in fact posted up in Bloor/Yonge station a while back (on the Bloor-Danforth level at least), which is one of the busiest if not the busiest subway station in the city.
After seeing that, a couple of not-quite revealing photos of brown people getting all touchy-feely posted in the campus sexual health office seem pretty inconsiquential.
2) To build on comment 63 by Ennis, which I totally agree with: Not only do idealized sexual images appeal to the types of people outside of the pictured demographic, but there are older “uncle” or “auntie” types who would relate to the posters for other reasons.
What I mean is that there are plenty middle-aged, married, seemingly conservative brown fellas, who, if discussing these posters in public, or around family, or whatever, will say, “Oh, these are weddy, weddy bad! Those sick perwerrrts are trying subwert morality with this filthy pornography! And they do it in public, the nerwe of these people!”
But the instant their wives, kids, family, pandits, priests, etc. aren’t looking, they’re off taking part in gay brown threesomes.
I’ve encountered a lot of these types in this city, and I think there’s a possibility that this campaign can appeal to them as much as it does liberated uni students, and besides, these folks need it more.
3) As for the fact that there are only brown people in the ads, as some comments have pointed out, this is more transgressive. Especially with the same-sex pics, seeing as there’s quite a few brown people who like to think that queerness is a Western “disease.”
Also, there are a couple of brown guys who sleep with guys who think that sleeping with other brown guys is somehow safer. It’s an incredibly dangerous and ignorant belief, but it exists, so an ad that kind of says, “Hey, if you’re screwing a guy named Raj, you need to use a rubber anyways,” is useful in that respect.
Lastly, and this is anecdotal, it’s probably a little related to the “sex sells” concept. In my experience, a lot of queer brown guys seem to prefer other brown (or Latin, Middle-Eastern or Southern European) guys to “white” or black or yellow guys.
Now as I said, totally anecdotal, as far as I know, there could be a whole world out there I don’t know about of brown dudes who want nothing better than a smooth blond guy with a small nose.
(And admittedly, that doesn’t explain the lesbian and bisexual posters, but I think if you combine it with political correctness concerns, it could.)
All that said, I can’t say I’m the biggest supporter of Asaap. Frankly, Besharam is a disaster, and their reaction to the whole Fashion Cares brouhaha was both silly and embarrassing.
(Apologies for any other commenters’ points I may have repeated, and for any typos I might have made.)
moornam,
for your information hiv/aids spreads by infection. that is, someone who is infected with it may spread it to someone who does not. consequently, helping people to determine whether they are infected or not is an integral part of preventing the spread.
got it?
thanks.
as for the rest of your points – whatever.
peace
This is true for desis gay and straight. It is quite common for a partner to assume that the guy is from a “good” family and therefore unlikely to have dipped his quill in a high-risk inkpot.
Back in the 90s I know a couple of “bi” desis in New York who contracted HIV. They worked in investment banks and came from “good” families in Delhi and Mumbai.
One was being pressured to get married. Very tragic.
Among 2gens you’d be surprised how many hushed up abortions 16 year olds are having these days. (If you have a gynecologist relative in the family who works in a community with a large number of desis, he/she will confirm.)
We all know how one can know everything imaginable about STDs and still do stupid things under emotional coercion or just out of laziness or stupidity. So in that sense I’m glad these folks exist.