Am I becoming a prude?

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Over the tip line we got word from runyolarun about an organization up in Toronto that is promoting itself with a new set of agency posters:

“The Alliance for South Asian AIDS Prevention is a community-based, non-profit, charitable organization committed to providing health promotion, support, education and advocacy in a non-discriminatory manner for those who identify as South Asian living with and affected by HIV/AIDS.”

ASAAP is a Toronto based AIDS service organization. It was founded in 1989 as a result of the voluntary efforts of members of Khush (a social group for South Asian gays and lesbians that has since closed down), in a community response to a request for support for a South Asian couple infected with HIV/AIDS who died in isolation, unable to access services in their own language. Our catchment area is greater Toronto and all the surrounding suburbs/towns. Our services include preventative education, support to South Asians infected with and affected by HIV/AIDS, outreach, and advocacy. Services are available in Tamil, Hindi, Urdu, Punjabi, Gujarati, and Bengali. You may need to call ahead to arrange assistance in South Asian languages.

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p>Seems like they do great work. I realize that I am about to possibly get myself labeled as a prude with the following comments (which I assure you is not true), but I’m just not that into their new posters. In my opinion AIDS education has always been difficult because too many people continue to associate AIDS with homosexuality or otherwise “deviant” behavior. In truth, as we all know, AIDS can affect anyone, and an important part in trying to educate people about the disease should be to reach out to populations who think they are above risk. With that in mind I feel like these posters are a bit too racy. I can’t help but feel that many people will think, “Oh, I’m not like the people in those posters (even the one of the straight couple). This doesn’t concern me.” To be specific, the first poster, which seems to be that of an orgy, has several buzz words on it which include “Slip n’ Slide,” and the poster of the Lesbian couple includes the single word, “fist.” Are orgies popular in South Asian communities in Canada (if so I am leaving Jesusland tomorrow)? Also was it necessary to use a clichéd Come/Cum pun on the poster of the straight couple? Am I just getting old? Do most of you like these posters?

107 thoughts on “Am I becoming a prude?”

  4. Whoa, these posters are really in your face. I don’t know if the message is really effective though. The images are startling and you aren’t a prude for feeling the posters are a “bit racy”. I think they’re not only just a bit too racy but also pornographic. I wouldn’t enjoy seeing one of those on a bus or in a community service commercial. I don’t know if people would actually take the message to heart. What kind of message would get across though? What images could be used to send such a message? Maybe if the words used in the poster were different. Instead of just encouraging the use of condoms, encouraging people to go out and get tested?

  5. I’m 23 and find the posters distasteful. I already know what all those words mean; I don’t need a poster to remind me what happens in certain peoples’ bedrooms for cripe’s sake. I would definitely be concerned about children possibly seeing these on buses, subways, community centers, etc.

  6. I don’t think you are a prude. And i totally agree with Manpriya. AIDS awareness shouldn’t be done by porn. Let’s face it, we want everyday uncles and aunties to know what AIDS is and how it can effect them too, do our everyday uncles and aunties indulge in such extracurircular acitivities? Let’s be realistic.

  7. I dunno. If suppose if I had really little kids I might be annoyed to see posters like this like, in the mall or something. Of course, I could just act like my parents, ignore them and pretend they are not there. “What posters? What posters are you talking about? I don’t see posters? You are hallucinating!”

    *I kid, I kid, the parents are cool

    **I’m a little with abhi on this, but I’ve had old fart-ness taking over my life since I was about 25, so my opinion doesn’t count in this arena. My old-fartness comes from living in a co-ed fraternity (frasorority? sofraternity?) during med school. I’m not a prude, but if I had, like, no sleep for the past four days because of night calls, I just want the stupid couple next door to shut up so I can sleep.

    **Okay, what was the topic of this post again? Oh, yeah. Is there any evidence posters like this actually work better than less provocative posters? Just curious.

  8. I think the posters are disrespectful to people with AIDS and HIV. For crying out loud, they only reinforce negative stereotypes of people with AIDS.

    The posters make me wonder: do they really want to help people suffering with AIDS and HIV?

  9. That’s a good point runnerwallah. If they want everyone to be careful, then they should have a campaign that stresses you don’t know who your parter has been with – that’s the real issue. You just don’t know. So, you have to be careful, whether you think these posters represent you and your lifestyle, or not.

  10. MD- dude, I am so with you on the oldfartness…3 months with a potluck white apartment-mate with no shame about making noises during sex/running around giggling in the living room half naked with her boytoy of the month has done the same to me…my lease ends in Jan. thank God (if there is one).

    I don’t care what people do as long as it isn’t right in my face (i.e. these posters)

  11. So that’s what they are. These posters are outside of the LGBTQ (Lesbian-Gay-Bisexual-Transgendered-Queer, for those who don’t know) office at my school. This office is located in front of a classroom where two of my classes are held.

    Call me a prude but I can never work up the courage to stop and observe a poster that clearly depicts two brown-skinned lesbians standing next to a list of sexual innuendo.

    One side of me thinks “Yikes!” The other applauds my community for being so forward-thinking and in tune with the realities and situations that we young brown things are faced with.

  12. Don’t mean to double post but I will also be on the lookout for these posters anywhere BESIDES a school campus. I agree that it would be pretty distasteful…I could see it almost having a negative effect on the older generation. I haven’t seen this on the subway or anywhere really public. In fact, its only at school that I’ve seen it. U of T is really supportive of LGBTQ awareness.

  13. I’m confused too by the message the poster is sending. The pics channel perfume/couture ads to me. And while I do appreciate how progressive the movement is, this might alienate part of the mainstream public that needs educating. (Going back and reading again…Um..Yeah, Abhi. Exactly what you said.)

    My (admittedly very Midwestern) brain sees this as promoting sexual activity itself, more so than it promotes SAFEness, and that’s a good way to get attention but I don’t know if it’s the best way to spread what is ultimately a public health message. I don’t notice the condom at first; all I see is the gorgeous naked people getting it on.

    And furthermore, these ads are only showing me that condoms EXIST. Ok, condoms are everywhere, on TV, on the radio, in magazines, just…everywhere. Clearly though, it’s not enough to just have it out there, and that’s all these ads are doing. There’s no PUNCH to the ad (besides the gorgeous naked folks) that would actually convince someone who doesn’t already practice safe sex, to start now. WHY is it important to use a condom? Who cares?

    There’s a way to spread the message without totally de-sexualizing it though. A few years ago, for the first national “get tested” day MTV ran these great ads that featured a couple talking about getting serious, then agreeing to go get tested. I thought those were phenomenal…because they were realistic. They showed sexually active teenagers having awkward conversations, without glamorizing it, or being too preachy. It was something people could actually relate to. And they really brought home the point too, that your partner could be infected and no one is the wiser.

  14. I don’t all about this prude-shude yaar, but there’s a guy in the first poster who has a condom in his mouth and a far-away look in his eye that has me in stitches.

  16. call me superficial, but i’m digging how beautiful all those desi boys and girls are. yum yum!

    as for the topic at hand, strikes me that a) it’s canada, not the u.s., so we can expect people to be less constipated about erotic imagery in public (the same would be true for europe – ever seen the ads on billboards and bus shelters in paris?) and b) i note anupa’s point about them being on campus. perhaps others in the toronto posse can tell us where else they spot them, if anywhere.

    if it’s aimed primarily at the student demographic with targeted locations i say go for it.

    peace

  17. I wouldn’t enjoy seeing one of those on a bus or in a community service commercial.
    I would definitely be concerned about children possibly seeing these on buses, subways, community centers, etc.
    …if I had really little kids I might be annoyed to see posters like this like, in the mall or something.

    Just to let you know, these posters, as far as I’m aware, are not being used on billboards, on buses or subway stations, etc. here in Toronto. The posters are available for people and organizations to request.

    I’m the tipster that sent the e-mail (or one of them, if you had others), and I myself (if I recall correctly) mentioned the posters as being quite racey in the original message.

    I think what’s positive about the posters is that its ordinary brown folk being unapologetically sexual. They are brown, the are sexual, they use condoms. Good.

    The posters make me wonder: do they _really_ want to help people suffering with AIDS and HIV?

    Yes. Absolutely. Also, these posters aren’t the definitive statement regarding AIDS awareness and responsibility. They’re asking people to use condoms without a gloom and doom message about sex and sexuality.

    I, personally, as a self-identifying quasi prude, like what they contribute to the discourse. Its sex-positive, queer-positive and disrupts the idea that brown men and women are either tame, sexless and desire-less, or exoticized partners for neo-colonial sexual tourists. Being brown and being sexual can be done simultaneously.

    Aunties and uncles of the (stereo)typical sort, would not respond to these posters in a productive way. Duh. But theyÂ’re not depicted in the posters, and they donÂ’t seem to be the target audience. TheyÂ’re young south asian people…and theyÂ’re having sex with condoms. Fantastic.

    cheers, ryr

  18. Don’t mean to double post but I will also be on the lookout for these posters anywhere BESIDES a school campus.

    ditto. I’ve seen them on two campuses in Toronto. Sorry Anupa, I didn’t see this post earlier. Also…I entered the wrong website address for myself. oops. I’m trying to finish and evil research paper of death and my brain is increasingly sieve-like. Forgive me.

  19. I think these posters are useful and get your attention. They have words and shows things that most of us would never dream of talking to our parents about. It shows that when you believe that there is no where in the Indian community where you could turn to, that would understand your sexual behavior, especially for us second generation folk, you can turn to this organization. Because they get it.

  20. .Are orgies popular in South Asian communities in Canada (if so I am leaving Jesusland tomorrow)?

    are you serious? joking? what’s the frequency of orgy exp. around here? i don’t know many ppl who’ve done the orgy thing, though the frequency does go up with my gay male friends.

    MD- dude, I am so with you on the oldfartness…3 months with a potluck white apartment-mate with no shame about making noises during sex/running around giggling in the living room half naked with her boytoy of the month has done the same to me…my lease ends in Jan. thank God (if there is one).

    what does the “white” part have to do with it? you trying to imply that white people (the implication here is female) are more sexually liberated* than browns? well, probably true, on average, but it sure is clear around here sometimes that PC-sensitivity is a one way street. i wouldn’t be such an priggish asshole about it, but this isn’t the first time i’ve noticed this tendency, you know, “if itz white, stereotyping iz all right.”

    • defined as the # of different sex partners per 1 year period


  21. ahr… you took my tax dollars and did this!
    the end is nigh – you NDP dillweeds – the elections are coming (and that’s not me speaking engrish)
    by this time next year, all you’ll be getting with the govt dole are prophylactics lined with sand. AhA!

  22. I haven’t seen these yet, but I like them. They definitely are more risque (Canadians aren’t THAT liberal) but it’s an effective way to send the message to brown kids, expecially considering the lack of/non-existent sex discussion at home… it acknowledges that sex occurs and goes from there. They should put these in high schools.

    I, personally, as a self-identifying quasi prude, like what they contribute to the discourse. Its sex-positive, queer-positive and disrupts the idea that brown men and women are either tame, sexless and desire-less, or exoticized partners for neo-colonial sexual tourists. Being brown and being sexual can be done simultaneously.

    word

    and dhaavak, election or no election, it’s still gonna be a minority liberal govt for the next few years at least, yay.

  23. I haven’t seen these yet, but I like them. They definitely are more risque (Canadians aren’t THAT liberal) but it’s an effective way to send the message to brown kids, expecially considering the lack of/non-existent sex discussion at home… it acknowledges that sex occurs and goes from there. They should put these in high schools.
    I, personally, as a self-identifying quasi prude, like what they contribute to the discourse. Its sex-positive, queer-positive and disrupts the idea that brown men and women are either tame, sexless and desire-less, or exoticized partners for neo-colonial sexual tourists. Being brown and being sexual can be done simultaneously.
    word
    and dhaavak, election or no election, it’s still gonna be a minority liberal govt for the next few years at least, yay.


    ok… guys… the casual promiscuity indicates that the message is directed to an at-high-risk constituency – not quite the average kid out there – brown or otherwise – i’m definitely not quite reading the wind-beneath-my-wings message here that you are – i look at it and i see and smell rancid, old make-up and waste. no guys – i’m definitely the prude – even my gay acquaintances are monogamous
    and ananthan – i love paul like you wont believe – but he’s getting bogged down – time for new.

  24. Canadians aren’t THAT liberal

    but they are cold. mebee orgies are a way to heat things up. but anyway, the first pictures looks like a bisexual porn image (brownized) that i just got through my spam filter today (well, the expressions aren’t as gleeful in that poster).

  25. just so my point comes through – i agree that it is important to reach out to the highly vulnerable constituency – just not sure whether this was the best use of money – images like these are likely to leave little selvan more than a little confused – no? i am sure the ads are impactful – but a more appropriate target audience might have been the sexually illiterate and vulnerable non anglophone demographic,

  27. Yeah, you’re probably right dhaavak. I got excited (no, not like that) seeing a sex-ed campaign targeting south asians, never seen it before.

    Some sort of targeted education needs to be done for Selvan though. There’s a lot of silly shit happening out of pure ignorance.

  28. I’m part of Avi’s “We”. 😉

    There’s nothing wrong with “becoming” or even already being a prude, as long as you’re not a jerk about it, lording your superior moral code over those who don’t conform to your standards.

    I’m a prude when I see little girls who have become victim to Britney &%$&+?%#$@ Federline’s slutification wave. No seven-year old needs to be in a frayed micro mini, platform sandals and a “hottie” tee. But these posters? Didn’t even raise an eyebrow.

    Note to self: must do as my mother did and raise happy, gay-positive children in San Francisco with lots of sweetheart “Uncles”.

    Look, the bottom line is, it got attention and it got us talking. I’m curious– how many of the people here are Gay/Lesbian/Bi-/Transgendered/Questioning? I’d want to hear what THEY think. For every person who commented on “Abhi’s side” on this post, there is someone BROWN who does these things, whether we are aware of it or not. IMO, It’s not porn. Would that porn were this tame…I see racier images in magazines, and before someone retorts with, “but are they BROWN mags???”, who fucking cares? Is that all or even a majority of what you read? BROWN glossies? We read everything, Cosmo and Vogue included. There are parts of us which are unique, which want a blog like this, but then there are other aspects of us which are no different from everyone else. Like we’re somehow sexually different because we’re south asian? Desi, please. It’s reality.

  29. ok, ok, itz not porn.

    but speaking of transgressive, howz come there isn’t any brown on white and brown and black and brown on yellow action? if we want to be realistic & push the envelope and get ppl’s attention. seems like the sexually avante guarde set would be a little more progressive in terms of this sort of thing….

  32. We should not have gay Indians. Indian men cannot be gay

    you know, some of my gay friends who travel to india say there are lots of closeted dudes in bangalore. they tell me it isn’t too hard to pick up dudes cruising (or hanging out on a park bench and shit).

  33. “We’re having a population crisis; we could use a few homos in India right now.”

  34. Regarding the comment about the lack of interracial canoodling depicted in these posters, I think the point here is to show that some desis out there do these things with each other too (rather than just with people of a different ethnic background).

    Obviously it’s not like “everyone” is involved in such activities, but I’m pretty sure it does happen on the wilder shores of desidom, especially amongst those who like to push the boundaries and get a kick out of deliberately being “unconventional” in their, er, romantic activities.

    And yes these posters definitely would reinforce the paranoia about the extracurricular activities of the 2nd-Generation that many Uncles and Aunties already have (“This is what happens when you let them live away from home/if you don’t get them married off as soon as possible/etc etc”), but as has already been mentioned, the posters aren’t aimed at the parents.

  35. but as has already been mentioned, the posters aren’t aimed at the parents.

    Jeez – if they were it would be even worse, what a nasty thought.

    Anyway, Abhi, dont feel like a prude just because of these pictures, they are ‘pushing the boundaries’ and ‘exploring the taboo’s’ or something like that. This is sleazy but at the same time prudish – switch on Zee Music and watch the latest Bollywood item number with oiled men gyrating around the latest bimbo in a thong and bra wiggling her boobs into the camera as the men dance around her crotch and thighs and there are close ups of her ass and everything else – I am being serious – this is no worse than that kind of vulgar trash.

    Plus, to test your prudery, just use the google engine and you can find websites of full on hard core desi porn including lots of American, British and Canadian Desi girls doing all the things mentioned above, all for $14.99 a month.

    Suddenly, the ads seem quite tame, no?

  36. I dont understand in the lesbian advert why those sweet lovely desi girls getting naked together would need protection and condoms.

    I suppose they didnt want the dykes to feel left out.

  37. transgressive: brown people have sex with each other, and it’s not limited to straight sex! alert alert alert.

    these posters are fab. hot brown people gettin’ down with each other, for each other… i love that. no problems with that.

  39. zfr.: if i had a meetup at busboys and poets, would you be interested?

    we’ve never had a dc meetup b/c aside from timepass, i don’t know of any other desis who mutiny here…our unbwoggable friend kenyandesi lives in baltimore, i think.

    (helpful hint from she who is not heloise: this is the point where lurkers who also call chocolate city home comment and i am surprised by how many of you there are…or not.)

  40. I know for a fact that there are no gays in India. This is a Western conspiracy to malign our wery great nation.

    No gays ? Hell, nobody indulges in any nookie before marriage too. Not one person, out of a population of over 1 billion. Some people don’t have s-e-x after they get married either, but that’s a whole different issue…..

    But hey — we’re talking about desis out here in the Vest. As any Auntie will tell you, the vast majority of “kids” here are good little boys and girls and have squeaky-clean arranged marriages. No dirty stuff until then, even if they’re 30 years old and unmarried. Honestly. It’s only a handful of corrupted, over-Vesternised young Indian men and women who indulge in the filthy habits depicted in those posters (I blame the British for importing those disgusting ideas into Indian society, by the way), and it’s because they’ve been badly brought up by their parents and think that they are white.

  42. But hey — we’re talking about desis out here in the Vest. As any Auntie will tell you, the vast majority of “kids” here are good little boys and girls and have squeaky-clean arranged marriages. No dirty stuff until then, even if they’re 30 years old and unmarried. Honestly. It’s only a handful of corrupted, over-Vesternised young Indian men and women who indulge in the filthy habits depicted in those posters (I blame the British for importing those disgusting ideas into Indian society, by the way), and it’s because they’ve been badly brought up by their parents and think that they are white.

    ” So that is to be why you should not be letting your Pinky/rinky/Dinky be good friends with white children in kindergarten”, finishes Aunty

  43. Oh, I see, these are for colleges and not general educational fare.

    I wonder if ads like this are to get attention because young people have become complacent? In college in the 80s I remember having my dorm counselor giving us a talk on safe sex and there were all these matter of fact, neatly typed up, clinical information sheets in the campus bathrooms and dorms. Scared the pants off me (oh wait, maybe that’s not the best phrase to use) at the time. We didn’t know as much about AIDS/HIV then and HAART and other therapies weren’t around – which apparently have also made some young people today complacent in thinking that there are ‘cures’. Those little no nonsense fact sheets seemed to make quite an impression on me at the time. I wonder if people are too blase these days?

    I don’t find the photos particularly creative, aesthetically, but I am probably in the minority here. They are simply explicit, which is nothing in this day and age. And no, I’m not saying what you think I’m saying. The expressions on the faces made me laugh, as well. Sorry, but some of the models look utterly ridiculous. I agree the gentleman in the first photo gazing off into the distance seems, well, um, what is he doing, exactly?

    Pablo, transmission of HIV/AIDS during lesbian sex is very difficult, probably infintesimal, but again, you don’t know the habits of these women, if they’re drug users, who they’ve been with, and it’s not impossible according the literature. At least, the last time I looked into it, which was a few years ago and based on case reports which we have no way of verifying. Anyway, there are other things you can transmit beside HIV/AIDS. Apparently the rates of oral cancer are going up, probably related to HPV transmission during oral sex. Although, there is supposed to be a new HPV vaccine for cervical cancer, isn’t there? Hmmm, I need to catch up on my general medical reading. It’s seriously been lagging. I wonder why?

  44. Oh, to clarify my last comment: I said vaccine for cervical cancer and what I meant was an HPV vaccine and cervical cancers can be related to HPV.

    The one case report I read a few years ago was about two gay men, not lesbians, and a supposed transmission through kissing – don’t remember the source, and of course, there is no way to verify such information. So, better to read the CDC website and other educational fare (like the above posters) than my blog comments….

  45. MD

    Thanks. I’m still trying to work out what lesbian contortion or indulgence would require said protection.

    But without getting vulgar, I have to say that the thought of using ‘protection’ during oral sex so defeats the purpose and delight of such play that it seems utterly bizarre and pointless. Unless that was a plastic kink of some kind.

    Personally, I just think that the producers of the posters wanted to stick some horny looking brown sappho’s in there.

  46. i think it’s nice to see some sexy brown bodies without having to pay that $14.99.

    it’s great to make clear that sex is for everyone (whether they choose to avail of it or not) and sexual health is for everyone too.

    it’s great to give some positive reinforcement and at the same time health education to any young desis who might feel alienated by the disapproving climate in their family or social circles.

    it seems obvious that those are the target audience here. those who are already sexually active and aren’t getting the kind of responsible sex-positive support that would lead them to be healthy about it.

    by what the toronto posse have indicated it seems that these are only on campus, i.e. an effort has been made to shelter the broader population — especially children — from what might not be appropriate.

    as long as the little ones are protected, it’s all good. adult prudes will just have to deal, just like adult freaks have to deal with all the repressed messages out there.

    hey anna, i was born and spent years 0-6 in the district, does that count? (of course that was before the internets.) north carolina avenue represent!

    peace

  47. I agree with you and my thoughts aren’t being driven by conservatism. It isn’t the racy bit that bothers me. It looks beautiful and artistic but I’m unsure how far it applies to the South Asian communities and it addresses a small segment of the population, the population that is homosexual and/or indulges in sexual expression of the extreme kind. It does not address the risks faced by average people that have straight sex and that is the danger in the campaign.

    I showed those posters to a gay friend who is Indian and he said it doesn’t really appeal to him and agreed with you. There need to be several posters and they need to address everyone that can be affected by this.

    There is currently a poster campaign in NYC for AIDS in the subways and the couples featured on there are everything from plain boring looking couples to pierced Harley driving folks including homosexual couples and it’s powerful because they all look like everyday people.

  48. Abhi

    I think, these posters are less misplaced than Victoria Secret ads on cnn.com.

    Am not sure why they would be offensive?

    Yes, I do think the squeamishness is worth thinking about. Seriously. If porn is common, racy ads are fine, then whats wrong with these?

    Or there is a different code of conduct for “educational copy?” Now if a blog was written on porn pop ups while getting email(which every kid accesses), then I’d see the relevance…

    Sumita

  49. I notice that nobody’s congratulated me on finding an excuse to sneak in the words “canoodling” and “nookie” on an SM thread…..

    On a slightly more serious note, I agree with Siddhartha’s last message; he’s made some very good and concisely-phrased points. I did, however, consider that the somewhat racy posters will end up getting some members of the target audience even more turned on, and they’ll end up indulging in hanky-panky because of the naughty images popping into their heads…..

    On a marginally less serious note, I guess the public display of those posters (both on SM and in the “real world”), and the fact that one can easily see the faces of the various models depicted, has just answered some questions about why so-and-so’s son hasn’t got married yet “despite already being 25 years old”, along with why “Dr Patel’s daughter Nita — who, frankly, I’ve always felt to be a bad influence on Pinky — has been constantly rejecting the biodata about all those nice boys we’ve been forwarding to her parents”.

    You can also imagine some bored Uncle back in Delhi doing some surfing-shurfing, stumbling upon SM, and calling out “Kiran ? Your cousin Harjinder lives in Toronto, right ? Isn’t this her son Juggi ? Let me expand the images…..Oh my God, YES IT IS !!!“

  50. I don’t find the photos particularly creative, aesthetically, but I am probably in the minority here.

    They’re certainly not expensive glossy PR images, or artistic brilliance…but I don’t think thats to be expected.