Happy Diwali. Besides Hindus, some Sikhs also celebrate this holiday:
 |
| These were for Christmas, but close enough |
Sikhs also celebrate Diwali as the period during which the foundation stone for the Golden Temple was laid during in 1577. Diwali… played an important role in the life of Sri Guru Hargobind Ji, the sixth Guru of the Sikhs… Jahangir, the Mughal emperor, arrested Guru Hargobind… later Jehangir relented and let the Guru go. Accompanied by his followers and to the joy of many Sikhs, the Guru returned to Amritsar… The occasion was Diwali and it prompted the followers to celebrate the day with joy and happiness. [Link]
Fall is absolutely my favorite season: Halloween parades, Diwali card parties, Navratri garbas, Eid feasts; a new fashion season, browns and golds and purples and reds which suit the desi palette; a touch of melancholy, a premonition of winter in every breath. It’s a contrasty season, and unlike summer, all your senses are hi-fi.
and happy deepavali for the southies 😉
Happy Diwali to all the Mutineers. Have a peaceful, successful and rewarding year, surrounded by the company of warm-hearted people 😉
Happy Diwali everyone!
Happy Diwali to everyone
Diwali ki Shubhkamna (I hope I phrased it right)
Diwali might just be the oldest festival celebrated by mankind. (or one of the oldest)
We must thank the eternal spirit for all the wealth and health we are provided with.
Don’t forget to get drunk and gamble though.
Maybe someone should send Judge Alito a Diwali gift so he can stop hating on Hindus 😉 Apparently our soon to be Supreme Court Justice believes that preventing heathen Hindoos from building their temples is always okay even if the decision to deny Hindoos their temple is arbitrary, capricious and reeks of d-i-s-c-r-i-m-i-n-a-t-i-o-n.
Thankfully, the mafioso was the sole dissenter here (surprise!) and the majority did the right thing. The whole case is here. For people who care about civil rights, Judge Alito has this to say to us ‘My offer is this: nothing.’ Happpy Diwali 🙂
Happy Diwali to all.
On the subject of non-Hindus and Diwali, see this.
This is slightly off topic, but I am relatively new to NYC, and the readers / posters of this blog seem to know whats what with everything. So does any one know if there are any Diwali Pooja’s in or around the city?
Happy Diwali all. God Bless!
Happy Diwali everyone!!! 🙂
Yes, Manish, I agree… fall is the time of the year filled with both endless opportunity and regrets… and now that it’s colder you can feel it all.
Your poems are wonderful.
Thanks, Andrea.
Jains also celebrate Diwali…
“In Jainism it has special significance, as on this day in 527 BCE (according to Svetambara tradition) that Mahavira gave his last teachings and attained ultimate liberation.”
Happy Diwali!
Let’s not forget Jains are Hindus too. ^^^^
Really? According to whom? Are Sikhs and Buddhists also Hindus?
Happy Diwali! Let’s hope that the new year brings everyone joy, prosperity and happiness.
ennis writes: Are Sikhs and Buddhists also Hindus?
Maybe. Maybe not.
M. Nam
Happy Diwali to all y’all from down South in Texas! I’m gonna stay out of religious debates on this post 🙂
Ofcourse ! We all know Sikhs came from Hindus. It’s a fact that almost every hindu punjabi family gave one son to sikhism. Don’t Hindus go to Gurudwaras? Don’t the Sikhs respect Ram and Krishna? Sikhism Jainism Buddhism all are derivation from Hinduism. Talk to any buddhist scholar they always have the highest respect for Hindu traditions.
i’m going to stay out of the Sikh/Bhuddist/Hindu debate and tell you a little story about a girl on the prowl for sparklers.
in GA you have to be over the age of 18 to buy sparklers [first, WHAT THE JUNK!?!?! it’s a friggin sparkler. second, it’s ridiculous that i had to pull out my ID when i’m 25 and obviously not a teenager. third, this means there are NO fireworks stores.]…i decided this year i wanted to do diwali the right way…so i went on a hunt to every store i could think of that would sell sparklers…finally i FOUND THEM AT A PARTY CITY!! on sale in the check out aisle on the bottom shelf. what a pain!!!
on the bright side i get sparklers! woohoo
happy diwali everyone and pre-Eid Mubarak!
Kash Sethi – you are new to this blog and seem to be a nice guy.
There are few things you stay out on this board: I) do not connect hinduism to any other religion in a historical or judaism-christianity type relationship, you will be badly ambushed. II) never criticize Ayn Rand, III) remember, Gandhi was a facist, IV) Azad Hind soldiers were facist too but not the Pope or Gehlen Org people, V) Muslims are not really Indians, VI) Brahmins are the elite race of the world, VII) Indian soldiers in WW II were mercenaries, and IX) never ever utter a non-PC throught. Grandstand your way through……..sepia mutiny zindabad.
I am just hinting as a friend. Keep this in mind and you do fine.
Kash, none of what you say is evidence that Sikhs are Hindus.
As a people, Sikhs came from Hindu stock, but they also came from Muslim stock as well. Sikhs also respect Ram and Krishna as much as they would any figure from any religion. However, as Sikhs, when we pray, we seek the blessings of God alone (through Guru or directly), not to Ram, Krishna, or anyone else.
To a large degree, to believe what many of the things Hinduism preaches, or to worship in the manner that Hindus do, would violate many basic Sikh tenets.
Kush and thekingsingh, I had no intentions to hurt any other religion’s sentiments. I respect all faiths man, stop assuming what I believe 😐
I don’t beleive Brahmins are the elites. I’m not into the stupid caste system. That was made thousands of years ago for proper systematic functioning of the society. Later, it got curropted by none other than our own ancestors. Hence I don’t like to use those caste-related words.
thekingsingh, relax brotha !!! The fact that every hindu punjabi family donated one son to Sikhism, doesn’t that show you we got common roots? No sikhs came out of Muslims bro. Also when you say muslim you can mean arab/south asian anything. I’m just talking about the South Asian Sikhs, they got common roots with the South Asian Hindus. I hold max. respect for Sikhs and their faith and any good Sikh will hold the max. respect for the Hindu Faith. Please don’t make me assume you’re one of the Khalistanis. We are one, let it be that way please. Hindus go to Gurudwaras quite often, it doesn’t voilate the Hindu faith. By saying that going to a hindu temple would voilate the Sikh faith, you are not making the Gurus proud.
Kush, thanks for the advice bro but I’ll say what I believe. In any case I didn’t/don’t mean any offence to any other faith. All faiths are nice, it’s the seperatist and the extremists that make it seem fuked up.
Happy Diwali, Eid, and Samhain y’all!
Kash,
I am being sarcastic. Say, what you want. I always do.
Kush
Kash, I won’t get into this argument with you.
Hope you’re having a happy Diwali.
Happy Diwali to you too bro.
We the same !
sikhs are not hindus. how many times do we have to repeat this? argh. you be you and let me be me.
while my brothas fight it out ‘bou diwali,ma folks are bombed and reduced to meat balls and bleeding roses on the streets of Delhi and some others in other parts of the world are prosecuted for celebrating ‘divali’.Sometimes, when emotions take control of my thought process,i do sync with Naipaul.
Hmm … so believing that Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism makes one a Khalistani? Well then sign me up!
Of course Sikhs respect Ram, etc. As much as we respect Jesus Christ, the Pope or the founder/leader of any other religion. Doesn’t mean Sikhs believe in these people/deities.
Hindus may culturally go to Gurdwaras, but not religiously. For a Hindu to bow in front of the Guru Granth Sahib and accept the words within would definitely be against his/her faith. Likewise for a Sikh in a Mandir.
Do some research of your own before you educate Sikhs on how we can make our Gurus proud.
Kash Sethi: Happy Diwali of course…and not to be a downer but I do take offense to your comments about Jains being Hindus. There are significant differences between Jainism and Hinduism. Not that I have any disrespect for Hinduism, I just would not think to call myself a Hindu. Also, please research yourself a bit more because Jainism is older than Hinduism. The common misperception about Jainism is that Mahavira founded it during 6th century BC. But he only revived it, there had already been 23 tirthankars before him. So therefore Jainism is not an offshoot of Hinduism…and Jains are not Hindus. However if by Hindu you mean “from Hindustan”, then yes everyone in India is Hindu including Jains. If anything, it would’ve made even more sense to say that Buddhists are Jains as Buddhism is definitley influenced majorly by Jainism.
Diwali Greetings to everyone at Sepia Mutiny ! From Apu, Manjula, and the Nahasapeemapetilon children. And, er, Homer.
Yes, Homer is still with us. A thousand apologies for not updating my blog on SM recently; I have been most busy, what with the recent Diwali celebrations here in Springfield, and of course my mother is also now gracing us with her august presence for a few weeks.
We had a lot of fun celebrating the Festival of Lights in our back garden last night. It seemed as though the entire town had turned up. We even constructed a giant ten-headed replica of Ravana, and burned it in the traditional manner by firing a flaming arrow at it. I am pleased to say that my aim is as good as ever. However, it was a struggle to keep the weapon out of Homer’s hands, as he kept trying to find out if he could hit Ned Flander’s house from here.
There was some minor drama when Chief Wiggum tackled me to the ground and tried to arrest me under the Patriot Act when I set off the fireworks. Apparently he thought I was launching homemade missiles and trying to shoot down airliners passing overhead. Ah, no harm done. Although Chief Wiggum did say that nobody at Springfield Mosque had told him about what happens during Diwali festivities, and that he was therefore going to “have a quiet word with the Imam for not explaining his religion properly.”
Marge looked very fetching in her salwaar kameez, although I have no idea how she managed to reach up so high in order to wrap the dupatta around her hair.
Myself and the regulars from Moe’s spent the early hours of the morning celebrating Diwali in proper desi style by drinking and gambling. So, no change for Homer there, then.
Kash Sethi,
I don’t think it’s appropriate for any of us to try to hijack what was originally a well-meaning, good-natured thread and divert it into a religious argument.
HOWEVER:
Sikhs are definitely not Hindus; you cannot claim otherwise when the Sikh Gurus themselves (all 10 of them) and the fundamental tenets of the faith, especially the scriptures of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, repeatedly emphasised this basic fact. Also, historically a smaller percentage of Muslims did indeed embrace Sikhism.
With all due respect, brother you need to educate yourself a little.
Good places to start are here:
Differences between Sikhism and Hinduism.
Sikhnet (for general historical and religious information about Sikhism, along with an excellent on-line discussion forum).
Sikhs.org (as above, but no discussion forum).
In all my trips to India, I’ve never encountered any Sikhs or Jains trying so hard to alienate themselves from Hindus. It’s only the ones in the west that tend towards groupings.
Please do not give me links, for there are links to prove anything and everything over the internet. Jesus Christ died in India, The Kaba is a Shiv Temple, South Indians should pray Ravana etc etc.. there are links which claim to prove all of the above B.S.
When a Hindu goes to the Gurudwara in India he doesn’t feel much different than going to a Temple. The Sikhs pray with him and they don’t look at him any different either. It’s only abroad that the Sikhs feel the way you guys made me think you feel.
I’m not trying to hijack any other religion or spread Hinduism-related propoganda. As I mentioned before I respect all faiths. But when a faith is derived from another faith, there is nothing wrong in admitting that.
Anyway, when I read someone say “Jainism is older than Hinduism” I lost all interest in trying to debate on this.
I hope you guys had a Happy Diwali.
A more accurate term would be “differentiate”, not “alienate”. In any case, the Sikhs & Jains you may have met back in India were probably just being polite towards you.
Be that as it may, the links I’ve provided you are for the most respected and authenticated Sikh websites in the world. I believe the teachings and information they contain are also in line with established Sikh tenets in these matters.
You may be missing the point or misinterpreting this behaviour. Sikhs don’t act in this manner towards Hindus within gurdwaras because they regard themselves as semi-Hindus themselves — it’s because a fundamental tenet of Sikhism is that a gurdwara should be a place of worship for the whole of mankind, irrespective of the individual’s official religious affiliation, ie. all people are regarded as equal by God, regardless of whether they’re Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims, or anything else. It is an individual’s character, inner qualities/virtues, and actions which are the most important to God, not what religion they may technically follow (although of course an individual’s interpretation of his/her religion may indeed have a substantial impact on his/her behaviour and thinking). The egalitarian behaviour of Sikhs towards members of other faiths when they visit gurdwaras is a reflection of this (and yes Sikhs out here in the West behave this way too).
There is something very wrong indeed when such a statement is an outright lie. Sikhism is not “derived” from Hinduism or indeed from any other religion — no offence, but you appear to be misinformed regarding the actual historical origin of Sikhism. The similarities it may have with some aspects of Hinduism (or any other faiths) is because those aspects are spiritually “true”. The differences are because Sikhism views many other matters as false. It certainly does not mean that Sikhism is derived from Hinduism/Islam/etc and it most definitely does not mean that Sikhism is a “sect” or “branch” of Hinduism either.
since we’re all arguing about religion… has anyone read this article on bbc?
it’s about hindus worshipping baby Jesus on an xmas stamp in the UK.
check it out.
i’m stumped… what made the stamp designer think that this was a good idea?
Kash Sethi:
You say you respect all religions and I’m sure you do. However, your comments say otherwise. The fact that you are not even backing up any one of your statements with concrete facts makes me realize that you honestly have no idea what you are talking about. You can not make statements such as “In all my trips to India, I’ve never encountered any Sikhs or Jains trying so hard to alienate themselves from Hindus. It’s only the ones in the west that tend towards groupings” on first hand experiences only! Have you met all the Sikhs and Jains in India to say such a thing? No you haven’t. Plus, are you trying to say that Sikhs and Jains in India know more than the ones in the West? Just because they live in India does not mean that the followers here in the West know less about their religion. Like I said, research yourself a bit more. Then comments like “Jainism is older than Hinduism” wont seem so absurd to you. End of discussion.
Sorry everyone, I totally did not mean to turn this into a religous debate. I love fall too.
To back up what I say, I’m going to have to type long lectures and refer to links! And this blog is really not meant for that. Only thing I’ll say is that if a person following a certain vast religion A, starts to concentrate only on some practices/ideologies, preaches them to the world adn gets a following going the new religion IS a derived religion from A.
In either case, just because a religion is derived from another doesn’t make it any less. I have the highest respect for some ideologies Sikhism and Jainism concentrate on. And about Jains/Sikhs in India vs abroad, it’s true. I’ve come accross many Sikhs/Jains who just came from India and they never try to “differentiate” themselves. It’s usually in our community in the west when non-white people tend to group.
The only thing I said which made you guys fire posts was meant to pass a message of unity. Why you have to come back with a dissing tone is beyond me.
Anyway, I’m through.
What fall? It’s getting cold up here already 😐
Kash,
You are obviously a well-meaning person and your intentions are good (I’ve never doubted that, right from your first post) but you are still misinformed about Sikhism. Guru Nanak never actually followed “vast religion A”, right from his birth — which caused a huge amount of trauma with his father in particular.
His spiritual awareness was derived from a) his direct awareness of God right from the get-go, and b) that incident when he disappeared into the river for 3 days and experienced the reality of God in a realm he termed “Sachkhand”. The Mool Mantar — subsequently recorded as the very first page of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji — is what he sang to God in order to describe His essence. It was after that incident that Guru Nanak really started spreading his message in earnest — he certainly wasn’t deploying a “pick & choose” strategy of drawing on established Hindu teachings, which is what you appear to be implying.
Anyway, as we both said, this isn’t the thread for theological arguments. I do wish you a very Happy Diwali too — but buddy, listen to what everyone on this thread is telling you – don’t base your knowledge and worldview on distorted information 😉
I guess one lesson to be learned from the Hindu/Sikh/Jain debate above is that Hindus are stubbornly syncretic in their practice of religion. Others are irritated by said syncretism and think it’s a mask for ignorance…
For a Hindu to bow in front of the Guru Granth Sahib and accept the words within would definitely be against his/her faith.
This Hindu sees no contradiction between her faith and bowing in front of the Guru Grant Sahib, as I have done on numerous occassions, with utmost respect. Millions of Sindhi and Punjabi Hindus have a place for Guru Nanakji in their puja altars and would be surprised to hear they’re violating their faith
Khushwant singh in a TV interview recalled an event that happened during the khalistani era. He described conversations with to a gyani who fell in disfavor with bhindrawale torah faction. He described an arguement which broke out over propesed editing of Gurugranth Sahib where the gaol was to removing hindu references, and 4 gyanis told them to keep the ‘jild’ (cover) and let him keep the pages.
Sethi points out there were a significant families in punjab where one boy (usualy the eldest) became a sikh and this tradition was slowing in recent history and it essentialy stopped in the khalistani era. There was a bhand group that used to travel in punjab haryana western up kashmir area and one of the skits they had was about that.
I 2 have family members both men are in their 70’s who who became sikhs as young boys.
So the line in india between hindu,sikh,jain and even buddhism is blurry for many individuals. What it means is basicaly its left upto the individual to make there choices
BTW for a while there were more sikhs outside punjab than in punjab a lot of them mostlikely reverted back to (or got absorbed back) into ‘hindu’ religion.
This is ABSOLUTELY correct. And Sikhs and Hindus routinely intermarried until the Khalistani period–several in my own family.
Sikhs and Muslims? Never. Hindus and Muslims? Heck no.
That alone should tell you something about “liminality”.These days radical Sikhs complain that they are losing population due to “Hinduization” in Punjab.
Sure, anyone can bow in front of the Guru Granth Sahib out of respect .. I know many non-Sikh friends who have done it or whose relatives do it regularly. However, by bowing we are supposed to be accepting all of the teachings in the scripture. If you practice a different faith, then this isn’t possible.
There’s a big difference between respect in a religion and belief in it – I think a lot of you are getting the two confused.
there is nothing “radical” with insisting that your faith is not conflagrated with other faiths.
the case examples you use of hindu families raising one of their sons as a sikh are CASE EXAMPLES of how some people have been introduced to the faith and how different families practice or intermingle attributes of different faiths but are not a reflection on what are the very definitions of the faith.
also, historically, those hindu families chose to raise their child as sikhs in deference and respect to the sikh faith, NOT because the sikh faith is an offspin of hinduism. i could give you links on this, but as i read above, the trend in this comments section is to dismiss all forms of documentation and regarded references and itstead use stories and hearsay as the burden of proof.
happy divali to hindus happy bandhi chor divas to sikhs eid mubarak to muslims
happy happy happy to everyone
“Hindus and Muslims? Heck no.” I know a few cases. One of my 1st cousin brother-in-law’s sister is married to muslim and others through friendship.
Sikh and Hindu Many, many cases. Another 1st cousin’s wife (ny sister-in-law) is a sikh.
How do u make that case?
Thats Partialy true but its a lot more complicated. Consider this however would hindus in that era have considered raising a child as a muslim(even a sufi which many hindus revered). Also Sikhs in general dont have a problem with hindu-sikh wedding but do have a problem with a muslim sikh wedding. The distinctions were essentialy left upto the individual and so was the issue of weather or not a person would call himself a hindu a sikh or both.
No-one is saying that Sikhs are Hindus in the same way that Tiwaris and Sharmas are Hindus. But it is indubitably the case that the boundary between the Hindu and Sikh faiths is not akin to the boundary between orthodox Islam and, say, Hinduism, or between Judaism and Sikhism. This is not a question of good or bad, it’s just that a different kind of boundary is involved. As a secular historical matter, hardly any respectable scholar will disagree that Sikhism is a product of the long encounter between Islam and Hinduism in Punjab; the future historical development of which led to a much greater affinity between Sikhism and Hinduism than between the former and orthodox Islam.
The move toward Sikh “differentialism” is, like the parallel (albeit explicitly political) move toward the two-nation theory, and becomes apparent from the nineteenth century onwards. This non-Hindu non-Sikh certainly agrees that many Sikhs in India also have such a “differentialist” view (they are free to); but I am struck by how inthe UK, USA, and Canada, this is the ONLY view one encounters, almost as if the difference has “hardened” in the diaspora.
Conflagrated means burned, you probably meant conflated.
I know many non-Sikh friends who have done it or whose relatives do it regularly
Do your non-Sikh friends keep pictures of Guru Nanakji in their altars too?? I mean, please! North Indian Hindus have more than mere “respect” for Sikhism.
There’s a big difference between respect in a religion and belief in it – I think a lot of you are getting the two confused.
No the confusion is over what we’re arguing about. You’re arguing about Sikhism. I’m arguing about Hinduism. I’m not saying you are a Hindu as I am (obviously that would be offensive). But your intolerance extends to MY beliefs, and it’s claustrophobic.
also, historically, those hindu families chose to raise their child as sikhs in deference and respect to the sikh faith, NOT because the sikh faith is an offspin of hinduism
Hindus respect Christianity too. Why is there absolutely no Hindu tradition of raising one child as a Christian?
For the record, I’m NOT arguing that Sikhism is an offspin of Hinduism. Just that claims that the Hindu relationship to Sikhism is derived just from respect are mighty ignorant.
I am from North India (my surname should be a dead give away). One of my aunt who used to go Gurudwara very regularly, sometimes daily. My mother sometimes go to gurudwara. None of them claim ownership over Sikhism or anything like that, however in their mind the connection is more etheral. Yes, quite a few would have Guru pictures in their alter. I do not think it is as clinical just respect but then I am not interested in being part of 100 comments to and forth. I agree more GGK on this issue.
Also, as Saheli has pointed out I have seen Jesus picture in Hindu family prayer room.
Maybe, Jai Singh could answer that purely within scholarly context. Wouldn’t you call Sikh-Hinduism relationship more like Judaism-Christainity and historically less complicated than theirs. Personally, I am not religuous and am only interested in your answer from theological viewpoint. I am just responding to second SMR’s response.
As I added one of my sister-in-law is sikh. then I have Chinese too, and perhaps soon Russian.