We introduced Toral to mutineers with a gentle reminder to her that “all glory is fleeting” and my oh my how true it was. On Thursday, October 13, her Apprentice star was extinguished in dramatic fashion after a run of just 4 episodes. While probably not an ideal role model, we can answer Desi media critics and say that this week at least 1 TV show was truly led by a desi characterThis week at least 1 TV show was truly led by a desi character.
The episode’s story arc traced Toral’s fall starting with her perilous escape from last week’s boardroom – something Trump pointed out was her high point in words almost fitting a Greek Oracle – “Enjoy the view, Toral“.
The subsequent verdict from the flock of Cassandras was immediate and fierce –
“Not bringing Toral into the boardroom isn’t loyalty, it’s stupidity”
And in Waiting to Exhale fashion, a caucus was called where her teammates admonished her to step up the plate and run like she hadn’t run before. The die was cast as her teammate’s demands were diametrically opposed to Toral’s master plan –
“…Toral is a friggin goober”“My strategy was really to take an extremely passive approach that would allow each person to implode because I just didn’t think these people would be able to perform in any manner… I’m not completely wrong about that”
But, as they say in war, no plan survives contact with the enemy. And ironically, her teammates employed precisely this strategy against her. Toral’s constant passivity and shirking of responsibility created the essential conflict and thus one of the more entertaining hours of TV in a long time –
“I’m happy to step up … I know you guys are expecting that from me… BUT… “
And so we see her problem stripped to it’s bare, naked, essential glory. With Toral, there’s always a BUT. Always an out. Always some wiggle room. She appears to live in that precious gap between “try” and “do”. At some level, we suppose she was willing to don the ridiculous mascot costume her team had adopted to complete their assigned task. BUT she was rather adamant that The Toral –
“can’t embarrass myself or my family or my employers”
Apparently The Toral has never seen a single episode of RealtyTV before. Or read the fine print on her contract. One of her teammates aptly summarized Toral’s attitude as only the MTV generation could –
“Toral is a friggin goober”
As fate would have it, the girls lost (again), Toral was a focus point for their anger (again), and their camaraderie (again), and she assumed that the real problem lay collectively with everyone else (again) –
“again, my judgement was 100% on target”“they’re so stupid, they have no intelligence, they have no backbone…. they’re going to get a fight”
Watching this delusion in practice vaguely reminded me of a famous quote from Star Trek: TNG — “If there’s nothing wrong with me, maybe there’s something wrong with the Universe”. Of course Trek is, uh, Science Fiction, while Toral presumably lives in NYC. As the space/time continuum continued to warp around itself, Toral played the Religion card –
“I said that I had a personal and spiritual belief about that stuff”
Now, I don’t claim to be an expert on Hinduism in any way (my family is Christian) BUT, a few min of Googling didn’t really turn anything up. Maybe it’s more like one of those family traditions rather than a sect 
. Most likely, it was a feeble attempt to introduce a third rail into the dialog.“…these are not people I’d even hire as my administrative assistant”
Nevertheless, the central issue in the boardroom became whether or not she’d really mentioned this concern to her team. The video record was clear that she hadn’t and the verbal sparing in the boardroom gave very little support to Toral’s version of events.
The Donald did a marvelous job of translating ToralSpeak into English –
Trump: Did you say religion [to your teammates]? Remember you have to tell the truth, we’re talking about religion.Toral: I believe I did
Trump: …’I *believe* i did’ means ‘I didn’t do it’
In possibly the harshest boardroom of the 4 seasons of the Apprentice, Trump bypassed getting the PM’s opinion, avoided frivolous formality and preserved precious commercial airtime by firing Toral directly –
You know why they wanted you to wear the costume? Because they didn’t want you to contribute. They felt you were the weakest person on the team.…I am so disappointed with you Toral, you have the great Wharton education, but you are totally ineffective, you’ve done a terrible job. And Toral, you’re fired.
Go. Out.
Of course, Toral couldn’t go into the night without her Parthian Shot in her taxicab monologue –
“Some people take their personal dignity very seriously. I’m a person of stature and respect. In every day life I don’t think I’d even speak to somebody like Christi or Felecia; these are not people I’d even hire as my administrative assistant.”
Perhaps. Although something tells me that the resumes and applicants aren’t exactly lining up at Toral’s door. On the other hand, maybe Toral will join other ex-Apprentice mates who have turned ignominy on the show into fame outside. As Manish pointed out, the modern world, particularly it’s Desi corner, celebrates those consumed by hubris almost as much as our victors.
“She has the cashflow to keep fresh batteries in her vibrator”
Personally I have not seen The Apprentice nor Toral Mehta (except for what’s on Sepia), but I must say that over the last few days I have been left with the distinct (and unpleasant) aftertaste of gendered criticism of Toral. I am by NO means suggesting that all or even most commenters are doing it, but the sheer vitriol that Toral has evoked (from statements to the effect that she is near her sell-by date, that she at least will have cash for fresh vibrator batteries, that she is a bitch to the nth degree– and that ad infinitum), not to mention that Toral is also held to typify and represent a tendency (for some, desi women in general; for others, various subsets of desi women) has been a revelation.
Hear, hear, Umair.
They’re just like the ‘oral Toral’ comments, totally uncalled for.
right on, umair. right on.
there was indeed a weird and unpleasant energy around here yesterday.
it boils down to the fact that all other things being equal, a female jerk ALWAYS stands out more than a male jerk, because pretty much every culture has it encoded that men should be aggressive and women nurturing.
in effect that creates a “free pass” for people to pile on this toral character, reading into her any number of negative traits that they ascribe to… her? desi women? all women? all desis? everyone?
cultural conversation has always made use of archetypes. and yes, they can be useful. but when you’re dealing with an archetype, you should be aware of its origins and its limitations.
it’s a shame because much of the nastiness came in comments that also contained really sincere points — as usual here, folks are really thinking about things. but the sexist hate, conscious or not, really takes away from the thoughtful stuff. it’s as good a reason as any to make the extra effort to keep it positive.
but it’s good we’re talking about this. big respect to you umair, you’re a great presence around here.
peace
I read a couple of threads on Toral and my first impression was – what’s the fuss about? I haven’t watched the last two seasons of The Apprentice, so wasn’t really following this one either.
Anyways I downloaded episode 4 and see Toral in action. What an arrogant fool she is? All she does is whine and complain and if there wasn’t any element competitive strategy in the campaign, then why doesn’t she bring it during the discussion. She’s like – oh am smarter than you folks and I hope this campaign fails…blah blah blah.
Her last comment was so typical – Am the best and you SUCK and bringing her reputation and stature. Oh am all that… Poor kid! Using her education background in a wrong way.
Did she even graduate from Wharton with an MBA?
This is a ridiculous comment from the gnomic Bengali pimp Nirad Chaudri:
“The ethical immaturity of Hinduism is apparent in another direction also: in its failure to develop a high sense of personal moral responsibility. If a course of conduct-for example, the taking of bribes or not giving value for money in the public services or serving an organization or person from purely mercenary motives, disregarding one’s moral convictions all the time- is sanctioned or condoned by habit or custom, no Hindu however highly cultured intellectualy, will search his conscience on his own initiative and from a sense of individual duty. The doctrine of Karma has certainly dulled the Hindu’s conscience by entrusting the ship of morality to a sort of gyro-pilot.”
Sure, so Jihadism, Crusaderism, genocidal cleansings, slavery, spiritual excluivism, eternal damnation of non-believers, etc. engenders ethical responsibility and maturity. No one else takes bribes? lol the extent some people will go to.
And to think, an Indian contestant on a flagging reality show whose goal is to be the meretricious and shady Donald Trump’s caddy would bring out such nonsense.
There is no lesson to be drawn here. None at all. Not about 1 gens, 2 gens, Hinduism, caste, dowry murder, infanticide, Islam, diva-ism, or whatever else. She did not perform particularly well, but I give her props for not enswathing herself in a chicken suit to comform to some late twentieth century American mercantilist value–team spirit, humility, money, rah rah….blah!
Sigh, someday we Bongs will learn that no matter how intellectual we might be, ad hominem attacks are so not cool.
I think Nirad Chaudhari is definitely right in some sense, in the huge majority of practice of Hinduism (I refer to the common-people variety), it emphasizes a social code, and comes with social responsibilities, but at the cost of individual duty and responsibility
No, where I think he’s wrong is to associate that with Hinduism in general, rather than with a specific method of practising Hinduism. There are many sects/scriptures/interpretations of Hinduism which DO stress on the personal responsiblity aspect. Nirad’s point is again, like using militancy as an argument against mainstream Islam.
However, as a FOB for 5 years, that’s what I love about American society and culture, though. The individualism. It provides an opportunity for personal growth and spiritual development which paradoxically, my experience growing up with Indian culture did not provide.
Well, this was completely off-topic, I guess.
I find Toral’s attempt to justify her “I’m above you all”-ish snobbery in terms of religion odd, misguided and misguiding. The notion, in Hinduism, of not doing unto others as you would not want them to do unto you is as old as the Mahabharata at least.
Much to say:
1) This whole thing about Indians being more arrogant than other races is absolutely ridiculous. Can you come up with any more evidence than anecdotal references to the times when someone made you feel inadequate or long lists of bogus “cultural factors”. Absolutely pathetic…
2) Yes, I have anecdotally seen many Indians (primarly IIT/Stephens/Ivy trained) come of as arrogant in the workplace, but that is often because they are more ambitious and driven (like many immigrants) than their longer-native counterparts, and shower disdain upon the comfortable and the mediocre. This is not a horrible thing.
3) That said, Toral is quite arrogant. Who wouldn’t be though when surrounded by the gaggle of cliquey, ineffectual ineptiudes who are her female cohorts on the show. But the arrogance that shows the most is not a result of her being Indian, its because she’s an investment banker, more specifically, a debt capital markets execution specialist. This is, perhaps more than any job around, one where no one cares whether people like you but rather, whether you can walk through fire to get deals done. I have no sense whether she’s good at her job or not, but she’s certainly not professionally trained to have people like her, least of all the incompetents who populate reality television. All this having been said, I would rather choke myself with a towel than have to spend an hour over lunch with her.
4) The point about wealthy FOBs anecdotally being more arrogant than second generation may or may not be correct. It can probably be explained by the fact that wealthy FOBs, like the upper crust everywhere, get what they want and it shows in their arrogance. Whereas the notably bourgeios second generation acts with the typical servility common to the bourgeois. the wealthier members of the second generation are just as accurate. I have also anecdotally noted that many many second generation desi women (though clearly not all) have the assertiveness of the average sloth bear, but that’s probably because so many have been brought up dually in an exceptionally sexist and unthinking American society and the stifling and conservative NRI diasporic communities.
5) Argus_NJ is a tool. That is all.
Very good points, Umair and Siddartha
Eddy, Perfect rebuttal !!! Great points
Thanks Siddharth, much appreciated.
Eddy: good post, agree completely that Nirad Chaudhuri is a turd, the man is a self-loather (and an everyone-else-loather) if there ever was one.
Technophobicgeek: if what you saw were true then India’s Muslims and Christians and atheists would be ethically more mature than India’s Hindus; personally I’m skeptical one way or another. But more importantly, I don’t have a clue what “ethical maturity” is!
Siddhartha, Umair, THANK YOU for bringing that up. I’m not fond of Toral but some of the comments were downright hateful. Scary. Agree that the hatred was “gendered,” too. Also agree that this is largely due in part to preconceived subconcious notions about appropriate roles in society for women and men.
She wouldn’t have gotten half this flak had she been male. It’s easy to slap the label of “bitch” on a rude woman, but we’re not nearly so vitriolic with a rude man. I got the sense folks were enjoying themselves tearing her apart.
No– in my experience, this is much more true of the people I know who are a) upper or middle class and b) were raised in countries with a low cost of labor, where having household staff is common. For me it’s absolutely one of the strangest adjustments to make when visiting India. (Conversely, in the U.S. mainstream, the oddest things to me are the low level of public emotionality, and attitudes toward family.)
I am curious, no one answered this one yet, but does Toral have a BBA or BA/BS from Wharton, or does she have the MBA?
IMHO if she just has a Bachelors in business I don’t know why she’s so kick ass, I am sure the MBA would have grilled her.
she doesn’t have an MBA just an undergrad degree…she’s not kick ass, she got kicked on her ass….
honestly, she is one of THE most nontalented, worthless people to breath our air… YUCK!
hehe.. and also, the title should read all hail USC TROJANS not ehem..oral toral… hehe… next for her, porno star.. i tell ya, nobody in their right mind would hire this egotistical bitch
chick pea – I don’t know Toral, and I agree she made some inappropriate comments on the show, but your comments about her have been quite harsh and at times, crude. Please consider that it is the job of reality tv to present contestants in an extreme manner and that more than one Apprentice contestant has spoken out of emotion after being fired. Toral may not be a saint, but to make such critical judgements of her based on incomplete information seems to be an even bigger offense than anything she may have said on tv. This girl is a real person who is probably suffering enough from her depiction on the show – why would you attack her personally when you do not know her at all?
she knew what she was saying.. and to belittle her contestants was really just no tact or class…she really needs an ego check, and kind of needs to get on ‘earth’ from the planet she’s riding on…her fellow contestants had honestly had every right to dislike her… why she couldn’t wear a costume? to keep her self respect? come on now… she is not the queen of sheeba for crying out loud.. have a little fun toral, or your ‘self respect’ that you so called have which in reality should be called egotistical arrogance will bring you flat on your face if it hasn’t already… i mean, who would want to hire her? she might be intelligent, but a lot of people are.. the difference is, is that she doesn’t have tact or humilty..and honestly, the later goes further..
Toral was a parody of a snob – she’s like a female version of Winthrop (Dan Akroyd) from “Trading Places.” The fact that she’s Desi or Indian had nothing to do with it.
Look at Anna – she seems like a nice normal Indie-rock Desi woman…a credit to her culture/race…
Toral is a C*NT in any culture. Her attitude on the show was disgraceful to all Indians. In the sense that we have limited media exposure as it is – she took this opportunity to improve/change the image of Indians as 7-11 clerks/nerds, and put our collective mouth against the sidewalk edge, and kicked us behind our head.
Let’s just hope she doesn’t do the talkshow circuit and fades into the ether.
Arguments about the arrogance of many South Asians in comparison with people from many other parts of the world aside, I think it may be wise to apply the brakes on all the Toral-bashing now. Given the relatively low profile of Indians in the mainstream media over in the US (apart from Monita & Co on CNN), I can understand why everyone would get so worked up over the negative representation by someone like Toral on such a well-known show such as The Apprentice. The view, of course, is that there are already too few positive depictions of Indian-Americans in the media and mainstream American culture, and on one of the few instances where someone has had the opportunity to really “represent”, they behave in a nasty way and, presumably, give “the rest of us a bad name”. Again, I can fully understand that, because until relatively recently (and certainly until the Goodness Gracious Me gang came along, along with the numerous South Asian news anchors on the terrestrial British TV channels), the same situation existed over here in the UK. So those of us on this side of the Atlantic have been through all this already.
However, beyond a certain point I think one should exercise some self-restraint and stop the piling on. Sure, it appears that Toral behaved unwisely on the show. But she didn’t kill anyone. There are much worse things that people do and there are therefore much worse reasons to condemn them. Admonishing someone for genuinely, deliberately misguided behaviour and certainly for displaying extreme arrogance is one thing, going beyond that and turning it into an exercise in viciousness and self-righteous sadism is quite another. You can also imagine the kind of hassle her family — especially her parents — will no doubt be getting from people. Don’t turn her into some kind of sacrificial goat, or — to use a literary analogy — the “pig” from Lord of the Flies.
If Toral has any maturity and sense of decency, she will hopefully learn from this experience (and from the various comments on SM and other desi blogs) and use it as a form of constructive criticism. “360-degree feedback” is not a new concept in the corporate world, especially Investment Banking. If this results in her gaining some humility, greater clarity of thinking, maturity and empathy, and ultimately does indeed allow her to gain a better awareness of the principles of teamwork, interpersonal skills, and “positive” leadship, then that’s a fantastic outcome. However, if she doesn’t get a grip on her ego and doesn’t learn any positive lessons at all, she will be the one — first and foremost — who will have to face the consequences in both her personal and professional lives, especially as she encounters problem after problem and goes from one social/professional blunder to another due to her ego-related clouded thinking and misjudgement.
So hopefully she will take all this on board, do some genuine critical self-analysis, and move forward positively.
The rest of us can just wish her all the very best for the future.
No graduate degree?!! She must be a loser, then! Wow! Just as elitist as our parents are now we? I don’t want to pick on the 2 comments above, because I don’t personally know you; I just want to use them as an example of attitudes toward education that I have encountered in the desi parent community, but I didn’t think the offspring felt the same way. I guess some things just rub off. I shudder to think what is thought of people with university education, or brace yourself… no high school diploma!! I’ve met people with absolutely no university education who are alot more articulate, well-spoken, well-read than me…. oh, and a select few are very successful, regardless. Now I’m not advocating “don’t go to school -it’s useless”, I’m just saying quit judging people on how many phd’s or md’s or whatever they have stringing behind their name. I thought it was obvious, but that does not a person make. And when you get out of school, after maybe a few doors opening, you still have to work hard and prove yerself – all of a sudden you may find yourself on the same level as someone who went to community college, or even under them, because they may have PRODUCED MORE RESULTS than you (especially when starting your own business). Don’t buy that desi parent line, “It’s all fun and easy after you are done your school. Then you can have fun” because it ain’t fun. You’ve gotta work it. Work is not fun – School is fun.
Oh, and for the record, MBA’s are GREAT degrees for resume’s, but you learn absolutely nothing new or surprising or exciting, especially if you already have a business degree (maybe for engineers or arts or science students,it’s different). BAH.
Ontop of that, even MBA’s should look to their (shudder) “subordinates” for “creative solutions” to problems within their organization: you’d be surprised how smart people without any education can be. Yeah, mind-blowing, I know.
An: I think you missed the previous commenters’ point, which was that she claimed to have an MBA.
[Significant Other] Mehta Cellar #1, Cage (a) Toral Mehta Residence New York, New York United States
Dearest Toral,
You don’t seem to be taking your loss very well. Pain, as many things in life, is relative. It will go away. A person can be conditioned to bear pain, which at times may seem superhuman.
Take myself for example: I have been locked in a cellar, living off scraps of food, and have been whippped raw by your very own hands (beautiful but deadly, LOL, the guy in cage (b) sure figured that one out. Thanks for disposing his body.)
BUT, do you see me complain? No. That is not my job. Initially I thought something was fishy when, one day, you were very kind and served me drinks. Next thing I know, I woke up here, in the cellar. I saw what you did the man locked in here with me; it was terrible. As time passed and sensitivity sailed away like Enya singing the Orinico flow, I learned to appreciate the devil in prada.
I hope this makes you feel better, because I may not have chance after our next go-around. I don’t feel pain, however, I feel that my life force is slowly slipping away.
Gratefully, [SO #1]
P.S. – I still hope to peek out a real window and pay my respects to mother earth before I depart. I hope you can entertain, this final, last request of your humble servant.
In re to this quote by FW, it’s really astute and just to add…many Indian parents would encourage their sons to meet women like Toral, as on paper she looks great. She also makes a great first impression. But with just a gentle scratch on the surface her whole facade falls apart. There’s something very disturbing about Toral in that she didn’t seem to have any sincere beliefs about anything. Everything seemed expendable and to be used for any purpose at anytime. It’s a disturbing trait in many young people – a lack of integrity.
Sure, a TV show with editing isn’t a good place to analyze – but one can develop an impression.
Ambition, wealth, and success are not an excuse to completly railroad over people. True leadership and personal relationships take the ability to empathize, and understand.
We saw nothing like that in Toral. Just a void. God have mercy on the man who falls into the trance of her gray color tinted contacts and her self-professed millions.
timepass, why would you choose to use this extremely offensive word in your “constructive criticism” of Toral? It’s vulgar, misogynistic and lays bare your social ignorance.
I agree, these comments need to be closed. This woman’s bad behavior is really bringing out the nasty side in everyone. (Right after I get my 2 cents in, heh.)
I’m on a roll: I had one “last thought” (a la Jerry Springer):
It’s fun to watch reality TV and rip a new one in Toral, there’s something to be said for EASY TARGETS, yet I haven’t heard ANY of this slander when it comes to several others in the media; say for instance, Deepak Kalpoe, (one of the Aruba suspects) who just a few weeks ago was heard on tape calling Natalee Holloway a slut, and basically calling her mother a hypocritical idiot. (Have you heard the tape? It is SCARY, ya’ll.) He admits that all 3 guys had sex with her, and now the Aruban police are trying to get their hands on that tape.
Rude: check Arrogant: oh yeah Self-aggrandizement: hell yeah (raped does not equal had sex with, buddy) Stupid: I don’t know his IQ but I’m gonna guess it’s a tad below “genius”.
So Toral, a REALITY TV (FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY) contestant was puffed up on herself and treated people around her like crap. Yeah, I just don’t think this is bad as RAPE and COERCION.
Why not direct your slander towards someone that might actually deserve it? It’s fun to rip on the gal that’s not here, but let’s move on.
Rupa – the definition of the C-word according to wikipedia is that it “implies that the named person is extremely nasty and unpleasant in a way that exceeds the vehemence of the word “bitch”.
With all due respect to the feminist point of view of this word, it’s a simple curse word – and nothing to be offended by. Are we to be offended if a man is called a “dick” or a “prick?”
Curse words have a place in our society. It’s something we can all understand depsite our class or education. It’s also a harmless way to release some stress.
These words only have as much power as we choose to give to them.
Anyways, there are far more serious apects of life to be offended by: war, greed, arrogance, and haughtiness – the latter two of which Toral had in spades and I found offensive enough to use the C-word.
Rupa: wow, hadn’t heard of this, that guy sounds pretty (“you’d be surprised at how easy it was”)…nasty
Fuck yeah, dude. No argument there.
Reclamation of cunt? Been there, done that, yo. We reclaim it as a homonym for the word “vagina.” Since this forum does not in fact house the Vagina Monologues, and I don’t think you were trying to say “Toral is a VAGINA in any culture,” I think it carries a lot of negative implications specific to the female gender, further down a string of comments that had already attacked her with her gender.
I hear you but I’m not buying it. It’s an easy word to use against a WOMAN who rubs you the wrong way. I respect your opinion but I don’t respect your use of that word.
That’s just it — it’s not just a “simple” curse word. If you scroll further down the Wiki article, you’ll see that some argue that “dick” and “prick” don’t carry the same intensity as the C-bomb. Dick can be a name. Prick is an actual word outside of its phallic connotations.
There’s nothing like that for cunt. Cunt is vagina. And some might use it against women as an insult. A very offensive insult.
Furthermore, I don’t rememnber at all, in any of these forums, anyone referring to a male as a “dick” or “prick.” (I could be wrong, though — this is just off the top of my head.) To do so would really communicate immaturity and I (and likely many others) wouldn’t be able to take such a commenter seriously after that.
Thanks for responding to my comment though. I’m just always curious as to why seemingly rational, thoughtful people sometimes say such things.
AAH well, then. Thanks and apologies. Didn’t intend to argue with the commenters themselves. But my general point holds, an MBA or anything else isn’t all that. And the fact that Toral claimed to have an MBA, as you claim she claims, still makes what I wrote valid: She thinks it makes her or she wouldn’t be making such false claims. People identify themselves by their degrees. Yuck.
I heart allusions to Quantum Physics.
Here’s my conclusion. You all love Toral. Or you’re all jealous of her. Look at the amount of discussion she’s generated. My gosh you’re all closet fans.
Before anyone claims I’m Toral’s agent, I think she’s an insufferable spoilt snob too, but I’m just amazed by how much you guys have been talking about her. I even mentioned it to the girlfriend last night, claiming
“you know that American Desi site I talk about? They’ve gone crazy about some silly brown girl from The Apprentice, called Toral.”
“Toral? Funny name.”
“Yeah”
And there the conversation ended. Face it, you all love her! Toral and SM, sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G!
im glad i dont have cable
You have a point about people absolutely obsessing over Toral. Some are so obsessively hating her, that they can’t even recognize what any of the other contestants did wrong. But, I think that some people DO notice these things and others will realize certain things as time goes on.
After this, maybe we shouldn’t give Toral such “air time”? However, she is the topic of the week, so to speak, since she’s the latest fired Apprentice candidate, so it’s in a way understandable that people are talking about her. But after next week I’m sure they will let it go.
The real problem lies in why Donald Trump casted Toral. It’s obvious from Toral’s pre-interview notes that she’d be played out this way (they were probably hoping for worse). The Apprentice stengthens ethnic stereotypes. (You can think of them on your own.)
And this only happens on the women’s side. There were many reports of Kevin acting extremely violent on the set (shoving a Colgate employee against a wall), but Trump went out of his way of airing this and avoiding the violent male black stereotype.
Looking at Trump’s record and his character, it’s not too far-fetched to see him intentionally creating and supporting these subtexts for the ethnic women.
Women need to stop being so catty and vindictive. Honestly, it’s a man’s world out there on Wall St. and the women do need to start working together. There are a lot of successful businesswomen who are sexist towards females, and that needs to stop.
Trump and NBC, with all their power and influence, could use this show for GOOD and for CHANGE. But he’s squandered that potential. And Carolyn is such a Trump-fearing peon that she doesn’t have the strength to more strongly advocate women’s role in business.
Hey at least Toral doesn’t have a victim mentality.
On the men’s side, why’d they cast Raj Bhakta as the (anti)Indian?
Hey, any guy who says “[such-and-such] is a tooty-frooty name” is no Anti-Indian. 🙂
Yes, I agree egoism is a big problem with SOME desi women (perhaps men too but it is less noticeable b/c of societal expectations of the genders).
I don’t think generation status (1st or 2nd) is the key here, many 1st gen women have just as much of a superiority complex as Toral. Just look at Aishwarya Rai, who does not dispute the flippantly obtained “title” of Most Beautiful Woman in the World, and behaves extremely condescendingly towards others she perceives as lower (i.e. everyone). I have seen this firsthand when my friend’s father was organizing a concert in Houston. In her case I think the ego is a way supplement her self-esteem; deep down I’m sure she realizes she is not a gifted actress nor a natural beauty (When I saw her in person she is definitely NOT what she appears to be in the glossies). All in all, the attitudes of the desi women in question are usually a crutch to prop themselves up from what they truly think they are not deep down.
I have a new theory to explain the arrogance factor which I will share with you later on.
I think we can not look at it in isolation from the assimilation factor and the private perceptions about it (which sometimes involuntarily given out in statements like the one I have quoted).
Of course, Brit Asians didn’t yammer on about Narinder Kaur and Saira Khan, right? 😉
Man, you guys went on and on about these shows we don’t even get here. I was getting Saira-centric hate mail.
Oh, wait, that’s just what you’re complaining about.
I think we are losing sight of the fact that most Americans have no idea that Toral is of Indian origin. So I am not sure if her conduct on the show will break or create any positive/negative stereotype about Indians.
I think it’s perfectly okay to discuss the various issues and dynamics here in general terms, but can I just ask everyone to be careful about turning Toral into some kind of “case study”, especially on a globally-accessible public discussion forum like SM.
As I said in my earlier post, I think the point has been made (very strongly) with regards to Toral not necessarily behaving in a particularly nice way towards some of her fellow candidates on The Apprentice, plus of course the fact that she may not be the best representative of the more positive qualities of Indian womanhood; however, beyond that, don’t turn this into some kind of public evisceration of the woman. Restrained and in-proportion admonishment is fine, but deliberate — and sustained — humiliation is going too far. It’s also a prime example of the nasty stereotypically-desi behaviour I mentioned earlier.
It is as difficult to break bad stereotypes as it is to selectively perpetuate positive ones.. You can set a very good example but there will always be one willing to ruin it. Besides, who decides what positive stereotype to propagate?
One thing that can be done (and I am sure this suggestion will be met with much sneer from Ms A N N A, Ms Deepa AKA DudeFromAustin et al and abuse from the likes of Get A Life and Hari), is to so completely mix up in the general population, that it becomes really hard to fix your ethnic origin. As of now, the various desi parties, mixers, sites such as CM and in general the clanish mentality of desis makes them stand apart and hence vulnerable to stereotype formation.
So, assimilation is the only answer, no (visible) Desi, no stereotype – see how easy it is?
I am not saying it is desirable or practical to do this.
And I thought that I would never end hearing about Parminder Nagra/Archie Panjabi. Sure, they’re pretty fit, but chaps, we must really be getting on now…eh?
She deserved to be fired in the earlier round. On basis of ‘integrity’ she was saved and I think if she was brought in last time itself in the board room, Trump would have found a way to fire her. She survived one episode just because she did not come to the board room.
And funny enough, I was telling my wife while watching the show, ‘i don’t know why she is just saying ‘no’ to the costume, and not giving any reason at all’.
And she kept throwing her ‘book knowledge’ at everyone. Umm, makes me think – did she really go to Wharton in the first place? Wharton may start an inquiry to check her out since their name is getting blotted.
btw, they way she pronounced ‘Finance’ (as fee-nance rather than fai-nance), makes me think she is new to the US or that she’s been educated in UK English.
I hope most Trojans realize that PAC-10 is a ridiculously easy division.
Just so that you guys have your facts right – Toral did her ‘undergrad’ from Wharton and not her MBA. She does not have a MBA!! That indeed would have been a disgrace to the Wharton B-school. With an attitude like that, there was no way in hell that she would get admitted to any decent B-school in the US.
Tell us somoething new. Her alleged non-MBA and expulsion from Columbia has been discussed ad nauseam on this board.
dear al mujahid:
trojans are #1… despite what you feel about the easy division… yeah, we killed OK last year.. and we’re doing well this year.. ND gave us a run for our money…and the damn 5 inch grass… i’m sick and tired of hearing it from people that we’re not in the SEC, blah blah blah… so frigging what…
we’re an incredible team, and with the most outstanding player out there… reggie bush.. watching him is watching an amazing feat.. he can out run, zig zag, perform somewhat acrobatics in the field which is spectacular to watch….hopefully another heisman to add to USC’s collection..
FIGHT ON USC.. and yes, dear, we’re still #1!
usc trojan: agree completely, she should have a little fun and have worn the costume.. yeah, people ganged up on her..because they couldn’t stand her..she has a vile persona… vile… despite her ivy league education.. she’s unrefined..