Ever since those floppy Beatles and hip-wiggling Stones stormed our Atlantic coast, American music mags lurve warbling on about the newest “Brit Invasion!” like retarded canaries in a perfectly oxygenated coal mine. Remember Blur? Pulp? The Verve? Ah, ’twas a Bittersweet Symphony indeed, Richard.
Coldplay is doing its best to launch a one-man (you know it’s true) full-frontal assault…but Mr. Martin sounds too intent on supporting Gwyneth and the Appletini to make anything really fresh these days.
So it’s with much interest that I’ve noticed that Brit-based Bhangra seems to be stealthily making unheralded inroads in the US. “Get ur Freak On” seemed to trigger something cuz soon after we had that Jay-Z rapping on Panjabi MC’s “Mundian to Bach Ke,” and no less than three (3) dancehall tracks with the Diwali Riddim. Sean Paul’s “Get Busy” being the best known.
Now, I’m pretty clueless about the Sardaar-scene, and know I’m a bit out of my depth here, so please refrain from tugging your beards and whipping your karas at me. please? I can’t do any worse than this Popmatters review that describes bhangra as:
dance music with the tabla beat at its base, sounding very much like drum’n’bass, sometimes with rapping but usually with Indian pop as its melodic focus.
Well, I hope.
At any rate, (and thanks Punjabi Boy) the previous post illustrates viral marketing at its finest:
The Xbox game, which is expected to hit the streets in November 2005, will feature two tracks by Achanak…taken from their forthcoming album, Bhangra-ology, which is due for release on 19th September 2005. Tigerstyle will have three tracks…lifted off their forthcoming, yet to be titled album, which is scheduled for a November 2005 release.[link]
May I draw your attention to the timing? Brilliant, I think. Besides, I hear there was a call for more turban-ed hotties…….Way to work it boys 😉
Man! this thread is really worth reading on bhangra.
I was so far thinking, this is something from Punjab.
Now I atleast know what it is from Punjab.
Good Folks….
Hi BB, more info on my website (aishanimusic.com). I’ve been producing for many years, was DJing quite a bit until recently. I’m based in Washington DC. My sound is still developing, but I’d describe it as electronic/organic instrumental with Indian elements, though not heavily ‘desi’.
I have some connections to the UK — I’m guessing you’re based in London? — have had my tracks played on Bobby & Nihal’s show, done some collabos with UK dub heavyweights Alpha & Omega. I’m looking forward to crossing the pond sometime to see how you guys party. 🙂 Feel free to hit me up at info at aishanimusic.com.
I shall hit you. Up.
timepass– i guess I am a musician and producer. that’d explain why the cicatrix bunker is chock full of cables + spare drumheads + microphones in various states of disrepair, and not just the Ms’z homemade weapons–the newest being a ballpoint pen strung up with industrial-strength rubberbands that shoots ripped shards of some of my MIA white-label dubplates. FWIW we keep her projects in the kitchen–We figure the CIA doesn’t have the time to look through all the tamarind paste.
Hipster desi couple? Lawd, y’all don’t even know the half of it.
(there’s a very good pun in there somewhere).
raju– heated subjects call for heated conversations. I’m interested in hearing your take on Bhangra’s connection to Sikhi, though i’m really, really bored by the relation that people expect the two to have. Show me something new and i’ll thank you for it.
and herein lies why i’m not crazy about the internet; i’ve got plenty of friends and fellow dholis who have very different views on bhangra, the state of bhangra, lyrics, etc than I do—but we can all hang. The dissasociated world of the internet is a bit nerdy for me. If you’re in NYC, let’s grab a beer and talk bhangra.
authenticity and tradition–esp. in the realm of folk music– are slippery slopes, and i’m alternately inspired and bored by discussing them.
PB–big up the one like Markie. He’s the brains and the soul in PHS…. i know, right? it’s the truth. And all those punjabi artists that seem to come out of the woodwork? Markie’s been laying some groundwork in India to find talent–tigerstyle + RDB as well (check http://www.bhangralyrics.com), but markies the one going. proper respect to him.
no I don’t think I’m mummifying anything
clearly I’m not on the same page as other people commenting, although some have said they understand
the constituency who feels similiar is not on sepiamutiny which is alright
delta blues is different than chicago blues. but you know what? chicago blues comes from a large part out of the Great Migration, the largest movement of people ever in the United States, when southern african americans moved North mainly to Chicago to take industrial jobs
You tell me, could the Blues have come about if not for the folk context of Reconstruction or the Great Migration. I highly doubt it.
I’m all for free boundaries of art and folk culture. But Folk culture is also tied to a particular group, often a disenfranchized group. And to take away that grounding is somehow wrong.
Would you appreciate an academic discourse on a folk culture, or people within the culture explaining why it is they as a collective developed the music?
Its the same, to me, as with any kind of situation where folk pracitioners are put out and academics take their place
there’s no doubt thats the culture milleu most of the people here come out of
Its a totally valid perspective and I do not think its mummfying anything
While I’m not here to excite you, the connection I see is many-faceted and much removed from the trite “bhangra has no relation to Sikhi”
there’s quite a few connections possible between the two.
like before, the primacy of feeling in Sikhi is an important ethos of communication. Don’t know if you get that.
You know why I find it sad people fight when Putt Jattan Da comes on? Because they are mostly kids who really want to channel their feelings in a positive way but its lost to them.
If they had a way to take what they feel when that song comes on and realize the reason they are moved; the sacrifices and noble struggle of people; yes many of them Jatts, have made to get them to the Diaspora, who have allowed their culture to exist in the face of persecutation, colonialization and injustice, they would create peace. But since they do not know about it, they get in a state of excitement and drink and start fights. Thats the shame.
Anyone can understand the passions aroused by bhangra, but there is a community who’s history and future is made up of it
ps I know what you mean, I’m alternatively insulted and interested in what you and other people write, and I think its the internet talking
anyway…
Whoa…there’s a lot of praise for PHS and RDB here. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. They are, and probably will always remain, NUMPTIES. ADF also got some biggin’ up but the numpties (especially Spex, an almighty numpty) are outnumbered by GEEZERS by a mile, so they’re (very) cool. RDB are 100% numpty and PHS are 66.6% numpty.
Damn, I need to get myself a three-letter name. Call me the RGF.
I find tribalism is a fumbling way to move toward Sikhi; it does not make sense on the face of it but intutively to me it does
Sikhi has pervaded our lives as Punjabis and to me punjabi tribalism is like the water thats five steps removed from the mountain spring. its still got enough of the good stuff to be worth having but its contaminated by unfortunate muck
A Brit Asian friend of mine (Gujarati) recently remarked, in reference to the overwhelming dominance of bhangra, “We’re all becoming Punjabi by default.”
Regarding ethnicity and musical authenticity and all that jazz, today someone on metafilter linked to these 12-yo girl twins who sing white power folk songs. (link, for the morbidly curious) Their mom dresses them up like little Gretels or something, traditional German wear. I was reading other sites where the mom posts, and she was saying something about how if her kids were brown or black, no one would blink at their lyrical content or reason for the band. Man, can’t we all just get along and dance to whatever moves our ass?
gosh do we have to explain everything from the bottom up?
a folk culture often comes out of disenfranziement. therefore placing a folk culture within a community is quite different and thats just obvious
if y’all don’t believe it, why not stop posting on a desi site and post with as equal interest on a gyspy website. go on. because its all the same thing right? lets just shake our asses because we’ve got the luxury to not to placed anywhere but travel from this and that culture. thats a luxury that not everyone has. someone has to stay behind and become tied to a culture and its future
especially if that community is disenfranchized
if y’all don’t believe it, why not stop posting on a desi site and post with as equal interest on a gyspy website.
M…..we’ll have to start one! Didn’t really find too many out there….The Romani’s’ll welcome you all. Once we find a name for our website, that is!!!
Raju – I find that tribalism takes you to a different spring altogether. In the US, this is an east coast / west coast distinction. On the west coast, Youth Sikh identity is much more tribal. I’ve heard Sikhs tell me that their primary association with Sikhism is pride, dancing, drinking, fighting, and (implicitly) chauvinism (although they frame it as machismo). The problem is that none of these are Sikh values. Coming from the East coast, I was quite puzzled by the West Coast scene, which I suspect is much more like the British scene.
Look – not all Jatts are Sikhs (or Punjabis), not all Sikhs are Jatts (or Pubjabis). Bhangra was only one aspect of Punjabi culture, and hardly a dominant one as you point out. Now, it’s largely a diasporic thing, danced to by kids who have no connections to farming or tractors. It’s a fluid, hybrid thing. The further it gets from what I know, the less I identify with it, but I’m OK with that.
I don’t have to be Luo to grok GidiGidiMajiMaji, I don’t have to be Jewish to grok Benny Goodman, and I don’t have to be Chinese in order to Tiger dance. The best gatka experts around are white, not Punjabi, but they’re more connected with the ethos than 99% of the punjabis out there.
I’m interested in the quality of the performance and the intensity of the emotional connection that the performer has with the music. I don’t find this comes along with ethnicity in any reliable way, though.
That captures it perfectly — I agree 100%. Well said.
I just want to say that I hate it when people talk as though Jat and Sikh are the same thing – I am a Sikh and I am not Jat and I hate this conflation of the two – if Jatts want to be Jatts go and be Jatts but dont drag the Sikh religion into it – I know the way some Jatt Sikhs try to make out that being Jatt and being Sikh is one and the same thing and I also know that some Jatt are little more than arrogant bigots in their attitude towards Sikhs of other castes – please – shout your Jatt Pride but leave my Sikh religion out of it – being Jatt and being Sikh is not the same thing – get some perspective!!
I’m not even going to bother. people have their own views and thats fine
whatev
dude, where in the thread did anyone say jat and sikh were the same? I completely understand your frustration – I’ve gotten into many arguments over the same thing. But you’re amongst educated people who know the difference, so I don’t think it’s worth getting so riled up.
Ennis,
I think of it like Crazy Horse; he was tribal but if someone were to see his way of life, I think they would eventually see the innate dignity of man in his life and work. he very well could have given up what might have been a losing battle. but because he did not, and stayed down with his desh, today he’s a living inspiration to Lakota and Native youth, and other youth. Today he stands for something much more than a tribal alliegience. he stands for the innate dignity of man
so thats why I think “tribalism” can lead toward Sikhi, because somewhere in the love of punjab, is the love of the dignity of man
Raju was conflating the two when he was going on about all the pride he felt whenever he heard the song putt jatt da and listens to bhangra – he said it was connecteed to Sikhi – No! That is connected to being a Jatt not a Sikh – dont mistake the two
If you want to be proud to be a Jatt by all means do so – but dont say that it has anything to do with the religion of Sikhism.
There are Muslim Jatts and Hindu Jatts – if you want to practice a religion called Jattism go ahead – but leave Sikhi out of that tribal caste obsessed worldview.
Raju – given that there are Jatts of all religions, why wouldn’t love of tribe lead to Hinduism, Islam, Christianity or any other religion?
Ennis,
Couple of reasons:
It can lead to notions of superiority and/or an “us and them” mentality, and:
In Sikhism, the entire human race is meant to be your “tribe”. Man-made divisions are not supposed to be glorified or, beyond a certain point, even recognised.
You’re not thinking outside the box though Jai; you’re taking what people assume to be true about “jattism” and “tribalism” and apply those definitions formulaically
taken from conventional wisdom its just obvious that “jattism” and “tribalism” are not compatible with sikhi
however thats only using the conventional wisdom; which is boring and only one possibility
some of this may be subject to change as I think about it more so do not go buck wild on me if you do not agree;
for one thing there’s differences between Jatt’s of different religions, especially post partition and the subsequent creating of Haryana. i wonder if jatts of different religions probably only vaguely feel any kind of relationship and then, its something they vaguely think they should feel but really don’t
that being said; solidarity across religious lines is an aspect of jatt ethnicity; if not the ethnicity itself would not be around anymore. thats a good lesson right there.
say what you will about all the caricaturing around jatts and all that, but if you talk about Lakota versus Navajo, everyone knows what you are talking about, they are two distinctly different sub-ethnicities in some ways. i’m pretty sure jatts are an ethnic subgroup with distinct traditions. i think caste and ethnicity are too often confused and they are not the same thing
on the issue of Sikhi i think Sikhi is much able to withstand different cultural practioners and still form a reasonable hold on things
nowhere did i conflate sikh and jatt as the same. i am not stupid
what i think is connected is the primacy of feeling
who knows it feels it
thats it. intellectual reasoning is not the mode by which Sikhi reveals itself. although the Sach may be rational/reasonable, the more pervading Truth is the Truth that rings out from your soul speaking to you that something is right
it is right to love all mankind and see the whole human race as one. that just gets you were you feel.
on a much smaller and more mundane level, bhangra is awesome because how it makes you feel. Just like Bob Marley is awesome because of how his music makes you feel. Have you ever heard the saying ; so and so is the truth?
Lauryn Hill is the truth in that one song “That Thing”. ok now take that feeling and make it everyday and make it about the entire creation and multiple it thousand-fold and you get to whats really real
all this is just my opinion and is subject to change
So footie fans, through their intense love for their teams, should soon stop beating each other up and instead learn to love all humans, regardless of race, religion, creed, national origin, or fan-status?
There are many things in life which make us feel swept away, the question is what do they sweep us towards? Goosestepping young men in Germany were part of a larger whole, but somehow they failed to move from their love of the Reich to their love of all human beings. Instead, their love of the Reich seemed to make them hate more.
Funny how jingoism often leads to violence against others …
pick an ideology and there’s a worst case scenario for most; human nature is not always a pretty thing. the example you gave has nothing to do with what we’re talking about
equating something people love with fascism might sound like a good rhetorical tool but it distorts the entire arguement. no debate can move anywhere after that card is okayed
what was the goal of the third reich? i never knew it was to love all humanity
what about the unifying feeling one gets from rooting for a team in the World Cup?
Were you inspired by the “Be the Reds” fans from South Korea
Funny how something you love can make you love more and not less
outtie…..
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